Ya know RPG fetchquests? Those stupid-but-necessary missions usually with little to no valuable reward that designers put into games just to fill gameplay time? If a newbie asked me what the Minecradt NPC villages were like, I'd say they're kind of like a videogame purgatory where you repeat an RPGs most unnecessary fetchquest for eternity.
Buy useless junk to open up an option to sell easily-obtainable material to aquire enough emeralds to afford more useless junk in order to finally maybe (though probably not) unlock one decent item to buy. By the time ya widdle that Blacksmith down just to sell a chainmail helmet for 25 emeralds, you've spent 10 hours of gameplay time and WAY too many emeralds. But wait...you wanted chainmail pants...
This post is about why trading with villagers is impractical and my suggestions to possibly fix or at least improve on it. First of all, it is not the fact that the villager's trades are so expensive that makes them suck. Minecraft is a hard game. Valuable items aren't earned easily. It shouldn't be easy to be rich in emeralds.
The problem is the basic trading SYSTEM. Each new villager begins with one trade. He might be looking to buy raw material, or, more likely, he'll be looking to sell something for your rupe--uh, emeralds. The problem with this singular, randomized option is that 99.9% of the time the item for sale is utter &%$#. The problem isn't that it's too expensive, it's that it's something you would never even *bother* to spend money on in the first place...AND it's expensive! Yet, it's your only option, and you HAVE to buy it to progress. Well, actually, you can either buy THAT piece of junk item or some other villager's piece of junk item. Either way, it sucks. And then you'll open up the second random trade option...which will probably be equally ridiculously useless. Rinse and repeat until you decide to try it on another villager cuz this one suddenly wants like 15 emeralds for some bread after you just spent 20 on his garbage. Con artist mofo!
In essence, the game requires you to be rich in order to make even basically useful trades, because, on top of actually purchasing the items you DO want (which you may or may not ever find), you have to buy up everyone's not-very-cheap crap items to get there. And to top it off, you never KNOW what randomized trade option you'll get next in line, except that it'll be an item that relates to the villager's occupation. You're in all or nothin in a gamble with poor odds. That's not how an economy should work. Even for a videogame, it's featherbrained.
Ok, so BongaFish can whine. But has he any practical ideas?
Yes, I has.
Keep it expensive. Keep it limited and keep the ability to unlock new trades. But give us a BIT more leeway, for Notch's sake. Let the villagers offer us a list of buyable items, either a big list that includes some crappy items or a small list of decent items, but keep the really good stuff as unlockables. At least start us off with some choices. Also, include the option to SELL items right off the bat. Either make a pawnshop villager (that's actually a pretty sweet idea) or enable most villagers to buy one item. I'm sick of buying items in hopes to find a guy who will buy something I can sell. The option to sell shouldn't be a locked option unless it's a special circumstance.
Heck, a pawnshop villager might solve all the problems singlehadedly. But I really don't want more-easily-obtained-emeralds to be the cheap fix to this dumb system, so moving on...
I think the partial reason behind these crappy limited-trade options is due to there being a lack of real valuable items in Minecraft in general. How can ya give us a big ol' list of decent trades that varies for every single villager when most of the stuff we really want is the raw material that we gather in bulk and 90% of all other items are quite accessable for free.
So, here's a suggestion that may make it easier to keep a well balenced variety in trading: Each occupation per village sells the same basic five items, but their unlockables are different. Therefore, the initial list doesn't have to vary, yet it doesn't nullify the necessity for more than one villager per occupation, since they'll all have their own randomized unlockables. I also think that unlockables should be visible. At least the next unlockable in line, so even if I'm still forced to buy a bit of junk, I'll know what I'm unlocking for the charity.
I'm not trying to solve the problem here, but I definitly think this basic explaination would help to put things into percpective and get gears turning about how to improve upon this awkward NPC market system. Anyway, that's all I got. I'm sure you can build upon it.
Well, close, but not necessarily. I don't really expect the player to be the *supplier* of all the raw materials the villager would need to make their items. That would kind of nullify the purpose of buying it off them when you could just use that raw material to make the item yourself.
Unless you mean, for example, selling the librarian paper and leather once unlocks the option to buy books forever. In that case, that's more specific than I had in mind, but a good idea. I was imagining the unlockable new merchandise to be randomized when you do business in general with the villager, not based on what raw material you sell the villager, but I think you might be onto something...
What you said essentially adds to my idea. That could certainly work. Sell three iron and sticks to a blacksmith, unlock iron swords. Sell raw chicken to the butcher and unlock chickens. There may not need to be a "Basic" list at all if that's the case. Then you could essentially choose what to unlock, and have that item available to buy instead of having to gather the raw materials all the time. I like it!
I'm going to have to disagree with you on some points. Yes, some villager trades may be complete ripoffs *cough*fivediamondsoneemerald*cough*, but once you find the guy that buys wheat or paper, and the guy that sells diamond tools and armor, you are pretty much loaded. If no one in your village has those trades, there's an incentive to build more houses for them.
You know the whole "villager relations" thing they added recently? It could be used to change the trading system. The more they like you, the more trade options you get.
