A musket ain't a rifle bro. A rifle has grooves in the chamber, allowing the bullet to spin within the barrel and give the rifle far more accuracy then the average smoothbore musket, such as the Brown Bess, hence the term rifling.. I like the idea of the arquebus having limited use because back then, when computers needed coal to play Minecraft and such, arquebuses were much less robust then the musket, which was why the arquebus simply went out of fashion.
I'm thinking about 1 gun that will fit within Minecraft theme. Guns that aren't modern.
Flintlock pistol is possible. So is shotgun.
Flintlock was introduced during the 1600s, I don't think that would fit in the medieval theme now would it.
ON TOPIC
Now, since it is an arquebus, how are you going to add matchlock/wheellock mechanisms. Add string to the recipe for arquebus? I seriously do not know how I can add wheellock without introducing a buttload of new stuff.
I Personally think that "Guns" are a bit too advanced for Minecraft. Here's what I would suggest: Crossbows. Crossbows are only found in Dungeons and Strongholds. They use Arrows as ammunition. The default crossbow would allow you to shoot similarly to the pre-1.8 bow, with a slower firing rate and a reload animation. You can put a repeater on top of the crossbow in the crafting table to create a repeating crossbow, that fires 8 rapid yet weak shots before the reload animation. Should a spyglass be added to the game, you can add those to your bow and use it like a sniper rifle. I think a musket is okay, though. Something early enough to be used as a shotgun. Just give it a ty firing rate and have it shoot iron instead of arrows, and there ya go. Again- guns are too advanced and too OP. A Musket will do well, but that's as advanced we want to go. They shouldn't be craftable (no not even the crossbow) and should take into account the attributes of this concept.
An arquebus is the forerunner of the musket. o_o It is much less robust then the musket, hence the whole "limited use" idea. Hehe, a scope on a repeating crossbow. I don't know how you are going to put a scope on a huge wooden magazine moving all the time. If you want an old shotgun, get a fowling piece.
EDIT:
I'm just being a realistic guy here, this is Minecraft, do whatever you want. :3
Sheesh, why did I make this huge wall of text.
(In regard to a mod that gives realistic animal genetics):
Would you really rather have bees that make diamonds and oil with magical genetic blocks?
... did I really ask that?
Why not use a bow? There are mods for guns. Don't ruin the game with guns.
How do guns ruin Minecraft exactly...?
Also, I don't understand why the new gun thread got locked instead of this one. This may have been the first one, but it died a long time ago, and the new one was created to replace it.
I don't oppose guns because they don't fit with theme historically, or because they don't make sense with the current tech. They do on both accounts.
The fact is I just don't like the concept. I believe I don't stand alone when I say: Mine Craft is NOT an FPS. I'm not saying that guns or even one gun would make it that, but...
I don't like the idea that a person can aim, shoot, and their target will be hit. Arrows give time for a player to evade. Even crossbows won't be UN-dodge-able. Guns are too overpowered. Even if it takes a long time to reload, and they do a lot of damage, you can still aim, fire from a good distance away, reload and fire again before your enemy even knows where you are. They give the game-play a whole different feel.
To sum up my viewpoint:
It's not about theme here. It's about the game-play mechanic.
Old guns fired at subsonic speeds and could easily be balanced by making them fly faster, but still slow enough to see.
Ah, yes, because all guns have to be modern assault rifles and DMRs, like in a certain horribly unbalanced mod. Guns are ancient weapons, and at one point were very crude, weak, bulky, weapons.
Using your logic, I could easily argue that bows are OP because I played a mod that made them do 999999 damage.
This is an arquebus. It is a gun that, suprise, suprise, isn't fully automatic, long range, certain death, supersonic, or any of the other common assumptions about all guns!
so, this will be like a sniper that takes a little longer to reload?
what's the point? we don't need a sniper. that would actually be op. and make bows pointless.
Did you actually pay attention? They aren't sniper rifles, they're just plain rifles (technically not, since they lack rifled barrels, but you get my point), and inaccurate ones at that. Bows are insanely accurate anyways.
it's a gun. An explosion can make a bullet go farther than a string can make an arrow go...
but if this is added, tell me how it would be not op.
The firearm would have stopping power and range, while the bow would have accuracy and speed, which is actually the most realistic way to depict the two.
The Blunderbuss (carried over from other thread and improved (I think)):
The blunderbuss is a primitive shotgun which is capable of firing high-powered shot. While it has rather short range, and a large recoil requiring a steady aim to fire effectively; it comes into it's own in the mid-range category, outperforming bows and swords at that range.
