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Cubic Chunks: Reduced lag, infinite height, and more [The #1 Suggestion Thread of all time!][Updated! 6/14]
Poll: Which parts of this system do you like?
Ended May 15, 2014
Poll: Which parts of this system do you NOT like?
Ended May 15, 2014
Poll: Do you support this system's implementation overall? (If yes, if
Ended May 15, 2014
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Curse PremiumOr have unprotected sex and wait 6-12 days.
I believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn, bless her Invisible Pinkness.
While I won't drown because I don't personally find this offensive, I would ask you to please refrain from such talk; We don't want parents denying their children access to this site because of assumed vulgarity.
Or juvenile pregnancy.
Ok, I'll stop now.
EDIT: For the record, my post was ~very~ factual.
I believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn, bless her Invisible Pinkness.
Once again I got to thank Calacbolg for all his/her work to bring my idea to life. That op is amazing, detailed, and evolving constantly to include more information, so awesome!
Something else to consider (and maybe add to the OP):
Chunk loaders!.... they won't have to load nearly as many chunks. rather than hedge cylinders or blocks they can load smaller spheres or flattish disks. This will greatly cut down on the load on the server. Right now they load the inter height of the map, but if this is implemented madders will have to change them, and will have the opportunity to set up much better options of 3d chunk selection.
Chunk loaders may be usefully but there an awfully big waist loading the whole height of the map.
"Because it's your right as an American to butcher the English language."
This is my baby, please support her and get her into vanilla:
Imagine having each layer of chunks rendered as a separate thread with separate optimization methods applied to increasingly distant chunks.
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"Because it's your right as an American to butcher the English language."
This is my baby, please support her and get her into vanilla:
MC is now (technically) multithreaded, but not in the right areas; if they were to multithread the world update (most importantly) then you can reduce the workload that's placed on a single processor.
So I would ask that CC would also look into multithreading based off of Y-chunk separations, X-chunk separations, or Z-chunk separations.
(Think of it like putting each cross-sectional chunk on it's own thread. With a Y-chunk cross-section, you'd have fewer threads and a lot of work still being done on the built up threads; but what if we did X or Z-chunk cross-sectioning; now the workload is far more distributed and processing is far more easy to work around.
As is current, I don't really see a significant improvement that CC could bring to the table; but adding CC with multithreading will drive me straight to full support.
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Hello everyone!
Some here will recognize me, others won';t. I was/am a part of [url="http://www.minecraft...6582-robinton/"]Robinton[/url] original [url="http://www.minecraft...obintons-mods/"]Cubic Chunks Mod[/url] development team from back in the day. I was also the person who brought awareness of his incredible mod to the rest of the community and mojang after the mod sat mostly unnoticed for 2 months, after that everything went nuts.
I have, for the most part, been away since the end of last year due to a family crisis. As such I managed to remain completely unaware of this huge resurgence of support for Cubic Chunks in Minecraft until somewhat recently. I'm surprised it took this long for one of this thread's followers to PM me regarding it.
Thanks go to [url="http://www.minecraft...454-minecr4ck/"]Minecr4ck[/url] for that PM, nice nick
I, as an original evangelist for adding Cubic Chunks to Minecraft (Greatful nod to [url="http://www.minecraft...r/59635-nocte/"]Nocte[/url] who brought my attention to it first and eventually also joined the CC team), even having [url="http://www.reddit.co...of_the/c2me2bz"]spoken with notch on Reddit[/url] regarding it and his skepticism, am personally overjoyed at this reborn enthusiastic Cubic Chunks community! My goal from the start has been to get Mojang to allow higher worlds in vanilla minecraft. I started a thread to help people have [url="http://www.minecraft...deeper-worlds/"]Higher Worlds[/url] a while before the world became aware of Robinton's breakthrough Cubic Chunks Mod. Before his mod only a linear chunks method of extending the height was known ([url="http://www.minecraft...s/#ymodinstall"]ymod[/url]). But once I became aware of the 3DChunks method, aka Cubic Chunks, that became my primary focus as it was clearly the superior method in every way and would provide players with an experience far beyond anything yet imagined for minecraft.