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Ya know RPG fetchquests? Those stupid-but-necessary missions usually with little to no valuable reward that designers put into games just to fill gameplay time? If a newbie asked me what the Minecradt NPC villages were like, I'd say they're kind of like a videogame purgatory where you repeat an RPGs most unnecessary fetchquest for eternity.
Buy useless junk to open up an option to sell easily-obtainable material to aquire enough emeralds to afford more useless junk in order to finally maybe (though probably not) unlock one decent item to buy. By the time ya widdle that Blacksmith down just to sell a chainmail helmet for 25 emeralds, you've spent 10 hours of gameplay time and WAY too many emeralds. But wait...you wanted chainmail pants...
This post is about why trading with villagers is impractical and my suggestions to possibly fix or at least improve on it. First of all, it is not the fact that the villager's trades are so expensive that makes them suck. Minecraft is a hard game. Valuable items aren't earned easily. It shouldn't be easy to be rich in emeralds.
The problem is the basic trading SYSTEM. Each new villager begins with one trade. He might be looking to buy raw material, or, more likely, he'll be looking to sell something for your rupe--uh, emeralds. The problem with this singular, randomized option is that 99.9% of the time the item for sale is utter &%$#. The problem isn't that it's too expensive, it's that it's something you would never even *bother* to spend money on in the first place...AND it's expensive! Yet, it's your only option, and you HAVE to buy it to progress. Well, actually, you can either buy THAT piece of junk item or some other villager's piece of junk item. Either way, it sucks. And then you'll open up the second random trade option...which will probably be equally ridiculously useless. Rinse and repeat until you decide to try it on another villager cuz this one suddenly wants like 15 emeralds for some bread after you just spent 20 on his garbage. Con artist mofo!
In essence, the game requires you to be rich in order to make even basically useful trades, because, on top of actually purchasing the items you DO want (which you may or may not ever find), you have to buy up everyone's not-very-cheap crap items to get there. And to top it off, you never KNOW what randomized trade option you'll get next in line, except that it'll be an item that relates to the villager's occupation. You're in all or nothin in a gamble with poor odds. That's not how an economy should work. Even for a videogame, it's featherbrained.
Ok, so BongaFish can whine. But has he any practical ideas?
Yes, I has.
Keep it expensive. Keep it limited and keep the ability to unlock new trades. But give us a BIT more leeway, for Notch's sake. Let the villagers offer us a list of buyable items, either a big list that includes some crappy items or a small list of decent items, but keep the really good stuff as unlockables. At least start us off with some choices. Also, include the option to SELL items right off the bat. Either make a pawnshop villager (that's actually a pretty sweet idea) or enable most villagers to buy one item. I'm sick of buying items in hopes to find a guy who will buy something I can sell. The option to sell shouldn't be a locked option unless it's a special circumstance.
Heck, a pawnshop villager might solve all the problems singlehadedly. But I really don't want more-easily-obtained-emeralds to be the cheap fix to this dumb system, so moving on...
I think the partial reason behind these crappy limited-trade options is due to there being a lack of real valuable items in Minecraft in general. How can ya give us a big ol' list of decent trades that varies for every single villager when most of the stuff we really want is the raw material that we gather in bulk and 90% of all other items are quite accessable for free.
So, here's a suggestion that may make it easier to keep a well balenced variety in trading: Each occupation per village sells the same basic five items, but their unlockables are different. Therefore, the initial list doesn't have to vary, yet it doesn't nullify the necessity for more than one villager per occupation, since they'll all have their own randomized unlockables. I also think that unlockables should be visible. At least the next unlockable in line, so even if I'm still forced to buy a bit of junk, I'll know what I'm unlocking for the charity.
I'm not trying to solve the problem here, but I definitly think this basic explaination would help to put things into percpective and get gears turning about how to improve upon this awkward NPC market system. Anyway, that's all I got. I'm sure you can build upon it.
(Tell me if I got it properly)
Librarian
-Buys Paper -Basic-
--Sells Book (Also needs leather)
--Sells Bookshelf (Also needs leather and wooden planks)
--Sells Written Book (Also needs leather, ink sac, and feather)
--Sells Empty Map (Also needs compass)
-Buys Leather -Basic-
--Sells Book (Also needs paper)
--Sells Written Book (Also needs inc sac and feather)
-Buys Wooden Planks -Basic-
--Sells Bookshelf (Also needs book/ [leather and paper])
-Buys Book
--Sells Written Book (Also needs inc sac and feather)
-Buys Inc Sac -Basic-
--Sells Written Book (Also needs book/[leather and paper] and feather)
-Buys Feather -Basic-
--Sells Written Book (Also needs book/[leather and paper] and inc sac
-Buys/Sells Clock -Basic-
-Buys Compass -Basic-
--Sells Map (Also requires paper)
Unless you mean, for example, selling the librarian paper and leather once unlocks the option to buy books forever. In that case, that's more specific than I had in mind, but a good idea. I was imagining the unlockable new merchandise to be randomized when you do business in general with the villager, not based on what raw material you sell the villager, but I think you might be onto something...
What you said essentially adds to my idea. That could certainly work. Sell three iron and sticks to a blacksmith, unlock iron swords. Sell raw chicken to the butcher and unlock chickens. There may not need to be a "Basic" list at all if that's the case. Then you could essentially choose what to unlock, and have that item available to buy instead of having to gather the raw materials all the time. I like it!