So you want Notch to support an External program to integrate circuits?
I really think this idea is more complicated than any other redstone circuit size reduction suggestion I've read. I mean redstone plugs and redstone blocks would make redstone circuits considerably smaller. There's no need to hold logic gates within the confines of 1 block.
Oh and btw one destruction of this block means the whole circuit gets destroyed. Saving data within a carryable block is a big No in Minecraft. I don't think Notch would add entire logic circuits to be saved under your inventory data.
That's just more reason to conceal them well.
Everybody keeps freaking out about the slightest inkling of griefing, when on non-pvp servers, anything important can be protected; and on pvp servers, there's no such thing as griefing.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You have just started
To read the haiku that you
Just finished reading
OMG don't let the Minecraft noobs see that. He considered adding magic to the game in that post.
BTW "Notch tries not to look at mods to avoid their ideas influencing his," but he is considering integration of some of the best ideas he added on. Really I don't think this could work and really he would only consider adding it if he 1. it got enough support to even consider it. 2. He had a need to add it in. (I really think he doesn't.) 3. He likes this idea enough and thinks it could work with the minecraft formula. (So far its not even workable in Minecraft) 4. You said this is an external program and not a mod. If it was like Foodcraft or something, then that would be doable, but it's a different program entirely that isn't designed to work with Minecraft, so we can't even be sure it would work. It's just a concept.)
I've been thinking about this for a while. how about if you could find silicon underground, which would give you 5-8 peices, and then craft like this
=redstone = silicon
you could place these blocks and then, get this, enter them...
in the "redstone world" you could only place silicon and redstone, this would solve the 3D problem.
this world would be a veary minecraft 64x64x16 room, which you could link with other block to increase the world's total size. also the redstone charge would carry infinetely in this world, would still need redstone to charge it first.
if you link together two R world blocks with redstone on one of the 6 sides, you could use portals to the auto portal to jump from one R world to the next. the only way to enter a world would be with a redstone portal. this would be made like this
[] []
[] []
=silicon = redstone =redstone world block
once yhe portal is connected to a Rworld block it would auto-activate, alowing you to enter the rworld like entering the nether. If you dont like this idea, that stinks, but if you do like it, please tell me and give me ideas to improve it.
( please pardon any bad grammer, or else )
Well, this seems to be the place to post this. Here goes:
Minecraft IC's would not be that hard to do. The best idea so far is a special work bench with two tables. I have been working on this idea for a while now and I think I have refined it.
As there isn't a good block for Redstone Dust or wires I will use to represent it.
First, a bridge block:
[] []
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This would look like a stone block that glows slightly when placed. If placed in a junction of redstone such as:
[] []
[]
[] []
It would bridge the wires opposite eachother without the two lines shorting, such as one line connects through the block and one connects over. This would eliminate having to create multi story structures to make a simple circuit. It will only connect the two redstone wires across from each other, never cornering each other. The direction of the placement doesn't matter as it just connects the wires opposite each other and it doesn't matter which goes over the block and which through.
Now, circuits. The idea of a two layer work bench is great. I will demonstrate below with designating the border of the two layers. Again is wire. is a redstone torch
Please ignore the blank blocks in the row with the upper and lower. They are there for spacing the labels only. The idea is to give a lot of space to work. Stone is required instead of cobblestone as it is denser and less likely to crumble as well as being slightly more resource hungry (smelting). If needed more stone could be added to encircle to whole thing leaving the redstone untouched:
So, basicaly all you are doing is recreating a basic recipe for building a huge logic gate, surrounding it in stone and compressing it to one block. Torches would be placed as if they would then attach to the nearest block. This would produce a block that takes two inputs (one left, one right) one output (back) the top and front of the block would have signs saying And Gate for identification. Maybe the front has the id sign, and the top has a small diagram pointing out the in and out-puts.
