Let's start this off by saying that I have nothing against hardcore mode in general. I actually have a fairly rare view of it. Namely, I find it less stressful than Survival. There is, in fact, a good reason for this. In this game, when you use a resource, it's gone. Fairly simple concept, right? Well, Survival pretty much hinges on this. If you die, you drop everything. That means you have two options. One, you can accept the loss, expand your operations, and gather additional resources to replace what you lost, spending the whole game playing catch-up. Two, you can rush back to where you died, under-prepared when it killed you the first time, and hope that you manage to survive retrieving it, and that nothing was destroyed. Niether is particularly fun, and both are stressful. If you died at a base distant from your spawn, this can be even worse, potentially forcing you to get by with nothing in an area you may already have picked clean, or deemed unsuitable, until you can build yourself up enough to get back to where you were. At least, this is how Survival mode feels for me.
Hence, I actually play Survival to challenge myself, and play Hardcore to relax. There is something very liberating about starting a new map. It's a clean slate. All the resources are back again. Everything you do matters again. It's not, "Now I have to put all my plans on hold while I deal with this chore of recouping my losses.", but rather, "Well, those plans didn't work. Now I get to make all new ones.". Best of all, in Hardcore you never deal with, "I don't have any armour or tools now, and I mined out all the ores here ages ago.", because you will never be put in that position unless you're actually trying to break all your equipment. However, Hardcore is very limiting. It has no options whatsoever, and is always locked in at the highest difficulty. So here is what I propose; Hardcore should be replaced with a new difficulty - Rougelike.
Rougelike difficulty would have several similarities to the current Hardcore mode. Difficulty is locked for the entire session. There is no respawn on death, only world deletion and starting over. However, there would also be a few differences, to make a Rougelike playthrough more of a viable alternative to survival.
Difficulty can be set at world creation. Rather than being locked to Hard, it is locked to whatever the player selected.
Hunger follows Hard rules, regardless of difficulty, and also slowly depletes over time.
Health regeneration is slowed, and additional regenration in Peaceful mode is disabled.
As there is no respawning, compases point North.
Starter Chests may be enabled, but contain less/less valuable loot.
Cheats are disabled, just as they are with the curren Hardcore. However, select gamerules (as set by the "/gamerule" command) can be set as options from a menu at map creation.
Specifically - Fire Tick, Mob Loot, Mob Spawning, Tile Drops, and Mob Griefing can be controlled.
This allows people who want a game mode with permadeath to have it, while making the actual challenge configurable to each player's tastes. It can be a harder version of the current Hardcore on Hard, a pure survival game with no monsters where the only threat is accident or starvation on Peaceful, or anything in between using the various configuration options. In this way, Rougelike difficulty presents a viable alternative to Survival mode for almost any play style, rather than the current "Take it or leave it" approach of Hardcore.
Supported, though im not sure you need to have the peaceful rules in there. If you're playing hardcore (or roughlike) and you want to set it to peaceful, youre not playing hardcore anymore, its stupid. I say get rid of peaceful entirely
Supported, though im not sure you need to have the peaceful rules in there. If you're playing hardcore (or roughlike) and you want to set it to peaceful, youre not playing hardcore anymore, its stupid. I say get rid of peaceful entirely
Actually, the ability to play on Peaceful serves a very specific purpose. As regeneration and infinite hunger would both be disabled in Rougelike mode, this makes it as close to a pure survival experience as you can get. Combat is foregone, but the player must still gather resources and maintain a food supply to survive, something which is actually harder without mobs, as you lack bonemeal to quickly grow crops, rotten flesh for emergency food, or TNT to clear large spaces while seeking resources. Even fishing becomes a high-tier ability, without a source of string besides random webs. Unlike the gamerule to disable spawning, Peaceful mode also removes spawners, which means that it also makes automated mob traps impossible, further increasing the difficulty with a slower acquisition of resources and experience.
