The "rarest" of all resources in Minecraft is not any block or item but experience.
Even after they cut the level requirement from level 50 to level 30 for max enchants
Even after they reduced the EXP cost to level up
Even after they added more ways to gain EXP
(all together, we have at least 3 times more experience than before)
Even after all that this resource is still too rare and costly and is a completely bonkers system.
The price to CREATE the best strong magics could actually be increased.
The magic book in loot chests should be rarer, never more than Rank I, mostly found for the most ordinary enchantments (those enchantments with only a low number for their maximum Rank should be rarer than the others, and the "best" ones hat everybodey would salivate to get should be super rare in loot chests). EXP bottles would be a good replacement. But finding a book containing the equivalent of 1000+ EXP is OP.
And the repair prices are just crazy.
Let's say you have a full set of enchanted diamond stuff. Through normal gameplay, by the time you need to repair everything (let's limit to 4 armor, 1 sword, 1 pickaxe), you'd have make won enough experience to repair maybe 2 of those. In the long run it is a losing proposition. Having to spend a non-negligible BUT LESS THAN 100% of your experience to be able to repair ALL of your magic gear is an absolute requirement.
Currently, the game almost REQUIRES players to make a XP grinder. Making the values "fit better" with the normal XP gain of vanilla would give way too much power to those players making grinders.
So as an essential aspect of adjusting XP costs, grinders should be nerfed. And by nerfed I actuallky mean NERFED A LOT. Like, say, by a factor of 30 or more.
Several tricks could be added to make the game detect EXP / Mob grinders and these mobs shouldn't drop anything. It would be very easy to do in lots of ways:
- When a player kills something, keep track. Detect when player has already killed no more than X mob type Y recently. Lower XP (and even normal) drops accordingly.
- When mobs are "packed together", they get flagged so they will give reduced drops (especially XP), and past some density point, none at all. Or they start suffocating and if they de from that, they don't drop anything.
- If the player can strike it, then it also can strike him too. Or maybe, when there is no risk involved then the mob drops less experience or even none at all.
- Mobs keep a track of what damaged it. The % of drops depend on the % of damage from player (with the mob able to attack). Mobs fully killed by non-player don't drop anything. This includes zombie and skeletons burned in the morning.
- Boost mob EXP when the mob can attack, only if the mob succesfully dealt at least 1 damage.
Lots of other tricks possible. Not suggesting to use all of them only the few most effective and simplest to code ones.
In short, make it so that grinders would give say no more than double (per hour of active play) the amount of resources than normal play, and a fraction of normal play if the play can simply "harvest while AFK".
Removing this flagrant way to exploit XP production through grinders would finally open the door to make ing the XP system more balanced, so that players would have, through normal playing, a suffficient amount of XP to maintain their magical items.
I'm not saying XP gains vs costs should be made so that a player can equip all of his gear with superb maximum enchantments, even Shears and Hoes, so that he can use them ALL THE TIME. But he should be able to wear them much more often than now and still gain enough XP to repair is most preferred ones. It is especially the repairing which hurts.
Another fix could be to simply triple all durabilities lol.
I think your post could be a bit more, shall we say, "friendly-like". Also, the original post seems like a "let's change the XP system" suggestion for about the first couple lines, at which point it becomes a "nerf mob grinders" suggestion. I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing, I'm just not sure what you want. Furthermore, I found it hard to understand/read. That's just superficial criticism, though, and I'll think about this some more.
I find this suggestion a tad odd. I actually don't have any problem with the XP system as it currently exists. I almost always have a bunch of XP sitting around to the point that I make an extra item to enchant just so I get rid of the levels, and I never use mob grinders of any kind. In fact, the only thing I want to change about the XP system is a way to store XP without enchanting an item, preferably at some amount of cost like 10-20% of the levels you spent.
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I am very unsatisfied with my opinion of this idea, but the above comments gave me something to say, which is that I frequently get to level 30 through mining alone. I reach that level relatively quickly, without burning through even one diamond pickaxe. And not only do I level up, I also receive plenty of ores and building material. I can even gain significant amounts of XP through breeding and killing my animals.
So I have never had a serious issue with a lack of levels or enchanted gear in my single player worlds (there are some other things about enchanting I might tweak), but it might be different on a highly competitive, PVP multiplayer server. (I rarely play multiplayer, so I wouldn't know). I have always thought of mob grinding as kind of "cheap", but since I neither personally grind, nor have felt any need to, I think my opinion is void.
Just wanted to add my experience, and I'm very sorry I had to post twice just to find my opinion.
Even after all that this resource is still too rare and costly and is a completely bonkers system.
In a lot of ways, I agree with you; it needs to be fixed. If it was up to me though, I'd throw out the whole thing and start fresh. Minecraft worked so well as a game where you hunted around for the resources you needed to build things. And then all of a sudden enchanting is introduced that works based on a universal and flavourless resource.
There was so much potential with books and runes too. Wouldn't it be great if the runes actually meant something? If you had to seek out certain runes, or something, anything?