The big crafting board is meant to allow for larger gates like the xnor gate with would require a 8x5 grid if you include the stone casing. It would also allow for timers and pulse generators. I am using this as a reference: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/File: ... cGates.png
List of logic gates:
AND
OR
NAND
NOR
XOR
XNOR
Not is not required as you can just put a redstone torch on the output of your 1x1 gate to invert the out put.
Latches, flip-flops, etc:
You really only need one memory cell recipe as RS NOR Latches and RS NAND Latches function the same, just using different gates. Latches and flip-flops could be built using the logic gates that comprise them, or the minecraft large builds like the Gates did. The logic gate method could be more complex as you would enter your work table and put the pre-made logic gates into the grid and then connect them with redstone. An RS Nor Latch could look like this:
The is a NOR Gate, the is a cross over block (see the first part of the post). This method could get messy (as you can see) as it is harder to translate real world logic gates like this with the grid. I would recommend either including latches in the basic recipes or making them simple recipes that just require a few pre-made logic gates and some random redstone. The advantage to making things from premade logic gates is the ability to make much more complex items such as a relay.
A relay isn't repeater, meant to extend your 15 meter limit on redstone signal. It is a real electronic relay, an switch that takes one input and chooses an output based on a trigger input. It has one input, two outputs, and a switch input. As long as the switch input is powered, then it sends the signal input to the second output. Such as this:
=active redstone, = inactive redstone, = the relay. The top is the signal input (the signal coming from your source), the sides are the outputs, the bottom is the switch.
[] [] [] []
[] []
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So, as long as the bottom is off, the signal will come in the top and continue out the left side. If you activate the bottom of the relay (it would be the back of the block in 3D), the signal comes in the top and goes out the right side:
[] [] [] []
[] []
[] [] [] []
In Minecraft this currently takes a complicated mess of two AND gates and a RS NOR Latch. The latch is set as one input to each and gate and the switch or button or whatever is set to be the second input to both and gates. If the Latch is in its initial state then one AND gate is activated by the button, but if the latch is thrown to the set state then the button activates the other AND gate. Sadly I cannot get an illustration made as it is too complex. It is a mess, and that is what IC's would eliminate in Minecraft.
If nothing else, the redstone bridge (first part of the post) would be a God send for making more efficient circuits. If we see nothing else from this post come about, I pray we get one of those.
Instead of blocks, just make them a flat tile (like wire).
Example:
=wire
=block
=Torch on top of block
=Wire on top of block
=torch attached to block adjacent
[] [] []
[] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] [] []
[] [] [] []
[] []
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[] []
Save it on a single tile with one side set as the input and one as the output.
That's a Monostable circuit, by the way. Receives a pulse of input, stays on for a while, and shuts itself off. I use it in dispenser-arrow traps in combination with a 3-clock :biggrin.gif:. It's the old model (not used in the wiki) but I like it better than the new one (current ones used in the wiki).
Edit: Rambling aside, I could see a few problems. Saving all the data on one item, and stacking.
It could be two items:
IC Circuit [empty], stackable
IC Circuit [saved], none of which are stackable, and have a miniature picture of the circuit saved to them on the display. But then the problem would be showing the circuit that's on it; maybe just right-clicking in the inventory to see what's on it?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I realized I was god when I tried praying and found I was talking to myself.
I made a thread and someone directed me here. Essentially, I thought of a way to make the 'IC' blocks from a technical standpoint.
Redstone is probably the coolest and most flawed part of Minecraft.
The most obvious flaw is its size.
There is a simple solution to this problem! Think of the workbench. You open the item and are presented with a 3-by-3 grid to place items from your inventory. A new type of block could be created with an X-by-X interface, (where X is an odd number* will discuss why below) that allows users to place redstone and redstone torches into the slots, while still functioning amongst each other as they would if they were placed normally.
This would allow users to make circuits MUCH smaller than they are allowed to currently. This would also allow for much more complicated devices, which might possibly lead for new items to be developed. Basically, current block that can interact with redstone are limited! If redstone were more usable and had more functions, it might open the door for new types of mods, or blocks to interact with the newfound level of complexity.
There are some obvious problems, though, which I will address now.
