It would still be a challenge. Imagine trying to shoot something that 1- teleports - you can't look at and 3- has twice the health of every regular mob. Also, there's still incentive to kill them with a sword because bows can't have looting.
I would even advocate buffing them in other areas - making them maintain agro when they get hurt by environmental damage for instance. That would make them a lot harder, as it is fire and water render them no threat at all.
It wouldn't really be a challenge as your first shot cuts their HP by about 1/4, making them much easier to deal with up close. Plus, you can always lay down a Water block with a Bucket, stand in it, and keep shooting them or throwing potions every time they get close. That is what makes using a Bow or Splash Potions unfair.
However, I am a man of compromise and I have a solution I would like to throw out there. Perhaps Endermen can only get shot by a bow if they are NOT already aggro'd. Meaning they will teleport no matter what if an arrow is about to hit them if:
You have looked at them so they will attack when you look away, but aren't attacking yet
They are actively trying to kill you
That would make them slightly less OP as it would limit the amount of damage you can do to one shot from your Bow, period. It also adds challenge because you would not be able to use this up close. Because of the way the Bow arcs, the farther an enemy is the more you need to aim over the enemy's head to compensate for gravity. That means you can only use this on Endermen if they are far enough away where you can aim over their head (because you never look directly at them). In any other situation where they are aggro'd, they will detect if the arrow would hit them as soon as the bow is fired, so even if you are right next to them you can't hit them with a Bow if they are aggro'd.
Potions are a bit harder to work with, but follows the same theory. With a Splash Potion, you can only hit them directly by standing at a distance and throwing upward, compensating for gravity similar to the Bow. With the Splash Potion's reduced range, slower speed, and AoE capability, there is a high chance that getting a direct hit like this would also affect the person who threw it. If you do not want a direct hit and will settle for splash damage (to protect yourself from splash damage by throwing it farther or behind the Enderman), you can throw it next to the Enderman, assuring a hit but never a direct hit. Similar to a Bow, if he is aggro'd on you in any way, it will teleport as soon as you throw a Splash Potion anywhere where it would affect it.
You forgot one thing about it maintaining aggro when damaged by the environment. If they just maintain aggro, they would continuously run into the hazard until they die. If they are to maintain aggro, they should move to the nearest safe place and enter the same waiting phase when you stare at them.
So if you stand in Water and aggro it, it will run to the edge of the Water and stay aggro'd, so you can't just lure it to the edge to shoot it to death with the Bow or a Splash Potion (with my proposed compromise that is, meaning if it is aggro'd it teleports if you try a ranged attack). It will stay aggro'd until you die or it dies, but it will never hurt itself by running into the Water. It will stand there until you shoot at it (in which case it teleports to a safe area and then returns to the edge of the Water), the Water is removed (it would then attack), or it can find a path to you that isn't in a hazard. That would make so it pathfinds around other hazards like Fire.
With that in effect, as well as my compromise, it would limit you to a single Splash Potion or shot from the Bow, and only if you have the skill to arc your shot in a way where it isn't aggro'd until after it is hit. After that, it is basically impervious to Bows and Splash Potions. The OP gets what they want in some regard (a first strike is better than nothing) and the Enderman still has the throne of the most challenging non-boss mob.
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"Your first sentence should have been 'I don't like the ability for Endermen to dodge ranged attacks because that makes things difficult for me.' Instead of that 'doesn't make sense" stuff...'
No, I can't think of a single situation where with would make things easier. Taking out endermen when you plan to engage is really easy already, and fighting them in an unplanned situation would be just as hard with a bow. My main complaint is that endermen DO NOT dodge attacks. They DEFLECT attacks, and then immediately teleport away. Their AI isn't actually smart enough to dodge, so I don't see why it should be treated as if they dodge.
Minecraft YouTuber (DroidFreak36), and admin of the FreakCraft server (whitelisted, available to Minecraft YouTubers), now with an FTB version running a custom modpack called 'MuricaCraft (Where we aim to exploit the natural environment as much as possible, all in good fun of course).
ok, when the enderman is in the situation they CAN teleport and you shoot arrow to him like a ediot, he will teleport away, no change
when the enderman is in the situation he CAN'T teleport(i wonder if they are any), they will get hit by arrow or splash potion, then teleport infront of you and kill you
problem solve
You seem to be the only person here that gets what the OP is saying. It's not that they shouldn't dodge projectiles by teleporting, it's that they should take damage from projectiles when they can't teleport.
