As far as weapons go, I suggest revamping existing Vanilla weapons using mechanics already seen somewhere in the game.
I have a couple simple suggestions, please agree/disagree/comment on them seperately.
TL;DR
I. Weapons: use existing sword, axe, and hoe (scythe)
II. Throwables: throw slimeballs and fire charges
III. Materials: rarermaterials are better overall, but each material is best at one thing.
IV. Tiers: Wood Swords are bad against Leather or better armor, Stone Swords can penetrate Leather but is less effective vs Iron, etc.
Full explanation below:
I. WEAPONS:
Sword: The weapon that can block. High damage, Average knockback, just like a Sword.
RC: Quick Slash
LC: Block (time blocks to stun melee attackers, hold to reduce damage)
Axe: The weapon with charged attacks and high knockback, same role as a Mace.
RC: Medium Slash
LC: Charged Slash
*Lower DPS than a Sword in exchange for knockback and highest on hit damage.
**Depending on how Armor functions, Axe may have better DPS than Sword vs very strong armor.
Hoe: The weapon that pulls mobs in like a Scythe.
RC: Instant Slash (no knockback)
LC: Quick Reap (pulls mobs in/reversed knockback)
*Lowest overall damage.
**intended for chasing down cattle. Can be used to ensure drops go straight to inventory and not off cliffs.
***Picks and Shovels are still nearly useless for combat. All tools still work as tools using RC.
Bow: The ranged weapon that must be drawn back, like a real Bow.
RC: Charged Shot
LC: Zoom In, Extra Charged Shot (allows Charged Shot to charge further, increases range and damage but reduces durability)
*Decrease the knockback on bows to make running critical for fighting at range.
**Charging a bow for less than a second wouldn't fire any arrows at all.
***Make how charged the bow is more distinct in the animation
II. THROWABLES:
Fire Charge
RC: Throw (similar behavior to Vanilla Snowballs, but damage flamable mobs in additon to chance to set on fire)
LC: Place on ground (makes Fire Charge target a block like Flint and Steel instead of as a throwable)
Other Throwables
Snowballs: Unchanged, low knockback but high fire rate and damages Blazes.
Slimeballs: Now throwable, breifly slows mobs.
Chicken Eggs: Spammable knockback, if a chick spawns on hitting a mob, it will target chick instead of player (including
creepers!)
III. MATERIALS:
Although rarer materials have beeter overall stats, each material has one stat it is the best at:
Wood: Highest attack speed.
Stone: Highest Knockback.
Iron: Highest (on hit) Damage.
Gold: Highest Enchantability.
Diamond: Highest Durability.
*Diamond still has much higher overall DPS than Iron, Wood is still mostly worthless, and Gold is much more appealing when fully enchanted.
IV. TIERS:
The material of a weapon gests a bonus or penalty if it is different from the material of the armor being damaged. This
comes before vanilla armor calculations. Damage Bonus and Penalty can be flat damage, percentage of damage, durability
or some other mechanic.
Wood: No Bonus, penalty vs Leather and above.
Stone: Bonus vs No Armor, penalty vs Iron and above.
Iron: Bonus vs Leather and below, penalty vs Gold and above.
Gold: Bonus vs Iron and below, penalty vs Diamond.
Diamond: Bonus vs Gold and below, no penalties.
*This makes armored mobs much scarier.
**Partial armor sets would have partial bonuses/penalties.
What you were trying to do by introducing spears (in my opinion, at least) was throw a wrench in the current system and heat things up, something the current engine desperately needs. Spears, however, did not do this. Their two main functions really wouldn't change the way combat looks.
Yes, and so I removed the spears, so whats your problem with the system now?
Good show! This would drastically change the way combat looks, and while I'm not sure everyone would enjoy this new sakura samurai-esque style of combat, I sure as cuss would.
You complain that changing the system too much, and now you say that I'm not changing it enough?
TBH I would be happy with any new combat system, surely they are all better than the current system. Personally, I quite like the idea but I can understand if there are a large number of people who do not like such massive changes.
