There's a lot of good trap ideas there... but I think they need to be tastefully rare. Especially the TNT traps.
Some of the percentages, etc you give seem too common.
No more than 2-3 traps per medium-large dungeon. We already have the mobs to deal with.
Overall, I really like it.
Dungeons in their current state have always been boring and strange.
It would also be cool if, every once in awhile they were near the surface (but not protruding... and there was a cool, decorative stairway down into the dungeon.
Here are some shots of a mock-up I did. This is a simple one... mostly to showcase aesthetic ideas. http://imgur.com/a/Fwt3j (two below, more at link)
Keep in mind, that the torches wouldn't be there, obviously... it's just so you can see.
Also, them coming up to ground could be rare; if people don't like the idea, I mean. Although, I think it makes quite a lot more sense then them being randomly underground with no entrance.
There's a lot of good trap ideas there... but I think they need to be tastefully rare. Especially the TNT traps.
Some of the percentages, etc you give seem too common.
No more than 2-3 traps per medium-large dungeon. We already have the mobs to deal with.
Overall, I really like it.
Dungeons in their current state have always been boring and strange.
It would also be cool if, every once in awhile they were near the surface (but not protruding... and there was a cool, decorative stairway down into the dungeon.
Here are some shots of a mock-up I did. This is a simple one... mostly to showcase aesthetic ideas. http://imgur.com/a/Fwt3j (two below, more at link)
Keep in mind, that the torches wouldn't be there, obviously... it's just so you can see.
Also, them coming up to ground could be rare; if people don't like the idea, I mean. Although, I think it makes quite a lot more sense then them being randomly underground with no entrance.
What about if the TNT traps were made less common so that the gravel pitfalls could take their place? The TNT trap is the only trap that really does a lot of damage and destroys loot. I'm always happy to reconsider, though, if you think more is necessary.
I like your stairway and your dungeon, they both look really good. Someone else actually had the same idea, only desert-themed, a few pages back. I would personally very much like to have surface-protruding dungeons, but that would mean a big change in their location; I'll add a question in the poll about it to see what people think.
Wow, I really like this idea. After all, I think most dungeons aren't just cubes with no entrance. One thing though: what about strongholds? These improvements seem to make dungeons more like strongholds, and paired with more loot they would subtract from the value of finding one. Of course, you wouldn't find an end portal in a dungeon, but that would be the only real plus to finding a stronghold over one of these. So, with that in mind, I think you should come up with improvements to strongholds as well, to balance things out. You could change the title to "Improving dungeons and strongholds" and it'd be fine. Just don't over-do it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I usually have a neutral/undecided standpoint on things. And yes, I am part Swiss.
Wow, I really like this idea. After all, I think most dungeons aren't just cubes with no entrance. One thing though: what about strongholds? These improvements seem to make dungeons more like strongholds, and paired with more loot they would subtract from the value of finding one. Of course, you wouldn't find an end portal in a dungeon, but that would be the only real plus to finding a stronghold over one of these. So, with that in mind, I think you should come up with improvements to strongholds as well, to balance things out. You could change the title to "Improving dungeons and strongholds" and it'd be fine. Just don't over-do it.
Well, what puts (current) strongholds over (current) dungeons? I can't (or won't) put stronghold suggestions in this, because they're not related. It might get labeled as wishlist-y. I hope you come back to this thread and read this, so I can hear what you think.
One thing I can do, however, is give you a link to a great (and still alive) strongholds thread, that can effectively serve in place of my own stronghold ideas: http://www.minecraft...ut-strongholds/
Hi, I like the idea of making them a little more challenging and interesting but I am slightly worried but the possibility of caving/mining becoming over run by vast dungeons. I think that it would be good if the large dungeons were quite rare, maybe only a 1 in 1000 chance of them spawning in a chunk (like a desert well). I also think that the implication of natural trapped chests is nice as they have been added to the game and yet they are not featured in any of the traps. They could have been added to temples. An anvil falling on your head could have a pretty nice effect but as you said they must be extremely damaged. I am sorry but I haven't done the poll as all I got was an error. But I like this.