This model only describes a two dimensional grid! Redstone, as we know it, almost always requires at least three dimensions to make circuits that serve a purpose, and aren't completely gigantic.
This could be addressed by providing just two layers of height. (Even though you need at least three layers in the minecraft world to lay out redstone that overlaps). To get rid of the arbitrary middle layer that separates full scale redstone circuitry, you essentially ignore it.
*The dimensions of the grid will have to be odd (3x3, 5x5, 7x7) because you need an odd block for an input/output that'd directly on the middle of any given side.
One layer will have to have a predetermined input/output role (only because I've chosen to try and make this block as simple as possible by removing torches). In this example, the bottom layer is the input**. Think of the black block as a a block with a redstone torch on the inside*** (instead of the torch being placed on the side or top).
In this example, redstone wire starts at the left side on the bottom layer, and carries the current to the center where there is a block placed. The redstone therefore deactivates the block, which will in turn, turn the block in the top layer, on! **** This will send a current to the output.
** This might provide a certain technical limitation (only encouraging people to build up, input on the bottom, output on top), which could be overcome with a simple toggling option
*** I'm sorry if this is hard to understand, I'm not sure of the technical term for 'block with redstone torch stuck to it'
**** Circuitry would ONLY go from the input layer (bottom) to the output layer (top). I believe this is a necessary step in eliminating torches to form this new 'circuit block'
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Inputs and outputs are described above, where any redstone placed on a rose block would be connected to the outside world. But, with two layers, how does one address this?
Two easy options.
1.) Toggle which sides of the block the top/bottom layers connect to (top left, right, front, back, bottom).
2.)The top layer would connect to three sides (top, left, front)
The bottom, three sides (bottom, right, back)
The orientation of the block is determined by the direction facing when the block is placed (exactly as doors are).
-----
Now that I've read this over a few times, I feel fairly confident that it all meshes out! It may sound a bit technical, or be a little hard to imagine, but in I believe that this would work in practice.
Please post any questions, comments, concerns, or straight up flaws you find!
OK, so these blocks are to condense redstone circuitry, making it simpler and easier to work with. It primarily involves the crafting of simple logic gates, but also includes the possibility of an electronics bench for the crafting of these redstone devices.
First off, the electronics bench. It would be crafted like so:
[]
[]
And would give an interface similiar to that of the crafting bench, and would allow the player to arrange redstone dust on the interface in order to create redstone circuitry parts.
------------
Each logic gate would be a block, very similiar to the current redstone repeaters in style. Each gate will usually with two inputs and one output for redstone 'cables' - the inputs would be opposite one another, with the output on another side, all on the horizontal axis.
The output would depend on the values of the inputs and the type of logic gate. Redstone uses a Boolean system - ON or OFF, 1 or 0, TRUE or FALSE. Note: In the following, T is True, F is False.
These are the gates craftable:
AND (output is T if both inputs are T)
OR (output is T if either or both inputs are T)
XOR (output is T if either inputs are T but not both)
NOT (output is T if input is F (1 INPUT, 1 OUTPUT))
Using a NOT gate in combination with others, NAND, NOR and NXOR gates could be made, also. This means:
NAND (output is T if both inputs are F)
NOR (output is T if either or both inputs are F)
NXOR (output is T if either inputs are F but not both)
For more information on how these logic gates work, read up on wikipedia. There are some tables and such that makes things clear. The above is a simple, quick overview of how simple boolean logic gates work. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic_gate
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Now, this idea for better redstone circuitry could potentially include other devices. I think pulsars could be very useful (device that rapidly turns on and off, and (like repeaters) this speed would be changeable). Also, perhaps memory?
What do you think? Comments? Additional ideas?
I like his idea more
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you stack a Desert Temple on the top of a Jungle Temple which is on the top of two churches you get a megazord
My idea is similar. A new Redstone circuit block based on an artificial neuron.
