Like what everyone else is saying, water not working in the Nether is an intentional developer choice that probably won't be undone. A hard-to-get item that makes water there possible is unrealistically pointless. No one will use up valuable diamond blocks just to make some sort of "water spout" in the Nether. That's just stupid.
That was just an example, there are other ways to make it hard. I feel like it would let use give a nice neat creative touch to the nether if we are willing to work for it. I was thinking of something like a little oaisis or something.
1- Obsidian lakes insted of lava lakes.
2. Would make blaze farms so much easier and over powered because they drop more xp than other mobs.
3- you could always get some ice with silktouch then downgrade and place the ice and have it melt then go back to your current version.
4- just doesnt go with the enviorment.
As stated in the origional post it could be hard to get the water in the nether, making obisdian lakes extreemly diffuvault to make anyway, might as well mine obsidian and conver it like that.
1)infinite obsidian
2)super-efficient blaze farm
3)no more drowning in lava
4)etc. etc.
ask you a question
how do you mean hard to carry water to the nether?
diamond bucket?
You can already making a wokring infinite obsidian farm using the iwhter (look it up) and if it were hard to get the water there it would not cause the problem.
I was thinking possibly adding like a super rare trade with villagers to get a water block, where they only trade it once then you have to trade a shiz ton for it to be re-added, and it could also be expsnive in emeralds (of course this is just anothe rsuggestion, there are many ways to make it hard to bring in the nether).
Super effenit blaze farm would not work because if they die from water (or snow golems also) they do not drop anything at all (I tested it).
If it were hard to get it you could still "drowned" in the lava just as before.
water in the nether is an over suggested and overpowered idea. The Nether is Hell. The creatures you see there have died and gone to hell. Therefore, they need so water, so therefore you need no water and we need no water.
I give this suggestion a: 0 (No support).
-Lefty
This game is not supposed to be based on what you think it should be like, it is supposed to be a game that you can creatively think whatever you want it to be. Also did you read the origion al post? It could be HARD to get a single block of water in the nether, let alone a lake. Also the nether may be called a hell biome, but it is not meant to just be hell, it is what you imagine it to be, like maybe it it a univers that compacted much smaller and is therfore much hotter.
That was just an example, there are other ways to make it hard. I feel like it would let use give a nice neat creative touch to the nether if we are willing to work for it. I was thinking of something like a little oaisis or something.
On Oasis? In the Nether..? The Nether is a barren, fiery and lava-filled hell. There isn't supposed to be an oasis there. You gotta think about this. Why would Mojang remove the use of water there? Why would they later remove the ice block exploit there? Answer: no water there. Period. The Nether is meant to be a dangerous place, and using water on the oceans of lava to make so much obsidian, or to make surface fires obsolete or to make the easiest Blaze farms. That's not what the Nether is about, that's not how it works, that's not how the Nether is meant to be played.
Take a good look at WaterTipper's post up there, I think he nailed it quite well.
On Oasis? In the Nether..? The Nether is a barren, fiery and lava-filled hell. There isn't supposed to be an oasis there. You gotta think about this. Why would Mojang remove the use of water there? Why would they later remove the ice block exploit there? Answer: no water there. Period. The Nether is meant to be a dangerous place, and using water on the oceans of lava to make so much obsidian, or to make surface fires obsolete or to make the easiest Blaze farms. That's not what the Nether is about, that's not how it works, that's not how the Nether is meant to be played.
Take a good look at WaterTipper's post up there, I think he nailed it quite well.
You don't "drowned" in lava. You burn away in it. Quickly.
Look at my reply, I refuted every part even that the nether is hot. Minecraft is not supposed to be "this environment is this therefore you can not change it" it is supposed to be, hey lets make something cool and creative anywhere i want. If this game were made to make logical sense like that, the end would be too cold for lava and water and you could npot build completely floating houses and such.
I realize you do not drowned in lava, I was using the same term the person i was quoting used.
Minecraft is not supposed to be "this environment is this therefore you can not change it"
Well, to some extent, this is how Minecraft is meant to be. For survival at least. Because this adds limits and partial realism in order to maintain game balance and gameplay.
it is supposed to be, hey lets make something cool and creative anywhere i want. If this game were made to make logical sense like that, the end would be too cold for lava and water and you could npot build completely floating houses and such.
