I apologize for what looks like a repeated topic but this isn’t just another “add food” suggestion. While I do like the idea of adding more food into the game it needs to have some kind of larger purpose than keeping Steve full.
For example, there is no reason to choose steak over pork chops. For farming efficiency cows win over pigs due to the extra resource they drop so pigs are currently only useful if you want to ride them. Subsequently, once a player has a decent farm of livestock the crops start to lose value in regard to hunger and saturation fulfillment. Unless the player has a very specific play style, like not eating meat, the average player may not make bread ever again because the wheat is more valuable as a breeding tool.
Proposal
After looking at the Golden Apple and Rotten Flesh I thought what could work is giving craftable foods slight buffs similar to potions.
The great thing about this is that you can’t keep buffing yourself via food because Steve won’t eat if he is full. Also it won’t have the same buffs as potions, only a handful might overlap such as the Golden Apple’s regen ability. Another thing is that potions are usually a mid to late game item provided that the player likes using them. Food on the other hand is something that you need constantly so this gives early players or players who aren’t alchemy savvy to enjoy some kind of buff.
Again, just for clarification the food buffs won’t be nearly as strong as potions. If I were to use a scale of a 100 (0 being no buffs or enchants at all) to show off the power between the two, it would as follows:
Tier I potion = 35 Low tier food = 10
Tier II potion = 55 Highest tier food = 30
These values are for reference in relation on how powerful the buffs should be.
What should be food buffs?
Here is a list of status effects currently in the game’s code as well as a few I came up with.
Red = unavailable but in game, Bold = can be a food effect, Blue = not in game but could be
Speed
Slow
Haste
Mining Fatigue
Strength
Weakness
Instant Health
Instant Damage
Health Boost (Temporary Increase hearts)
Regeneration
Poison
Night Vision
Blindness
Jump Boost
Burden (Lowers the ability to jump)
Nausea
Resistance
Fire Resistance
Water Breathing
Invisibility
Hunger
Wither
The duration and strength of the effect is determined on the crafting recipe. Using this as a foundation we have the opportunity to introduce more food stuffs to eat:
“Ham Sandwich” crafted using bread and cooked pork recovers 4 hunger points, 13.5 saturation and 12 strength (I used the value system of a 100 above for reference) that lasts for 20 seconds
“Roast Beef Sandwich” crafted with bread and cooked steak recovers 4 hunger points, 13.5 saturation and 12 resistance for 20 seconds
“Chicken Salad Sandwich” crafted with bread and cooked chicken recovers 3.5 hunger points, 8 saturation and 12 haste for 20 seconds
“Beef stew” crafted with cooked steak, 2 potatoes, 2 carrorts, 1 brown mushroom and a bowl recovers 5 hunger points, 16 saturation, 20 resistance, 3 health boost, 5 burden and 12 slow
Those above are merely examples; I really just want to be able to convey the concept than have any singular food item. I also would like to see more variations of effects that may work in the Minecraft world. If I come up with anymore or if anyone has a good suggestion I will post it.
A few counter arguments
“We already have potions!”
I suspect I might still get this but just to clarify the food buffs are nowhere near as strong as potions. I want to keep those as late game items. I just want the opportunity to have food a better presence in the game.
“Health Boost is OP!”
In PvP, probably, but that is another thread to deal with the armor and enchants. Personally I think that system is a little unbalanced only in multiplayer. In both SSP and SMP I have encountered enough Pigmen to realize they can shred through your enchanted diamond armor if you’re not careful. Pigmen hold grudges forever. Besides, some people don’t like wearing armor and the extra health is non regenerative. Once you lose the temp health you need to eat the necessary food to gain it back again.
“Too much like an RPG!”
I see this get thrown around a lot and frankly I really don’t get it. Minecraft’s genre is Minecraft. It is what you want it to be. People like playing it in creative and using it as an art tool. Some create Adventure maps that may focus on a more RPG aspect but it isn’t limited to that. I have seen puzzle maps and platformers. People created sports games and a Super Smash Bros. type game. Then there are the Hunger games. If we’re talking about straight up survival then this proposal should be okay since it helps you survive better.
This is a well thought-out suggestion, and I rather like it. I think it would go especially well alongside the crafting station for foods I've proposed, and the hunger-themed mod request some people have told me I should resubmit as a feature request.
Sounds tasty, but maybe a little overpowered. Foods like the ham sandwich would be available early on in the game, but items like golden apples and potions are only available later on. Maybe items like the roast beef and ham sandwiches would require curing (crafting with mushrooms and sugar, like fermented spider eyes) or some other process to properly create. This would make them slightly harder to get. Given, they are less powerful than potions. Anyway, I like it. Support.