Actually, the ability to play on Peaceful serves a very specific purpose. As regeneration and infinite hunger would both be disabled in Rougelike mode, this makes it as close to a pure survival experience as you can get. Combat is foregone, but the player must still gather resources and maintain a food supply to survive, something which is actually harder without mobs, as you lack bonemeal to quickly grow crops, rotten flesh for emergency food, or TNT to clear large spaces while seeking resources. Even fishing becomes a high-tier ability, without a source of string besides random webs. Unlike the gamerule to disable spawning, Peaceful mode also removes spawners, which means that it also makes automated mob traps impossible, further increasing the difficulty with a slower acquisition of resources and experience.
That does make sense, though i still believe that if you are going to go into Hardcore or Rougelike mode, it would be stupid to turn off mobs. Just my opinion, though i can see how peaceful would be useful for that kind of thing.
Oh, and something that could be added to this, maybe food going bad. I dont know how well it fits with your idea, but i think it would add another level of "true survival". Like if you left cooked food in your inventory too long it would go through stages of rotting until it turned into rotten flesh. This is sort of more a "new item" type of suggestion, so maybe it belongs in its own thread, but just a suggestion
I like it, although you really don't need to start off a suggestion by baiting tons of people into flaming you.
This would actually make me play Hardcore/Roguelike, because I can make it how I want it. That being said, I do think that the Peaceful thing is silly. You say it would be harder, but without the hostile mobs you can devote all your time for the first day to getting food. Considering you start with about 15-30 animals within 50 blocks you have plenty of food to last you until you can start a small wheat farm. In fact, because there are no hostiles you don't even need to worry about torches or a shelter or anything, so you can devote the entire time to farming and raising animals. It would take you a day or so to get a wheat supply but after that it would never be a challenge again.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
I like it, although you really don't need to start off a suggestion by baiting tons of people into flaming you.
This would actually make me play Hardcore/Roguelike, because I can make it how I want it. That being said, I do think that the Peaceful thing is silly. You say it would be harder, but without the hostile mobs you can devote all your time for the first day to getting food. Considering you start with about 15-30 animals within 50 blocks you have plenty of food to last you until you can start a small wheat farm. In fact, because there are no hostiles you don't even need to worry about torches or a shelter or anything, so you can devote the entire time to farming and raising animals. It would take you a day or so to get a wheat supply but after that it would never be a challenge again.
This is true, but I think more illustrates a failing in the vanilla system. Food is simply very plentiful. I've tried to address this in part, by opting that hunger should be a more pressing and continuous need. However, I personally think that, at least for challenge gameplay, that needs to be addressed in greater detail, and I could devote an entire topic to my thoughts on it. In fact, I have, over in the modding section.
Since the two go hand-in-hand, I've added cross-promotion with my mod request for a more challenging hunger system.
Greetings mod forums visitors! Just a reminder, this is the Suggestions thread. It is for a feature proposed for Vanilla Minecraft.
I have no objections if you want to mod it, but try to keep mod discussion in the modding thread.
Since the two go hand-in-hand, I've added cross-promotion with my mod request for a more challenging hunger system.
Greetings mod forums visitors! Just a reminder, this is the Suggestions thread. It is for a feature proposed for Vanilla Minecraft.
I have no objections if you want to mod it, but try to keep mod discussion in the modding thread.
To be honest, I would make a Suggestion thread for that mod idea to appear in Vanilla, although I didn't like the bloated effect you mentioned there. But food is too easy of a resource to manage at this point, even on Hard, and it could use an overhaul. Right now the only time I bother eating is when my Hunger bar is empty or I run into a mob and don't have enough for health regeneration.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
To be honest, I would make a Suggestion thread for that mod idea to appear in Vanilla, although I didn't like the bloated effect you mentioned there. But food is too easy of a resource to manage at this point, even on Hard, and it could use an overhaul. Right now the only time I bother eating is when my Hunger bar is empty or I run into a mob and don't have enough for health regeneration.