Here's one of the most important laws of game design. Gameplay/Balance importance > Realism importance. Realism and logic aren't bad, but you gotta limit it so the game remains enjoyable. But I'm getting off track.
I understand that Minecraft is supposed to be about how the players want to treat the world or build in it, but adding water to the Nether still ruins the difficulty and a good point to the Nether's hostility and danger. This is why Creative Mode exists, so we can build with no limits. In Survival, I wish I had a sword that could make mob drops x10 experience orbs, but that won't happen because it makes things in survival too easy.
Well, to some extent, this is how Minecraft is meant to be. For survival at least. Because this adds limits and partial realism in order to maintain game balance and gameplay.
Here's one of the most important laws of game design. Gameplay/Balance importance > Realism importance. Realism and logic aren't bad, but you gotta limit it so the game remains enjoyable. But I'm getting off track.
I understand that Minecraft is supposed to be about how the players want to treat the world or build in it, but adding water to the Nether still ruins the difficulty and a good point to the Nether's hostility and danger. This is why Creative Mode exists, so we can build with no limits. In Survival, I wish I had a sword that could make mob drops x10 experience orbs, but that won't happen because it makes things in survival too easy.
That is why I am saying it should be really hard to do, that way it can be some kind of pay off to have a small pool in a firey wordl. Like with the proper difficualty to obtain, it would not be feasable to make a large secure area with the water in the nether. The idea it that by being able to get some water in the nether, you can get just a little tiny slightly more secure area, like right outside the nethe portal perhas so you dont get raped by ghasts litterally the instant you go in the nether (which is far from an uncommon problem).
That is why I am saying it should be really hard to do, that way it can be some kind of pay off to have a small pool in a firey wordl
It doesn't work that way. Making something "really hard to do" doesn't strengthen your suggestion, or give a very valid excuse to have this. It still ruins the point and uniqueness of the Nether. I can't imagine Mojang going through the trouble of removing water and the ice exploit just to later go, "Hey, let's give the player another means of using water there!" Rewarding payoff or not, it's just not meant to happen. The Nether is meant to be forever waterless.
It doesn't work that way. Making something "really hard to do" doesn't strengthen your suggestion, or give a very valid excuse to have this. It still ruins the point and uniqueness of the Nether. I can't imagine Mojang going through the trouble of removing water and the ice exploit just to later go, "Hey, let's give the player another means of using water there!" Rewarding payoff or not, it's just not meant to happen. The Nether is meant to be forever waterless.
If it is really hard to to, it makes it so it does not ruin the nether, that is the point of making it hard. You could make the same argument about bring all kinds of lava and water to the end but they still have that. Also the methods they removed made it really easy to get water there and I am trying to make an argument contrary to the choice of them making it intentionally impossible, not just go with what they say.
Think of it this way: could a single water block really ruin the nether? No, of course not, and if it is really hard to get, that is likely all people will bring most likely. If anything it is the nerf for ghasts we need so bad, because ghasts ruin the nethe rby spawning so much they come in packs of like 50 (literally) and burn and annihilate everything and you can stop them because you can't hit their fireballs back easy because they spawn from above and below them instead of from their mouth, and it is hard to shoot them with arrows because they fly away, but if you can hide in a water block, you can much more easily take them down without getting you and everything around you totally annihilated.
Alright. What reason do you have to bring water to the Nether? What does it add to the game that would get you so enthused about its use?
Well for one, I see no goo reason not to add it, if it is added properly, but it could have many uses, for example it could be used as that nerf the ghasts reall need because right now they spawn way to thick of groups and are almost unstoppable at that point, but if you could hide in a water block, you could have a chance of taking them out without getting annihilated. Another reason is you could build neat decorative things like a small oasis in hell. One other reason (but certainly not the last) is if you get stuck in the nether for whatever reason, you could use it to start a cobble farm and work your way up to a surviving condition, then be able to escape the nether rather than have to die and loose whatever stuff you have.
good luck making an obsidian wall, also, if you can not build anything without getting blown up, then you can not stop them that easily.
So what if you get an infinite water source in the nether? not like you can flood the nether with buckets, it has no affect on potion making either now that you can grow nether warts in the overworld.
Also, if you have ever gotten really far on a minecraft survival, you know you eventually get to the point of "hey what can i use to suck up some of these resources but can also be used in a neat way?" and water could be one of those ways.
The reason ghasts get to such extreme pack sizes is because people go into the nether, and run away from the ghasts, so more keep spawning until you have a real problem.