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Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana.
@AnonTheMouse: Those are neat ideas and the mod would synergize well. Having this as a foundation would also strengthen the argument for an advance furnace. Although I'm a bit lukewarm with it I do like the idea of having a brick oven :3 Thanks for the support!
@AlpineKnot and PanJouda: I was actually worried it might be too weak but the thing that seperates potions from food is that you can keep reapplying potions as much as you want. Keep in mind that you can't eat if you're full. Plus these buffs aren't at all that strong compared to what a potion can do. I mainly want to keep this a lower end buff but something that can be used early on towards late game.
Just to clarify, these buffs would be less power than a tier one potion, and only give a very slight advantage or disadvantage? If so, that makes more sense. Maybe golden apples would not be edible if your hunger bar is full, if your changes are applied.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana.
Just to clarify, these buffs would be less power than a tier one potion, and only give a very slight advantage or disadvantage? If so, that makes more sense. Maybe golden apples would not be edible if your hunger bar is full, if your changes are applied.
That is correct. The logic behind that is so that while it offers some minor things early game it won't be too OP later on when potions do become a factor. I suspect that with this idea in play it may be possible to stack like effects between food and potions. So you could in effect get a tier III effect for a short time. Also not all potion effects are available to food.
The food buffs is just a supplement really and it gives each food a unique property. In this way having more foods being introduced will have a purpose rather than just being pure aesthetics. Also I was toying with the idea that the higher tier the food gets you get some bad stuff along with it. Sort of how like the intial brewing system was introduced minus the randomness of it.
A reason to craft better foods that isn't just about how much they refill.
A justification for the addition of better food crafting, including an oven.
A way for players who dislike the effects to ignore them: Just don't craft those foods, since the earlier foods suffice.
Instead of having a separate timer for the buff, have it last as long as saturation lasts (when your hunger bar starts shaking, the buff has worn off). This also gives a good reason to pay attention to saturation levels (right now, for me, they're only "anti-annoyance numbers": The better I saturate, the less I get bugged by the bouncing icons).
In addition, this might be a good time to introduce food decay. Normal food doesn't decay (that'd just get irritating) - but anything that would give a buff does decay (except for the golden apple), unless stored in an icebox. (Might have additional food preservation techniques.) Let's say it stays good for 3 days before it decays, which means you wouldn't be running around with this stuff in your inventory; you'd either craft it when you need it or store it in the icebox and only carry what you'll eat in the next few days.
Icebox: A chest, but it keeps food cold. (Would love it to turn into a refrigerator if you stack it 2 high. Merely visual change; you could also stack it two sideways to get the normal large chest.) You craft a box around a block of snow or ice to make it. Either it works indefinitely, or it "burns" ice and snow like a furnace burns fuel. Snow blocks would probably be the most efficient fuel, and a stack of 64 snow blocks would last a really long time - maybe a week, maybe a month? If the icebox doesn't require fuel, then probably putting a regular chest in or near water would have the same effect.
And, obviously, an Oven, which'd be like a furnace with a crafting square involved.
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My nephews and I have started posting Minecraft videos on my YouTube channel! Fairly random, but enjoyable.
General schedule is 4 PM Mon-Fri and 10 AM Saturdays. Most popular MC vid so far is the one Vechs laughed at on Twitter!
That is actually pretty awesome. I like the addition of decaying food for advanced foods. To be clear on that subject we can divide the foods into a tier system:
Tier 1 = includes all the current food we already have avaialble as well as for any new foods that only require a raw food to be cooked. I think it is also important that raw foods do not spoil. I don't really want to change that aspect of the game too much and I'm sure most people (including me) keep raw foods in their chests. There is no benefit from spoiling food in an early stage other than it being annoying. It could be an option for hard core though.
Tier 2 = Like the sandwich example, a combination of two to three Tier 1 foods. These are the early stage foods that give buffs. They do not spoil and can be kept around longer.
Tier 3 = Foods crafted with 3-4 Tier 1 and Tier 2 foods that have stronger multiple buffs (still weaker than a potion though) that will spoil if not kept properly.
Coming from a mulitplayer standpoint, this makes a good deal of sense so that no one faction or person can hoard a ton of Tier 3 food in their inventory. Given that you can eat as soon as you have one hunger missing it is possible to stack these kinds of buffs relatively quickly.
This would open up the idea to an icebox and oven (for a proper kitchen). We could flesh out the idea a bit more but I do like the direction it is taking. Best of all this wouldn't change the basics of food either. All of this is if the player wants to gain a better standard of living so to speak.
When I get more time I will edit the OP with this.