Yeah. That was exactly why I came up with the idea. I realized that with rare exceptions when starting out in hardcore, I never worried about food. It's not a big enough issue most of the time, and when you do need it, there's plenty of time to build up a surplus you'll never go through. Even when I did run into a food issue, a patch of dirt without water, some sticks for a hoe, and some grass. Problem solved. Even better if I have bones, because then I didn't even have to leave the game running while I watch T.V. for the wheat to grow.
I may eventually make a suggestion out of my hunger overhauls, incorporating the suggestions I've gotten for making it difficulty-adjusted, but for now I'm willing to just let people see the concept.
Alright, I've taken out the line at the beginning that might offend some people. Here's hoping I don't get a flood of people who didn't read the topic for taking it out...
Actually, the ability to play on Peaceful serves a very specific purpose. As regeneration and infinite hunger would both be disabled in Rougelike mode, this makes it as close to a pure survival experience as you can get. Combat is foregone, but the player must still gather resources and maintain a food supply to survive, something which is actually harder without mobs, as you lack bonemeal to quickly grow crops, rotten flesh for emergency food, or TNT to clear large spaces while seeking resources. Even fishing becomes a high-tier ability, without a source of string besides random webs. Unlike the gamerule to disable spawning, Peaceful mode also removes spawners, which means that it also makes automated mob traps impossible, further increasing the difficulty with a slower acquisition of resources and experience.
I really wish normal peaceful was like this. As it is now peaceful is little more than creative with out the spawning in items and flying. At least with these in normal peaceful it would still make it difficult and keep it a 'survival' game mode. But I digress. I support this idea over all. I think the difficulty needs a bit of tweaking overall anyways and this fits in quite well with that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Humanity is the creation of Logic and Emotion, Calculation and Imagination, Cold Analysis and Blind Faith. This is why I believe it is a strange Human that would prize one while shunning the other. For a calculator can do math just as well as you, but a calculator can not use math to make the world a better place.
I really wish normal peaceful was like this. As it is now peaceful is little more than creative with out the spawning in items and flying. At least with these in normal peaceful it would still make it difficult and keep it a 'survival' game mode. But I digress. I support this idea over all. I think the difficulty needs a bit of tweaking overall anyways and this fits in quite well with that.
Very much agreed. I think a lot of the settings I'm suggesting could work very well as options in Survival as well, but it makes sense to suggest them here, as such configuration would be key to making a good universal challenge mode.
I don't tend to play Peaceful, but I recently found an awesome seed with a village right near your spawn, and after playing it for a good long while on Hard, I decided to give it a try and see what could happen on Peaceful. (I'd like to make a challenge for other players regarding this seed, and I needed to see what Peaceful people could be challenged to do.)
I'm not in it for two minutes before my immersion is broken: Hunger bar doesn't work. I've got tons of potatoes and carrots that do me absolutely no good. At least I can sell the wheat. But a little later I realize that I can't catch fish for one villager because there's no way to get string (I know where a mine shaft is due to a glitch, so I go down there for cobwebs, but imagine if I didn't know it was right under the spawn point?). In general, it all becomes far too easy, and thus boring.
This is why I think the hunger bar - and, by extention, any other management bars (thirst, temperature) - ought to be independent of difficulty. I'm interested in Peaceful with Hunger, and I know there's people who'd prefer Hard or even Hardcore without having to worry about food.
I haven't really delved into Hardcore because it's painful for me to lose stuff I was working on. I'm a cautious enough player as it is. But it might be nice to have an option, when you die, of switching the level to a normal setting at that point. Maybe some people wouldn't even like the option, but for me it would be a measure of how far I got before I screwed up, and maybe I'd like to stroll around looking over my creations before giving it up and moving on. Or switch from super-alert to a more laid back mode.
I will say that when I think about Survival at its core, then besides having to deal with hunger, thirst, and temperature concerns, I wouldn't be able to chop down a tree with my fists. I'd have to run around living off the land until I found some gravel, dig through it for flint, and making my first rudimentary tools before I could even get close to wood or stone. (Note: For this idea to work, tree foliage would have to drop sticks.)
