Do you honestly delete your world if you die once in infdev? Do you abandon the base you've been building up for the last 2 days and start over, forgetting all about your miles of mines, your piles of resources, your half-built tower of gold?
Perma-death is a terrible idea. Without exceptions. End of discussion.
I like the idea of craftable spawn points, as well as temporary penalties for having died. Perhaps a ressurection sickness that weakens the attacks and doubles the time it takes to mine anything. Also you could temporarily have your max hearts halved.
But perma-death has no place as the default game setting.
I'm not opposed to a hardcore mode, though.
Exactly. But some people want that for whatever reason. Why not allow the server host to choose how it works?
Honestly, this is the best idea I've seen.
Upon joining a server, it would display whether it was set at:
Easy: Upon death, you spawn on your crafted respawn point. You also recieve 1 at your joining of the server. If you don't have one (someone destroyed it, you never placed one, etc), then you spawn within 100? blocks of your death area.
Normal: Upon death, you spawn on your crafted respawn point. You don't start with one. If you don't have one (someone destroyed it, you never placed one, etc), you spawn within 1,000? blocks of your death area.
Hardcore: Upon death, you spawn where you spawned when the server started, E.G., the global respawn.
I'm normally opposed to adding a bunch of silly options to servers for every little variable, but in this case, a hardcore/normal/cooperative option makes perfect senese. Like difficulty modes for multiplayer.
and goblin-raider, do we still get single player, or does that count as an 'exception'? :tongue.gif:
I'm normally opposed to adding a bunch of silly options to servers for every little variable, but in this case, a hardcore/normal/cooperative option makes perfect senese. Like difficulty modes for multiplayer.
and goblin-raider, do we still get single player, or does that count as an 'exception'? :tongue.gif:
I mean PvP shouldn't be an option in MP, its a must have.
I do agree with Notch on making things hard before easy.
Perma-death is a terrible idea. Without exceptions. End of discussion.
I like the idea of craftable spawn points, as well as temporary penalties for having died. Perhaps a ressurection sickness that weakens the attacks and doubles the time it takes to mine anything. Also you could temporarily have your max hearts halved.
But perma-death has no place as the default game setting.
I'm not opposed to a hardcore mode, though.
Quite a few people have been misinterpreting my use of "permanent death", which is my fault. When I say permanent death, I mean spawning very far away from your old area. I, too, agree that real permanent death is bad.
I think you should respawn very far away from where you died, perhaps on a different island/continent. This makes death all the more "tragic" for others, since it makes the chances that they will see that person again very low. It also gives more of an incentive to not die, because respawning nearby makes death simply an annoyance.
It would also remove the possibility of spawn camping which I was going to point out in the forums.
Quite a few people have been misinterpreting my use of "permanent death", which is my fault. When I say permanent death, I mean spawning very far away from your old area. I, too, agree that real permanent death is bad.
There isn't much real difference. The other problem with that, is it automatically inflates the size of the map, which is hard on the server.
I expect the difficulty to be cranked much higher by release, and correspondingly, expect to die relatively often. I admit, hard right now isn't very dangerous, but that should change. If you can't reasonably expect to live for a long time, then extremly strict death penalties are unfair.
Basically, I want the difficulty of the game to come from actually playing the game, not overly harsh penalties for dying. If I can reasonably expect to live for extended periods of time, then the game isn't hard. If it adds a overly strict death penalty, then it is just an annoying game. If it is both hard to survive and has such a strict death penalty, then it is just sadistic. I prefer a game like "I want to be the guy" Where it WILL kill you, OFTEN, but you just go back to the last checkpoint and try again, over a game like "Happ-go-lucky sunshine time", but if you do die, it erases itself from your computer, and prevents you form reinstalling. "I want to be the guy" that deletes your save is utterly sadistic.
Perma-death is a terrible idea. Without exceptions. End of discussion.
I like the idea of craftable spawn points, as well as temporary penalties for having died. Perhaps a ressurection sickness that weakens the attacks and doubles the time it takes to mine anything. Also you could temporarily have your max hearts halved.
But perma-death has no place as the default game setting.
