As a gesture of courtesy to the TL;DR crowd, my thesis: well timed blocks should stun the attacker for a brief moment, to allow for strategic counter-attacks.
Blocking isn't useless by any means, but it could be improved. As it stands, it reduces the damage, but does little to actually turn the tide of battle. It's currently much easier to just try sidestepping or hopping out of the way, which you can't do with the reduced movement speed of a block anyway. In most cases a successfully blocked attack doesn't actually put you in any better a position than before, since the second attack is on its way already.
My suggestion aims to make blocking more universally useful, but to also introduce an element of player-skill as opposed to RPG elements.
Here's how it would work. Blocking would continue to reduce damage and movement speed as it currently does; however, blocking within a certain "attack window" just before your attacker lands a blow would cause a sort of stagger or fumble, with a special sound as an audio cue to both players. The effect of this can vary depending on what is more balanced, but I propose:
The attacker is rendered unable to swing their sword for a second or more.
AND
The attacker is displaced slightly, moving backwards a block or maybe a bit to one side or the other.
The defender is NOT stunned, and now has the chance to get a quick hit in without fear of counter attack, or to escape, switch weapons, or simply reposition themself to a more beneficial position.
The audio cue serves as a signal both to the attacker (so they don't think their game has broken somehow) and to the defender (so they know they were successful, and can launch their counter).
In order for this to work and not be totally stupid, it is vitally important that the following rules be observed:
To be successful, the defender MUST have executed their block just as the attacker's strike lands. Constantly blocking does NOT trigger the stun, or any effect other than what blocking normally does. Timing is key.
AND
If the defender quickly blocks more than once in a row, they forfeit their stun effect. This is so the defender can not rapidly right-click to make themselves immune to swords. Dropping a block that has been held for a second or more, and quickly re-instating it, however, should be valid, since the player isn't spamming and is gambling their half-damage immunity on their sense of timing. That's cool, bro, hope it works out for you.
AND
The defender must be facing the attacker. This one is obvious, but important: if you somehow manage to time a perfect block with your back to the opponent, well, good for you, but you get nothing.
AND
The window for the stun should be very small, as should the duration of the stun. The point is for skilled players with sharp reflexes (or just really lucky latency, I guess?) to be able to retake control of the battle from a hasty enemy. It is NOT supposed to allow for an instant kill; it turns the tide, but does not win the duel. If the defender is getting multiple strikes in as a result, it's not working right, and the attacker probably isn't having much fun. On one hand, they deserve it, but on the other, we aren't asking them to please push the keyboard away and go make a sandwich. The attacker still get to play, after all, and they should be able to recover from their mistake.
The thing that all of this counters, is attack spam. The thing that it introduces? Timing, maybe even a sort of rhythm element if you can measure your opponent's pace. If nothing else, you can catch a lucky break on your dial-up connection, I don't know.
I know spamming the left-click is not the only thing you can do in a PvP/PvE environment. But it's silly to pretend it doesn't happen, and the fact that it's a nubcake thing to do actually kind of furthers my point. I like the idea that a veteran dueler could control the flow of the battle against a noobie that just holds down the space bar and clicks really fast. Plus it gives some more function to the current block feature, which, while it has its uses, could be a feature that players have more incentive to actually try!
Plus, this is a feature in a lot of fighting games, and while it's difficult to master, it feels really really good when you finally manage to pull it off! That didn't come out right. Hmn.
Anyway, that was, in essence, my suggestion. I accept that it isn't perfect, and I welcome the community to propose tweaks. Should the stun be longer or shorter than a second? Does the defender nullify all damage from a perfect block? An increased amount? Less? How far does the attacker move, if at all? What rules would you add or take away? How would this work against the mobs of Minecraft? Arrows? Potions?
I know Jeb is never going to read this, but I believe the point of a Suggestions forum is that a well developed idea has a chance of seeing the light of day, and I'd like to see this happen if it can work while still being fun for everybody.
Please discuss. <3
Later Edit: The following is a brainstormed list of community-contributed ideas for this feature! Bear in mind they don't all have to be implemented at once, but are indicative of the many options the Mojang staff would have to keep this mechanic balanced and fun for everyone! Keep em comin'!