Vanilla definitely needs improving. I love the idea of being able to throw slimeballs and firecharges, it was a passing thought of mine some time ago but never really got around to suggesting it. As for the rest of the suggestion, I think generally it is ok. I'm not a fan of making axes/hoes weapons as they are tools, but it could work I guess. I don't like the last part very much, it seems to add complexity where it is not really needed (what would it add to the game?).
Thankyou everyone for your input.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of sheep."
- Lord Tywin Lannister
I would like to start off by criticizing those that decline this idea with the argument that Minecraft is a game focused on PvE and singleplayer. You can't get much more wrong than that. Minecraft is a game for everything, hence the name, (Sandbox?) and thus I think it is unfair of people focused on building to deny players that prefer PvP an actually interesting PvP-engine. Instead of always favoring one aspect, more blocks and aesthetics, how about some more intricate game-mechanics? PvP haven't been expanded upon since beta, that is if you don't count the nerfing of blocking, which was the epitome of nerf even at implementation-day and haven't really served a purpose since while practically ALL other aspects of the game has been improved since with the exception of skin-management.
And as much as I would love to see things like throwable slimeballs and firecharges, not to mention a more varied arsenal, we must prioritize the basics, as there currently are none.
I think that out of all the PvP-enhancements we have seen around this sub-forum recently, this one is the cleanest as well as the clearest way to improve combat in Minecraft, be it PvE or PvP. I sincerely hope that this will be acknowledged by Mojang and incorporated into the game, as it practially screams for change at this point. I support this wholeheartedly.
i support daggers, and dual weilding them, but how do you not block with two? two daggers blocking would be at least, if not more then, 100% better then one.
i support daggers, and dual weilding them, but how do you not block with two? two daggers blocking would be at least, if not more then, 100% better then one.
Because dual-wielded daggers already have the ability to deal 200% damage instantly unlike the rest of the weapons which must wait roughly three quarters of a second just to deal 75%. Adding the ability to block 100% of all damage on top of that would make daggers OP against everything except for spears since they're the counters of daggers (and even then a spearman caught unaware will be slaughtered).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Did something happen to you in your childhood to give you this unreasonable fear of rutabaga?
Because dual-wielded daggers already have the ability to deal 200% damage instantly unlike the rest of the weapons which must wait roughly three quarters of a second just to deal 75%. Adding the ability to block 100% of all damage on top of that would make daggers OP against everything except for spears since they're the counters of daggers (and even then a spearman caught unaware will be slaughtered).
but any dagger wielder would have to get close, so if they are seen, they most likely cant get a hit in.
I have wanted better a better PvP system almost since I started playing Minecraft, I do support a cooldown on attacks, but 0.5 seconds is way too much, 0.2 is sufficient in my opinion. I think well timed blocks should reduce damage more than just holding as well. Perhaps incorporate crouching into a new crit?
I can see this being very annoying. A lot of people including myself enjoy the PvP in this game for the simple style.
Also, if you think PvP is just a "Better items wins" or "Clickfest (Kinda true, but no" or "First hit wins", you really haven't PvPed much. You're putting it out there as if there is no skill to it.
I would only like better sword animations. Sorry, no support. But the Fire Charges thing is a good idea, since I can get on a ballista and snipe everyone with fireballs.
Minecraft's combat system is simple, because there is no need for a combat system. Minecraft is mainly about singleplayer survival. Since most mobs don't have combat strategies, the player's system doesn't have to be enhanced. If you talk about multiplayer PvP, you can always enhance that using plugins. No need to change the system, so a small part of the community (not everyone is an active PvP-Minecraftian) can enjoy what already be changed. No support.
but any dagger wielder would have to get close, so if they are seen, they most likely cant get a hit in.