I'm not opposed to a hardcore mode, though.
Quite a few people have been misinterpreting my use of "permanent death", which is my fault. When I say permanent death, I mean spawning very far away from your old area. I, too, agree that real permanent death is bad.
Problem being is that as things stand spawning miles away from your home means you've lost it. You'll likely never ever find it again, you've got no map, no idea which direction its in and no gear!
Minecraft is not a game about combat, sure it has it but the onus of gameplay has never been killing people or creatures. Minecraft is all about creativity and exploration.
The idea of 'oh you don't like killing people - go play creative' is just ignorant. I want SMP so i can cooperate with people and build impressive structures with the challenges smp provides. If i wanted to just be creative i'd continue working with z-brush or modelling programs, but i do that all day.
Problems with your death system:
Spawn to far - you'll never find your base.
Server ban - Don't dictate how i play a game i've paid for.
Accidental deaths are too easy to have an oppressively harsh death system.
I'd be in favour of perhaps a system whereby your stuff drops as now then you have a spawn timer. If you die in 10 minutes of that death the spawn timer doubles. If you die in X minutes of that then it doubles again - on and on exponentially.
I've also got no qualms with having to walk a good distance (say 150% to 300%of the max view distance?) back to my original location as long as I've got a pointer telling me i'm going in the right direction.
Perhaps have a scoring system similar to old survival where you gain points for being online and active with big bonuses for being in a place monsters can get you. When you die you lose every last one of your points, perhaps higher points allowing you to purchase titles, lay land claims or such.
Incentivise survival rather than punish accidental death.
Edited to add an important point: Permadeath in Multiplayer should allow you to be saved from hazards by your friends, or even by strangers. I (personally) would not want you to die as easily as you do in SP; there should be some form of intermediary 'not dead yet, but helpless' state where you have an extra 10 or so hearts (beyond the first 10).
Quote from virulentRant »
REALITY DOES NOT A GOOD GAME MAKE.
PERMANENT DEATH WOULD NOT BE NEARLY AS FUN WHEN THERE'S ONLY ONE CHANCE.
As I currently understand it, this would mean that you could only "die" on a server once. While I agree that some players, if they want to, should be able to set this as an option when they join, it should not be made mandatory.
Like Diablo II's hardcore mode, basically, could work.
Other than that, there should be low penalties for death.
tbh it doesn't have to do with making it realistic at all, at least not when I suggested it.
It has to do with putting weight being death to make the world interesting. If death has great power then it will inevitably be a big choice to decide to kill someone. Nobody will want to die [which is as it should be - I can imagine people just killing themselves to get back 'home' easily if they get lost, which is kind of dumb] and many people will actually strive for peace and civilization instead of the game turning into a mediocre "kill whoever you want because nobody gives a ****"-fest.
I would never suggest permanently booting a player off of a server. You could be out for 4-24 hours, far more than long enough that no sane person is going to sit around waiting to join the same server after dying. If you're going to boot a player to a random part of the map and prevent him/her from getting back home, you might as well do this.
Quote from almightyzentaco »
Perma-death is a terrible idea. Without exceptions. End of discussion.
[...]
But perma-death has no place as the default game setting.
I'm not opposed to a hardcore mode, though.
You sure are good at making useful arguments!
I'm sorry, zentaco, but you're not as almighty as your name suggests and you can't just end a discussion by saying it's over.
Diablo II's hardcore mode
hardcore mode
Hardcore
hardcore
;___;
Can we please call it something else? anything else
Server ban - Don't dictate how i play a game i've paid for.
Accidental deaths are too easy to have an oppressively harsh death system.
1. You make accidental deaths less difficult, especially if you travel in a party. Yes, if you fall into lava, you may be screwed -- but it could be interesting if after losing all of your hearts you have 10 extra hearts that need to be drained before you are truly killed. In this state you may be bleeding out, or you may just be unconscious and require an ally to help you (or if you are in a safe position, you may slowly recover all on your own). If you're living alone or travelling alone in a cave and something bad happens in SINGLE-PLAYER, maybe the game needs to be fair about it. However, if you're doing something incredibly dangerous in multiplayer, bring a friend or two along.
