I think we should take the route of the thread that was linked. Make it optional. Have a check list in options that is called "Destructive Zombies" If you check it, Zombies can break through your stuff. If you don't like it, don't check it. What most people here want is for there a way to make you actually fear zombies. Just a little bit. Heck. If zombies could only break wood, I would build most of my structures out of wood to make it more difficult. I want the danger of being attacked by a mob at any time. Not just when I go out to find them. The only option of always being in danger of mobs is that you aren't allowed to build anything but torches. I Want To Build And Fight Mobs. Curently, there isn't a very good middle ground. It is either I build, or I fight mobs. I can't do both. I design an impenetrable house made of diamonds. With lookout towers and guard towers. Unfortunately I could have gotten the same level effect if I made a 4x3 box made of dirt. But really the only middle ground of building and killing mobs is building death machines. They are fun to mess with and wire but they are really annoying to reset. Also, there is no punishment if I set it incorrectly. Oops I forgot a NOT switch in my plans. O well I am in my impenetrable glass house surrounded by lava and 30 stories of sand over me.
We should at least make it an option. I would love to have some surprises. It would make Redstone much more useful. It would definitely make trip plates better. *What? They broke through the first layer of wall!?! Deploy the sand barrier*
You have to admit, once the grate/bars is implemented, with mobs that can destroy stuff, It would reward you for making extremely complex structures. It would make the game a bit more innovative. I would worry about my house's practicability and not just its anesthetics.
So, you should make it an option. It might actually make hard mode... well slightly more difficult. It would definently make me more creative. *WALL OF DOORS ACTIVATE!* *LAVA RUSHES IN AND KILLS GIANT ZOMBIE HOARD* (You could also have zombies with bronze picks on hard or something so they could at least damage some of the stronger materials. But you can make it so it has a very low durability.)
come on, I would love any opportunity to make new traps without it being my only defense because it does take a long time and lots of resources to reset. A trap without adequate walls is just boring.
*WALL OF DOORS ACTIVATE!* *LAVA RUSHES IN AND KILLS GIANT ZOMBIE HOARD*
Except that it isn't a hoard of zombies, it's usually 1 or 2 zombies with a couple creepers, some skeletons and a spider for good measure. It it were JUST zombies which spawn in an area, that would be a different story, but zombies and everything else just means that the structure you just made to keep out the other stuff is no longer doing its job and you might be safer outside.
It's just a bad mechanic which would ruin the game for many people if it was forced on them.
Because what's the alternative? The big scary monsters being absolutely powerless to hurt you if you take the time to build a dirt wall around yourself.
Notch said he'd rather make the game too hard than too easy. So far, he hasn't really come through in that regard.
Sometimes dirt and sand is about all you get when you start out and is the only thing in reasonable quantities that doesn't require tunneling in the dark.
I have yet to start a new world where there isn't less stone and wood than dirt and sand. Cut down a tree, make a pick, get some stone, make stone tools, build a stone house. Not that difficult to do before the first night-fall.
Quote from Vagrant0 »
You also don't seem to realize that monsters can detect you through walls and even as much as a dozen blocks away through solid stone. You also don't seem to realize that this would make many common structures that people use and are rather fond of being completely useless as soon as a zombie comes along to let in their friends. People don't generally build their structures with absolutely no windows or any light escaping because it makes those structures very hard to find in the fading light. People also like things like tree farms, critter pits, and farmland which usually benefits from being spaces that are well lit and open to the sky.
You don't seem to realize that the AI will probably be more fleshed out, and this is one of the suggestions as to how it should be done.
Quote from Vagrant0 »
Making zombies break blocks would not make the game too hard since people would just build floating forts that can only be entered through a hole in the bottom that is filled with a column of dirt that must be removed to leave or regain entry, but would block off all attackers and be safe from everything. What it would do rather would be to severely limit peoples abilities to create structures they want instead of structures which must be rebuilt every day or which are just impervious to whatever the latest bit is. Today it's zombies beating down your walls and doors, tomorrow it's flying dragons that spit lava tiles and explode on contact with any wall.