"Your first sentence should have been 'I don't like the ability for Endermen to dodge ranged attacks because that makes things difficult for me.' Instead of that 'doesn't make sense" stuff...'
No, I can't think of a single situation where with would make things easier. Taking out endermen when you plan to engage is really easy already, and fighting them in an unplanned situation would be just as hard with a bow. My main complaint is that endermen DO NOT dodge attacks. They DEFLECT attacks, and then immediately teleport away. Their AI isn't actually smart enough to dodge, so I don't see why it should be treated as if they dodge.
But when they evade a projectile harmful to them.. does it not count as a dodge?
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"But when they evade a projectile harmful to them.. does it not count as a dodge?"
Yes, if they evade the projectile before it hits them. That is not the case. They get hit by the projectile, then that hit is discounted and they teleport. They always get hit, but the hit never counts because it is assumed that the teleport avoided it.
Here's an easy test to confirm - go into creative mode and shoot an enderman point-blank with a bow and listen. Now fire an arrow into blank space and compare the sound. There's a major difference (besides the teleport sound)- you can actually hear the arrow hit the enderman. That's because the game actually registers the hit, but the enderman doesn't take damage and teleports on impact. Not before impact, ON IMPACT. They get hit, and then they teleport.
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No. No mob in Minecraft, but the Wither, is OP. It makes endermen what they were made to be: a semi-rare, hard mob. Their avoidence of any projectile allows them to hurt youunless you place water/lava, or luckily hit him and keep him away.
How is the Wither OP...
Anyway, Enderman are already easy to kill, let's not make that easier.
If you were an enderman, you'd teleport away if you could. Now if they actually can't telelport away, they should take the damage or effects. But you gain a bit too much of an advantage if you can lay a first arrow on an endermen from the safety of your sniper-tower. They're supposed to be challenging, and they do a pretty decent job while still being possible to defeat.
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STOP TALKING ABOUT ME WANTING TO MAKE ENDERMEN EASIER. I DON'T. THIS DOESN'T. SHUT UP AND ACTUALLY READ WHAT I POST BEFORE YOU MAKE YOURSELF LOOK LIKE AN IDIOT.
This is about a problem with the way the game works- endermen can't dodge, but they don't take damage. You only think they can dodge. I refer you to my last post, which clearly none of you read (I'm talking to you, rikoLash, SouthernPotato, and Wircea). Endermen DO get hit by arrows, you can actually hear them get hit. They just take no damage and throw the arrow along the path it was taking.
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Minecraft YouTuber (DroidFreak36), and admin of the FreakCraft server (whitelisted, available to Minecraft YouTubers), now with an FTB version running a custom modpack called 'MuricaCraft (Where we aim to exploit the natural environment as much as possible, all in good fun of course).
STOP TALKING ABOUT ME WANTING TO MAKE ENDERMEN EASIER. I DON'T. THIS DOESN'T. SHUT UP AND ACTUALLY READ WHAT I POST BEFORE YOU MAKE YOURSELF LOOK LIKE AN IDIOT.
This is about a problem with the way the game works- endermen can't dodge, but they don't take damage. You only think they can dodge. I refer you to my last post, which clearly none of you read (I'm talking to you, rikoLash, SouthernPotato, and Wircea). Endermen DO get hit by arrows, you can actually hear them get hit. They just take no damage and throw the arrow along the path it was taking.
Even if you wanted to not make endermen easier,making they get hit by arrows when they cant' teleport make it a lot easier,you can just charge your bow and hit it at point blank and deal huge amounts of damage in it killing them a lot easier(I got your point,through the way you're saying make them easier).
Badprenup's way is a lot more balanced.
if placed in a situation where they cannot teleport, the arrow will bounce off or the slash potion will inflict knockback but no effect.
The one sentence that everyone ignores is the one that should get the most attention. Why do they teleport away from arrows and potions that don't even hurt them?
Basically, what _DroidFreak_ said - they don't dodge the attacks. They're unaffected by them, and they teleport when they're hit. There is a simple fix. Just make endermen teleport when there's an arrow or harmful splash potion near them (within three blocks, for instance). That way, they'll actually be avoiding the attack, at the expense of (possibly) not being able to know who attacked them. This would fix just about everything, and make the endermen much more realistic. For those of you who are about to slap me with "Minecraft isn't realistic, we should remove _____ because it's not in real life", consider how it would be if there were things in real life that teleport, pick up dirt, and murder people who make eye contact. The way they'd behave is (more or less) how they should be in Minecraft.