2. "Don't dictate how I play a game I've paid for"? A GAME IS A SET OF RULES, so deal with it.
You have to put two wood blocks together to make four sticks
HEY DON'T DICTATE HOW I PLAY A GAME I'VE PAID FOR I WANNA MAKE A STICK OUT OF A ROCK AND DIRT
Seriously.
Come up with a better argument.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I want to see forum posts saying "how do i kill dragon" with replies reading "lol"."
---> vede claimed Notch said this (and it is awesome).
If you are friends with people on your favourite server, then for the most part it will be (or should be) difficult to die.
What'll kill you, unless you go out and try to do something crazy like a swan dive into lava or a solo rush into a mob of creepers?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I want to see forum posts saying "how do i kill dragon" with replies reading "lol"."
---> vede claimed Notch said this (and it is awesome).
If you are friends with people on your favourite server, then for the most part it will be (or should be) difficult to die.
What'll kill you, unless you go out and try to do something crazy like a swan dive into lava or a solo rush into a mob of creepers?
Fall damage, misplaced water/lava (especially with notch's terrible liquid physics), monsters if you try to do anything but hide in a house at night, mining the wrong spot, trying to make your house anything but four dirt walls and a roof, a player that doesn't like you, a joke gone wrong, the list just keeps building and building.
Basically, you can die from anything at anytime, doesn't matter how many friends you have watching your back.
Besides, a respawn time that long is basically telling me I can't play a game I paid for.
Server ban - Don't dictate how i play a game i've paid for.
Accidental deaths are too easy to have an oppressively harsh death system.
1. You make accidental deaths less difficult, especially if you travel in a party. Yes, if you fall into lava, you may be screwed -- but it could be interesting if after losing all of your hearts you have 10 extra hearts that need to be drained before you are truly killed. In this state you may be bleeding out, or you may just be unconscious and require an ally to help you (or if you are in a safe position, you may slowly recover all on your own). If you're living alone or travelling alone in a cave and something bad happens in SINGLE-PLAYER, maybe the game needs to be fair about it. However, if you're doing something incredibly dangerous in multiplayer, bring a friend or two along.
2. "Don't dictate how I play a game I've paid for"? A GAME IS A SET OF RULES, so deal with it.
You have to put two wood blocks together to make four sticks
HEY DON'T DICTATE HOW I PLAY A GAME I'VE PAID FOR I WANNA MAKE A STICK OUT OF A ROCK AND DIRT
Seriously.
Come up with a better argument.
I don't see anything wrong with my argument. I was referfing to gaming vs meta-game. I've not got any problems there being gameplay rules but a temp ban from a server goes beyond gameplay restrictions into the meta-game. It's not stopping me from doing something in the game, it's stopping me from playing the game!
Next time: think before you use strawman arguments and gimmicky soundbites.
Quote from Droqen »
many people will actually strive for peace and civilization instead of the game turning into a mediocre "kill whoever you want because nobody gives a ****"-fest.
I disagree here, gauging from the responses people here they'll kill you as soon as they see you. I'd say 1 in 3 people you meet might want to cooperate. If the most of them find you incapacitated and bleeding out then they'll probably deal the final blow.
That said i do like the incapacitation idea, mandatory time-out is too far though. In games with perma-death, you die and you come back with another character as fast as it takes to make one. I'm not accepting the whole 'join another server argument' the main reason i'm looking forwards to SMP is to play with friends on a server together.
As for incapacitation i actually really like the idea. It's got the nice upshot of allowing cool rescue missions like scaling to the bottom of the crevasse your friend toppled down and patching him up.
I'd be happy to implement incapacitation if it gave you a choice:
A) Wait it out. Gaze at the stars above and watch night turn in to day. Perhaps allow you to move as if crouched and not use any weapons so you can crawl away into a hole to escape roving monsters. Yo drag your stuff with you and after your time-out is up you are able to resume normal work. If a friend gets to you they can provide a splint (wool and 2 sticks?) and you're back in working order.