P.S. I like the idea of food rotting over time (for hardcore mode only, or else something you could toggle for any mode). Perhaps you could slow the progress by making an icebox, or preserving the food in some way?
P.P.S. I would like to be free to set cheats or no cheats. There are things that I would like to be able to do via creative mode even in hardcore - flip modes for a building spree, or declare that creating a tree farm means I've got infinite wood (and don't have to waste my time on either wood or charcoal), or fly around for a bit trying to find my way back to my spawn point, whatever. The player should be able to allow himself access to cheats, or not, based on personal preference rather than game fiat.
My YouTube channel is currently on hiatus, but I hope to get back to it at some point. Content is fairly random, but can be enjoyable, and is mostly game footage (mostly random Minecraft clips) from my nephews and me. Most popular MC vid so far is the one Vechs laughed at on Twitter!
Hence, I actually play Survival to challenge myself, and play Hardcore to relax. There is something very liberating about starting a new map. It's a clean slate. All the resources are back again. Everything you do matters again. It's not, "Now I have to put all my plans on hold while I deal with this chore of recouping my losses.", but rather, "Well, those plans didn't work. Now I get to make all new ones.". Best of all, in Hardcore you never deal with, "I don't have any armour or tools now, and I mined out all the ores here ages ago.", because you will never be put in that position unless you're actually trying to break all your equipment. However, Hardcore is very limiting. It has no options whatsoever, and is always locked in at the highest difficulty. So here is what I propose; Hardcore should be replaced with a new difficulty - Rougelike.
Rougelike difficulty would have several similarities to the current Hardcore mode. Difficulty is locked for the entire session. There is no respawn on death, only world deletion and starting over. However, there would also be a few differences, to make a Rougelike playthrough more of a viable alternative to survival.
Also check out my Mod Request, Hardcore Hunger, for a more detailed approach to making food a concern.
Actually, the ability to play on Peaceful serves a very specific purpose. As regeneration and infinite hunger would both be disabled in Rougelike mode, this makes it as close to a pure survival experience as you can get. Combat is foregone, but the player must still gather resources and maintain a food supply to survive, something which is actually harder without mobs, as you lack bonemeal to quickly grow crops, rotten flesh for emergency food, or TNT to clear large spaces while seeking resources. Even fishing becomes a high-tier ability, without a source of string besides random webs. Unlike the gamerule to disable spawning, Peaceful mode also removes spawners, which means that it also makes automated mob traps impossible, further increasing the difficulty with a slower acquisition of resources and experience.
That does make sense, though i still believe that if you are going to go into Hardcore or Rougelike mode, it would be stupid to turn off mobs. Just my opinion, though i can see how peaceful would be useful for that kind of thing.
Click them or they will click you
I think thats in there already
Actually, I only said "less loot". Meant it both ways, though. Edited now to reflect that.
This would actually make me play Hardcore/Roguelike, because I can make it how I want it. That being said, I do think that the Peaceful thing is silly. You say it would be harder, but without the hostile mobs you can devote all your time for the first day to getting food. Considering you start with about 15-30 animals within 50 blocks you have plenty of food to last you until you can start a small wheat farm. In fact, because there are no hostiles you don't even need to worry about torches or a shelter or anything, so you can devote the entire time to farming and raising animals. It would take you a day or so to get a wheat supply but after that it would never be a challenge again.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum
This is true, but I think more illustrates a failing in the vanilla system. Food is simply very plentiful. I've tried to address this in part, by opting that hunger should be a more pressing and continuous need. However, I personally think that, at least for challenge gameplay, that needs to be addressed in greater detail, and I could devote an entire topic to my thoughts on it. In fact, I have, over in the modding section.
Greetings mod forums visitors! Just a reminder, this is the Suggestions thread. It is for a feature proposed for Vanilla Minecraft.
I have no objections if you want to mod it, but try to keep mod discussion in the modding thread.