And the repair prices are just crazy.
Let's say you have a full set of enchanted diamond stuff. Through normal gameplay, by the time you need to repair everything (let's limit to 4 armor, 1 sword, 1 pickaxe), you'd have make won enough experience to repair maybe 2 of those. In the long run it is a losing proposition. Having to spend a non-negligible BUT LESS THAN 100% of your experience to be able to repair ALL of your magic gear is an absolute requirement.
I'm actually fine with the repair prices. The thing that bothers me is the randomness of getting all the enchantments I want in the first place. I am trying to get Unbreaking on everything, and it's taking me forever.
However, once I have it on everything, I won't need to worry. Every time a tool drops down into the red, I'll go on an XP trip, which is at most two nights of wandering through the plains/desert. (I also have multiple grinders in my world, but I don't like to use them.)
Currently, the game almost REQUIRES players to make a XP grinder. Making the values "fit better" with the normal XP gain of vanilla would give way too much power to those players making grinders.
So as an essential aspect of adjusting XP costs, grinders should be nerfed. And by nerfed I actuallky mean NERFED A LOT. Like, say, by a factor of 30 or more.
Several tricks could be added to make the game detect EXP / Mob grinders and these mobs shouldn't drop anything. It would be very easy to do in lots of ways:
- When a player kills something, keep track. Detect when player has already killed no more than X mob type Y recently. Lower XP (and even normal) drops accordingly.
- When mobs are "packed together", they get flagged so they will give reduced drops (especially XP), and past some density point, none at all. Or they start suffocating and if they de from that, they don't drop anything.
- If the player can strike it, then it also can strike him too. Or maybe, when there is no risk involved then the mob drops less experience or even none at all.
- Mobs keep a track of what damaged it. The % of drops depend on the % of damage from player (with the mob able to attack). Mobs fully killed by non-player don't drop anything. This includes zombie and skeletons burned in the morning.
- Boost mob EXP when the mob can attack, only if the mob succesfully dealt at least 1 damage.
Lots of other tricks possible. Not suggesting to use all of them only the few most effective and simplest to code ones.
Well, I agree, but maybe you don't want my support, and I'll explain why. I'm a vindictive person, and I don't like to use grinders, therefore I don't think anybody else should use grinders. But I do have a legitimate complaint, and that is when I play with my preferred playstyle, ie. no grinders, I'm less effective. If I come on to the forums and complain that enchanting is too hard, people will yell at me "MAKE A GRNIDER N00B" and I don't like that.
I also just want people to keep in mind what XP is supposed to represent. It's such an established part of gaming, you forget, but you get XP from killing a mob because supposedly somehow Stevie "learned" something about how to fight. You get XP from mining stuff because Stevie "learned" something about geology. You get XP from watching animals mate (? !) because Stevie learned about the birds and the bees (speaking of bees, why aren't they in Minecraft yet?).
And then you turn the XP or knowledge balls, into stored knowledge in books, like a book on how to make a great sword even better. Or you somehow invest the knowledge balls in making a pickaxe that lasts longer, maybe from that XP you gained when mining you learned about fracture lines or something.
Point is, if those balls were "magic points" I'd be a little more forgiving. But calling them XP invites nonsense, and just makes things confusing.
I have a castle with a normal sized chicken/Cow/ Pig farm. In the act of breeding all the chickens, cows and pigs and then killing some of them i get like 15 levels or so, so i can stay in the castle, do that two or three times while i kill some of the monsters that spawn sometime and then i have level 30 to enchant something! So i dont think the experience levels should be lower.
What i am agree with, is the costs of renaming and repairing. Those should be like half they are now. And what i also think is that one could get back to enchant to levels higher than 30, so one can force the game to give specific enchantments to the thing i want to enchant.
I think that abandoned chests are already rare and hard to find unless you mined into an abandoned mine shaft. I also barely get level 2 enchantments in enchantment tables ever. I do agree that xp is very rare and you don't get enough of it when doing everything you need to do to get it. I think that xp should be better on enchantment tables because when I use level 10 enchantment I get knockback I.
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Even after they cut the level requirement from level 50 to level 30 for max enchants
Even after they reduced the EXP cost to level up
Even after they added more ways to gain EXP
(all together, we have at least 3 times more experience than before)
Even after all that this resource is still too rare and costly and is a completely bonkers system.
The price to CREATE the best strong magics could actually be increased.
The magic book in loot chests should be rarer, never more than Rank I, mostly found for the most ordinary enchantments (those enchantments with only a low number for their maximum Rank should be rarer than the others, and the "best" ones hat everybodey would salivate to get should be super rare in loot chests). EXP bottles would be a good replacement. But finding a book containing the equivalent of 1000+ EXP is OP.
And the repair prices are just crazy.
Let's say you have a full set of enchanted diamond stuff. Through normal gameplay, by the time you need to repair everything (let's limit to 4 armor, 1 sword, 1 pickaxe), you'd have make won enough experience to repair maybe 2 of those. In the long run it is a losing proposition. Having to spend a non-negligible BUT LESS THAN 100% of your experience to be able to repair ALL of your magic gear is an absolute requirement.
