Minecraft Forums

Quote from crazyapplezz

There should be mini moo shroom biomes that are kinda common

Definitely not!

The original poster's problem is mainly that he expressed his idea in the domain of personal subjectivity, instead of absolutism.

Saying that something should be say 10% less rare, is like saying there should be fireposts every 900 feet instead of every 1000 feet. Then every other person would have a different personal threshold and then it all boils down to a matter of personal preferences. Nitpicking ensues. Such a small difference wouldn't really matter.

Saying that something should be "still rare but less rare" is also a matter of relative perception.

Use numbers, man! Prove your point! If you're not willing to do the actual "research" yourself, then of course your post falls down to a mere unsupported opinion, and you should not be surprised that most posters will seem to stand against you. In any case, expecting more than a small minority of the rest of the world to say the exact same thing as you, and taking a semi-hostile stance against everyone else, means someone is unable to cope with the sheer simple reality of that kind of social situation, which is not the most mature of reactions in and of itself.

And yes, using all caps, bold and underline, repeatedly, still represent pushing your tone of "voice" upwards. "'Making sure you read me" is in fact insulting to the person to whom you talk, as if the other was too lazy or too stupid or too deceitful to read the entire reply in a thread he is already actively taking part of. This is also a sign of immaturity.

So please calm down a bit, ok?


Ideally, in such discussions about the rarity of things in Minecraft, the basic "area unit" should be a max zoomed Minecraft Map Item as the basic unit area = 2048x2048, usually rounded to 2000x2000 blocks. Anything less than that simply means that the person did NOT do its homework and actually is pushing forward an illogical statement : wanting stuff to be rare yet always not far from spawn.

An explored area should not be limited to near spawn. For example, if you explore only 200 blocks away in all directions from spawn, on millions of different random seeds, you will never find a single Stronghold because the 3 Strongholds are spawned in a circle around spawn (or the zero coordinate, I'm not sure) that has a radius between 600 and 1200 or something around that.

On a server I played on, the map, now over 90% explored, is 32000x32000 blocks, and using simple software, I counted 41 Mushroom Island biomes. Let's say 40 to round things up in your favor. The distribution did not look even, several mushroom islands tended to "clump up" a little in some areas in some oceans (still quite big areas -- definitely not so you could usually see one mushroom island from another).

32000x32000 blocks is 256 Minecraft maps (max zoom level). 40/256 = 5/32. This means that, on average, you need to explore 6.4 maps worth of area to find 1 mushroom biome. I said "on average" because, again, since the islands aren't evenly distributed, this will vary wildly. You may find several islands in a single 2048x2048 map area, or explore tens of maps without finding anything. By the way, that is the very definition of rare stuff: you have absolutely no guarantee of getting one. so let's nearly triple the area searched "just to make sure", up to 16 map areas.

I don't know if all generated maps look the same over humongous distances i.e. huge oceans dotted with continents of varying sizes, but from my experience I think they do. Still, it would be nice if we had more than a single world upon which to draw an average from.

So, the current average is:

On average, in a world generated with approximately the same biome distribution as a sample of one server with a 32000x32000 map with about 2 to 3 times as much ocean than land, in a 4x4 "MCmap" area (i.e. 8192x8192 blocks), a player will find 2.5 Mushroom Island biomes.

Of course, this assumes exploring the oceans. Mushroom biomes near or touching continents occur about 1/20 of the usual frequency. This is a very imprecise estimate because there were only 2 such mushroom biomes that were "half inside" a continent on the server map that I analyzed. Still, it is quite clear that mushroom biomes do tend strongly to be located well away from continents. According to my analysis, the "center" parts of oceans seem to have more than the sides.



Now, the biggest problem with all this is that exploring the ocean is extremely boring. The fastest "survival legit" exploration speed is by boat, at 6.2 blocks per second, but it has some problems: hard to "stay on course" and gotta be careful not to hit squids, for those sometimes, rarely but this happens, will move at the surface, so your actual speed will be something more like between 5 and 6 blocks per second. Even if you max your video render distance to 15 chunks (default value is 10 in the game), you map out only a "path" 480 blocks wide by 300 blocks long each minute. A typical map area, at 2048x2048, would thus require 5 "passes", each pass about 7 minutes long, = more than half an hour of extremely boring exploration per map.

Thus, the previous statement can be rephrased:

On average, in a world generated with approximately the same biome distribution as a sample of one server with a 32000x32000 map with about 2 to 3 times as much ocean than land, a player exploring oceans will find 2.5 mushroom biomes after 10 hours of exploration.

So that's 4 hours per each. Since the distribution is uneven, you might "luck out" and find one after only one hour. Or you might spend scores of hours trying to find one.

If exploring the oceans was fun, I'd agree that finding a mushroom biome after a full day of exploration play would be ok. But they're boring, so much so that trying to find a mushroom biome is just torturous, plain and simple.