I just want to say that Mojang didn't remove water in the nether for nothing. It's OP like hell. Turn lava lakes in obsidian, grinding blazes will become way to easy, and so will be the challenge of ghasts, which isn't even as hard as you make it sound.
If you can't survive in the nether, it doesn't mean that it should be easier.
That's where we have the mob cap for.
Please stop whining now.
The mob cap is 200 (literally) also, please go read the origional post, most of you arguments are coverd.
I can hadle a few ghasts easily, it is a pack of 50 that are unstoppable.
If it is really hard to to, it makes it so it does not ruin the nether, that is the point of making it hard. Yes, it actually stills ruins it. For example: one well-placed water block can make the world's easiest Blaze grinder.
You could make the same argument about bring all kinds of lava and water to the end but they still have that. Why are you even making that comparison..? That doesn't relate to what we're talking about. The End is a floating island in a purple void home to only two mobs, where lava and water isn't as altering as they would be in the Nether.
Think of it this way: could a single water block really ruin the nether? No, of course n- Let me stop you there. Yes, it could. Depending on where and how you placed it. There are a lot of possibilities there that players always find. One of them being that Blaze spawner exploit I mentioned.
If anything it is the nerf for ghasts we need so bad, because ghasts ruin the nethe rby spawning so much they come in packs of like 50 (literally) and burn and annihilate everything and you can stop them because you can't hit their fireballs ba- We're... talking about Ghasts now? I personally find Ghasts easy as all hell and I play on Hard constantly, the opinions of Ghasts range from every possible value imaginable, but this is kind of a whole different argument...
but if you can hide in a water block, you can much more easily take them down without getting you and everything around you totally annihilated. Okay. Please, please tell me you didn't just use this as a boost for your suggestion. You do NOT need some water block to survive a Ghast. Hide behind something. Pay attention and keep hitting away/dodging their fireballs. Use your bow and arrow. Your water argument is completely null there.
If getting water in the Nether is so hard, you're not gonna always have it around to somehow "protect" you from Ghasts.
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Actually, a ghast fireball can be stopped by cobblestone. You don't even need obsidian.
All you need to do is go to the nether with some decent protection (armour and bow and sword) and lots of cobble (easy to get) and you can fight off the ghasts and then make a structure around your portal so they can't take you by surprise in future.
The issue is when the portal is already made, and nobody stopps to kill ghasts so they build up to insane numbers
Test this in creative with cheats, blazes do not drop anything at all if they are killed by water, I have personally tried. Also there are other ways to make a super efficinet blaze farm that do not use water.
Aslo, if there is an exploite, it can always be patched, not like there is no way of fixing problems.
The pigmen cover the mob cap for the biggest part.
50 Is excaggerated. A lot. I have never experienced anymore than 8 ghasts at a time, and I have played MC for over 2 years.
Not only that, but I read your original post. Water would be way overpowered.
Your argument about 'no rules, just creativity' is invalid, too. The developers thought they had to implement a limit on water in the nether, and they did that just to make it logical. If you really want water in the nether, request a mod. Obviously a huge majority of the people here doesn't want it.
The pigmen cover the mob cap for the biggest part.
50 Is excaggerated. A lot. I have never experienced anymore than 8 ghasts at a time, and I have played MC for over 2 years.
Not only that, but I read your original post. Water would be way overpowered.
Your argument about 'no rules, just creativity' is invalid, too. The developers thought they had to implement a limit on water in the nether, and they did that just to make it logical. If you really want water in the nether, request a mod. Obviously a huge majority of the people here doesn't want it.
I have personally expreince groups of more than 15 at a time, they are very difficualt to deal with, also pigmen die a ton easier than ghast, and are sometimes then replaced with a ghast allowing mor ebuildiup
Okay guys, lets move back to subject and away from the ghast issue, it is starting to get off topic.
Why off-topic? You put it up as a reason to implement water. We just comment on that.
I still don't support water in the nether.
I mean tha tpeople are starting to go into the strategy of how to kill ghasts, which has nothing to do with the topic.
Also forgot to mention in last post to your response. What can work differen in the nether than it does in the overworld, perhaps is can be shallow and unable to flow because of how shoolow it is, in addition if the block beneath it is removed it could then just eveaporate. I would be surprised if somebody could exploit that legitimantly (no blazes farm would not work, blazes drop nothing when kill by water I tested it).