I'm glad you like the idea and the traps. I also know what you mean about the anvil, but I still think they're worth it.
About your worry that vast dungeons would ruin mining, keep in mind that abandoned mineshafts, caves, and strongholds are quite large in comparison. I don't think dungeons should be all that common, either. Also, when you really look at the dungeons, I don't think they're all that big. Those numbers you have seem a bit too rare for me, but since they're for large dungeons it might work.
Dude, what a mock-up! The entrance is ominous, but not so obvious as to be easily discovered in most biomes. Also, the pillar and wall-niche designs that you've employed are simple and elegant - they add a lot of flavor to dungeons! /Definitely/ include those in your large dungeon model, CodenameDuchess.
Dude, what a mock-up! The entrance is ominous, but not so obvious as to be easily discovered in most biomes. Also, the pillar and wall-niche designs that you've employed are simple and elegant - they add a lot of flavor to dungeons! /Definitely/ include those in your large dungeon model, CodenameDuchess.
Oh man, you are too good. I can't thank you enough.
I completely agree about Already Zuko's designs, too. I'll start working on a large and different dungeon soon, although I get the feeling that it's going to make some more people unhappy about the size. I don't suppose you've got any thoughts on that?
I didn't fins whether if it was the intent, but with these many sections I don't suppose a filter would randomly generate these dungeons? It would be quite interesting if it was a different lay-out every single one you found, it would increase the amount of exploration-material through the roof!
I didn't fins whether if it was the intent, but with these many sections I don't suppose a filter would randomly generate these dungeons? It would be quite interesting if it was a different lay-out every single one you found, it would increase the amount of exploration-material through the roof!
Btw, support, support all the way!
That's exactly what I was planning! I don't want all the dungeons to be the same! Similar, pehaps (if you're keeping it small it's hard not to be), but not the same.
Thanks for the support!
You'll probably get some flack for it, but I personally appreciate the size we're thinking for the large one. I think the comment we've gotten most often about the large-sized dungeons is "make sure it's rare enough," and I couldn't agree more. Then, on top of balancing the idea, it'll legitimately be a rare and worthwhile find, a gem among the caverns.
In answer to some other feedback that's come in:
It'll get torn up by caverns.
This depends entirely on how the terrain generation works, and it could be reworked if this idea were seen to be valuable enough. Furthermore, the large-sized dungeons are /much/ more compact than mineshafts and strongholds, which generate with many arms of passages webbing out in every direction. Since the proposed dungeons share many walls, the shape of dungeons is more centralized, which would be easy to work around.
There's too much TNT.
As you may remember I used to be in this camp, but I really think that the thought you've put into dungeons balances this idea, especially since it's only one unit of TNT (as opposed to the 9 in desert temples) and it's embedded in the ground. Really, it won't do much more than make a small pitfall and damage the player slightly - the real aim is to destroy loot (if the player isn't careful) and shake him up a bit while he's under pressure from the spawners.
They're too dangerous now.
Well, I don't really agree. In my opinion, the dungeons that currently exist in vanilla minecraft are a bit too difficult to find, but also too easy to conquer once found. The increased size and danger of these dungeons is really what improves them, especially with Jeb upping the loot found in them.
Were there any other pieces of feedback that you found to be particularly tough? These are the main ones that I think are mostly non-issues.
Well, what puts (current) strongholds over (current) dungeons? I can't (or won't) put stronghold suggestions in this, because they're not related. It might get labeled as wishlist-y. I hope you come back to this thread and read this, so I can hear what you think.
One thing I can do, however, is give you a link to a great (and still alive) strongholds thread, that can effectively serve in place of my own stronghold ideas: [url="http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1701124-lets-talk-about-strongholds/"]http://www.minecraft...ut-strongholds/[/url]
Thanks for the input, it's always nice to hear.