It would need to have an adjustable (or random) input threshold, and output power (distance of redstone wire powered). If the (summing) input threshold power level is met, the neuron fires passing on the signal to the output sides of the block (maybe two sides / top are input, and two sides/ bottom are output). Now, just need to change zombie drops to brains and we have the crafting materials... brains, redstone, and sand (silicon).
I see vast possibilities creating some unique, complicated stimulus/response circuits. Variably, neurons would work as amplifiers, dampeners, or repeaters. Maybe the amount of materials used would determine the firing threshold values.
Rather than relying on the construction of circuits which require (CPU costly) simulation to determine the output of the circuit. I think the better way to address more complex circuitry is to use truth tables instead.
Counter proposal
By building the block around truth tables, a sane subset of redstone circuits (those with fixed, time-independent input/output relations) can be constructed with a single block. Essentially these are all of the basic logic gates (NOT, AND, OR, XOR, NOR, XNOR, etc...). Regular redstone circuits need to be utilized for clocks, pulse generators, buttons, display, and other more dynamic circuits.
Each block has exactly 6 sides which can correspond to either an output or an input. The user indicates which sides are used as input and which sides as output. The number of outputs should lie between 1 and 6 (we do NOT allow 6 inputs). Any input which is not connected defaults to off. Whenever an output is turned on, the wire, torch or block placed on that side will be powered.
I suggest this new block to be crafted like this:
==>
where is redstone dust. The reverse craft should also be possible, i.e. convert this redstone block into 9 pieces of redstone dust. The block is unaffected by water/lava or gravity and cannot be moved by pistons.
GUI
[edit]New graphical GUI mockup:
Left picture: North output = east AND west; Top output = east XOR west
Right Picture: Repeats North input towards East and West, negates it towards South. Ignores the top and bottom inputs.
[/edit]
On the left side, the player specifies which sides are outputs (clicking the boxes toggles the checkbox).
The grid on the right is automatically modified when the set of outputs is changed as can be seen above. For each output it shows the possible combinations of input signals. By marking an input combination the corresponding output will be on whenever that input combination is detected. A cleared box means the corresponding output side will be off.
Internal storage overhead
These truth tables can be stored in a fairly compact manner: 1 byte for indicating which sides are outputs and 4 bytes (max) for the truth table.
Technical details of how this can be stored in a compact manner:
Let's number each of the sides in a fixed order:
0 = north 1 = east 2 = south 3 = west 4 = top 5 = bottom
Suppose we mark north and top as outputs (we pick north as the lower order bit), the output-mask will look as follows:
We can now easily construct an input vector based on the output mask, we test each side of the block for which the corresponding bit in the output mask is zero and set it to 1 if that side is receiving power and to zero otherwise.
For example, suppose we want the north side to emit east AND west and we want the top side to emit east XOR west.
The input vector for the north is given by: 0101 (bottom|west|south|east). (5 decimal)
The input vectors for the top are given by: 0001 and 0100 (1 and 4 decimal)
Since we have four inputs there are 16 possible combinations (0-15). So each output side requires 2 bytes to store their output vector.
For north: (5th bit set, rightmost bit is bit 0)
00000000 00100000
For top: (bits 1 and 4 set)
00000000 00010010
Hence this truth table can be stored in four bytes, like this:
00000000 00010010 00000000 00100000
This is also the maximum number of bytes that we require.
no inputs: 1 bit per output, 6 outputs total 6 bits
1 input: 2 bits per output, 5 outputs total 10 bits
2 inputs: 4 bits per output, 4 outputs total 16 bits
3 inputs: 8 bits per output, 3 outputs total 24 bits
4 inputs: 16 bits per output, 2 outputs total 32 bits
5 inputs: 32 bits per output, 1 output total 32 bits
So we can always store the entire table in a 32 bits word.
Hence one byte for the output vector and one 32 bits unsigned integer for a total of 5 bytes of storage are required. This storage can be placed e.g. in the chunk data segment. Similar to chest inventory and signs.
Efficient lookup
Compared to simulating a redstone circuit for each IC block, the outputs of this block can be set by performing an efficient lookup in the truth table.