But if they aren't seen, they essentially deal 600% the damage of the dagger (and some of this pierces 75% of the target's armor) and reduce charge time by 600ms (meaning they can instantly use their first attack for 150% damage and are within short range of their 200% damage attack). A dual-wielding dagger user is intended to assassinate a single target and will not fare well in combat with multiple enemies or if spotted. A single-wielded dagger (or, heck, a dagger-and-sword or dagger-and-axe user) can do the same thing less effectively, but can hold their own in one-on-one combat and slowly rack up a combo. A single-wielding dagger user is intended to spend as little time as possible in the enemy's range thanks to his high attacking speeds and high speed.
Also, if you think PvP is just a "Better items wins" or "Clickfest (Kinda true, but no" or "First hit wins", you really haven't PvPed much. You're putting it out there as if there is no skill to it.
There really isn't any skill, though. Yeah, sure, there's aiming a bow and dodging arrows, but that's about as basic as skill gets in a game.
The system doesn't have to be overly complex to require strategy. Some games (e.g. Binding of Isaac) have combat systems as simple as Minecraft's yet they execute PvE far, far better.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Did something happen to you in your childhood to give you this unreasonable fear of rutabaga?
Minecraft's combat system is simple, because there is no need for a combat system. Minecraft is mainly about singleplayer survival. Since most mobs don't have combat strategies, the player's system doesn't have to be enhanced. If you talk about multiplayer PvP, you can always enhance that using plugins. No need to change the system, so a small part of the community (not everyone is an active PvP-Minecraftian) can enjoy what already be changed. No support.
I would like to start off by criticizing those that decline this idea with the argument that Minecraft is a game focused on PvE and singleplayer. You can't get much more wrong than that. Minecraft is a game for everything, hence the name, (Sandbox?) and thus I think it is unfair of people focused on building to deny players that prefer PvP an actually interesting PvP-engine. Instead of always favoring one aspect, more blocks and aesthetics, how about some more intricate game-mechanics? PvP haven't been expanded upon since beta, that is if you don't count the nerfing of blocking, which was the epitome of nerf even at implementation-day and haven't really served a purpose since while practically ALL other aspects of the game has been improved since with the exception of skin-management.
And as much as I would love to see things like throwable slimeballs and firecharges, not to mention a more varied arsenal, we must prioritize the basics, as there currently are none.
I think that out of all the PvP-enhancements we have seen around this sub-forum recently, this one is the cleanest as well as the clearest way to improve combat in Minecraft, be it PvE or PvP. I sincerely hope that this will be acknowledged by Mojang and incorporated into the game, as it practially screams for change at this point. I support this wholeheartedly.
<3 I think you summed it up quite nicely, really. Thanks.
I have wanted better a better PvP system almost since I started playing Minecraft, I do support a cooldown on attacks, but 0.5 seconds is way too much, 0.2 is sufficient in my opinion. I think well timed blocks should reduce damage more than just holding as well. Perhaps incorporate crouching into a new crit?
I can see this being very annoying. A lot of people including myself enjoy the PvP in this game for the simple style.
Also, if you think PvP is just a "Better items wins" or "Clickfest (Kinda true, but no" or "First hit wins", you really haven't PvPed much. You're putting it out there as if there is no skill to it.
Haha, the only servers I play on have PvP in them, and I've been playing the game since Alpha. That's a fair amount of PvP'ing, so don't make uninformed statements.
A few other things to consider:
1. Why is it annoying?
2. What is so complex about the new system that makes is not so simple?
3. What kind of skill is involved with PvP? Is it who can click the fastest? Who gets the best enchantments first?
4. In 90% of cases, it is who has the better items or gets the first his that wins, unless the opponent is a complete klutz or new to the game.
I would only like better sword animations. Sorry, no support. But the Fire Charges thing is a good idea, since I can get on a ballista and snipe everyone with fireballs.
Yea, I like the fire charges too :). Can you elaborate on what you dislike about the new idea?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of sheep."
- Lord Tywin Lannister
I think better hitboxes are required. The current system is fine mainly; we do not need ridiculous slashing animations. Hitting certain areas should give more damage and the distance you are from the area you hit should also be taken into account.
I think better hitboxes are required. The current system is fine mainly; we do not need ridiculous slashing animations. Hitting certain areas should give more damage and the distance you are from the area you hit should also be taken into account.