I will say this; things certainly are different now in the minecraft community in regards to game height and acceptance of raising it. Back at the start of the movement I was constantly having to forum-fight people who kept flat out telling people that asked for greater height that it was impossible to raise the height " because notch said so".. They used the most ridiculous pseudo-science logic to try and "prove" why. They kept denying it even after I gave them the link to Robinton's Cubic Chunks mod and explained it to them. It was a religion of denial for them and they used every dirty trick to try and keep people unaware of the Height/Depth Revolution, including manipulating moderators into closing and deleting entire threads that exposed the truth! Thankfully that's all history now and that crux of time can just be laughed at as we all move forward.
We all now take Minecraft's 256 height for granted, forgetting or not even knowing that it only happened because of Robinton inspiring Jeb, and of course Jeb having the courage to defy notch's ego on the matter. btw: Jeb gave a nod to Robinton in the official mojang blog notice regarding the "Anvil" update from 128 to 256 height. That update not only doubled minecrafts height but also saw the huge changeover of it's entire block management system to a quasi-cubic chunks method instead of the pure linear-chunks method it had always been based on before when it was 128 high. Unfortunately it wasn't the full true Cubic Chunks system like Robinton implemented in his mod, so jebs system won't scale as far or smoothly, but it was close enough that it allowed them to double the height with no real performance hit! It wasn't what Robinton, I and others were hoping for, but it was a wedge in and definitely an improvement for the game and it's players nonetheless!
---------------
It looks like the team working in this thread is doing an incredible job of it! Of course, a little more of a nod to the history of Cubic Chunks in Minecraft would be appreciated. If I had been approached with an appropriate developer I could have/could still have them added to the official original Cubic Chunks Dev team and given them access to the original source code of the Cubic Chunks Mod (from mc1.0), in the condition it's in.. Lots of work needs to be done to update it to the modern Minecraft base.
I will now make Robinton aware of this thread so that he can see that what he gave birth to is still causing a commotion in the community, heh heh. Btw: Other original devs and contributors to the original CC Mod are still around here and there and could be invaluable in assisting with all of this. The main hold up is getting CC updated to deal with the current Minecraft code, after that there are some actual geniuses in the community who may still be available who would be able to help take what the Cubic Chunks mod was and take it to the next level.
I know what Mojangs concerns are with the Cubic Chunks method taken to the level that Robinton took it to, and if we can resurrect the mod and continue working on it so that those issues can be solved to their satisfaction, then I know Jeb will give it a fair hearing. Believe me folks; Jeb knows all about Robinton and Cubic Chunks, I and others made sure of that long ago. He knows of me too and has always been a reasonable person. He is, in fact, the original Mojang believer in Cubic Chunks!
Some fun facts and Downloads for people new to Cubic Chunks in Minecraft:
The original [url="http://www.minecraft...obintons-mods/"]Cubic Chunks mod[/url] was born and developed in the long quiet Minecraft beta 1.7.3 period, when it was possible to just work on the mod and not spend all time doing nothing but updating to new minecraft versions over and over (which is what finally caused Robinton to quit the project).
The Cubic Chunks Mod started out with 4096m of vertical space (-2k to +2k). This was eventually upgraded to 64/65km of vertical space (-32k to +32k) with no performance hit. * Robinton was going to release a version of CC with 4.2 million Km of vertical space next, it would have only increased the save file by about 10% if I recall correctly and shouldn't have hurt performance any. He stated that the upgrade to 4.2 mil km was a small and easy one, going beyond that though would have required more thought and rewritting.
Press [F4] in any version of the Cubic Chunks Mod to toggle Robinton's built-in [url="http://www.minecraft...s/#Coordinates"]Coordinates Info mod[/url].