STATS
DAMAGE: 3 hearts (5 on crit)
USES: 250
SPECIAL: Fires in a cone (3m wide at 15m); does not pierce (max 3 enemies hit at one time)
SPECIAL: ignores half of armor (up to 2.5 armor can be ignored max, 5 on crit)
PENALTY: Weapon must be steadied or user suffers recoil (camera tilts 80o up and facing changes randomly 80o to the left or the right. At full steady, recoil reduces to 15o (up and to the side) and gives critical hits.) It takes as long to steady a blunderbuss as a bowman full power firing a bow.
Left-click: attack/break blocks
Right-click: Steady Aim (release to fire)
Crit: To crit, the weapon must be fully steadied.
PROS:
Has a range advantage over swords
More NOOB friendly for accuracy correction
AoE damage
Quick initial go-to to weaken mobs before needing to switch to a sword
Armor piercing evens the playing field against diamond wearers; but not enough to remove diamond viability; a full suit of armor will still save your life.
CONS:
Cannot rapid fire (recoil)
Not nearly as far-reaching as a bow (forces the use of bows in long range sniping)
No knockback (even on crit)
Less max damage than a bow or a diamond sword
Does no extra damage with melee forcing the use of diamond sword in close quarters
You are claiming that, no matter who does it, no matter what kind of gun, no matter what kind of drawbacks or statistics are incorporated, that all guns, under any circumstances, ever, will unquestionably be overpowered simply because it is a gun.
You are making the extraordinary claim. You are the one that the burden of proof falls upon. YOU need to substantiate your claim, so you provide some proof.
against the rules to express your opinion? Tell me where.
Try looking at the DO and DO NOT lists here. Specifically these entries
DO - Be Nice And Polite
DO NOT -Troll
DO NOT -Flame or Provoke
So, yes, you are allowed to "express your opinion". However, you are not allowed to "hate on" something, which you appear to be objecting to. If you wish to express your opinion, you are expected to do so in a polite and respectful manner, with an effort made to not offend others.
Relevant to the current discussion, an example I gave someone in a private discussion...
"Actually, there have been ample examples of firearms that would be balanced, and a great deal of thought has been put into the subject. For instance, the concept of a blunderbuss is quite popular right now. As an inaccurate mid-range weapon, it would not supplant either the bow or sword. Damage would also likely be quite low for such a weapon, such as a half-heart per "pellet", requiring that a target be hit by multiple pellets to take more than negligible damage. Thus, this hypothetical weapon's main value would be, not offensive, but defensive. It would take advantage of a wide cone of fire and above-average knockback to deal with groups of enemies - not as a primary means of defeating them, but to hold them off, possibly buying enough time to regenerate health so that one can switch back to a more effective weapon to finish the attackers off."
I think that this is an important point to bring up, since we tend to think of weapons always in terms of the offensive uses. It's rare that we consider the potential of a tool specialized for defence.
While I do like the idea of a musket, used primarily as an inaccurate but powerful medium range weapon, the idea of a gun being primarily defensive is quite creative, original, and balanced.
In most iterations of guns discussed here; they reach a niche arena of MID-RANGE supporting; which fills a nifty gap between melee and REALLY FRIGGIN LONG DISTANCE.
Why are you supporting a thread that isn't really a suggestion, so much as a discussion...?
Er... I thought this thread was a suggestion regarding adding an item called the Arquebus. I would like to vote my support of the idea as presented by the author of the first post because I find it compelling?
A musket ain't a rifle bro. A rifle has grooves in the chamber, allowing the bullet to spin within the barrel and give the rifle far more accuracy then the average smoothbore musket, such as the Brown Bess, hence the term rifling.. I like the idea of the arquebus having limited use because back then, when computers needed coal to play Minecraft and such, arquebuses were much less robust then the musket, which was why the arquebus simply went out of fashion.
Flintlock was introduced during the 1600s, I don't think that would fit in the medieval theme now would it.
ON TOPIC
Now, since it is an arquebus, how are you going to add matchlock/wheellock mechanisms. Add string to the recipe for arquebus? I seriously do not know how I can add wheellock without introducing a buttload of new stuff.
An arquebus is the forerunner of the musket. o_o It is much less robust then the musket, hence the whole "limited use" idea. Hehe, a scope on a repeating crossbow. I don't know how you are going to put a scope on a huge wooden magazine moving all the time. If you want an old shotgun, get a fowling piece.
EDIT:
I'm just being a realistic guy here, this is Minecraft, do whatever you want. :3
Sheesh, why did I make this huge wall of text.
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(In regard to a mod that gives realistic animal genetics):
Would you really rather have bees that make diamonds and oil with magical genetic blocks?
... did I really ask that?
How do guns ruin Minecraft exactly...?
Also, I don't understand why the new gun thread got locked instead of this one. This may have been the first one, but it died a long time ago, and the new one was created to replace it.
Old guns fired at subsonic speeds and could easily be balanced by making them fly faster, but still slow enough to see.
Ah, yes, because all guns have to be modern assault rifles and DMRs, like in a certain horribly unbalanced mod. Guns are ancient weapons, and at one point were very crude, weak, bulky, weapons.