As an extra you could give players the option to drag you. Which means they move half speed and can drag you out of danger (or roll you over the cliff onto the crashing rocks below)
:cool.gif: Give up. You lie down and die, maybe by automatic means maybe using the above method to crawl up single block inclines to drop off a cliff. All your stuff is lootable instantly possibly exploding from your corpse as now but. You still spawn a good distance away from your last location but you get vague hints about the direction of your last location.
Perhaps as a little extra your corpse summons a skeleton/zombie or another adversary when you approach which forces you to defeat or evade or acts as a monster magnet just it to make this a less attractive (and more atmospheric) option.
I was going to respond to Dude but then I read Raane's post and I think I'll respond to that instead because it's more interesting thank you Raane :biggrin.gif:
[ Dude: there are so many ways to avoid all of those problems. ]
Raane:
Pretty much everything I've read leads to the conclusion that most people here just want to play creative with materials and monsters. Weird. Maybe I should re-read to see if there are some people I missed.
In any case, the thing I want to do is dissuade people from going around and randomly killing people, because if they do then they're bound to die quickly.
The problem with Minecraft vs. other permadeath games is that it's really easy to build up and plan for death in Minecraft because the world is so free. You can make chests to hold all of your items and build a fort, so that if you die there's really no 'perma' to it. All of your stuff is still your stuff. Death has no meaning. You're not so much dying as being teleported somewhere else, where you have to walk back home and maybe fight something to get your stuff back.
If you have friends, this kind of 'permadeath' has literally no function unless you're all highly irresponsible.
Also, instead of killing you, people who hate you enough will find that it's much more effective to imprison people they dislike.
Oh wait, that's sort of cool. ... Except it kind of has the same function as permadeath and it's kind of more awkward for the imprisoned.
~
People should be able to loot your body while you're incapacitated like they would a chest, by the way.
And I liked everything you said, Raane, about the incapacitated state :smile.gif:
Finally! What did you mean by 'gimmicky soundbites'?
I'm going back to the main bit now
~
If there are people that hate each other they will be fighting forever and nothing will change; nothing will evolve. Two cities fighting -- the people will just come back over and over. A griefer is griefing? He will never stop coming at you (well, unless he gets banned). A thief? Will never stop coming for your ****.
Death should be final and binding. You should be able to threaten people with death and have them **** themselves a little bit.
~
Anyway, as much as you don't want to have a game you paid for define the 'metagame' of playing the game [and I can respect that], I'd still pay many times over for a game where lethality and near-death are exciting things. People won't just throw their lives away, and a life-risking maneuver may leave someone with an actual sense of awe and appreciation.
15 minutes if your body is rescued by friends and buried [expensive materials; body can't be dug up again or you lose the faster respawn]
1 hour is your body is destroyed [cremated]
4 hours if your body is simply left to rot all on its own
I think big differences in time would work out best. I don't know if this sounds good to you at all but I figure I might as well suggest these things to you, to see what you (and others) think.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I want to see forum posts saying "how do i kill dragon" with replies reading "lol"."
---> vede claimed Notch said this (and it is awesome).
[ Dude: there are so many ways to avoid all of those problems. ]
Yeah, lets stand in an obscure hole and do nothing!
This is exciting and fun!
Quote from Droqen »
If there are people that hate each other they will be fighting forever and nothing will change; nothing will evolve. Two cities fighting -- the people will just come back over and over. A griefer is griefing? He will never stop coming at you (well, unless he gets banned). A thief? Will never stop coming for your ****.
And? There's so many games that are built around these type of conflicts, with respawn times equal to about 15-30 seconds, they don't need a completely ludicrous respawn time.
Quote from Droqen »
15 minutes if your body is rescued by friends and buried [expensive materials; body can't be dug up again or you lose the faster respawn]
1 hour is your body is destroyed [cremated]
4 hours if your body is simply left to rot all on its own
What's expensive materials? Diamonds? Gold? Iron? Will your friends waste all that useful and rare material to make you respawn at a reasonable pace? 1 hour is still quite long, not quite as game ruining as 4 hours but still.