There are versions of the Cubic Chunks Mod for b1.7.3, b1.8.1 and mc1.0, and even Multi-player test versions.
- Downloads for Recommended versions of the Original Cubic Chunks Mod
Click [Show] button to open
[url="http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/310298-100robintons-mods/#CubicChunks"]Cubic Chunks Mod[/url] - by [url="http://www.minecraftforum.net/user/186582-robinton/"]Robinton[/url]
For: beta 1.7.3
* [url="http://www.mediafire.com/download/vb5bq3aoitdkgx8/ModLoader_B1.7.3.zip"]ModLoader b1.7.3[/url] is not required for these versions but it is compatible. Regardless: DO Delete Meta-Inf folder!
* [url="http://www.mediafire.com/download/s9k5qwqb6g3egm4/minecraftforge-client-1.0.6_mc-b173.zip"]Forge 1.0.6[/url] is not required for these versions either but it is compatible.
[url="http://www.mediafire.com/download/mka76ke3zn1oet3/V1.5.1_CubicChunks_B1.7.3_Client_(65K-NormalTerrain-NoPTM).zip"]v1.5.1_CubicChunks_b1.7.3_Client_(65k-NormalTerrain-NoPTM).zip[/url] ** Classic Version!
[url="http://www.mediafire.com/download/m9kcrfdfwt3yqkj/V1.5.2_CubicChunks_B1.7.3_Client_(65K-1st-PTM-HighTerrain).zip"]v1.5.2_CubicChunks_b1.7.3_Client_(65k-1st-PTM-4096HighTerrain).zip[/url]
- More caves = more LAG [Experimental]. + [url="http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/437213-worlds-how-to-have-higher-deeper-worlds/page__st__200#entry9183184"]FarView Option[/url]!
[url="http://www.mediafire.com/download/2rwh3y6lkbbc2av/V1.5.2_CubicChunks_B1.7.3_SettingsFix.zip"]v1.5.2_CubicChunks_b1.7.3_SettingsFix.zip[/url] - [url="http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/437213-worlds-how-to-have-higher-deeper-worlds/page__st__180#entry8679668"]How to affect high Terrain[/url] in this version.
* [url="http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/546129-173-worldedit-xt-cubic-chunks-144-wip/"]WorldEdit XT[/url] - Only for b1.7.3 versions. This makes some of the World Edit commands CC Compatible. The Source Code is there too if you want to update + finish it.
For: beta 1.8.1
* This version Requires [ [url="http://www.mediafire.com/download/1hpf1h7a2qcn7y5/ModLoader_b1.8.1_2011-11-22.zip"]ModLoader b1.8.1[/url] ] + [ [url="http://www.mediafire.com/download/ls4493g90c99pk2/minecraftforge-client-1.1.1_mc-b181.zip"]Forge 1.1.1[/url] ] to be installed first in that order. DO Delete Meta-Inf folder.
[url="http://www.mediafire.com/download/66nj5t1wwj3yow3/V1.5.3_CubicChunks_T6_B1.8.1_Client.zip"]v1.5.3_CubicChunks_T6_b1.8.1_Client.zip[/url]
- The Nether height was also increased in this version (made Cubic). [Experimental]
Nether is -2k to +2k (4096). (The normal 8x movement applies to the vertical as well) (Some lag from lava etc)
For: mc1.0 - LAST version released (If you only try one version then try this one, or v1.5.1 for b1.7.3)
[url="http://www.mediafire.com/download/7f37r7gx1ut8v7t/V1.5.4_CubicChunks_T7_MC1.0.0_Client.zip"]v1.5.4_CubicChunks_T7_mc1.0.0_Client.zip[/url] BUG: You cannot make new worlds, use a world started before installing this mod.
-- Must Install [ [url="http://www.mediafire.com/download/1uu3d2bx2v42nkt/ModLoader_1.0.0.zip"]ModLoader 1.0.0[/url] ] first. DO Delete Meta-Inf folder.
