Minecraft Forums

Quote from Master_Hill_

Actually, you only move in such a manner in the Nether because of its odd ties to Overworld space. If the Nether-as-core theory were true, it would end at the point equivalent to the Overworld's edge. However, it is possible to continue to the same distance in the Nether before you reach the border as in the Overworld, which would place you three times past the Overworld's edge were you to teleport back directly. As this shows, the Nether isn't actually physically connected to the Overworld, but rather causes a physical displacement when returning to the Overworld via portal travel.

Most evidence (not derived from limitations of software) suggests that the Minecraft developers envisaged a planetary world. While solar/lunar orbits, presence of atmosphere, stars, etc, can all be given as examples, they were most likely added so that we could have things like day/night cycles and so on.

"Nether" means lower, or below (from old English "nithera" lit. 'further down/under') . In Minecraft, the Nether is also known as Hell (see biome name), which in the vast majority of religious symbolism; is depicted as a fiery place below the ground. It has a layer of bedrock at the top of the dimension, which also supports the argument that it is linked to the bottom of the Overworld. Additionally, the coordinates in the nether line up with the coordinates in the Overworld. That is, 0,0 in the nether is 0,0 in the Overworld etc (although this may just be because of feasibility and convenience).

This leads into the distance multiplication, which doesn't really need much more explanation. I also think that it is highly unlikely that a development team actually thought to scale the distance between the two dimensions for any other reason.

Conclusion: The Minecraft Overworld was conceived as the surface of a planet, and the Nether conceived as a space beneath the surface of the same planet.

Quote from 4HeadTiger

Most evidence (not derived from limitations of software) suggests that the Minecraft developers envisaged a planetary world.

"Nether" means lower, or below (from old English "nithera" lit. 'further down/under') . In Minecraft, the Nether is also known as Hell (see biome name), which in the vast majority of religious symbolism; is depicted as a fiery place below the ground. It has a layer of bedrock at the top of the dimension, which also supports the argumennt that it is linked to the bottom of the Overworld. Additionally, the coordinates in the nether line up with the coordinates in the Overworld. That is, 0,0 in the nether is 0,0 in the Overworld etc (although this may just be because of feasibility and convenience).

This leads into the distance multiplication, which doesn't really need much more explanation. I also think that it is highly unlikely that a development team actually thought to scale the distance between the two dimensions for any other reason.

Conclusion: The Minecraft Overworld was conceived as the surface of a planet, and the Nether conceived as a space beneath the surface of the same planet. The distance multiplication occurs as a result of this. See my earlier post.

I may be wrong but I thought at some point in the past mojang said they did not want the nether and overworld to be in the same dimension. I think they more meant of it as something that was implied to be like that however not to actually function in that manner. Mind you I may be wrong, But if they do implement the nether in such a way that would be rather awesome.

Quote from Sorrowinsanity

I may be wrong but I thought at some point in the past mojang said they did not want the nether and overworld to be in the same dimension. I think they more meant of it as something that was implied to be like that however not to actually function in that manner. Mind you I may be wrong, But if they do implement the nether in such a way that would be rather awesome.

If you and I are both thinking of the same thing; I thought that they meant something more like "we don't want the nether and overworld to be joined up in such a way that you could go into creative mode, bust a hole in the bedrock, and then be in the nether" rather than "The Overworld and Nether are in totally separate planes of reality". The problem, of course, being that linear chunks and vertical complexity don't really go together very well.

Of course I could be totally wrong; I've just always found it less illogical to think that the Nether is directly below the Overworld.

Anyway, I think it really just boils down to the fact that making the nether spawn at the center of planets would be really easy given that all of the hard work would have gone into actually making the planets in the first place (and given that planets are a little bit outside of the scope of this suggestion, I think we're getting off topic).

EDIT: I forgot to mention the achievement, "WE HAVE TO GO DEEPER".

Quote from 4HeadTiger

What about if there were just less problems than there are with the linear system?

It has nothing to do with the quantity of the problems. The linear system works acceptably and has a certain kind of realism. If the cubic system does not have the same kind of realism, I will not support it, even if my FPS increases 1000%.

Quote from Cuchaz

For something like this to work, the shape of the world would have to be spherical. Minecraft's chunk loading system right now can only handle planar worlds, so there's basically no way to do this without building a completely new engine.

Cube shaped planets should be more than feasible with M3L [+ Tall Worlds with some adjustments].

To make the planet work, one would just need to change a couple of classes here and there, rotating the camera, change gravity directions according to where the player is on the planet. As far as I can tell, the major requirements are;

- Generate cube of stone+ores+caves, then paste Minecraft terrain onto faces
- Change gravity direction according to where player is on cube
- Rotate camera and player to account for gravity

Various other requirements;
- Replace fluids with rewritten variants which can deal with changes in gravity direction
- Rewrite parts of rewritten lighting system (light always comes top-down relative to face etc)
- Adjust mob path-finding to accommodate for edges of planet-cube
- Some various minor tweaks (redstone, grass & plants, etc)

Anyway, if M3L lets you make all of the changes that you're making in Tall Worlds, it should theoretically let another modder make all of the changes required to make a cube shaped planet.