No Support.
I don't believe that more hitboxes would improve the combat system in any way. Better hit detection? Yes. But clicking at your opponents head to do more damage? No.
animations would actually be nice, just to improve the looks of the game more, hitboxes like that would lag the game more as it would need to track all hitboxes at once, only very large enemies like the enderdragon or wither (not ghasts though, they can stay as ghosts or flying gas) should have hitboxes, i still think charging swords like you would a bow is the way to go.
Charging swords is what I suggested for the critical hit mechanic, but since you seem very dead set on it I will upgrade it a bit so it has a bit more progression: normal->25%->50% more damage.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of sheep."
- Lord Tywin Lannister
hitboxes like that would lag the game more as it would need to track all hitboxes at once
No, the problem is that the engine is designed very poorly, especially the way it does ray tracing and box collision. Other games which are much older pull this off effortlessly. MC already pools AABBs for nearby blocks anyways, in a very pessimal way, so this wouldn't make much difference.
I would love a system like Assassin's Creed where hitting and blocking is visible from animations, and make a good 3rd person camera to go along with it.
Space Marine also has glorious melee combat, eventhough its simple it feels amazing just from the good animation.
Let it be known my vote has changed from "Yes with some changes" to a most emphatic "Yes". Your feedback is below
as I still have a few thoughts on the subject.
Attack animations needs to be better, simple. Each mob needs to have an animation where it clearly shows it is
about to attack you and thus gives you time to react. The player also needs a better attack animation. Currently, it
looks like Steve is bashing things with the hilt of the sword/tip of the blade instead of the full blade, which is
ridiculous. I suggest that he adopts a simple top-right-slash-down-to-bottom-left attack for each click. This appears in
first person as well as third person. When the slash passes the crosshair, that is when the attack falls (Probably after
about 0.2s). Blocking would also receive a more detailed and better looking animation, instead of the sword simply
appearing at a different angle.
Yes. This will be a big change for Zombies and Spiders, but it needs to happen. I hate how spiders counterattack a pack of
wolves too well because their hitbox damages mobs.
Unarmed zombies should have slow attacks and attack animations so players have good mobs to practice the new blocking
mechanic against.
Each click will make Steve perform a slash, as described above. The slash takes about 0.4 seconds to complete fully, but there will be a ‘cooldown’ time of about 0.3 seconds before you may attack again. This basically eliminates the problem of autoclick hacks in PvP battles, as clicking while the slash is incomplete will result in no extra attacks. Already, this adds a little more complexity to the combat aspect of the game and highlights the importance of timing your attacks, but not to the extreme with games such as skyrim. This now means a maximum of 1.43 attacks can be completed per second, as oppose to the current 10 or so plus per second. I also propose a change to critical hits. The falling crit still exists, but now is only activated after you fall at least 3 blocks. The new way to critical hit from the ground is to ‘charge’ your shot like you would with a bow. It would take 3 seconds to fully charge and deal 50% more damage, as well as dealing slightly more knockback. Releasing the attack before one second would do the same damage as a regular swing, and releasing it between 1 and 3 seconds will do 25% more damage. This attack would reduce your hunger and saturation points, and there would be a slightly longer ‘cooldown’ time before you may attack again (0.4s). The current sprint-attack system would remain as it is, as would bow and arrow combat.
I’m not going to propose anything major or complex here. Blocking would for the most part stay the same, but if
you manage to time your block between 0.15 and 0.25 seconds after your opponent swings, it will nullify damage entirely,
and allow you to get an attack of your own in. Not hugely game-changing, but a nifty mechanic.
My only strong disagreement. On a perfect block, I think more blocked damage and a delay on the next attack would be more
interesting and less OP than nullifying all damage on the blocked attack. Remember, we don't want anything on PVP that
would let one player kill another player in a fair fight without taking any damage at all in the process.
Against certain mobs like Spiders and Zombies, a weak knockback on a perfect block would be helpful as well as making
the fight more visually dramatic since it is hard for a third party to tell a block from a perfectly timed one.