[url="http://www.mediafire.com/download/z98mtgp31uh9cio/V1.5.4_CubicChunks_T7_MC1.0.0_Server.zip"]v1.5.4_CubicChunks_T7_mc1.0.1_Server.zip[/url] ** This was a TEST, many improvements need to be made yet.
-- Install ModLoaderMP for 1.0.0 first? {MP 1.0.0 [url="http://adf.ly/3uAHM"]Client[/url] / [url="http://adf.ly/3uSv3"]Server[/url]} Do NOT delete Meta-Inf folder in the Server .jar.
There is also a [url="http://www.mediafire.com/download/ehzvk0x3ys8k8bl/v2.0.1_WorldSaveConverter_(Use-with-Anvil-worlds).zip"]WorldConverter 2.0.1[/url] by [url="http://www.minecraftforum.net/user/186582-robinton/"]Robinton[/url] that can convert saves between Cubic Chunks / old Vanilla 128 / Anvil vanilla 256 / ymod / + other mods/formats. [ [url="http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/437213-worlds-how-to-have-higher-deeper-worlds/#worldconverter"]More Info and Instructions[/url] ]
Its source code (With Robintons blessing) is [ [url="http://www.mediafire.com/download/90ezcom8f0n32ag/v2.0.1_WorldSaveConverter_(Use-with-Anvil-worlds)_%5BSourceCode%5D.zip"]Here[/url] ]. [ [url="http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/310298-100robintons-mods/#SaveConverter"]Original Post and links[/url] ]
More Necro-CC Info and links [ [url="http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/437213-worlds-how-to-have-higher-deeper-worlds/"]Here[/url] ] + [ [url="http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/310298-100robintons-mods/"]Here[/url] ]
* The main Reddit posts with Notch / MineCrak / Robinton:
[ [url="http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/kq89v/cubic_chunks_increases_the_performance_of_the/c2me2bz"]Link to the Reddit[/url] ]
xNotch 275 points 1 year ago
I'm sorry, but we are not going to integrate this. It opens up a huuuuuge can of worms, and it's far too close to the november release. If the mod creator could answer a couple of question for me, that would be very much appreciated: On a multiplayer server, one player stays on ground level (say, height 32000), while another one builds a pillar to 64000. The first player logs out. At height 64000, the second player starts building a large flat area that would put the entire area the first player is in in shadow. The first player logs in. How do you ensure the area is in shadow? The second player then removes a single block near (but not next to) the pillar. This should light up the pillar all the way down to the ground. How do you ensure this happens?
Minecrak 80 points 1 year ago
*xNotch - If the mod creator could answer a couple of question for me, that would be very much appreciated:
Hello. Robinton, the mod creator, has been awaiting the opportunity to chat with you constructively about implementing the 3D Chunks system in your game. His Height mod (Cubic Chunks) is his functioning and in development implementation of this methodology for Minecraft.
- I believe he is asleep at this time though. I am a part of his team and may be able to help with some of your questions in the mean-time, but please don't hold him accountable for any mistakes on my part.
-- Robinton, and his core team, are under no illusion that his mod is at this moment ready to be added to the main version of the game today, and understandably not before the main release either considering how incredibly much you have on your plate right now. However; It has been proven to be very functional and works much better than raising the linear chunk height. We believe that moving minecraft over to using a 3D chunks method, as has been done and demonstrated in this mod, would increase the overall options for this games continued development and enjoyability. It even does very well with compatibility with other mods including Modloader, Forge, Zeppelin, PullCart etc.- You could limit the height to any arbitrary level you wish, or give the players or server operators the ability to choose the height, the method would still work fine, much better then an increased linear/vertical chunk method would performance-wise while giving the users a choice. The 65k height was just the result of a convenient variable length; even if you limit the in-game height the engine would still support more without any changes, and it can easily be bumped to far higher yet. You could even make a clear proviso stating that you only support using it to a certain height and anything above that is considered experimental only and not supported by you. Also; there is already a World converter made that will transfer worlds to and from the normal 128 & the Cubic worlds and the Terrain Generator has just been converted over to a directly 3D Chunk generated version.