Skorpion216 has a thread going on better stews. While replying, it struck me that we could restrict the better foods to having the requirement of being in a dish. Whether that's just bowls or we get plates or bento boxes, I don't know, but this would mean that the potion-worthy food couldn't be stacked - and I think that would go a long way toward avoiding hoarding problems.
It has always struck me as a little odd that mushroom stew, unlike other foods, requires one slot per item. This change would create a pattern that the stew then followed.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My nephews and I have started posting Minecraft videos on my YouTube channel! Fairly random, but enjoyable.
General schedule is 4 PM Mon-Fri and 10 AM Saturdays. Most popular MC vid so far is the one Vechs laughed at on Twitter!
I apologize for what looks like a repeated topic but this isn’t just another “add food” suggestion. While I do like the idea of adding more food into the game it needs to have some kind of larger purpose than keeping Steve full.
For example, there is no reason to choose steak over pork chops. For farming efficiency cows win over pigs due to the extra resource they drop so pigs are currently only useful if you want to ride them. Subsequently, once a player has a decent farm of livestock the crops start to lose value in regard to hunger and saturation fulfillment. Unless the player has a very specific play style, like not eating meat, the average player may not make bread ever again because the wheat is more valuable as a breeding tool.
Proposal
After looking at the Golden Apple and Rotten Flesh I thought what could work is giving craftable foods slight buffs similar to potions.
The great thing about this is that you can’t keep buffing yourself via food because Steve won’t eat if he is full. Also it won’t have the same buffs as potions, only a handful might overlap such as the Golden Apple’s regen ability. Another thing is that potions are usually a mid to late game item provided that the player likes using them. Food on the other hand is something that you need constantly so this gives early players or players who aren’t alchemy savvy to enjoy some kind of buff.
Again, just for clarification the food buffs won’t be nearly as strong as potions. If I were to use a scale of a 100 (0 being no buffs or enchants at all) to show off the power between the two, it would as follows:
Tier I potion = 35 Low tier food = 10
Tier II potion = 55 Highest tier food = 30
These values are for reference in relation on how powerful the buffs should be.
What should be food buffs?
Here is a list of status effects currently in the game’s code as well as a few I came up with.
Red = unavailable but in game, Bold = can be a food effect, Blue = not in game but could be
- Speed
- Slow
- Haste
- Mining Fatigue
- Strength
- Weakness
- Instant Health
- Instant Damage
- Health Boost (Temporary Increase hearts)
- Regeneration
- Poison
- Night Vision
- Blindness
- Jump Boost
- Burden (Lowers the ability to jump)
- Nausea
- Resistance
- Fire Resistance
- Water Breathing
- Invisibility
- Hunger
- Wither
The duration and strength of the effect is determined on the crafting recipe. Using this as a foundation we have the opportunity to introduce more food stuffs to eat:“Ham Sandwich” crafted using bread and cooked pork recovers 4 hunger points, 13.5 saturation and 12 strength (I used the value system of a 100 above for reference) that lasts for 20 seconds
“Roast Beef Sandwich” crafted with bread and cooked steak recovers 4 hunger points, 13.5 saturation and 12 resistance for 20 seconds
“Chicken Salad Sandwich” crafted with bread and cooked chicken recovers 3.5 hunger points, 8 saturation and 12 haste for 20 seconds
“Beef stew” crafted with cooked steak, 2 potatoes, 2 carrorts, 1 brown mushroom and a bowl recovers 5 hunger points, 16 saturation, 20 resistance, 3 health boost, 5 burden and 12 slow
*I got the stats of the foods from the wiki here: http://www.minecraft...net/wiki/Hunger
Those above are merely examples; I really just want to be able to convey the concept than have any singular food item. I also would like to see more variations of effects that may work in the Minecraft world. If I come up with anymore or if anyone has a good suggestion I will post it.
A few counter arguments
“We already have potions!”
I suspect I might still get this but just to clarify the food buffs are nowhere near as strong as potions. I want to keep those as late game items. I just want the opportunity to have food a better presence in the game.
“Health Boost is OP!”
In PvP, probably, but that is another thread to deal with the armor and enchants. Personally I think that system is a little unbalanced only in multiplayer. In both SSP and SMP I have encountered enough Pigmen to realize they can shred through your enchanted diamond armor if you’re not careful. Pigmen hold grudges forever. Besides, some people don’t like wearing armor and the extra health is non regenerative. Once you lose the temp health you need to eat the necessary food to gain it back again.
“Too much like an RPG!”