I was asking what you would do with strongholds /given/ that these new dungeons would be added to balance things, as they are very similar to each other, and I'm sure they're not suppossed to be the same. I do thank you for the link to that thread, though. Perhaps you could put it in the OP post and say,"And since these dungeons are similar to strongholds, it would be nice if strongholds were updated, too, to balance things out. I won't go into detail with that, but you can look at this thread->http://www.minecraft...ut-strongholds/[/url]" or something to that effect. Just my two cents.
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I usually have a neutral/undecided standpoint on things. And yes, I am part Swiss.
I think that's it, really. I'll emphasize the rareness of the larger dungeons compared to the others. Also, good job refuting the arguments, I'll put them in a spoiler in the topic and add my bit (if I have anything).
The difficulty one is probably the trickiest, because it really depends on the person. I guess the only thing to say is that you can just build a bunker and beat it that way. There is also the "it's like a stronghold" argument, which I have only seen from one person (look down), but that's not that big of a deal.
Hey, don't we get designated "hot" after 100 posts?
I was asking what you would do with strongholds /given/ that these new dungeons would be added to balance things, as they are very similar to each other, and I'm sure they're not suppossed to be the same. I do thank you for the link to that thread, though. Perhaps you could put it in the OP post and say,"And since these dungeons are similar to strongholds, it would be nice if strongholds were updated, too, to balance things out. I won't go into detail with that, but you can look at this thread->[url="http://www.minecraft...ut-strongholds/"]http://www.minecraft...ut-strongholds/[/url][/url]" or something to that effect. Just my two cents.
Great minds think alike, it seems (ha ha). I've already sent a message to the "owner" of the thread asking him if that was all right. I haven't heard back yet, though.
I admit that dungeons and strongholds do have some similarities now, I'm just not too worried about it. I mean, strongholds have stone bricks and dungeons have moss stone! What more differences could you want? On a more serious note, thanks for the input, and if you have any more it is certainly welcome, especially if you could suggest differences for strongholds!
Hey, don't we get designated "hot" after 100 posts?
Gosh, I hope so.
I think that Strongholds and Large Dungeons would be different given that, even though the large dungeon is big by dungeons standards, Large Dungeons as proposed here are still nowhere near as large as strongholds.
Also, bit of an afterthought: do you want help with the large dungeon? If you can link the savefile somewhere, we can tag-team it. Likewise, regardless of whether or not you want help, we could link the savefile in here if people want to download it after we have finished products, and people can derp around in the dungeons if they'd like, just to see more what they're like.
I think that Strongholds and Large Dungeons would be different given that, even though the large dungeon is big by dungeons standards, Large Dungeons as proposed here are still nowhere near as large as strongholds.
Also, bit of an afterthought: do you want help with the large dungeon? If you can link the savefile somewhere, we can tag-team it. Likewise, regardless of whether or not you want help, we could link the savefile in here if people want to download it after we have finished products, and people can derp around in the dungeons if they'd like, just to see more what they're like.
Well, I was wrong. Your post, the 99th, made it "hot". Hopefully that attracts more people.
I would love some help with the dungeon! They do get kind of monotonous... I'm going to be out for a few hours right now, though, so do you want to start it? If not, I can later. I'll also see if I can upload my dungeons here.
True, the traps are a source of wealth, and not a negligible one either. I was thinking gold and lapis could be added, too, though maybe not diamonds. I'm not sure about the horse armor to match the difficulty; why not just keep it the same, but since bigger dungeons have many more chests you get better odds?
Fair enough. But why not diamonds? It would be pretty rare, and at max there would only be one in a chest. In abandoned mine shafts, you can find diamonds in the chests there without even having to fight mobs or spawners. Anyway, just a suggestion :).
Also, on page one, someone mentioned the idea of a boss/miniboss for some dungeons.
Maybe, the boss won't be a mob, but a better spawner?