I think that's way too strange and illogical behaviour.
If you have ever heated up a really hot cast iron stove, and then put water on it, it behaves basically exactly like that, except it slides around a little if the surface is uneven. Also it could be made to behave more like lava does in the overworld, which would make it less explotable.
It could also be made bioling water, so it can still do damage to the player on contact.
Just an FYI, a carefully placed water block can extinguish a whole ocean of lava.
Since when mojang allowed ice to be placed in the nether, they stopped ice from turning into water, it is clear the nether is not meant to have water in it.
It could stil be made really shallow and not flow at all, also I am trying to say that it could be implemtex differently that just rhow some water in the nether, it could be made with different dynamics while in the nether and behave differently, making it less possible to exploite but still usable.
I merely meant the water removing on block removal.
Well that was just my "quick fix" (for lack of a better term) idea, it could also be made to fall down like sand does rather than make a flowing pillar.
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Curse PremiumThat was just an example, there are other ways to make it hard. I feel like it would let use give a nice neat creative touch to the nether if we are willing to work for it. I was thinking of something like a little oaisis or something.
Blazes can also hurt you without their fireball. Get a fire proof potion and attack blazes in a box, they will hurt you still.
As stated in the origional post it could be hard to get the water in the nether, making obisdian lakes extreemly diffuvault to make anyway, might as well mine obsidian and conver it like that.
You can already making a wokring infinite obsidian farm using the iwhter (look it up) and if it were hard to get the water there it would not cause the problem.
I was thinking possibly adding like a super rare trade with villagers to get a water block, where they only trade it once then you have to trade a shiz ton for it to be re-added, and it could also be expsnive in emeralds (of course this is just anothe rsuggestion, there are many ways to make it hard to bring in the nether).
Super effenit blaze farm would not work because if they die from water (or snow golems also) they do not drop anything at all (I tested it).
If it were hard to get it you could still "drowned" in the lava just as before.
This game is not supposed to be based on what you think it should be like, it is supposed to be a game that you can creatively think whatever you want it to be. Also did you read the origion al post? It could be HARD to get a single block of water in the nether, let alone a lake. Also the nether may be called a hell biome, but it is not meant to just be hell, it is what you imagine it to be, like maybe it it a univers that compacted much smaller and is therfore much hotter.
On Oasis? In the Nether..? The Nether is a barren, fiery and lava-filled hell. There isn't supposed to be an oasis there. You gotta think about this. Why would Mojang remove the use of water there? Why would they later remove the ice block exploit there? Answer: no water there. Period. The Nether is meant to be a dangerous place, and using water on the oceans of lava to make so much obsidian, or to make surface fires obsolete or to make the easiest Blaze farms. That's not what the Nether is about, that's not how it works, that's not how the Nether is meant to be played.
Take a good look at WaterTipper's post up there, I think he nailed it quite well.
You don't "drowned" in lava. You burn away in it. Quickly.
THat would only make a 2 by two square, if you can not pick it back up, it does basically very little.
Look at my reply, I refuted every part even that the nether is hot. Minecraft is not supposed to be "this environment is this therefore you can not change it" it is supposed to be, hey lets make something cool and creative anywhere i want. If this game were made to make logical sense like that, the end would be too cold for lava and water and you could npot build completely floating houses and such.
I realize you do not drowned in lava, I was using the same term the person i was quoting used.
Well, to some extent, this is how Minecraft is meant to be. For survival at least. Because this adds limits and partial realism in order to maintain game balance and gameplay.
Here's one of the most important laws of game design. Gameplay/Balance importance > Realism importance. Realism and logic aren't bad, but you gotta limit it so the game remains enjoyable. But I'm getting off track.
I understand that Minecraft is supposed to be about how the players want to treat the world or build in it, but adding water to the Nether still ruins the difficulty and a good point to the Nether's hostility and danger. This is why Creative Mode exists, so we can build with no limits. In Survival, I wish I had a sword that could make mob drops x10 experience orbs, but that won't happen because it makes things in survival too easy.
- Steve Martin
That is why I am saying it should be really hard to do, that way it can be some kind of pay off to have a small pool in a firey wordl. Like with the proper difficualty to obtain, it would not be feasable to make a large secure area with the water in the nether. The idea it that by being able to get some water in the nether, you can get just a little tiny slightly more secure area, like right outside the nethe portal perhas so you dont get raped by ghasts litterally the instant you go in the nether (which is far from an uncommon problem).