Eventually, floating blocks are supposed to be eliminated, making floating islands only possible with a rare block type. And hopefully by then, there will also be some kind of aerial monster, giving even those lucky enough to have the resources to build such a floating fortress something to be afraid of. If every monster or at least some monsters could break some or all blocks, your floating fortress could be a falling death trap if an aerial beast manages to destroy the single block keeping your island afloat.
Quote from Vagrant0 »
In the same token, you could just prevent players from building or creating anything, and call it "hard" and see just how long they last, but we kinda had that version already in early versions of survival mode. I'd rather see difficulty added through more meaningful and clustered, less random, placements of materials, expanded dungeons with traps, or other significant additions rather than something lazy and destructive like this which is just solved by changing basic building behavior and forces people to be less free to create neat stuff. Maybe something like this would work for a multi-player mode, but most people playing this game play it for its sandbox elements and would be very upset over a change like this. As mentioned, if you want excitement, go outside at night, or find a dungeon. Leave our beloved houses and forts alone.
If you don't want excitement, just play creative mode. There is absolutely no reason to try and treat SURVIVAL MODE as a free-form creative mode. It's supposed to be challenging while still allowing you to construct things based on your resources. It's not much of a survival game if survival is as easy as building a 3x3x3 box of dirt and camping it. I am pretty sure I did mention only wooden doors, dirt, sand and gravel would be destroyable by the zombies, yes? It's not like your huge stone castle would have much to worry about. Unless of course something bigger and stronger came along that could also tunnel through blocks. But you know what? That would be epic and fun.
I don't like this idea. Skeletons can already shoot arrows through doors, making standing near your door with a mob outside a bad idea. A player should be allowed to have security if they've gone to the trouble of building themselves a solid stronghold. And having to constantly replace glass/wood/other would just get old very fast. How would we be expected to have time building other structures and expanding if we need to keep repairing the damage that random zombies do to the walls? If you want excitement, leave your stronghold and go walk around outside at night.
You shouldn't have to be in danger if you've built a fort though. The whole point of it is that you're vulnerable when you haven't sufficiently defended yourself. And no, danger shouldn't come to you, especially if you've taken the time to prevent it.
Personally, I like the idea of mobs breaking through the weakest blocks. It would make it more chalenging and give a better use for stone/iron. However, I think they shouldn't be able to break through bricks if they are in a liquid. (So drowning traps or moats stay effective and aren't broken by stupid mobs). Of course, they probably couldn't anyways, as its hard enough for a player to do so.
One thing that is going to be implimented is mobs of certain types (IE Giant Zombie, Small Creeper, ect). This might effect mob's ability to do damage to blocks (Bigger = stronger? or maybe one that is specifically good at tearing down walls?). Possibly something to think about.
Also, I think that it shouldn't be implimented into easy mode, so you don't have to worry about it if you don't want to (Not everyone plays the same way).
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A player can have security by building themselves a decent stronghold. Just because the mobs can destroy blocks doesn't mean that they can just plough through your whole fort in 5 seconds. It would take them a reasonable amount of time. Fast enough to present a danger, but not so fast that you can't counter-attack.
And you mention the effort of repairing your stuff - I think you overestimate the scale of the damage.
Night time is limited, so the monsters wouldn't waste time destroying an unnecessary number of blocks when they have to worry about eating your delicious face before the sun comes up. They'd only destroy enough blocks to make an efficient path towards you.
You do realize that things spawn in caves and other dark places and if it's enclosed, they tend to stay there until killed or you move too far away. Meaning that all everything built in caves, eg. all those complicated mine tracks, switches, and other stuff are also susceptible to being ruined because some zombie below ground was trying to get to you above ground, or vise versa.
Quote from SpGrey »
And like I said before: Going outside at night is simply callous stupidity. The danger should come to you.
If it's danger you have to choose to put yourself in, it's not real danger is it?