Algorithm:
To perform a lookup, first construct the input vector (a bit is on if the corresponding side is powered). E.g. suppose top, east and west are receiving power. The Input vector equals 011010
Using the input vector, output mask and truth_table as inputs, we perform the following computation (using python syntax) to determine how to set the outputs:
# inputs:
INPUT_VECTOR = 0b011010
OUTPUT_MASK = 0b00010001
TRUTH_TABLE = 0b00000000001000000000000000010010
index = 0 # the input value to compute
bitcount = 1 # number of bits per output
# Convert the input vector to an index value:
for side in [BOTTOM, TOP, WEST, SOUTH, EAST, NORTH]:
if not (OUTPUT_MASK & (1 << side)): # this is an input
bitcount <<= 1
index = (index << 1) | ((INPUT_VECTOR >> side) & 1)
# Lookup the on/off state of each output for computed index:
offset = 0
for side in [NORTH, EAST, SOUTH, WEST, TOP, BOTTOM]:
if OUTPUT_MASK & (1 << side): # this is an output
setoutput(side, TRUTH_TABLE & (1 << (offset+index))
offset += bitcount
Compared to simulating an entire redstone circuit, this is a very cheap computation.
Conclusion
In this post I have described a simple way to create an extremely powerful redstone circuit block which allows for both a fairly compact and efficient implementation.
This block can be utilized for vertical wiring, underwater wiring, single-block gates up to 5 inputs and even multiple gates in a single block.
The interface, although without precedent in Minecraft (it changes dynamically), is implementable and allows quick configuration of the gates by anyone with a basic understanding of truth tables (which is virtually required to do anything of interest with redstone).
[edit]A mod which implements this idea is now available.[/edit]
Support the Allocator! Find my inventions such as my pressure plate removal detector on the About Me page of my profile.
I'm still looking for more feedback on my configurable Redstone Gate mod. All gates and common circuits (such as e.g. clocks, edge detectors, latches and Flip-Flops) in a single block.
Basically blocks that let you stuff a bunch of red stuff into one block, and make complex circuits that aren't HUGE.
Yeah! I had this idea a long time ago (I'm not going to try to find the thread); it was a box, like a chest, but made of metal, and you could place it anywhere and open it into a grid, and there would be input/output gates on each side.
It's a great idea, but then there's always the issue of circuits that require two or more levels of circuitry on the y axis (like crossing over wires), and the "OP" issues.
Just a quick bump. I added a graphical GUI mockup to my counter proposal in the post above.
I think this approach would make IC blocks way more reasonable to implement and it will also make redstone easier to use for the average player. Opinions?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Support the Allocator! Find my inventions such as my pressure plate removal detector on the About Me page of my profile.
I'm still looking for more feedback on my configurable Redstone Gate mod. All gates and common circuits (such as e.g. clocks, edge detectors, latches and Flip-Flops) in a single block.
I just read the post above and it's a very good idea, but too much text rather than actual pictures will make readers bored
Thank you.
You are right about the post length. I cleaned up the post a bit and hidden the technical parts as I expect that many users don't care about them anyway.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Support the Allocator! Find my inventions such as my pressure plate removal detector on the About Me page of my profile.
I'm still looking for more feedback on my configurable Redstone Gate mod. All gates and common circuits (such as e.g. clocks, edge detectors, latches and Flip-Flops) in a single block.
Instead for complex IC blocks, I prefer simpler circuit elements for more flexibility (and balance between simplicity and compactness). Simple logic gates, adjustable pulse generator and flip-flops are what I have in mind.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Air-dropped bombs come in 3 flavours, distinguished by their intelligence: smart, dumb and retarded.
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=155932
Crates
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=239467
Item Scrolling
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=174539
edit: Oh, and Notch actually is considering official implementation of a few mods. Take a look at this.
To read the haiku that you
Just finished reading
I really think this idea is more complicated than any other redstone circuit size reduction suggestion I've read. I mean redstone plugs and redstone blocks would make redstone circuits considerably smaller. There's no need to hold logic gates within the confines of 1 block.