A visual effect that further disorients the attacker when their strike is deflected. (KaosRitual)
Deflection or reflection of projectiles from skeletons and ghasts. (KaosRitual)
A dedicated pose for the stunned character's model, so onlookers can tell when they have recovered. Maybe recycling the sneak animation with some edits would be easiest? (EnderBorn1)
Some kind of sword movement (especially from first person) to indicate a successful stun. (EnderBorn1)
Some attack animations for direct-combat oriented mobs, to help timing in PvE (yoshidude56)
Seems like a good idea. I would get behind this if I ever would need a use for it. I don't ever PVP so this would never really come in handy but I support.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A modded looking for dedicated (at least consistent) texture artists/modelers to make magic with! Not literally magic...but...mods! PM me...
Seems like a good idea. I would get behind this if I ever would need a use for it. I don't ever PVP so this would never really come in handy but I support.
Hm, well can you think of any way this could be useful for mobs? I'd like for it to be a thing everyone can find use for, since right now blocking is sort of a niche ability. Skeletons and ghasts have timing elements, but zombies don't have animations.
Seems like a handy little feature, maybe arrows could rebound if blocked at the right time, also if nausea was to be inflicted upon the attacker for 3 or 4 seconds after a well timed block.
Sure, arrows would be cool, too, though what would you want them to do exactly? I could see parrying an arrow with a well timed block, but I'm having trouble imagining them having enough momentum to actually fly back at the attacker. It'd probably look really silly.
Also, what do you mean by nausea? Like, the food poisoning effect?
For nausea, I mean the disorienting effect where everything goes swirly.
Maybe the arrows wouldn't work, but it could work for ghast fireballs? Instead of just punching them to reflect them(I once killed a ghast with nothing in my inventory) you would have to use the blocking.
Also, thanks
Oh, I see!
Yeah, maybe some kind of visual effect would be appropriate. This could serve a couple of purposes; one to reinforce that the effect has been triggered, and another to add additional difficulty to the recovery. As long as it isn't too jarring, we don't want the attacker getting queasy!
I'll add that and your suggestions on projectiles to the end of the OP. It'll help keep track of community contributions!
when the attacker is blocked could the sneaking animation happen but backwards? (by that I mean the legs are strate and the body is leaning backwards?)
also for the attacker the sword should't bounce like a bouncy ball off of the defender's sword but it should SOMEWHAT bounce off
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
SUPPORT THEM!!!!! (also if your a new please click on the picture)
when the attacker is blocked could the sneaking animation happen but backwards? (by that I mean the legs are strate and the body is leaning backwards?)
also for the attacker the sword should't bounce like a bouncy ball off of the defender's sword but it should SOMEWHAT bounce off
Also a good idea, if I'm understanding you correctly. So basically your "backwards sneak" is suggesting an animation for the stun, itself? That'd let the defender gauge when the attacker had fully recovered. Good call.
How about this: All mobs use an attack animation when damaging the player, so you can block their attacks too (obviously not creepers though.)
This is ambitious, but I definitely think it'd be a must if this idea were to work in PvE!
You need some sort of visual feedback with zombies and such so you know when to block. Do you think it'd be hard to make animations for them?
Regardless, suggestion definitely added. I feel like I'd kind of appreciate those animations even without the blocking update, just because I'm tired of being hit from imperceptibly touching a hitbox.
Blocking isn't useless by any means, but it could be improved. As it stands, it reduces the damage, but does little to actually turn the tide of battle. It's currently much easier to just try sidestepping or hopping out of the way, which you can't do with the reduced movement speed of a block anyway. In most cases a successfully blocked attack doesn't actually put you in any better a position than before, since the second attack is on its way already.
My suggestion aims to make blocking more universally useful, but to also introduce an element of player-skill as opposed to RPG elements.
Here's how it would work. Blocking would continue to reduce damage and movement speed as it currently does; however, blocking within a certain "attack window" just before your attacker lands a blow would cause a sort of stagger or fumble, with a special sound as an audio cue to both players. The effect of this can vary depending on what is more balanced, but I propose:
- The attacker is displaced slightly, moving backwards a block or maybe a bit to one side or the other.
The defender is NOT stunned, and now has the chance to get a quick hit in without fear of counter attack, or to escape, switch weapons, or simply reposition themself to a more beneficial position.The audio cue serves as a signal both to the attacker (so they don't think their game has broken somehow) and to the defender (so they know they were successful, and can launch their counter).