No, it's called making the most of your time. Maybe you just sit down in your 3x3 hovel and wait out the night staring at the sky, but some of us spend the night tending to our tree farms, gardens, or doing other things in our own little walled off areas. Danger comes to you enough when you go exploring caves or working in mines, and having to kill off all the creepers and spiders which hang around in the morning so you can go back to work has its own hazards. Killing mobs also has specific benefits. While yes, standing out in the open or wandering around aimlessly at night is not a good idea, in more controlled settings, night hunting of mobs is actually kinda fun. Your problem is that you just wall yourself off and never go outside because of all the creepy crawlies.
I get it, people just like zombies and want to have some zombie fun... but all the more reason why it should be some special playstyle for multiplayer servers. Not only is it incentive to play on certain servers which do this kinda thing if such a feature isn't in single player, but it kinda allows you to ramp things up a bit, or allow multiple settings since you'll have more than 1 person trying to fight off the zombies and someone who can adjust the server according to whim.
I like this idea forward the thread to notch maybe?
Also to people who complain that they would tear down their houses? There are three problems with that theory.
One: A zombie would only tear down wood and below.(a house of dirt isn't very well built is it?)
Two: Zombies would only tear down 2 blocks that's not a big inconvenience.
Three: A house that was actually well built would not have any issues with this since stone is so easy to come by this would only threaten little shacks made of dirt/wood.
In my opinion this would give stone doors a real purpose as right now they are worthless. And it would encourage more well built homes along with making the night more difficult to survive.
I don't much like the "give mobs block destruction capabilities" model of increasing difficulty, since it lowers the all-important player motivation to create and build. I'm all for other ways of giving mobs other was of circumventing player defenses, though, like wall-climbing and flight.
Quite frankly, I think that in a perfectly designed fortress, players should be completely invulnerable. But I also think a perfectly designed fortress should be much more difficult to come by than just making a 3 meter wall with an outward-set door.
Increasing mob complexity boosts player motivation to set up more elaborate defenses, which aids the core focus of creativity the game has. Having mobs destroy defenses does the opposite.
Incidentally, I was not arguing that allowing monsters to destroy blocks would make the game less strategic, I was arguing that it would hurt the motivation for players to create things knowing mobs would simply chew through them.
Besides, allowing mobs to chew through walls wouldn't make us any less protected at all; I would simply make two layers of walls, with the outer one far enough out of "aggro range" that the mobs would never see me and chew through it. As long as there's torches between the two layers, no mobs will spawn close enough to -try- to destroy the wall. That is why I would prefer to give mobs more creative mobility rather than simply allowing them to break blocks.
With regards to your castle analogy, the epic Hollywood battles with catapults, siege engines, and battering rams was actually not very common at all. Most of the time, you defeated a castle by simply blockading it to prevent supplies from going in, and then waiting for the defenders to starve themselves to death.
Dang it, I had a very similar idea to this, so lemme just bump it.
My thought was zombies, as the weakest mob right now, should be given something. My thought was they would break down wooden doors and glass and knock down lamps and torches. A wall will stop them, but as a less elegant solution than a door what will you do? You could build metal doors, tho that takes metal and wiring. It encourages you to fortify your surroundings somewhat.
I'm ready for this. I made my walls 3 stones thick, with the middle carved out and filled with lava. I have windows in either side to illuminate the darkness, but if a zombie broke one, he'd be dead in a heartbeat.
My keep also has a 60x60 courtyard, which despite having no illumination in the middle, suffers no hostile spawns at night. It's really weird. I once had a single zombie wandering around, but I think it was because I left the door open. It's been about 1 week in game since I saw him. I constantly get other spawns outside the walls.
I agree with this, but I think zombies should be able to break anything, including cobblestone, mossy cobblestone, brick walls, iron doors, etc... but it would take a lot longer to them destroy it.
So zombies are denser than stone? I don't like the idea of mobs breaking down your things. So EVERY FREAKING NIGHT, we have to fix the walls because about 20 of them would be knocking down my stone wall unless I put lanterns everywhere around the continent. I don't like this suggestion.