When I read about planets I'm thinking of something like this but on a much larger scale; I don't see why you can't just use normal cubical chunks (and blocks) with that; you'd just have to add a gravity system pointing to the center of the sphere and adjust stuff (as mentioned). You can even have a core/Nether inside, which would just be a smaller sphere of cubical blocks in the larger sphere.

Just realized all bugs of this are ones that exsist in minecraft anyways, no matter what, so why is this thing not done yet by mojang themselves.

Quote from Chameleonred5

It has nothing to do with the quantity of the problems. The linear system works acceptably and has a certain kind of realism. If the cubic system does not have the same kind of realism, I will not support it, even if my FPS increases 1000%.

I do not mean to be picky, But are you saying that minecraft a game made of blocks, With things like zombies, Potions, enchanting, and flying jellyfish monsters that fly and live in hell. The new cubic chunks system will not be any less "Realistic" then the current system. It is rather petty to not support something that can decrease lag and increase the building height by so much simply because you do not like one aspect of it.

Quote from Nawnp

Just realized all bugs of this are ones that exsist in minecraft anyways, no matter what, so why is this thing not done yet by mojang themselves.

The reason this is not done by mojang yet is because of current bugs with cubic chunks such as the problems with the lighting system That need to be fixed first before mojang will even think of adding this.

On the Nether as hell dispute, the coordinates most certainly do not line up. Going to 0,0,0 only lines up because that is the exact center of both worlds. If the coordinates lined up, the Nether would have to be eight times as small as the Overworld to compensate for the coordinate multiplication.
A simple example of this is to go to the world border in the Overworld and build a portal. When you enter the Nether, it would be possible to continue travelling in the direction of the Overworld's border for quite some time. (eight times as long as it would take to return to the center of the Nether from where you would spawn at) Were you to then create a portal at the Nether's border, you would appear either at the previous portal in the Overworld to prevent Farland generation, or would be trapped in the "Invisible bedrock" of the world's edge.

My opinion on the Nether/Overworld topic is this; I would prefer they stay separate. I like the idea of the Nether being an entirely different dimension from the Overworld. If one could access Nether from the Overworld by simply digging down far enough, I believe it would take away the some of the "style" or "mood" that is established when you have to build a portal to get there.

Quote from Sorrowinsanity

I do not mean to be picky, But are you saying that minecraft a game made of blocks, With things like zombies, Potions, enchanting, and flying jellyfish monsters that fly and live in hell. The new cubic chunks system will not be any less "Realistic" then the current system. It is rather petty to not support something that can decrease lag and increase the building height by so much simply because you do not like one aspect of it.

See exact wording: "certain kind of realism." Realism in terms of Minecraft. If sunlight doesn't work properly, if I can fall into unloaded chunks, if the gameplay is in any way different, I'm not going to support it. However, I know that people are thinking about it. If they can find solutions to the problems this suggestion has, then I will support it.

Wow! I had the exact same idea!

You can definitely count me as a supporter.

Quote from Avaruusmurkku

You are talking like those things are not already happening with the current system...

CUBIC CHUNKS ISN'T PERFECT SO THEREFORE WE CAN'T HAVE IT, EVEN THOUGH THERE ARE 229 PAGES ON THIS THREAD ALONE WHICH QUITE CONCLUSIVELY PROVE THAT THE VANILLA SYSTEM IS FAR MORE SERIOUSLY FLAWED.

This statement has been made several times, and I said it using big letters, so it must be logically sound.

Seriously though: the point of this thread is to evaluate the two systems. We long ago concluded that Cubic Chunks was better. Mojang is just being lazy (my guess is that they are saving themselves work by waiting for a modder to make the code; this allows them to completely skip all of the internal drafting process).

I edited the title just because.

Quote from Calacbolg

I edited the title just because.

Oh yeah, because it's not like being the #1 most popular Minecraft suggestion of all time (and hence one of the most popular video game suggestions of all time) is a significant achievement or anything.

Quote from 4HeadTiger

Oh yeah, because it's not like being the #1 most popular Minecraft suggestion of all time (and hence one of the most popular video game suggestions of all time) is a significant achievement or anything.

Evidently not significant enough.

Quote from Chameleonred5

See exact wording: "certain kind of realism." Realism in terms of Minecraft. If sunlight doesn't work properly, if I can fall into unloaded chunks, if the gameplay is in any way different, I'm not going to support it. However, I know that people are thinking about it. If they can find solutions to the problems this suggestion has, then I will support it.

And you see "A certain type of realism" in itself is wrong. There can never be a "Certain type of realism" When a system is changing not only by adding new items and ideas But by changing the items and ideas already established. Minecraft has added many things and changed what those things do. Not to mention that the world generation system has been changed several times as well.

Some one should make a cubic chunks mod!