Lets say the "boss" spawner would get its own separate room, and would spawn chain mail armored skeleton archers. They would be difficult to fight, but it would add a way to get chain mail armor ingame without hacking. Also, this spawner would drop a lot more xp than usual spawners when broken.
This is just a clarification:
Will this change cave spider dungeons, or just normal ones. Because I think cave spider dungeons are fine as they are
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Retired StaffReally? Great! I'll keep that in mind.
Thank you. You'll be happy to know I followed your link and commented.
Some of the percentages, etc you give seem too common.
No more than 2-3 traps per medium-large dungeon. We already have the mobs to deal with.
Overall, I really like it.
Dungeons in their current state have always been boring and strange.
It would also be cool if, every once in awhile they were near the surface (but not protruding... and there was a cool, decorative stairway down into the dungeon.
Here are some shots of a mock-up I did. This is a simple one... mostly to showcase aesthetic ideas.
http://imgur.com/a/Fwt3j (two below, more at link)
Keep in mind, that the torches wouldn't be there, obviously... it's just so you can see.
Also, them coming up to ground could be rare; if people don't like the idea, I mean. Although, I think it makes quite a lot more sense then them being randomly underground with no entrance.
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Retired StaffWhat about if the TNT traps were made less common so that the gravel pitfalls could take their place? The TNT trap is the only trap that really does a lot of damage and destroys loot. I'm always happy to reconsider, though, if you think more is necessary.
I like your stairway and your dungeon, they both look really good. Someone else actually had the same idea, only desert-themed, a few pages back. I would personally very much like to have surface-protruding dungeons, but that would mean a big change in their location; I'll add a question in the poll about it to see what people think.
Mind if I copy your decoration and design?
I usually have a neutral/undecided standpoint on things. And yes, I am part Swiss.
Not at all ;D
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Retired StaffThanks, I'll try modifying my dungeons using your ideas, and if anyone asks about above-ground dungeons I'll just quote your post.
Well, what puts (current) strongholds over (current) dungeons? I can't (or won't) put stronghold suggestions in this, because they're not related. It might get labeled as wishlist-y. I hope you come back to this thread and read this, so I can hear what you think.
One thing I can do, however, is give you a link to a great (and still alive) strongholds thread, that can effectively serve in place of my own stronghold ideas: http://www.minecraft...ut-strongholds/
Thanks for the input, it's always nice to hear.
I'm glad you like the idea and the traps. I also know what you mean about the anvil, but I still think they're worth it.
About your worry that vast dungeons would ruin mining, keep in mind that abandoned mineshafts, caves, and strongholds are quite large in comparison. I don't think dungeons should be all that common, either. Also, when you really look at the dungeons, I don't think they're all that big. Those numbers you have seem a bit too rare for me, but since they're for large dungeons it might work.
Dude, what a mock-up! The entrance is ominous, but not so obvious as to be easily discovered in most biomes. Also, the pillar and wall-niche designs that you've employed are simple and elegant - they add a lot of flavor to dungeons! /Definitely/ include those in your large dungeon model, CodenameDuchess.
Also... Cross your fingers!
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Retired StaffOh man, you are too good. I can't thank you enough.
I completely agree about Already Zuko's designs, too. I'll start working on a large and different dungeon soon, although I get the feeling that it's going to make some more people unhappy about the size. I don't suppose you've got any thoughts on that?
Btw, support, support all the way!
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Retired StaffThat's exactly what I was planning! I don't want all the dungeons to be the same! Similar, pehaps (if you're keeping it small it's hard not to be), but not the same.
Thanks for the support!
In answer to some other feedback that's come in:
It'll get torn up by caverns.
This depends entirely on how the terrain generation works, and it could be reworked if this idea were seen to be valuable enough. Furthermore, the large-sized dungeons are /much/ more compact than mineshafts and strongholds, which generate with many arms of passages webbing out in every direction. Since the proposed dungeons share many walls, the shape of dungeons is more centralized, which would be easy to work around.