Using your logic, I could easily argue that bows are OP because I played a mod that made them do 999999 damage.
Make it an arquebus.
Since I played a mod that made bows deal 999999 damage and hit instantly, tell me how to make them non-OP.
Did you actually pay attention? They aren't sniper rifles, they're just plain rifles (technically not, since they lack rifled barrels, but you get my point), and inaccurate ones at that. Bows are insanely accurate anyways.
Why's that?
The firearm would have stopping power and range, while the bow would have accuracy and speed, which is actually the most realistic way to depict the two.
That's like saying that a wooden sword and iron sword are mechanically different (they aren't).
Instead, it would be wise to say that any gun would need to operate sufficienty different than an existing weapon.
OFFICIAL POSTING/REPLYING GUIDELINES
UNOFFICIAL POSTING GUIDE (PRT)
UNOFFICIAL REPLYING GUIDE (FTC)
The blunderbuss is a primitive shotgun which is capable of firing high-powered shot. While it has rather short range, and a large recoil requiring a steady aim to fire effectively; it comes into it's own in the mid-range category, outperforming bows and swords at that range.
STATS
DAMAGE: 3 hearts (5 on crit)
USES: 250
SPECIAL: Fires in a cone (3m wide at 15m); does not pierce (max 3 enemies hit at one time)
SPECIAL: ignores half of armor (up to 2.5 armor can be ignored max, 5 on crit)
PENALTY: Weapon must be steadied or user suffers recoil (camera tilts 80o up and facing changes randomly 80o to the left or the right. At full steady, recoil reduces to 15o (up and to the side) and gives critical hits.) It takes as long to steady a blunderbuss as a bowman full power firing a bow.
Left-click: attack/break blocks
Right-click: Steady Aim (release to fire)
Crit: To crit, the weapon must be fully steadied.
PROS:
Has a range advantage over swords
More NOOB friendly for accuracy correction
AoE damage
Quick initial go-to to weaken mobs before needing to switch to a sword
Armor piercing evens the playing field against diamond wearers; but not enough to remove diamond viability; a full suit of armor will still save your life.
CONS:
Cannot rapid fire (recoil)
Not nearly as far-reaching as a bow (forces the use of bows in long range sniping)
No knockback (even on crit)
Less max damage than a bow or a diamond sword
Does no extra damage with melee forcing the use of diamond sword in close quarters
OFFICIAL POSTING/REPLYING GUIDELINES
UNOFFICIAL POSTING GUIDE (PRT)
UNOFFICIAL REPLYING GUIDE (FTC)
No.
You are claiming that, no matter who does it, no matter what kind of gun, no matter what kind of drawbacks or statistics are incorporated, that all guns, under any circumstances, ever, will unquestionably be overpowered simply because it is a gun.
You are making the extraordinary claim.
You are the one that the burden of proof falls upon.
YOU need to substantiate your claim, so you provide some proof.
By the by...
Try looking at the DO and DO NOT lists here. Specifically these entries
- DO - Be Nice And Polite
- DO NOT - Troll
- DO NOT - Flame or Provoke
So, yes, you are allowed to "express your opinion". However, you are not allowed to "hate on" something, which you appear to be objecting to. If you wish to express your opinion, you are expected to do so in a polite and respectful manner, with an effort made to not offend others.Great work; far better than my idea for a blunderbuss.
"Actually, there have been ample examples of firearms that would be balanced, and a great deal of thought has been put into the subject. For instance, the concept of a blunderbuss is quite popular right now. As an inaccurate mid-range weapon, it would not supplant either the bow or sword. Damage would also likely be quite low for such a weapon, such as a half-heart per "pellet", requiring that a target be hit by multiple pellets to take more than negligible damage. Thus, this hypothetical weapon's main value would be, not offensive, but defensive. It would take advantage of a wide cone of fire and above-average knockback to deal with groups of enemies - not as a primary means of defeating them, but to hold them off, possibly buying enough time to regenerate health so that one can switch back to a more effective weapon to finish the attackers off."
I think that this is an important point to bring up, since we tend to think of weapons always in terms of the offensive uses. It's rare that we consider the potential of a tool specialized for defence.
While I do like the idea of a musket, used primarily as an inaccurate but powerful medium range weapon, the idea of a gun being primarily defensive is quite creative, original, and balanced.
OFFICIAL POSTING/REPLYING GUIDELINES
UNOFFICIAL POSTING GUIDE (PRT)
UNOFFICIAL REPLYING GUIDE (FTC)
Support.
Why are you supporting a thread that isn't really a suggestion, so much as a discussion...?
Er... I thought this thread was a suggestion regarding adding an item called the Arquebus. I would like to vote my support of the idea as presented by the author of the first post because I find it compelling?
Sorry, did I miss something?