In order for this to work and not be totally stupid, it is vitally important that the following rules be observed:
- The window for the stun should be very small, as should the duration of the stun. The point is for skilled players with sharp reflexes (or just really lucky latency, I guess?) to be able to retake control of the battle from a hasty enemy. It is NOT supposed to allow for an instant kill; it turns the tide, but does not win the duel. If the defender is getting multiple strikes in as a result, it's not working right, and the attacker probably isn't having much fun. On one hand, they deserve it, but on the other, we aren't asking them to please push the keyboard away and go make a sandwich. The attacker still get to play, after all, and they should be able to recover from their mistake.
The thing that all of this counters, is attack spam. The thing that it introduces? Timing, maybe even a sort of rhythm element if you can measure your opponent's pace. If nothing else, you can catch a lucky break on your dial-up connection, I don't know.I know spamming the left-click is not the only thing you can do in a PvP/PvE environment. But it's silly to pretend it doesn't happen, and the fact that it's a nubcake thing to do actually kind of furthers my point. I like the idea that a veteran dueler could control the flow of the battle against a noobie that just holds down the space bar and clicks really fast. Plus it gives some more function to the current block feature, which, while it has its uses, could be a feature that players have more incentive to actually try!
Plus, this is a feature in a lot of fighting games, and while it's difficult to master, it feels really really good when you finally manage to pull it off! That didn't come out right. Hmn.
Anyway, that was, in essence, my suggestion. I accept that it isn't perfect, and I welcome the community to propose tweaks. Should the stun be longer or shorter than a second? Does the defender nullify all damage from a perfect block? An increased amount? Less? How far does the attacker move, if at all? What rules would you add or take away? How would this work against the mobs of Minecraft? Arrows? Potions?
I know Jeb is never going to read this, but I believe the point of a Suggestions forum is that a well developed idea has a chance of seeing the light of day, and I'd like to see this happen if it can work while still being fun for everybody.
Please discuss. <3
Later Edit:
The following is a brainstormed list of community-contributed ideas for this feature! Bear in mind they don't all have to be implemented at once, but are indicative of the many options the Mojang staff would have to keep this mechanic balanced and fun for everyone! Keep em comin'!
Superpop is so underground, he lives with a Diglett!
My previous/current work: Plantology
Hm, well can you think of any way this could be useful for mobs? I'd like for it to be a thing everyone can find use for, since right now blocking is sort of a niche ability. Skeletons and ghasts have timing elements, but zombies don't have animations.
Sure, arrows would be cool, too, though what would you want them to do exactly? I could see parrying an arrow with a well timed block, but I'm having trouble imagining them having enough momentum to actually fly back at the attacker. It'd probably look really silly.
Also, what do you mean by nausea? Like, the food poisoning effect?
(PS I like your avatar.)
Superpop is so underground, he lives with a Diglett!
Oh, I see!
Yeah, maybe some kind of visual effect would be appropriate. This could serve a couple of purposes; one to reinforce that the effect has been triggered, and another to add additional difficulty to the recovery. As long as it isn't too jarring, we don't want the attacker getting queasy!
I'll add that and your suggestions on projectiles to the end of the OP. It'll help keep track of community contributions!
Sweet! That it would have a use for non PvP'ers is a great sign! Do lemme know if you think of any ways to improve it!
Thanks! You're an awesome person, officially. <3
Superpop is so underground, he lives with a Diglett!
such a shame........(static)
I really like this Idea but perhaps
when the attacker is blocked could the sneaking animation happen but backwards? (by that I mean the legs are strate and the body is leaning backwards?)
also for the attacker the sword should't bounce like a bouncy ball off of the defender's sword but it should SOMEWHAT bounce off
SUPPORT THEM!!!!! (also if your a new please click on the picture)
Also a good idea, if I'm understanding you correctly. So basically your "backwards sneak" is suggesting an animation for the stun, itself?
This is ambitious, but I definitely think it'd be a must if this idea were to work in PvE!
You need some sort of visual feedback with zombies and such so you know when to block. Do you think it'd be hard to make animations for them?
Regardless, suggestion definitely added. I feel like I'd kind of appreciate those animations even without the blocking update, just because I'm tired of being hit from imperceptibly touching a hitbox.
Thanks for the contributions! <3
Superpop is so underground, he lives with a Diglett!