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The one sentence that everyone ignores is the one that should get the most attention. Why do they teleport away from arrows and potions that don't even hurt them?
Basically, what _DroidFreak_ said - they don't dodge the attacks. They're unaffected by them, and they teleport when they're hit. There is a simple fix. Just make endermen teleport when there's an arrow or harmful splash potion near them (within three blocks, for instance). That way, they'll actually be avoiding the attack, at the expense of (possibly) not being able to know who attacked them. This would fix just about everything, and make the endermen much more realistic. For those of you who are about to slap me with "Minecraft isn't realistic, we should remove _____ because it's not in real life", consider how it would be if there were things in real life that teleport, pick up dirt, and murder people who make eye contact. The way they'd behave is (more or less) how they should be in Minecraft.
I will say right now that I don't have a source for this, and this is just my assumption based on how I have seen Endermen act against Arrows and Splash potions. So I have no guarantee but I think it is a logical explanation.
I have never once seen an Enderman not teleport when someone tries to hit it with an arrow or a Splash Potion. Even if it is a situation where they can't dodge faster than they get hit (causing the problem the OP has with them), they still teleport after the arrow or potion bounces off them. It is my belief that they are programmed to always dodge ranged attacks, however their AI isn't fast enough to react to the player in 100% of the situations.
Notch fully intended them to be able to dodge any and all ranged attacks, but was aware of the fact that their AI wasn't always fast enough. Therefore he made them immune to ranged attacks, but has their AI set to try and dodge anyways. That creates the illusion of them dodging all ranged attacks with a sort of "sixth sense", but also keeps them from taking damage in case of a lag spike or other reason it couldn't react fast enough.
Therefore I think they work entirely as intended, but "as intended" is just a lazy fix until their AI could be improved. That's just my theory though. I already gave a possible fix that should make everyone moderately happy, and your idea would work too.
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If we're going for realism, we should remove endermen entirely, because they don't actually exist IRL.
And Creepers and skeletons and zombies and spiders the size of boulders and silverfish the size of your head and the ability to drink infinite amounts of water and the ability to heal quickly and being able to fall so far and squids the size of dogs and the ability to jump a meter in the air and all crafting and enderpearls and being able to make a bigger diamond out of smaller diamonds and smelting and music discs...
Try this: diamond armor, diamond sword w/ sharpness 4, bow w/ power 4, some instant health potions (4-6), some enchanted golden apples (2), some strength potions (1-2), regen potions (3). Fight ends in about 3-5 minutes. You are victorious.
Thank you Randomwaffle23, someone who actually understands.
Badprenup, it isn't an issue of endermen sometimes not being able to dodge fast enough. They never dodge. As I stated in a previous post, "Go into creative mode and shoot an enderman point-blank with a bow and listen. Now fire an arrow into blank space and compare the sound. There's a major difference (besides the teleport sound)- you can actually hear the arrow hit the enderman. That's because the game actually registers the hit, but the enderman doesn't take damage and teleports on impact. Not before impact, ON IMPACT. They get hit, and then they teleport."
Endermen don't EVER teleport before they get hit. They get hit, they take no damage, and they teleport, in that order.
Moriki, you don't even need that much gear to take on a Wither. Just spawn him in a 2x1 tunnel and retreat down the tunnel where he can't hit you. Gear required - iron sword and armor. Everything else is optional to speed up the fight.
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Minecraft YouTuber (DroidFreak36), and admin of the FreakCraft server (whitelisted, available to Minecraft YouTubers), now with an FTB version running a custom modpack called 'MuricaCraft (Where we aim to exploit the natural environment as much as possible, all in good fun of course).
Thank you Randomwaffle23, someone who actually understands.
Badprenup, it isn't an issue of endermen sometimes not being able to dodge fast enough. They never dodge. As I stated in a previous post, "Go into creative mode and shoot an enderman point-blank with a bow and listen. Now fire an arrow into blank space and compare the sound. There's a major difference (besides the teleport sound)- you can actually hear the arrow hit the enderman. That's because the game actually registers the hit, but the enderman doesn't take damage and teleports on impact. Not before impact, ON IMPACT. They get hit, and then they teleport."
Endermen don't EVER teleport before they get hit. They get hit, they take no damage, and they teleport, in that order.
Moriki, you don't even need that much gear to take on a Wither. Just spawn him in a 2x1 tunnel and retreat down the tunnel where he can't hit you. Gear required - iron sword and armor. Everything else is optional to speed up the fight.