Go read the origional post (not just the title) then come back with a better response.
It doesn't work that way. Making something "really hard to do" doesn't strengthen your suggestion, or give a very valid excuse to have this. It still ruins the point and uniqueness of the Nether. I can't imagine Mojang going through the trouble of removing water and the ice exploit just to later go, "Hey, let's give the player another means of using water there!" Rewarding payoff or not, it's just not meant to happen. The Nether is meant to be forever waterless.
If it is really hard to to, it makes it so it does not ruin the nether, that is the point of making it hard. You could make the same argument about bring all kinds of lava and water to the end but they still have that. Also the methods they removed made it really easy to get water there and I am trying to make an argument contrary to the choice of them making it intentionally impossible, not just go with what they say.
Think of it this way: could a single water block really ruin the nether? No, of course not, and if it is really hard to get, that is likely all people will bring most likely. If anything it is the nerf for ghasts we need so bad, because ghasts ruin the nethe rby spawning so much they come in packs of like 50 (literally) and burn and annihilate everything and you can stop them because you can't hit their fireballs back easy because they spawn from above and below them instead of from their mouth, and it is hard to shoot them with arrows because they fly away, but if you can hide in a water block, you can much more easily take them down without getting you and everything around you totally annihilated.
It is pretty self explanitory, just a waterblock to use for what you please to do in the nether. This game is more about creativeness than rules.
Well for one, I see no goo reason not to add it, if it is added properly, but it could have many uses, for example it could be used as that nerf the ghasts reall need because right now they spawn way to thick of groups and are almost unstoppable at that point, but if you could hide in a water block, you could have a chance of taking them out without getting annihilated. Another reason is you could build neat decorative things like a small oasis in hell. One other reason (but certainly not the last) is if you get stuck in the nether for whatever reason, you could use it to start a cobble farm and work your way up to a surviving condition, then be able to escape the nether rather than have to die and loose whatever stuff you have.
good luck making an obsidian wall, also, if you can not build anything without getting blown up, then you can not stop them that easily.
So what if you get an infinite water source in the nether? not like you can flood the nether with buckets, it has no affect on potion making either now that you can grow nether warts in the overworld.
Also, if you have ever gotten really far on a minecraft survival, you know you eventually get to the point of "hey what can i use to suck up some of these resources but can also be used in a neat way?" and water could be one of those ways.
The reason ghasts get to such extreme pack sizes is because people go into the nether, and run away from the ghasts, so more keep spawning until you have a real problem.
The mob cap is 200 (literally) also, please go read the origional post, most of you arguments are coverd.
I can hadle a few ghasts easily, it is a pack of 50 that are unstoppable.
The issue is when the portal is already made, and nobody stopps to kill ghasts so they build up to insane numbers
Test this in creative with cheats, blazes do not drop anything at all if they are killed by water, I have personally tried. Also there are other ways to make a super efficinet blaze farm that do not use water.
Aslo, if there is an exploite, it can always be patched, not like there is no way of fixing problems.
I have personally expreince groups of more than 15 at a time, they are very difficualt to deal with, also pigmen die a ton easier than ghast, and are sometimes then replaced with a ghast allowing mor ebuildiup
Okay guys, lets move back to subject and away from the ghast issue, it is starting to get off topic.
I mean tha tpeople are starting to go into the strategy of how to kill ghasts, which has nothing to do with the topic.
Also forgot to mention in last post to your response. What can work differen in the nether than it does in the overworld, perhaps is can be shallow and unable to flow because of how shoolow it is, in addition if the block beneath it is removed it could then just eveaporate. I would be surprised if somebody could exploit that legitimantly (no blazes farm would not work, blazes drop nothing when kill by water I tested it).
If you have ever heated up a really hot cast iron stove, and then put water on it, it behaves basically exactly like that, except it slides around a little if the surface is uneven. Also it could be made to behave more like lava does in the overworld, which would make it less explotable.
It could also be made bioling water, so it can still do damage to the player on contact.
It could stil be made really shallow and not flow at all, also I am trying to say that it could be implemtex differently that just rhow some water in the nether, it could be made with different dynamics while in the nether and behave differently, making it less possible to exploite but still usable.
Well that was just my "quick fix" (for lack of a better term) idea, it could also be made to fall down like sand does rather than make a flowing pillar.