Finally, to make it perfectly clear which mobs/players were affected by the block, blocked mobs would flash blue (as opposed
red when they get damaged) or emit a blue particle effect from their weapon.
Fire Charges
Range: Same as snowballs
Impact: Half-Heart Damage, standard knockback
Special: 50% chance to set player on fire for 3-8 seconds
Slimeballs
Range: Same as snowballs
Impact: Knockback
Special: Inflicts slowness effect for 3-8 seconds
Needs a little more in this section. Snowballs (and similar items) are super low tech, so they don't deserve a charge up throw. They do need a small cooldown around .5 seconds though, with a delay under .1 second.
Thrown Fire Charges should be able to light both mobs and blocks, but need delay animation of .5 seconds to give them a lower fire rate than other balls and give a pursuer a chance to dodge.
Slimeballs don't need knockback, the slowness effect should be enough, and Snowballs should have more knockback than fire charges.
Let it be known my vote has changed from "Yes with some changes" to a most emphatic "Yes". Your feedback is below
as I still have a few thoughts on the subject.
Yes. This will be a big change for Zombies and Spiders, but it needs to happen. I hate how spiders counterattack a pack of
wolves too well because their hitbox damages mobs.
Unarmed zombies should have slow attacks and attack animations so players have good mobs to practice the new blocking
mechanic against.
Perfect.
My only strong disagreement. On a perfect block, I think more blocked damage and a delay on the next attack would be more
interesting and less OP than nullifying all damage on the blocked attack. Remember, we don't want anything on PVP that
would let one player kill another player in a fair fight without taking any damage at all in the process.
Against certain mobs like Spiders and Zombies, a weak knockback on a perfect block would be helpful as well as making
the fight more visually dramatic since it is hard for a third party to tell a block from a perfectly timed one.
Finally, to make it perfectly clear which mobs/players were affected by the block, blocked mobs would flash blue (as opposed
red when they get damaged) or emit a blue particle effect from their weapon.
Needs a little more in this section. Snowballs (and similar items) are super low tech, so they don't deserve a charge up throw. They do need a small cooldown around .5 seconds though, with a delay under .1 second.
Thrown Fire Charges should be able to light both mobs and blocks, but need delay animation of .5 seconds to give them a lower fire rate than other balls and give a pursuer a chance to dodge.
Slimeballs don't need knockback, the slowness effect should be enough, and Snowballs should have more knockback than fire charges.
Thanks a bunch man. Feedback like this makes my job so much easier.
People do seem to be indifferent about the blocking, so I will update it to block 80% damage instead of 100%. I shall also add your suggestions for mobs to flash 'blue' when a perfect block is achieved and small knockback applied, to both players. But I do think that in a fair fight a very skilled player should be able to emerge victorious with little damage inflicted upon himself.
Now, for the slimeballs and fire charges. I do think that a 'cooldown' is necessary after you throw them (0.3 seconds), along with a new animation for throwing itself to prevent spamming. But the delay when you right click should either be non-existant or very small (Definitely under 0.1 seconds as you stated, but the same for fire charges as well), because I can see it as being very annoying during a fight. The reason being because it is much more difficult to anticipate where the projectile is going to be in relation to your opponent after that delay, especially during PvP. Additionally, I don't really think the fire charges need such a large delay of 0.5s because the fact that they are rather expensive to craft balances it out a bit. However, I will change it to that both slimeballs and fire charges are only stackable to 16 like snowballs. This may further help with balancing. Lastly, I will reduce the knockback on impact with slimeballs, but I won't get rid of it entirely unless it is a strong opinion in the community.
It's been awhile since I've seen something I disagreed with this much.
No, the problem is that the engine is designed very poorly, especially the way it does ray tracing and box collision. Other games which are much older pull this off effortlessly. MC already pools AABBs for nearby blocks anyways, in a very pessimal way, so this wouldn't make much difference.
I would love a system like Assassin's Creed where hitting and blocking is visible from animations, and make a good 3rd person camera to go along with it.