- Notch; there are a lot of people with a hunger to be able to build 1:1 scale structures in Minecraft at heights far in excess of 128 meters. This would give people a choice. Here are a couple of screenshots in my thread as an example: [url="http://www.minecraft...creens"]http://www.minecraft...creens[/url]
--- In partial answer to your question, since Robinton would need to be the one to answer the code-functionality issues; View distances come into play vertically as they do horizontally now. The 3D Chunks are 16x16x16 not 16x16x128 and aren't managed in the same way. No one is trying to create a perfect physics simulator here, anymore than already has been. It's about making a workable fun game environment. Realistically, a small platform 32km above should make no shadow 32km below, and it is unnecessary to make it do so when the game view distance isn't 32km. However, workable & playable solutions for any such factors are what this development is all about finding. The people currently enjoying the mod have been happy to just have the option of having the greater height to build and play in, and they know more experience enhancing features are coming.- Concepts for increasing perceived view distance have been discussed though and are on the list for development. For instance; a stored compressed chunk view for greater distances as the human eye cannot see detail at great distances, so far-away chunks do not need to be rendered in full detail to every player in order to create a beautiful and functional panorama. Combine this with a very-far distance semi-static scenic-view image for their background based on their actual world and you have an immersive perceptual environment that will suck people into the game and keep them there for life.
Image removed due to an invalid URL: http://static.minecr...fault/wink.png
-- We may not yet have every answer to every extreme possibility but Robinton is implementing it in order to find out. He will have more answers on the code level for you than I would. We only ask that you please have a dialog with Robinton and keep open the possibility of this enhancement for Minecraft for a time that is appropriate for both you and the games development.- Thank you for coming here and looking into this. We do what we do because we all love and have been so inspired by you and your game. Please remember this Notch.
Image removed due to an invalid URL: http://static.minecr...fault/wink.png
Robinton 7 points1 year agoThanks for answering, MineCrak. Notch's question was around midnight for me.
Robinton 56 points 1 year ago
tl;dr: CC probably doesn't ensure that the shadow from the platform will spread, but probably does ensure that the light from the hole will spread. I'd be glad to work on improving CC's lighting system to fix these bugs.Long answer: Well, first, in the real world, it would take a very large platform at 32km in the air to cast a visible shadow. Second, I know that there are a few glitches in CC, and I'm not entirely sure that the ground would be in shadow from the platform, and, for consistent performance, it really should be. Third, in CC, the ground should light back up when the platform's block is removed. The heightMap will get recalculated, and if player1 is logged out, that'll probably set the height to the floor of the world. But, as soon as someone logs in, and ChunkCubes are loaded in that spot, the heightMap will update for the newly loaded ChunkCubes (unless there's say, an unloaded platform3 halfway between player1's platform and the ground, then light would almost certainly shine straight through platform3). When the ChunkCubes are loaded, a lighting update gets called between each newly loaded ChunkCube and all ajacent already loaded ChunkCube; this will spread the light at ground-level.I have a few ideas that I could try that would make this more reliable. I could have each chunk store a List of 16x1x16 NibbleArrays with 2 ints (min and max Height) that would tell the lighting update code where the large areas of empty cubes are, and what light is streaming down though each column. That could fix all of the problems, and should definitely fix all except the transparent platform3 issue. So far, I hadn't focused much on lighting, opting instead to work on things like higher terrain; if lighting bugs are a major issue with CC, I'll focus a lot more attention on them.BTW, thanks for asking me.
*** See you around!
- The Cubic Chunks Mod is back! Be a part of it's rebirth and Development.
-- Robinton's Mods: [ Mirror ] for some of his Mods incl Cubic Chunks Mod, due to DropBox broken links.