I see this get thrown around a lot and frankly I really don’t get it. Minecraft’s genre is Minecraft. It is what you want it to be. People like playing it in creative and using it as an art tool. Some create Adventure maps that may focus on a more RPG aspect but it isn’t limited to that. I have seen puzzle maps and platformers. People created sports games and a Super Smash Bros. type game. Then there are the Hunger games. If we’re talking about straight up survival then this proposal should be okay since it helps you survive better.
@AlpineKnot and PanJouda: I was actually worried it might be too weak but the thing that seperates potions from food is that you can keep reapplying potions as much as you want. Keep in mind that you can't eat if you're full. Plus these buffs aren't at all that strong compared to what a potion can do. I mainly want to keep this a lower end buff but something that can be used early on towards late game.
That is correct. The logic behind that is so that while it offers some minor things early game it won't be too OP later on when potions do become a factor. I suspect that with this idea in play it may be possible to stack like effects between food and potions. So you could in effect get a tier III effect for a short time. Also not all potion effects are available to food.
The food buffs is just a supplement really and it gives each food a unique property. In this way having more foods being introduced will have a purpose rather than just being pure aesthetics. Also I was toying with the idea that the higher tier the food gets you get some bad stuff along with it. Sort of how like the intial brewing system was introduced minus the randomness of it.
- A reason to craft better foods that isn't just about how much they refill.
- A justification for the addition of better food crafting, including an oven.
- A way for players who dislike the effects to ignore them: Just don't craft those foods, since the earlier foods suffice.
Instead of having a separate timer for the buff, have it last as long as saturation lasts (when your hunger bar starts shaking, the buff has worn off). This also gives a good reason to pay attention to saturation levels (right now, for me, they're only "anti-annoyance numbers": The better I saturate, the less I get bugged by the bouncing icons).In addition, this might be a good time to introduce food decay. Normal food doesn't decay (that'd just get irritating) - but anything that would give a buff does decay (except for the golden apple), unless stored in an icebox. (Might have additional food preservation techniques.) Let's say it stays good for 3 days before it decays, which means you wouldn't be running around with this stuff in your inventory; you'd either craft it when you need it or store it in the icebox and only carry what you'll eat in the next few days.
Icebox: A chest, but it keeps food cold. (Would love it to turn into a refrigerator if you stack it 2 high. Merely visual change; you could also stack it two sideways to get the normal large chest.) You craft a box around a block of snow or ice to make it. Either it works indefinitely, or it "burns" ice and snow like a furnace burns fuel. Snow blocks would probably be the most efficient fuel, and a stack of 64 snow blocks would last a really long time - maybe a week, maybe a month? If the icebox doesn't require fuel, then probably putting a regular chest in or near water would have the same effect.
And, obviously, an Oven, which'd be like a furnace with a crafting square involved.
My nephews and I have started posting Minecraft videos on my YouTube channel! Fairly random, but enjoyable.
General schedule is 4 PM Mon-Fri and 10 AM Saturdays. Most popular MC vid so far is the one Vechs laughed at on Twitter!
That is actually pretty awesome. I like the addition of decaying food for advanced foods. To be clear on that subject we can divide the foods into a tier system:
Tier 1 = includes all the current food we already have avaialble as well as for any new foods that only require a raw food to be cooked. I think it is also important that raw foods do not spoil. I don't really want to change that aspect of the game too much and I'm sure most people (including me) keep raw foods in their chests. There is no benefit from spoiling food in an early stage other than it being annoying. It could be an option for hard core though.
Tier 2 = Like the sandwich example, a combination of two to three Tier 1 foods. These are the early stage foods that give buffs. They do not spoil and can be kept around longer.
Tier 3 = Foods crafted with 3-4 Tier 1 and Tier 2 foods that have stronger multiple buffs (still weaker than a potion though) that will spoil if not kept properly.
Coming from a mulitplayer standpoint, this makes a good deal of sense so that no one faction or person can hoard a ton of Tier 3 food in their inventory. Given that you can eat as soon as you have one hunger missing it is possible to stack these kinds of buffs relatively quickly.
This would open up the idea to an icebox and oven (for a proper kitchen). We could flesh out the idea a bit more but I do like the direction it is taking. Best of all this wouldn't change the basics of food either. All of this is if the player wants to gain a better standard of living so to speak.
When I get more time I will edit the OP with this.
It has always struck me as a little odd that mushroom stew, unlike other foods, requires one slot per item. This change would create a pattern that the stew then followed.
My nephews and I have started posting Minecraft videos on my YouTube channel! Fairly random, but enjoyable.
General schedule is 4 PM Mon-Fri and 10 AM Saturdays. Most popular MC vid so far is the one Vechs laughed at on Twitter!
Half Support!