Space Marine also has glorious melee combat, eventhough its simple it feels amazing just from the good animation.
I like the idea about fire charges/slimeballs.
However, if they act just like snowballs you could spam them and be pretty much sure to at least hit once.
I think they need a charge just like bows. the longer you hold down the mouse button the further you trow.
But alongside that, I support!
Yep, thanks for the feedback. I will tweak the throw times a bit.
i like this a lot more now, i support, though mojang could easily just make charging the sword a mechanic in the same way one does with a bow, they have all the code in place really, this would be cool though, and since they would need a sword charging and sword swinging animations, maybe they could have a couple of alternate animations for swinging a sword?.
like, swinging up from the bottom right to the top left, or bottom left to top right, top left to bottom right, and both ways horizontally.
and it needs a bit more balancing, it does not much to fix the balance problems with tiers, so i suggest that higher tiers like diamond or iron will take a bit longer both to swing and charge, just a bit, and gold swords would obviously be faster than wooden ones (something useful for them), wearing higher tier armor will extend this time further.
I like this idea about the tiers and their respective weight, however I won't add it to the OP. But I think something like this would be good (In terms of light>heavy:
Gold>Leather/Wood>Stone>Diamond>Iron
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of sheep."
- Lord Tywin Lannister
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I have a couple simple suggestions, please agree/disagree/comment on them seperately.
TL;DR
I. Weapons: use existing sword, axe, and hoe (scythe)
II. Throwables: throw slimeballs and fire charges
III. Materials: rarermaterials are better overall, but each material is best at one thing.
IV. Tiers: Wood Swords are bad against Leather or better armor, Stone Swords can penetrate Leather but is less effective vs Iron, etc.
Full explanation below:
I. WEAPONS:
Sword: The weapon that can block. High damage, Average knockback, just like a Sword.
RC: Quick Slash
LC: Block (time blocks to stun melee attackers, hold to reduce damage)
Axe: The weapon with charged attacks and high knockback, same role as a Mace.
RC: Medium Slash
LC: Charged Slash
*Lower DPS than a Sword in exchange for knockback and highest on hit damage.
**Depending on how Armor functions, Axe may have better DPS than Sword vs very strong armor.
Hoe: The weapon that pulls mobs in like a Scythe.
RC: Instant Slash (no knockback)
LC: Quick Reap (pulls mobs in/reversed knockback)
*Lowest overall damage.
**intended for chasing down cattle. Can be used to ensure drops go straight to inventory and not off cliffs.
***Picks and Shovels are still nearly useless for combat. All tools still work as tools using RC.
Bow: The ranged weapon that must be drawn back, like a real Bow.
RC: Charged Shot
LC: Zoom In, Extra Charged Shot (allows Charged Shot to charge further, increases range and damage but reduces durability)
*Decrease the knockback on bows to make running critical for fighting at range.
**Charging a bow for less than a second wouldn't fire any arrows at all.
***Make how charged the bow is more distinct in the animation
II. THROWABLES:
Fire Charge
RC: Throw (similar behavior to Vanilla Snowballs, but damage flamable mobs in additon to chance to set on fire)
LC: Place on ground (makes Fire Charge target a block like Flint and Steel instead of as a throwable)
Other Throwables
Snowballs: Unchanged, low knockback but high fire rate and damages Blazes.
Slimeballs: Now throwable, breifly slows mobs.
Chicken Eggs: Spammable knockback, if a chick spawns on hitting a mob, it will target chick instead of player (including
creepers!)
III. MATERIALS:
Although rarer materials have beeter overall stats, each material has one stat it is the best at:
Wood: Highest attack speed.
Stone: Highest Knockback.
Iron: Highest (on hit) Damage.
Gold: Highest Enchantability.
Diamond: Highest Durability.
*Diamond still has much higher overall DPS than Iron, Wood is still mostly worthless, and Gold is much more appealing when fully enchanted.
IV. TIERS:
The material of a weapon gests a bonus or penalty if it is different from the material of the armor being damaged. This
comes before vanilla armor calculations. Damage Bonus and Penalty can be flat damage, percentage of damage, durability
or some other mechanic.