- Dungeon Generator for the Open Cubic Chunks Mod
- QuickSAVE-QuickLOAD for the Open Cubic Chunks Mod
multiplemany ways.also you should check out Tall Worlds
I recognize you! Welcome back! It's so great to have you here.
I empathize with your frustration with people who seem incapable of understanding Cubic Chunks. We have had quite a few of those here. They don't realize that it is as much about optimization and reduction of lag as it is infinite height.
Guys, this is great. He's going to bring Robinton back. The story will come to a full circle, and MineCrak or Robinton may be our key to convincing Mojang to implement (Implant :- p) Cubic Chunks. They are our best chance for starting a meaningful and/or sustained conversation with the developers about Cubic Chunks.
MineCrak is back, he's going to engineer the RETURN OF ROBINTON, and we are less than 15 supporters away from 2,000 supporters. Things are going well.
As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;
And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!
-The Gods Of The Copybook Headings, by Rudyard Kipling.
Whoa now! I appreciate the enthusiasm, but please don't misunderstand me! Robinton will NOT update the CC Mod, but he'd be happy to possibly work on it again if someone else updated it for the current MC base.
I will let him know about this thread though. And you never know, he may say hi or something.
Regardless; there is definite hope for Cubic Chunks in Minecraft again. We don't need for anyone to try and reinvent Cubic Chunks all over again. We just need someone to do the hard work of getting the already existing Cubic Chunks implementation up and running on the current Minecraft code base. After that happens there are a few already existing members of the team, plus more it would seem, who would be more than able to work on it and experiment with all sorts of methods and ideas that have been brewing for a very long time already to take the mod to the next level.
Having that modern stable platform for the already existing Cubic Chunks Mod to run on will usher in a new Golden Era of Development in this field that will make your head spin! This includes compressed far away viewing (Horizon View), 3D Biomes (Domains) and all sorts of incredible fun! Plus, now that MCEdit is open source it will be possible to go into it and update it for cubic chunks ourselves!
- The Cubic Chunks Mod is back! Be a part of it's rebirth and Development.
-- Robinton's Mods: [ Mirror ] for some of his Mods incl Cubic Chunks Mod, due to DropBox broken links.
- Dungeon Generator for the Open Cubic Chunks Mod
- QuickSAVE-QuickLOAD for the Open Cubic Chunks Mod
Oh I didn't mean he would update it. In fact, the possibility of him just helping "work on it" was more than I hoped. Him simply showing up and patting everyone on the back would be enough for me. But it would be nice if he did help.
As for inventing Cubic Chunks all over again, I believe it already has been. We are fairly close to the release of Barteks2x's Cubic Chunks mod. If you or Robinton want to help bring Cubic Chunks to modern Minecraft that would be the best place to start.
As for bringing Robinton back, tell him he basically has the status of a minor deity on this thread.
As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;
And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!
-The Gods Of The Copybook Headings, by Rudyard Kipling.
Hmm. Upgrade that to Deity and I'll see what I can do.
- The Cubic Chunks Mod is back! Be a part of it's rebirth and Development.
-- Robinton's Mods: [ Mirror ] for some of his Mods incl Cubic Chunks Mod, due to DropBox broken links.
- Dungeon Generator for the Open Cubic Chunks Mod
- QuickSAVE-QuickLOAD for the Open Cubic Chunks Mod
Holy crap! It is great to see two Cubic Chunks 'veterans' here today. Thank you for coming
Speaking of videos, I am having an issue with YouTube I hope you guys may be able to help me with. I have the video all made and uploaded, however I can't figure out how to get annotations to link to here. My options for annotation links are Video, Playlist, Channel, Subscribe, Fundraising Project, Associated Website, and Merch, there is no option for a custom link, yet I have seen this done with other video's annotations. Anybody have advice on what to do here? Thanks in advance
also you should check out Tall Worlds
This isn't a good thing. We have a response from Mojang, but we have no way of knowing what it is because the person who got the response is too selfish to share it.
And here I had assumed it was just a communications issue. Is the person with the response really being that juvenile? Really??