To me the problem is more the humongous ocean sizes than the rarity of mushroom islands.

Quote from Ouatcheur

Definitely not!

The original poster's problem is mainly that he expressed his idea in the domain of personal subjectivity, instead of absolutism.

Saying that something should be say 10% less rare, is like saying there should be fireposts every 900 feet instead of every 1000 feet. Then every other person would have a different personal threshold and then it all boils down to a matter of personal preferences. Nitpicking ensues. Such a small difference wouldn't really matter.

Saying that something should be "still rare but less rare" is also a matter of relative perception.

Use numbers, man! Prove your point! If you're not willing to do the actual "research" yourself, then of course your post falls down to a mere unsupported opinion, and you should not be surprised that most posters will seem to stand against you. In any case, expecting more than a small minority of the rest of the world to say the exact same thing as you, and taking a semi-hostile stance against everyone else, means someone is unable to cope with the sheer simple reality of that kind of social situation, which is not the most mature of reactions in and of itself.

And yes, using all caps, bold and underline, repeatedly, still represent pushing your tone of "voice" upwards. "'Making sure you read me" is in fact insulting to the person to whom you talk, as if the other was too lazy or too stupid or too deceitful to read the entire reply in a thread he is already actively taking part of. This is also a sign of immaturity.

So please calm down a bit, ok?


Ideally, in such discussions about the rarity of things in Minecraft, the basic "area unit" should be a max zoomed Minecraft Map Item as the basic unit area = 2048x2048, usually rounded to 2000x2000 blocks. Anything less than that simply means that the person did NOT do its homework and actually is pushing forward an illogical statement : wanting stuff to be rare yet always not far from spawn.

An explored area should not be limited to near spawn. For example, if you explore only 200 blocks away in all directions from spawn, on millions of different random seeds, you will never find a single Stronghold because the 3 Strongholds are spawned in a circle around spawn (or the zero coordinate, I'm not sure) that has a radius between 600 and 1200 or something around that.

On a server I played on, the map, now over 90% explored, is 32000x32000 blocks, and using simple software, I counted 41 Mushroom Island biomes. Let's say 40 to round things up in your favor. The distribution did not look even, several mushroom islands tended to "clump up" a little in some areas in some oceans (still quite big areas -- definitely not so you could usually see one mushroom island from another).

32000x32000 blocks is 256 Minecraft maps (max zoom level). 40/256 = 5/32. This means that, on average, you need to explore 6.4 maps worth of area to find 1 mushroom biome. I said "on average" because, again, since the islands aren't evenly distributed, this will vary wildly. You may find several islands in a single 2048x2048 map area, or explore tens of maps without finding anything. By the way, that is the very definition of rare stuff: you have absolutely no guarantee of getting one. so let's nearly triple the area searched "just to make sure", up to 16 map areas.

I don't know if all generated maps look the same over humongous distances i.e. huge oceans dotted with continents of varying sizes, but from my experience I think they do. Still, it would be nice if we had more than a single world upon which to draw an average from.

So, the current average is:

On average, in a world generated with approximately the same biome distribution as a sample of one server with a 32000x32000 map with about 2 to 3 times as much ocean than land, in a 4x4 "MCmap" area (i.e. 8192x8192 blocks), a player will find 2.5 Mushroom Island biomes.

Of course, this assumes exploring the oceans. Mushroom biomes near or touching continents occur about 1/20 of the usual frequency. This is a very imprecise estimate because there were only 2 such mushroom biomes that were "half inside" a continent on the server map that I analyzed. Still, it is quite clear that mushroom biomes do tend strongly to be located well away from continents. According to my analysis, the "center" parts of oceans seem to have more than the sides.



Now, the biggest problem with all this is that exploring the ocean is extremely boring. The fastest "survival legit" exploration speed is by boat, at 6.2 blocks per second, but it has some problems: hard to "stay on course" and gotta be careful not to hit squids, for those sometimes, rarely but this happens, will move at the surface, so your actual speed will be something more like between 5 and 6 blocks per second. Even if you max your video render distance to 15 chunks (default value is 10 in the game), you map out only a "path" 480 blocks wide by 300 blocks long each minute. A typical map area, at 2048x2048, would thus require 5 "passes", each pass about 7 minutes long, = more than half an hour of extremely boring exploration per map.

Thus, the previous statement can be rephrased:

On average, in a world generated with approximately the same biome distribution as a sample of one server with a 32000x32000 map with about 2 to 3 times as much ocean than land, a player exploring oceans will find 2.5 mushroom biomes after 10 hours of exploration.

So that's 4 hours per each. Since the distribution is uneven, you might "luck out" and find one after only one hour. Or you might spend scores of hours trying to find one.