Wood: No Bonus, penalty vs Leather and above.
Stone: Bonus vs No Armor, penalty vs Iron and above.
Iron: Bonus vs Leather and below, penalty vs Gold and above.
Gold: Bonus vs Iron and below, penalty vs Diamond.
Diamond: Bonus vs Gold and below, no penalties.
*This makes armored mobs much scarier.
**Partial armor sets would have partial bonuses/penalties.
Yes, and so I removed the spears, so whats your problem with the system now?
You complain that changing the system too much, and now you say that I'm not changing it enough?
Second time now. I removed the spears.
Nah, seems a little out of place in Minecraft (just my opinion). Through I would like a way to throw/shoot items such as slimeballs and fire charges.
TBH I would be happy with any new combat system, surely they are all better than the current system. Personally, I quite like the idea but I can understand if there are a large number of people who do not like such massive changes.
Such as...? But thanks for the support
Vanilla definitely needs improving. I love the idea of being able to throw slimeballs and firecharges, it was a passing thought of mine some time ago but never really got around to suggesting it. As for the rest of the suggestion, I think generally it is ok. I'm not a fan of making axes/hoes weapons as they are tools, but it could work I guess. I don't like the last part very much, it seems to add complexity where it is not really needed (what would it add to the game?).
Thankyou everyone for your input.
- Lord Tywin Lannister
And as much as I would love to see things like throwable slimeballs and firecharges, not to mention a more varied arsenal, we must prioritize the basics, as there currently are none.
I think that out of all the PvP-enhancements we have seen around this sub-forum recently, this one is the cleanest as well as the clearest way to improve combat in Minecraft, be it PvE or PvP. I sincerely hope that this will be acknowledged by Mojang and incorporated into the game, as it practially screams for change at this point. I support this wholeheartedly.
that doesn't make much sense...
i support daggers, and dual weilding them, but how do you not block with two? two daggers blocking would be at least, if not more then, 100% better then one.
Because dual-wielded daggers already have the ability to deal 200% damage instantly unlike the rest of the weapons which must wait roughly three quarters of a second just to deal 75%. Adding the ability to block 100% of all damage on top of that would make daggers OP against everything except for spears since they're the counters of daggers (and even then a spearman caught unaware will be slaughtered).
but any dagger wielder would have to get close, so if they are seen, they most likely cant get a hit in.
I can see this being very annoying. A lot of people including myself enjoy the PvP in this game for the simple style.
Also, if you think PvP is just a "Better items wins" or "Clickfest (Kinda true, but no" or "First hit wins", you really haven't PvPed much. You're putting it out there as if there is no skill to it.
That's exactly what I was going to state.
But if they aren't seen, they essentially deal 600% the damage of the dagger (and some of this pierces 75% of the target's armor) and reduce charge time by 600ms (meaning they can instantly use their first attack for 150% damage and are within short range of their 200% damage attack). A dual-wielding dagger user is intended to assassinate a single target and will not fare well in combat with multiple enemies or if spotted. A single-wielded dagger (or, heck, a dagger-and-sword or dagger-and-axe user) can do the same thing less effectively, but can hold their own in one-on-one combat and slowly rack up a combo. A single-wielding dagger user is intended to spend as little time as possible in the enemy's range thanks to his high attacking speeds and high speed.
There really isn't any skill, though. Yeah, sure, there's aiming a bow and dodging arrows, but that's about as basic as skill gets in a game.
The system doesn't have to be overly complex to require strategy. Some games (e.g. Binding of Isaac) have combat systems as simple as Minecraft's yet they execute PvE far, far better.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand pasta.
<3 I think you summed it up quite nicely, really. Thanks.
Alright, I shall tone down the speeds a little.
Haha, the only servers I play on have PvP in them, and I've been playing the game since Alpha. That's a fair amount of PvP'ing, so don't make uninformed statements.