There's too much TNT.
As you may remember I used to be in this camp, but I really think that the thought you've put into dungeons balances this idea, especially since it's only one unit of TNT (as opposed to the 9 in desert temples) and it's embedded in the ground. Really, it won't do much more than make a small pitfall and damage the player slightly - the real aim is to destroy loot (if the player isn't careful) and shake him up a bit while he's under pressure from the spawners.
They're too dangerous now.
Well, I don't really agree. In my opinion, the dungeons that currently exist in vanilla minecraft are a bit too difficult to find, but also too easy to conquer once found. The increased size and danger of these dungeons is really what improves them, especially with Jeb upping the loot found in them.
Were there any other pieces of feedback that you found to be particularly tough? These are the main ones that I think are mostly non-issues.
I was asking what you would do with strongholds /given/ that these new dungeons would be added to balance things, as they are very similar to each other, and I'm sure they're not suppossed to be the same. I do thank you for the link to that thread, though. Perhaps you could put it in the OP post and say,"And since these dungeons are similar to strongholds, it would be nice if strongholds were updated, too, to balance things out. I won't go into detail with that, but you can look at this thread->http://www.minecraft...ut-strongholds/[/url]" or something to that effect. Just my two cents.
I usually have a neutral/undecided standpoint on things. And yes, I am part Swiss.
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Retired StaffThe difficulty one is probably the trickiest, because it really depends on the person. I guess the only thing to say is that you can just build a bunker and beat it that way. There is also the "it's like a stronghold" argument, which I have only seen from one person (look down), but that's not that big of a deal.
Hey, don't we get designated "hot" after 100 posts?
Great minds think alike, it seems (ha ha). I've already sent a message to the "owner" of the thread asking him if that was all right. I haven't heard back yet, though.
I admit that dungeons and strongholds do have some similarities now, I'm just not too worried about it. I mean, strongholds have stone bricks and dungeons have moss stone! What more differences could you want? On a more serious note, thanks for the input, and if you have any more it is certainly welcome, especially if you could suggest differences for strongholds!
Gosh, I hope so.
I think that Strongholds and Large Dungeons would be different given that, even though the large dungeon is big by dungeons standards, Large Dungeons as proposed here are still nowhere near as large as strongholds.
Also, bit of an afterthought: do you want help with the large dungeon? If you can link the savefile somewhere, we can tag-team it. Likewise, regardless of whether or not you want help, we could link the savefile in here if people want to download it after we have finished products, and people can derp around in the dungeons if they'd like, just to see more what they're like.
By the way, have you seen this yet?
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Retired StaffWell, I was wrong. Your post, the 99th, made it "hot". Hopefully that attracts more people.
I would love some help with the dungeon! They do get kind of monotonous... I'm going to be out for a few hours right now, though, so do you want to start it? If not, I can later. I'll also see if I can upload my dungeons here.
Some things to consider for large dungeons when you get back: how many rooms, how many passages/dead ends, how many chests?
Fair enough. But why not diamonds? It would be pretty rare, and at max there would only be one in a chest. In abandoned mine shafts, you can find diamonds in the chests there without even having to fight mobs or spawners. Anyway, just a suggestion :).
Also, on page one, someone mentioned the idea of a boss/miniboss for some dungeons.
Maybe, the boss won't be a mob, but a better spawner?
Lets say the "boss" spawner would get its own separate room, and would spawn chain mail armored skeleton archers. They would be difficult to fight, but it would add a way to get chain mail armor ingame without hacking. Also, this spawner would drop a lot more xp than usual spawners when broken.
This is just a clarification:
Will this change cave spider dungeons, or just normal ones. Because I think cave spider dungeons are fine as they are
I don't think that dungeons can contain cave spiders (I could be wrong). Are you referring to abandoned mineshafts?
Yes, sorry for the confusion. I refer to their spider web spawner rooms as dungeons.