My thoughts are a spawn point you craft that looks like a small flag or something. It would only be visible to you so other players would not be able to grief it and would only be there for one respawn. So here is how it would work
1) Craft flag and place it on the ground
2) Die and you would respawn at the flag
3) After on death the flag would be gone and you would have to make another one
4) if you died with out a flag you would be placed in a random location on the map that has been discovered before.
So the flags would have a one time use after that you would have to make another one or if you die would spawn some were random. Not sure on the exact resource uses but would not be anything very expensive but not something very cheap.
With few exceptions.
I like the idea of craftable spawn points, as well as temporary penalties for having died. Perhaps a ressurection sickness that weakens the attacks and doubles the time it takes to mine anything. Also you could temporarily have your max hearts halved.
But perma-death has no place as the default game setting.
I'm not opposed to a hardcore mode, though.
Honestly, this is the best idea I've seen.
Upon joining a server, it would display whether it was set at:
Easy: Upon death, you spawn on your crafted respawn point. You also recieve 1 at your joining of the server. If you don't have one (someone destroyed it, you never placed one, etc), then you spawn within 100? blocks of your death area.
Normal: Upon death, you spawn on your crafted respawn point. You don't start with one. If you don't have one (someone destroyed it, you never placed one, etc), you spawn within 1,000? blocks of your death area.
Hardcore: Upon death, you spawn where you spawned when the server started, E.G., the global respawn.
PVP is not removable.
No exceptions.
and goblin-raider, do we still get single player, or does that count as an 'exception'? :tongue.gif:
I mean PvP shouldn't be an option in MP, its a must have.
I do agree with Notch on making things hard before easy.
Quite a few people have been misinterpreting my use of "permanent death", which is my fault. When I say permanent death, I mean spawning very far away from your old area. I, too, agree that real permanent death is bad.
It would also remove the possibility of spawn camping which I was going to point out in the forums.
.:pizarro:.
There isn't much real difference. The other problem with that, is it automatically inflates the size of the map, which is hard on the server.
I expect the difficulty to be cranked much higher by release, and correspondingly, expect to die relatively often. I admit, hard right now isn't very dangerous, but that should change. If you can't reasonably expect to live for a long time, then extremly strict death penalties are unfair.
Basically, I want the difficulty of the game to come from actually playing the game, not overly harsh penalties for dying. If I can reasonably expect to live for extended periods of time, then the game isn't hard. If it adds a overly strict death penalty, then it is just an annoying game. If it is both hard to survive and has such a strict death penalty, then it is just sadistic. I prefer a game like "I want to be the guy" Where it WILL kill you, OFTEN, but you just go back to the last checkpoint and try again, over a game like "Happ-go-lucky sunshine time", but if you do die, it erases itself from your computer, and prevents you form reinstalling. "I want to be the guy" that deletes your save is utterly sadistic.
Problem being is that as things stand spawning miles away from your home means you've lost it. You'll likely never ever find it again, you've got no map, no idea which direction its in and no gear!
Minecraft is not a game about combat, sure it has it but the onus of gameplay has never been killing people or creatures. Minecraft is all about creativity and exploration.
The idea of 'oh you don't like killing people - go play creative' is just ignorant. I want SMP so i can cooperate with people and build impressive structures with the challenges smp provides. If i wanted to just be creative i'd continue working with z-brush or modelling programs, but i do that all day.
Problems with your death system:
Spawn to far - you'll never find your base.
Server ban - Don't dictate how i play a game i've paid for.
Accidental deaths are too easy to have an oppressively harsh death system.
I'd be in favour of perhaps a system whereby your stuff drops as now then you have a spawn timer. If you die in 10 minutes of that death the spawn timer doubles. If you die in X minutes of that then it doubles again - on and on exponentially.
I've also got no qualms with having to walk a good distance (say 150% to 300%of the max view distance?) back to my original location as long as I've got a pointer telling me i'm going in the right direction.
Perhaps have a scoring system similar to old survival where you gain points for being online and active with big bonuses for being in a place monsters can get you. When you die you lose every last one of your points, perhaps higher points allowing you to purchase titles, lay land claims or such.
Incentivise survival rather than punish accidental death.