Oh and btw one destruction of this block means the whole circuit gets destroyed. Saving data within a carryable block is a big No in Minecraft. I don't think Notch would add entire logic circuits to be saved under your inventory data.
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=155932
Crates
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=239467
Item Scrolling
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=174539
Everybody keeps freaking out about the slightest inkling of griefing, when on non-pvp servers, anything important can be protected; and on pvp servers, there's no such thing as griefing.
To read the haiku that you
Just finished reading
BTW "Notch tries not to look at mods to avoid their ideas influencing his," but he is considering integration of some of the best ideas he added on. Really I don't think this could work and really he would only consider adding it if he 1. it got enough support to even consider it. 2. He had a need to add it in. (I really think he doesn't.) 3. He likes this idea enough and thinks it could work with the minecraft formula. (So far its not even workable in Minecraft) 4. You said this is an external program and not a mod. If it was like Foodcraft or something, then that would be doable, but it's a different program entirely that isn't designed to work with Minecraft, so we can't even be sure it would work. It's just a concept.)
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=155932
Crates
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=239467
Item Scrolling
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=174539
I never said to outright use the program!
I said a system similar to it could be the best way to do something like what this thread is suggesting.
To read the haiku that you
Just finished reading
Edit: There's some much needed info on how to play here.
Mostly moved on. May check back a few times a year.
=redstone = silicon
you could place these blocks and then, get this, enter them...
in the "redstone world" you could only place silicon and redstone, this would solve the 3D problem.
this world would be a veary minecraft 64x64x16 room, which you could link with other block to increase the world's total size. also the redstone charge would carry infinetely in this world, would still need redstone to charge it first.
if you link together two R world blocks with redstone on one of the 6 sides, you could use portals to the auto portal to jump from one R world to the next. the only way to enter a world would be with a redstone portal. this would be made like this
[] []
[] []
=silicon = redstone =redstone world block
once yhe portal is connected to a Rworld block it would auto-activate, alowing you to enter the rworld like entering the nether. If you dont like this idea, that stinks, but if you do like it, please tell me and give me ideas to improve it.
( please pardon any bad grammer, or else )
Minecraft IC's would not be that hard to do. The best idea so far is a special work bench with two tables. I have been working on this idea for a while now and I think I have refined it.
As there isn't a good block for Redstone Dust or wires I will use to represent it.
First, a bridge block:
[] []
[] []
This would look like a stone block that glows slightly when placed. If placed in a junction of redstone such as:
[] []
[]
[] []
It would bridge the wires opposite eachother without the two lines shorting, such as one line connects through the block and one connects over. This would eliminate having to create multi story structures to make a simple circuit. It will only connect the two redstone wires across from each other, never cornering each other. The direction of the placement doesn't matter as it just connects the wires opposite each other and it doesn't matter which goes over the block and which through.
Now, circuits. The idea of a two layer work bench is great. I will demonstrate below with designating the border of the two layers. Again is wire. is a redstone torch
[] [] [] [] Lower [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] Upper [] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
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[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
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[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
Please ignore the blank blocks in the row with the upper and lower. They are there for spacing the labels only. The idea is to give a lot of space to work. Stone is required instead of cobblestone as it is denser and less likely to crumble as well as being slightly more resource hungry (smelting). If needed more stone could be added to encircle to whole thing leaving the redstone untouched:
[] [] [] [] Lower [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] Upper [] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
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[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
So, basicaly all you are doing is recreating a basic recipe for building a huge logic gate, surrounding it in stone and compressing it to one block. Torches would be placed as if they would then attach to the nearest block. This would produce a block that takes two inputs (one left, one right) one output (back) the top and front of the block would have signs saying And Gate for identification. Maybe the front has the id sign, and the top has a small diagram pointing out the in and out-puts.