Currently, the game almost REQUIRES players to make a XP grinder. Making the values "fit better" with the normal XP gain of vanilla would give way too much power to those players making grinders.
So as an essential aspect of adjusting XP costs, grinders should be nerfed. And by nerfed I actuallky mean NERFED A LOT. Like, say, by a factor of 30 or more.
Several tricks could be added to make the game detect EXP / Mob grinders and these mobs shouldn't drop anything. It would be very easy to do in lots of ways:
- When a player kills something, keep track. Detect when player has already killed no more than X mob type Y recently. Lower XP (and even normal) drops accordingly.
- When mobs are "packed together", they get flagged so they will give reduced drops (especially XP), and past some density point, none at all. Or they start suffocating and if they de from that, they don't drop anything.
- If the player can strike it, then it also can strike him too. Or maybe, when there is no risk involved then the mob drops less experience or even none at all.
- Mobs keep a track of what damaged it. The % of drops depend on the % of damage from player (with the mob able to attack). Mobs fully killed by non-player don't drop anything. This includes zombie and skeletons burned in the morning.
- Boost mob EXP when the mob can attack, only if the mob succesfully dealt at least 1 damage.
Lots of other tricks possible. Not suggesting to use all of them only the few most effective and simplest to code ones.
In short, make it so that grinders would give say no more than double (per hour of active play) the amount of resources than normal play, and a fraction of normal play if the play can simply "harvest while AFK".
Removing this flagrant way to exploit XP production through grinders would finally open the door to make ing the XP system more balanced, so that players would have, through normal playing, a suffficient amount of XP to maintain their magical items.
I'm not saying XP gains vs costs should be made so that a player can equip all of his gear with superb maximum enchantments, even Shears and Hoes, so that he can use them ALL THE TIME. But he should be able to wear them much more often than now and still gain enough XP to repair is most preferred ones. It is especially the repairing which hurts.
Another fix could be to simply triple all durabilities lol.
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Retired StaffSo I have never had a serious issue with a lack of levels or enchanted gear in my single player worlds (there are some other things about enchanting I might tweak), but it might be different on a highly competitive, PVP multiplayer server. (I rarely play multiplayer, so I wouldn't know). I have always thought of mob grinding as kind of "cheap", but since I neither personally grind, nor have felt any need to, I think my opinion is void.
Just wanted to add my experience, and I'm very sorry I had to post twice just to find my opinion.
In a lot of ways, I agree with you; it needs to be fixed. If it was up to me though, I'd throw out the whole thing and start fresh. Minecraft worked so well as a game where you hunted around for the resources you needed to build things. And then all of a sudden enchanting is introduced that works based on a universal and flavourless resource.
There was so much potential with books and runes too. Wouldn't it be great if the runes actually meant something? If you had to seek out certain runes, or something, anything?
I'm actually fine with the repair prices. The thing that bothers me is the randomness of getting all the enchantments I want in the first place. I am trying to get Unbreaking on everything, and it's taking me forever.
However, once I have it on everything, I won't need to worry. Every time a tool drops down into the red, I'll go on an XP trip, which is at most two nights of wandering through the plains/desert. (I also have multiple grinders in my world, but I don't like to use them.)
Well, I agree, but maybe you don't want my support, and I'll explain why. I'm a vindictive person, and I don't like to use grinders, therefore I don't think anybody else should use grinders. But I do have a legitimate complaint, and that is when I play with my preferred playstyle, ie. no grinders, I'm less effective. If I come on to the forums and complain that enchanting is too hard, people will yell at me "MAKE A GRNIDER N00B" and I don't like that.
I also just want people to keep in mind what XP is supposed to represent. It's such an established part of gaming, you forget, but you get XP from killing a mob because supposedly somehow Stevie "learned" something about how to fight. You get XP from mining stuff because Stevie "learned" something about geology. You get XP from watching animals mate (? !) because Stevie learned about the birds and the bees (speaking of bees, why aren't they in Minecraft yet?).
And then you turn the XP or knowledge balls, into stored knowledge in books, like a book on how to make a great sword even better. Or you somehow invest the knowledge balls in making a pickaxe that lasts longer, maybe from that XP you gained when mining you learned about fracture lines or something.
Point is, if those balls were "magic points" I'd be a little more forgiving. But calling them XP invites nonsense, and just makes things confusing.
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What i am agree with, is the costs of renaming and repairing. Those should be like half they are now. And what i also think is that one could get back to enchant to levels higher than 30, so one can force the game to give specific enchantments to the thing i want to enchant.
ALSO CHECK OUT HYBRID CRAFTAND SHIPPING CRAFT BY GeForce13
1. Make mob farm (I think this is fun)
2. Grind mobs at night (I think this is not fun)
When I say mob farm I don't mean those small grinders that use spawner block.
I mean large builds that take time and skill to make.