Permadeath in Multiplayer should allow you to be saved from hazards by your friends, or even by strangers. I (personally) would not want you to die as easily as you do in SP; there should be some form of intermediary 'not dead yet, but helpless' state where you have an extra 10 or so hearts (beyond the first 10).
tbh it doesn't have to do with making it realistic at all, at least not when I suggested it.
It has to do with putting weight being death to make the world interesting. If death has great power then it will inevitably be a big choice to decide to kill someone. Nobody will want to die [which is as it should be - I can imagine people just killing themselves to get back 'home' easily if they get lost, which is kind of dumb] and many people will actually strive for peace and civilization instead of the game turning into a mediocre "kill whoever you want because nobody gives a ****"-fest.
I would never suggest permanently booting a player off of a server. You could be out for 4-24 hours, far more than long enough that no sane person is going to sit around waiting to join the same server after dying.
If you're going to boot a player to a random part of the map and prevent him/her from getting back home, you might as well do this.
You sure are good at making useful arguments!
I'm sorry, zentaco, but you're not as almighty as your name suggests and you can't just end a discussion by saying it's over.
;___;
Can we please call it something else?
anything else
Hard as it may be to believe it, I really didn't like Diablo II's hardcore mode at all. Or Torchlight's, but that's because it sucked more than anything else.
EDITING TO RESPOND TO RAANE:
1. You make accidental deaths less difficult, especially if you travel in a party. Yes, if you fall into lava, you may be screwed -- but it could be interesting if after losing all of your hearts you have 10 extra hearts that need to be drained before you are truly killed. In this state you may be bleeding out, or you may just be unconscious and require an ally to help you (or if you are in a safe position, you may slowly recover all on your own). If you're living alone or travelling alone in a cave and something bad happens in SINGLE-PLAYER, maybe the game needs to be fair about it. However, if you're doing something incredibly dangerous in multiplayer, bring a friend or two along.
2. "Don't dictate how I play a game I've paid for"? A GAME IS A SET OF RULES, so deal with it.
You have to put two wood blocks together to make four sticks
HEY DON'T DICTATE HOW I PLAY A GAME I'VE PAID FOR I WANNA MAKE A STICK OUT OF A ROCK AND DIRT
Seriously.
Come up with a better argument.
---> vede claimed Notch said this (and it is awesome).
This is so flawed it isn't even funny.
If you are friends with people on your favourite server, then for the most part it will be (or should be) difficult to die.
What'll kill you, unless you go out and try to do something crazy like a swan dive into lava or a solo rush into a mob of creepers?
---> vede claimed Notch said this (and it is awesome).
Fall damage, misplaced water/lava (especially with notch's terrible liquid physics), monsters if you try to do anything but hide in a house at night, mining the wrong spot, trying to make your house anything but four dirt walls and a roof, a player that doesn't like you, a joke gone wrong, the list just keeps building and building.
Basically, you can die from anything at anytime, doesn't matter how many friends you have watching your back.
Besides, a respawn time that long is basically telling me I can't play a game I paid for.
I don't see anything wrong with my argument. I was referfing to gaming vs meta-game. I've not got any problems there being gameplay rules but a temp ban from a server goes beyond gameplay restrictions into the meta-game. It's not stopping me from doing something in the game, it's stopping me from playing the game!
Next time: think before you use strawman arguments and gimmicky soundbites.
I disagree here, gauging from the responses people here they'll kill you as soon as they see you. I'd say 1 in 3 people you meet might want to cooperate. If the most of them find you incapacitated and bleeding out then they'll probably deal the final blow.
That said i do like the incapacitation idea, mandatory time-out is too far though. In games with perma-death, you die and you come back with another character as fast as it takes to make one. I'm not accepting the whole 'join another server argument' the main reason i'm looking forwards to SMP is to play with friends on a server together.
As for incapacitation i actually really like the idea. It's got the nice upshot of allowing cool rescue missions like scaling to the bottom of the crevasse your friend toppled down and patching him up.