The big crafting board is meant to allow for larger gates like the xnor gate with would require a 8x5 grid if you include the stone casing. It would also allow for timers and pulse generators. I am using this as a reference: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/File: ... cGates.png
List of logic gates:
AND
OR
NAND
NOR
XOR
XNOR
Not is not required as you can just put a redstone torch on the output of your 1x1 gate to invert the out put.
Latches, flip-flops, etc:
You really only need one memory cell recipe as RS NOR Latches and RS NAND Latches function the same, just using different gates. Latches and flip-flops could be built using the logic gates that comprise them, or the minecraft large builds like the Gates did. The logic gate method could be more complex as you would enter your work table and put the pre-made logic gates into the grid and then connect them with redstone. An RS Nor Latch could look like this:
[] [] [] [] Lower [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] Upper [] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] []
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The is a NOR Gate, the is a cross over block (see the first part of the post). This method could get messy (as you can see) as it is harder to translate real world logic gates like this with the grid. I would recommend either including latches in the basic recipes or making them simple recipes that just require a few pre-made logic gates and some random redstone. The advantage to making things from premade logic gates is the ability to make much more complex items such as a relay.
A relay isn't repeater, meant to extend your 15 meter limit on redstone signal. It is a real electronic relay, an switch that takes one input and chooses an output based on a trigger input. It has one input, two outputs, and a switch input. As long as the switch input is powered, then it sends the signal input to the second output. Such as this:
=active redstone, = inactive redstone, = the relay. The top is the signal input (the signal coming from your source), the sides are the outputs, the bottom is the switch.
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So, as long as the bottom is off, the signal will come in the top and continue out the left side. If you activate the bottom of the relay (it would be the back of the block in 3D), the signal comes in the top and goes out the right side:
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In Minecraft this currently takes a complicated mess of two AND gates and a RS NOR Latch. The latch is set as one input to each and gate and the switch or button or whatever is set to be the second input to both and gates. If the Latch is in its initial state then one AND gate is activated by the button, but if the latch is thrown to the set state then the button activates the other AND gate. Sadly I cannot get an illustration made as it is too complex. It is a mess, and that is what IC's would eliminate in Minecraft.
If nothing else, the redstone bridge (first part of the post) would be a God send for making more efficient circuits. If we see nothing else from this post come about, I pray we get one of those.
Its a pain in the ass having to run wires under my house in minecraft...
Example:
=wire
=block
=Torch on top of block
=Wire on top of block
=torch attached to block adjacent
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Save it on a single tile with one side set as the input and one as the output.
That's a Monostable circuit, by the way. Receives a pulse of input, stays on for a while, and shuts itself off. I use it in dispenser-arrow traps in combination with a 3-clock :biggrin.gif:. It's the old model (not used in the wiki) but I like it better than the new one (current ones used in the wiki).
Edit: Rambling aside, I could see a few problems. Saving all the data on one item, and stacking.
It could be two items:
IC Circuit [empty], stackable
IC Circuit [saved], none of which are stackable, and have a miniature picture of the circuit saved to them on the display. But then the problem would be showing the circuit that's on it; maybe just right-clicking in the inventory to see what's on it?
NOT TRUE! the meta data parameter...
I like his idea more
It would need to have an adjustable (or random) input threshold, and output power (distance of redstone wire powered). If the (summing) input threshold power level is met, the neuron fires passing on the signal to the output sides of the block (maybe two sides / top are input, and two sides/ bottom are output). Now, just need to change zombie drops to brains and we have the crafting materials... brains, redstone, and sand (silicon).
I see vast possibilities creating some unique, complicated stimulus/response circuits. Variably, neurons would work as amplifiers, dampeners, or repeaters. Maybe the amount of materials used would determine the firing threshold values.
Counter proposal
By building the block around truth tables, a sane subset of redstone circuits (those with fixed, time-independent input/output relations) can be constructed with a single block. Essentially these are all of the basic logic gates (NOT, AND, OR, XOR, NOR, XNOR, etc...). Regular redstone circuits need to be utilized for clocks, pulse generators, buttons, display, and other more dynamic circuits.