Ah. I would edit your Original post with this. Now I support this.
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I don't think enderman should be affected by potions, whether or not they can teleport or not. It's part of what makes them scarier than other mobs.
And the arrow thing, it's coded so that it hits the enderman, but it teleports away and takes no damage, because it'd be too hard to code otherwise. How would the game be able to tell if the enderman is in the arrows path?
I see what this post has turned into. A lot of people are only now finding out what the OP meant. It's all very fun, but is this something that should be in vanilla? No more immunity? Endermen may have adapted to a higher form of protection where Nether wart enhanced potions, and arrows can no longer affect them. We have to ask the expert on this, now where is Slenderman's phone number...
How in the...
Endermen are too OP? They're slightly harder than zombies, just hack at their feet so they don't teleport and they become nothing more than a zombie that you have to look at the ground to fight. On hard, with no armor, you can fight two at once with a stone sword if you need to. Absolutely 0 support. Don't make Minecraft mobs easier than they already are.
It wouldn't really be a challenge as your first shot cuts their HP by about 1/4, making them much easier to deal with up close. Plus, you can always lay down a Water block with a Bucket, stand in it, and keep shooting them or throwing potions every time they get close. That is what makes using a Bow or Splash Potions unfair.
However, I am a man of compromise and I have a solution I would like to throw out there. Perhaps Endermen can only get shot by a bow if they are NOT already aggro'd. Meaning they will teleport no matter what if an arrow is about to hit them if:
Potions are a bit harder to work with, but follows the same theory. With a Splash Potion, you can only hit them directly by standing at a distance and throwing upward, compensating for gravity similar to the Bow. With the Splash Potion's reduced range, slower speed, and AoE capability, there is a high chance that getting a direct hit like this would also affect the person who threw it. If you do not want a direct hit and will settle for splash damage (to protect yourself from splash damage by throwing it farther or behind the Enderman), you can throw it next to the Enderman, assuring a hit but never a direct hit. Similar to a Bow, if he is aggro'd on you in any way, it will teleport as soon as you throw a Splash Potion anywhere where it would affect it.
You forgot one thing about it maintaining aggro when damaged by the environment. If they just maintain aggro, they would continuously run into the hazard until they die. If they are to maintain aggro, they should move to the nearest safe place and enter the same waiting phase when you stare at them.
So if you stand in Water and aggro it, it will run to the edge of the Water and stay aggro'd, so you can't just lure it to the edge to shoot it to death with the Bow or a Splash Potion (with my proposed compromise that is, meaning if it is aggro'd it teleports if you try a ranged attack). It will stay aggro'd until you die or it dies, but it will never hurt itself by running into the Water. It will stand there until you shoot at it (in which case it teleports to a safe area and then returns to the edge of the Water), the Water is removed (it would then attack), or it can find a path to you that isn't in a hazard. That would make so it pathfinds around other hazards like Fire.
With that in effect, as well as my compromise, it would limit you to a single Splash Potion or shot from the Bow, and only if you have the skill to arc your shot in a way where it isn't aggro'd until after it is hit. After that, it is basically impervious to Bows and Splash Potions. The OP gets what they want in some regard (a first strike is better than nothing) and the Enderman still has the throne of the most challenging non-boss mob.
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No, I can't think of a single situation where with would make things easier. Taking out endermen when you plan to engage is really easy already, and fighting them in an unplanned situation would be just as hard with a bow. My main complaint is that endermen DO NOT dodge attacks. They DEFLECT attacks, and then immediately teleport away. Their AI isn't actually smart enough to dodge, so I don't see why it should be treated as if they dodge.
You seem to be the only person here that gets what the OP is saying. It's not that they shouldn't dodge projectiles by teleporting, it's that they should take damage from projectiles when they can't teleport.
Yes, if they evade the projectile before it hits them. That is not the case. They get hit by the projectile, then that hit is discounted and they teleport. They always get hit, but the hit never counts because it is assumed that the teleport avoided it.
Here's an easy test to confirm - go into creative mode and shoot an enderman point-blank with a bow and listen. Now fire an arrow into blank space and compare the sound. There's a major difference (besides the teleport sound)- you can actually hear the arrow hit the enderman. That's because the game actually registers the hit, but the enderman doesn't take damage and teleports on impact. Not before impact, ON IMPACT. They get hit, and then they teleport.
How is the Wither OP...
Anyway, Enderman are already easy to kill, let's not make that easier.