I'd be happy to implement incapacitation if it gave you a choice:
A) Wait it out. Gaze at the stars above and watch night turn in to day. Perhaps allow you to move as if crouched and not use any weapons so you can crawl away into a hole to escape roving monsters. Yo drag your stuff with you and after your time-out is up you are able to resume normal work. If a friend gets to you they can provide a splint (wool and 2 sticks?) and you're back in working order.
As an extra you could give players the option to drag you. Which means they move half speed and can drag you out of danger (or roll you over the cliff onto the crashing rocks below)
:cool.gif: Give up. You lie down and die, maybe by automatic means maybe using the above method to crawl up single block inclines to drop off a cliff. All your stuff is lootable instantly possibly exploding from your corpse as now but. You still spawn a good distance away from your last location but you get vague hints about the direction of your last location.
Perhaps as a little extra your corpse summons a skeleton/zombie or another adversary when you approach which forces you to defeat or evade or acts as a monster magnet just it to make this a less attractive (and more atmospheric) option.
Next time, please leave out the attitude mate.
Edit to remove quotation padding
[ Dude: there are so many ways to avoid all of those problems. ]
Raane:
Pretty much everything I've read leads to the conclusion that most people here just want to play creative with materials and monsters. Weird. Maybe I should re-read to see if there are some people I missed.
In any case, the thing I want to do is dissuade people from going around and randomly killing people, because if they do then they're bound to die quickly.
The problem with Minecraft vs. other permadeath games is that it's really easy to build up and plan for death in Minecraft because the world is so free. You can make chests to hold all of your items and build a fort, so that if you die there's really no 'perma' to it. All of your stuff is still your stuff. Death has no meaning. You're not so much dying as being teleported somewhere else, where you have to walk back home and maybe fight something to get your stuff back.
If you have friends, this kind of 'permadeath' has literally no function unless you're all highly irresponsible.
Also, instead of killing you, people who hate you enough will find that it's much more effective to imprison people they dislike.
Oh wait, that's sort of cool. ... Except it kind of has the same function as permadeath and it's kind of more awkward for the imprisoned.
~
People should be able to loot your body while you're incapacitated like they would a chest, by the way.
And I liked everything you said, Raane, about the incapacitated state :smile.gif:
Finally! What did you mean by 'gimmicky soundbites'?
I'm going back to the main bit now
~
If there are people that hate each other they will be fighting forever and nothing will change; nothing will evolve. Two cities fighting -- the people will just come back over and over. A griefer is griefing? He will never stop coming at you (well, unless he gets banned). A thief? Will never stop coming for your ****.
Death should be final and binding. You should be able to threaten people with death and have them **** themselves a little bit.
~
Anyway, as much as you don't want to have a game you paid for define the 'metagame' of playing the game [and I can respect that], I'd still pay many times over for a game where lethality and near-death are exciting things. People won't just throw their lives away, and a life-risking maneuver may leave someone with an actual sense of awe and appreciation.
15 minutes if your body is rescued by friends and buried [expensive materials; body can't be dug up again or you lose the faster respawn]
1 hour is your body is destroyed [cremated]
4 hours if your body is simply left to rot all on its own
I think big differences in time would work out best. I don't know if this sounds good to you at all but I figure I might as well suggest these things to you, to see what you (and others) think.
---> vede claimed Notch said this (and it is awesome).
This is exciting and fun!
And? There's so many games that are built around these type of conflicts, with respawn times equal to about 15-30 seconds, they don't need a completely ludicrous respawn time.
What's expensive materials? Diamonds? Gold? Iron? Will your friends waste all that useful and rare material to make you respawn at a reasonable pace? 1 hour is still quite long, not quite as game ruining as 4 hours but still.
Droqen's idea will not be mandatory but will be an option for servers, which will have a tag saying that death rule is in place.
The servers will be extremely small and probably empty, they might not even exist, but at least Droqen will have what he wants.
1) Craft flag and place it on the ground
2) Die and you would respawn at the flag
3) After on death the flag would be gone and you would have to make another one
4) if you died with out a flag you would be placed in a random location on the map that has been discovered before.
So the flags would have a one time use after that you would have to make another one or if you die would spawn some were random. Not sure on the exact resource uses but would not be anything very expensive but not something very cheap.