If exploring the oceans was fun, I'd agree that finding a mushroom biome after a full day of exploration play would be ok. But they're boring, so much so that trying to find a mushroom biome is just torturous, plain and simple.

To me the problem is more the humongous ocean sizes than the rarity of mushroom islands.

Wow. That is a long post. Too long didn't read.

Quote from WizardBuddy2

Wow. That is a long post. Too long didn't read.

And you wonder why your suggestion isn't being supported too much?

You are correct. Mushroom Islands are a bit too rare. I still want it to be rare, but a little less uncommon. Support.

Quote from Ouatcheur

To me the problem is more the humongous ocean sizes than the rarity of mushroom islands.

There are reasons to like humongous oceans though. For one thing, any continent in a huge server like yours, is going to be plenty big enough for multiplayer play, and building, to occur on. If you change the ocean size, you're filling up all that area with land instead, which is land you don't need.

I think you hit on the right idea when you said the problem is that ocean exploration is boring. On one hand, it's not for everyone; so I'd say it's not necessary to make ocean travel interesting for everyone. But it remains true that ocean travel could be improved and made more interesting for some of us. Hence my "Paradise Island" suggestion, but could also be a bunch of different types of islands. Like maybe a volcano island, etc.

In the real world, of course, ocean travel is also extremely boring. The only things that make it interesting in the storybooks, are islands, the occasional animals, and the weather. Ocean travel in Minecraft could be a lot more interesting if you added schools of flying fish, sea turtles, whales, albatrosses, etc. Then code in some Minecraft weather, including wind (or calm), waves, and storms. And then make it possible to build ships that you can actually sail.

Noting the lack of ocean-going mobs, sure we have squid, but that's only one ocean-bound mob, compared to the land's four (not counting spiders).

Support.

Also, it would be cool if there was a scouting feature. If you pillar up super-high, you should be given a hint of where islands might be. This only makes sense because it works in the real world. But it would require a pretty substantial change in how the game renders things. I'm thinking outside of the actual loaded chunks, the game could generate a 2D image of your world projected onto a flat plain, using a similar method to AMIDST.

They are 100x rarer than other biomes, they are too hard to find. RIDICOLOUS I only find it with seed 4. Mother of God...

Support. I have only ever found one mushroom biome, but that was on the Xbox. I hope they lower the rarity of these at least a tiny bit. WAY too rare...

Quote from Calacbolg

Why? The only unique resource is Mycelium.

Well they can be improved in the future, and in general, they're a novelty. They're one of the only things that motivates people to explore. He's suggesting that they be LESS rare, as they're 100 times as rare as other biomes, which is way too rare. I've only ever found 1 legitimately, without a seed or mods, and that was on some server with a massive ocean for the spawn area.

.

Agreed, they're way too rare, and are one of the few places left in minecraft that you can find good terrain.

i play since 1.2.5 and found 7 shroom islands by swimming in oceans. Of course my maps were a good 100 MB. So, yes I agree it shoudl be nerfed to be more frequent.

Quote from Calacbolg

And you wonder why your suggestion isn't being supported too much?

What exactly do you mean? And it gets plenty support...

Quote from WizardBuddy2

What exactly do you mean? And it gets plenty support...

I think he meant, if you're not willing to read other people's posts, why should you expect people to read yours?

I think the only reason you get support is because you pointed out a legitimate problem in Minecraft in the title of the thread. You didn't post a substantive solution though.

Quote from Spaceboot1

I think he meant, if you're not willing to read other people's posts, why should you expect people to read yours?

I think the only reason you get support is because you pointed out a legitimate problem in Minecraft in the title of the thread. You didn't post a substantive solution though.

Oh I read other people's posts, but I don't really have time to read almost a whole page of writing jk I was just tired that day. I posted this topic to get solutions, not to pose them.

Quote from zanderboycherry

I agree, ive only found one mushroom island my whole life. i dont know if i found it because i was using a mod but they are rare. id like them to bee less rare

You used a mod to find one?

A mushroom island removes any worry of starvation. You've basically got infinite food once you find one. Anyways, get a fully zoomed out map, explore it, you'll most likely find one.

No support.

And yes I've found one.

I have found 1 legit mushroom island and 1 mushroom biome that i can remember. They are really rare, I think they should be scattered in the oceans more, it would give more ambition to host the sails and sill in to the deep blue.

Quote from jokrage

A mushroom island removes any worry of starvation. You've basically got infinite food once you find one. Anyways, get a fully zoomed out map, explore it, you'll most likely find one.

No support.

And yes I've found one.

You are clearly missing my point. First of all, food isn't a big deal, you can say wheat farms are OP because those are infinate food in themselves. Second of all, THE'LL STILL BE RARE HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS?!? Third of all, I'VE EXPLORED LIKE 20 WHOLE MAPS AND NEVER FOUND ONE, 20 MAPS FULL OF OCEAN!