To be honest, I would make a Suggestion thread for that mod idea to appear in Vanilla, although I didn't like the bloated effect you mentioned there. But food is too easy of a resource to manage at this point, even on Hard, and it could use an overhaul. Right now the only time I bother eating is when my Hunger bar is empty or I run into a mob and don't have enough for health regeneration.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum
Yeah. That was exactly why I came up with the idea. I realized that with rare exceptions when starting out in hardcore, I never worried about food. It's not a big enough issue most of the time, and when you do need it, there's plenty of time to build up a surplus you'll never go through. Even when I did run into a food issue, a patch of dirt without water, some sticks for a hoe, and some grass. Problem solved. Even better if I have bones, because then I didn't even have to leave the game running while I watch T.V. for the wheat to grow.
I may eventually make a suggestion out of my hunger overhauls, incorporating the suggestions I've gotten for making it difficulty-adjusted, but for now I'm willing to just let people see the concept.
Thank you very much.
I really wish normal peaceful was like this. As it is now peaceful is little more than creative with out the spawning in items and flying. At least with these in normal peaceful it would still make it difficult and keep it a 'survival' game mode. But I digress. I support this idea over all. I think the difficulty needs a bit of tweaking overall anyways and this fits in quite well with that.
Very much agreed. I think a lot of the settings I'm suggesting could work very well as options in Survival as well, but it makes sense to suggest them here, as such configuration would be key to making a good universal challenge mode.
I don't tend to play Peaceful, but I recently found an awesome seed with a village right near your spawn, and after playing it for a good long while on Hard, I decided to give it a try and see what could happen on Peaceful. (I'd like to make a challenge for other players regarding this seed, and I needed to see what Peaceful people could be challenged to do.)
I'm not in it for two minutes before my immersion is broken: Hunger bar doesn't work. I've got tons of potatoes and carrots that do me absolutely no good. At least I can sell the wheat. But a little later I realize that I can't catch fish for one villager because there's no way to get string (I know where a mine shaft is due to a glitch, so I go down there for cobwebs, but imagine if I didn't know it was right under the spawn point?). In general, it all becomes far too easy, and thus boring.
This is why I think the hunger bar - and, by extention, any other management bars (thirst, temperature) - ought to be independent of difficulty. I'm interested in Peaceful with Hunger, and I know there's people who'd prefer Hard or even Hardcore without having to worry about food.
I haven't really delved into Hardcore because it's painful for me to lose stuff I was working on. I'm a cautious enough player as it is. But it might be nice to have an option, when you die, of switching the level to a normal setting at that point. Maybe some people wouldn't even like the option, but for me it would be a measure of how far I got before I screwed up, and maybe I'd like to stroll around looking over my creations before giving it up and moving on. Or switch from super-alert to a more laid back mode.
I will say that when I think about Survival at its core, then besides having to deal with hunger, thirst, and temperature concerns, I wouldn't be able to chop down a tree with my fists. I'd have to run around living off the land until I found some gravel, dig through it for flint, and making my first rudimentary tools before I could even get close to wood or stone. (Note: For this idea to work, tree foliage would have to drop sticks.)
P.S. I like the idea of food rotting over time (for hardcore mode only, or else something you could toggle for any mode). Perhaps you could slow the progress by making an icebox, or preserving the food in some way?
P.P.S. I would like to be free to set cheats or no cheats. There are things that I would like to be able to do via creative mode even in hardcore - flip modes for a building spree, or declare that creating a tree farm means I've got infinite wood (and don't have to waste my time on either wood or charcoal), or fly around for a bit trying to find my way back to my spawn point, whatever. The player should be able to allow himself access to cheats, or not, based on personal preference rather than game fiat.
My YouTube channel is currently on hiatus, but I hope to get back to it at some point. Content is fairly random, but can be enjoyable, and is mostly game footage (mostly random Minecraft clips) from my nephews and me. Most popular MC vid so far is the one Vechs laughed at on Twitter!