This is about a problem with the way the game works- endermen can't dodge, but they don't take damage. You only think they can dodge. I refer you to my last post, which clearly none of you read (I'm talking to you, rikoLash, SouthernPotato, and Wircea). Endermen DO get hit by arrows, you can actually hear them get hit. They just take no damage and throw the arrow along the path it was taking.
Even if you wanted to not make endermen easier,making they get hit by arrows when they cant' teleport make it a lot easier,you can just charge your bow and hit it at point blank and deal huge amounts of damage in it killing them a lot easier(I got your point,through the way you're saying make them easier).
Badprenup's way is a lot more balanced.
No Support!
The one sentence that everyone ignores is the one that should get the most attention. Why do they teleport away from arrows and potions that don't even hurt them?
Basically, what _DroidFreak_ said - they don't dodge the attacks. They're unaffected by them, and they teleport when they're hit.
There is a simple fix. Just make endermen teleport when there's an arrow or harmful splash potion near them (within three blocks, for instance). That way, they'll actually be avoiding the attack, at the expense of (possibly) not being able to know who attacked them. This would fix just about everything, and make the endermen much more realistic.
For those of you who are about to slap me with "Minecraft isn't realistic, we should remove _____ because it's not in real life", consider how it would be if there were things in real life that teleport, pick up dirt, and murder people who make eye contact. The way they'd behave is (more or less) how they should be in Minecraft.
I will say right now that I don't have a source for this, and this is just my assumption based on how I have seen Endermen act against Arrows and Splash potions. So I have no guarantee but I think it is a logical explanation.
I have never once seen an Enderman not teleport when someone tries to hit it with an arrow or a Splash Potion. Even if it is a situation where they can't dodge faster than they get hit (causing the problem the OP has with them), they still teleport after the arrow or potion bounces off them. It is my belief that they are programmed to always dodge ranged attacks, however their AI isn't fast enough to react to the player in 100% of the situations.
Notch fully intended them to be able to dodge any and all ranged attacks, but was aware of the fact that their AI wasn't always fast enough. Therefore he made them immune to ranged attacks, but has their AI set to try and dodge anyways. That creates the illusion of them dodging all ranged attacks with a sort of "sixth sense", but also keeps them from taking damage in case of a lag spike or other reason it couldn't react fast enough.
Therefore I think they work entirely as intended, but "as intended" is just a lazy fix until their AI could be improved. That's just my theory though. I already gave a possible fix that should make everyone moderately happy, and your idea would work too.
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And Creepers and skeletons and zombies and spiders the size of boulders and silverfish the size of your head and the ability to drink infinite amounts of water and the ability to heal quickly and being able to fall so far and squids the size of dogs and the ability to jump a meter in the air and all crafting and enderpearls and being able to make a bigger diamond out of smaller diamonds and smelting and music discs...
Try this: diamond armor, diamond sword w/ sharpness 4, bow w/ power 4, some instant health potions (4-6), some enchanted golden apples (2), some strength potions (1-2), regen potions (3). Fight ends in about 3-5 minutes. You are victorious.
Badprenup, it isn't an issue of endermen sometimes not being able to dodge fast enough. They never dodge. As I stated in a previous post, "Go into creative mode and shoot an enderman point-blank with a bow and listen. Now fire an arrow into blank space and compare the sound. There's a major difference (besides the teleport sound)- you can actually hear the arrow hit the enderman. That's because the game actually registers the hit, but the enderman doesn't take damage and teleports on impact. Not before impact, ON IMPACT. They get hit, and then they teleport."
Endermen don't EVER teleport before they get hit. They get hit, they take no damage, and they teleport, in that order.
Moriki, you don't even need that much gear to take on a Wither. Just spawn him in a 2x1 tunnel and retreat down the tunnel where he can't hit you. Gear required - iron sword and armor. Everything else is optional to speed up the fight.
Ah. I would edit your Original post with this. Now I support this.
And the arrow thing, it's coded so that it hits the enderman, but it teleports away and takes no damage, because it'd be too hard to code otherwise. How would the game be able to tell if the enderman is in the arrows path?
Endermen are too OP? They're slightly harder than zombies, just hack at their feet so they don't teleport and they become nothing more than a zombie that you have to look at the ground to fight. On hard, with no armor, you can fight two at once with a stone sword if you need to. Absolutely 0 support. Don't make Minecraft mobs easier than they already are.
i feel that enderman should be able to be hit by arrows if they have nowhere else to teleport to - arrows bouncing off them is just stupid.