Each block has exactly 6 sides which can correspond to either an output or an input. The user indicates which sides are used as input and which sides as output. The number of outputs should lie between 1 and 6 (we do NOT allow 6 inputs). Any input which is not connected defaults to off. Whenever an output is turned on, the wire, torch or block placed on that side will be powered.
I suggest this new block to be crafted like this:
==>
where is redstone dust. The reverse craft should also be possible, i.e. convert this redstone block into 9 pieces of redstone dust. The block is unaffected by water/lava or gravity and cannot be moved by pistons.
GUI
[edit]New graphical GUI mockup:
Left picture: North output = east AND west; Top output = east XOR west
Right Picture: Repeats North input towards East and West, negates it towards South. Ignores the top and bottom inputs.
[/edit]
On the left side, the player specifies which sides are outputs (clicking the boxes toggles the checkbox).
The grid on the right is automatically modified when the set of outputs is changed as can be seen above. For each output it shows the possible combinations of input signals. By marking an input combination the corresponding output will be on whenever that input combination is detected. A cleared box means the corresponding output side will be off.
This is essentially the disjunctive normal form of logical expressions.
Internal storage overhead
These truth tables can be stored in a fairly compact manner: 1 byte for indicating which sides are outputs and 4 bytes (max) for the truth table.
Technical details of how this can be stored in a compact manner:
Let's number each of the sides in a fixed order:
0 = north 1 = east 2 = south 3 = west 4 = top 5 = bottom
Suppose we mark north and top as outputs (we pick north as the lower order bit), the output-mask will look as follows:
We can now easily construct an input vector based on the output mask, we test each side of the block for which the corresponding bit in the output mask is zero and set it to 1 if that side is receiving power and to zero otherwise.
For example, suppose we want the north side to emit east AND west and we want the top side to emit east XOR west.
Hence one byte for the output vector and one 32 bits unsigned integer for a total of 5 bytes of storage are required. This storage can be placed e.g. in the chunk data segment. Similar to chest inventory and signs.
Compared to simulating a redstone circuit for each IC block, the outputs of this block can be set by performing an efficient lookup in the truth table.
Algorithm:
To perform a lookup, first construct the input vector (a bit is on if the corresponding side is powered). E.g. suppose top, east and west are receiving power. The Input vector equals 011010
Using the input vector, output mask and truth_table as inputs, we perform the following computation (using python syntax) to determine how to set the outputs:
Compared to simulating an entire redstone circuit, this is a very cheap computation.
In this post I have described a simple way to create an extremely powerful redstone circuit block which allows for both a fairly compact and efficient implementation.
This block can be utilized for vertical wiring, underwater wiring, single-block gates up to 5 inputs and even multiple gates in a single block.
The interface, although without precedent in Minecraft (it changes dynamically), is implementable and allows quick configuration of the gates by anyone with a basic understanding of truth tables (which is virtually required to do anything of interest with redstone).
[edit]A mod which implements this idea is now available.[/edit]
I'm still looking for more feedback on my configurable Redstone Gate mod. All gates and common circuits (such as e.g. clocks, edge detectors, latches and Flip-Flops) in a single block.
Yeah! I had this idea a long time ago (I'm not going to try to find the thread); it was a box, like a chest, but made of metal, and you could place it anywhere and open it into a grid, and there would be input/output gates on each side.
It's a great idea, but then there's always the issue of circuits that require two or more levels of circuitry on the y axis (like crossing over wires), and the "OP" issues.
I think this approach would make IC blocks way more reasonable to implement and it will also make redstone easier to use for the average player. Opinions?
I'm still looking for more feedback on my configurable Redstone Gate mod. All gates and common circuits (such as e.g. clocks, edge detectors, latches and Flip-Flops) in a single block.
Thank you.
You are right about the post length. I cleaned up the post a bit and hidden the technical parts as I expect that many users don't care about them anyway.
I'm still looking for more feedback on my configurable Redstone Gate mod. All gates and common circuits (such as e.g. clocks, edge detectors, latches and Flip-Flops) in a single block.