A few other things to consider:
1. Why is it annoying?
2. What is so complex about the new system that makes is not so simple?
3. What kind of skill is involved with PvP? Is it who can click the fastest? Who gets the best enchantments first?
4. In 90% of cases, it is who has the better items or gets the first his that wins, unless the opponent is a complete klutz or new to the game.
Yea, I like the fire charges too :). Can you elaborate on what you dislike about the new idea?
- Lord Tywin Lannister
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumNo Support.
I don't believe that more hitboxes would improve the combat system in any way. Better hit detection? Yes. But clicking at your opponents head to do more damage? No.
Charging swords is what I suggested for the critical hit mechanic, but since you seem very dead set on it I will upgrade it a bit so it has a bit more progression: normal->25%->50% more damage.
- Lord Tywin Lannister
No, the problem is that the engine is designed very poorly, especially the way it does ray tracing and box collision. Other games which are much older pull this off effortlessly. MC already pools AABBs for nearby blocks anyways, in a very pessimal way, so this wouldn't make much difference.
I would love a system like Assassin's Creed where hitting and blocking is visible from animations, and make a good 3rd person camera to go along with it.
Space Marine also has glorious melee combat, eventhough its simple it feels amazing just from the good animation.
as I still have a few thoughts on the subject.
Yes. This will be a big change for Zombies and Spiders, but it needs to happen. I hate how spiders counterattack a pack of
wolves too well because their hitbox damages mobs.
Unarmed zombies should have slow attacks and attack animations so players have good mobs to practice the new blocking
mechanic against.
Perfect.
My only strong disagreement. On a perfect block, I think more blocked damage and a delay on the next attack would be more
interesting and less OP than nullifying all damage on the blocked attack. Remember, we don't want anything on PVP that
would let one player kill another player in a fair fight without taking any damage at all in the process.
Against certain mobs like Spiders and Zombies, a weak knockback on a perfect block would be helpful as well as making
the fight more visually dramatic since it is hard for a third party to tell a block from a perfectly timed one.
Finally, to make it perfectly clear which mobs/players were affected by the block, blocked mobs would flash blue (as opposed
red when they get damaged) or emit a blue particle effect from their weapon.
Needs a little more in this section. Snowballs (and similar items) are super low tech, so they don't deserve a charge up throw. They do need a small cooldown around .5 seconds though, with a delay under .1 second.
Thrown Fire Charges should be able to light both mobs and blocks, but need delay animation of .5 seconds to give them a lower fire rate than other balls and give a pursuer a chance to dodge.
Slimeballs don't need knockback, the slowness effect should be enough, and Snowballs should have more knockback than fire charges.
Thanks a bunch man. Feedback like this makes my job so much easier.
People do seem to be indifferent about the blocking, so I will update it to block 80% damage instead of 100%. I shall also add your suggestions for mobs to flash 'blue' when a perfect block is achieved and small knockback applied, to both players. But I do think that in a fair fight a very skilled player should be able to emerge victorious with little damage inflicted upon himself.
Now, for the slimeballs and fire charges. I do think that a 'cooldown' is necessary after you throw them (0.3 seconds), along with a new animation for throwing itself to prevent spamming. But the delay when you right click should either be non-existant or very small (Definitely under 0.1 seconds as you stated, but the same for fire charges as well), because I can see it as being very annoying during a fight. The reason being because it is much more difficult to anticipate where the projectile is going to be in relation to your opponent after that delay, especially during PvP. Additionally, I don't really think the fire charges need such a large delay of 0.5s because the fact that they are rather expensive to craft balances it out a bit. However, I will change it to that both slimeballs and fire charges are only stackable to 16 like snowballs. This may further help with balancing. Lastly, I will reduce the knockback on impact with slimeballs, but I won't get rid of it entirely unless it is a strong opinion in the community.
Agreed. New animations are a must.
Yep, thanks for the feedback. I will tweak the throw times a bit.
I like this idea about the tiers and their respective weight, however I won't add it to the OP. But I think something like this would be good (In terms of light>heavy:
Gold>Leather/Wood>Stone>Diamond>Iron
- Lord Tywin Lannister