Unsupported statement. Requires evidence to back it up. Also, it is a gross generalization, as one bad gun idea does not automatically extend to every gun idea.
That is an opinion, not a fact. Further, many very well researched and argued posts have been made over the past several years, showing that guns can fit in very well with the theme and setting of Minecraft.
That is irrelevant. How many types of "digging tool" are there? How many close-ranged weapons (count anything that increases damage over your bare hands) are there? How many different foods? How many types of block?
Bumping breaks the rules
All threads must in time fade off
Page one is finite
Imagine chaos
All threads, always bumped again
Refresh; you're page three
You're wrong. You are allowed to bump threads, you're just not allowed to constantly post 'bump'.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
No, there has never, ever been a sandbox game with a story or ending... except Grand Theft Auto... and Saints Row... and Red Dead Redemption... and Crack Down... and Assassins Creed...
You're wrong. You are allowed to bump threads, you're just not allowed to constantly post 'bump'.
As far as I know, bumping for the sake of bumping is not allowed. However, I do not understand this horror people have about people posting in open topics. If it isn't locked, it is open for discussion. If it is open for discussion, people may say what they will. There is no such thing as "necro".
As far as I know, bumping for the sake of bumping is not allowed. However, I do not understand this horror people have about people posting in open topics. If it isn't locked, it is open for discussion. If it is open for discussion, people may say what they will. There is no such thing as "necro".
My thoughts exactly.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
No, there has never, ever been a sandbox game with a story or ending... except Grand Theft Auto... and Saints Row... and Red Dead Redemption... and Crack Down... and Assassins Creed...
Lol, ironically I think this thread may be dying, let's hope it doesn't.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
No, there has never, ever been a sandbox game with a story or ending... except Grand Theft Auto... and Saints Row... and Red Dead Redemption... and Crack Down... and Assassins Creed...
yes i did and even if it was used back in the old days it still doesn't fit in with vanilla minecraft
Oh really? What exactly doesn't "fit in" then? Lemme see here...
Do we have gunpowder? Yes.
Does Steve understand how it works? Well, he can make TNT, so he must.
Can Steve make complicated items? Pistons, automated Minecarts, and Jukeboxes say yes.
How about small parts? We have clockwork in Clocks. That's a yes.
Can we find all the other materials we need? Hmm...Wood, Iron, either Flint or a burning stick to ignite the powder; so yes.
Oh really? What exactly doesn't "fit in" then? Lemme see here...
Do we have gunpowder? Yes.
Does Steve understand how it works? Well, he can make TNT, so he must.
Can Steve make complicated items? Pistons, automated Minecarts, and Jukeboxes say yes.
How about small parts? We have clockwork in Clocks. That's a yes.
Can we find all the other materials we need? Hmm...Wood, Iron, either Flint or a burning stick to ignite the powder; so yes.
Nope...not seeing the problem here.
I wish more people would accept this.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
No, there has never, ever been a sandbox game with a story or ending... except Grand Theft Auto... and Saints Row... and Red Dead Redemption... and Crack Down... and Assassins Creed...
I don't think Minecraft needs anymore long-range weapons at all. If any had to be added, let it be crossbows, staffs or something like that, not guns. The reason bows aren't overpowered is because arrows spend some time reaching their target, making them possible to evade. Guns however, hits their target almost instantly, making them really easy to use. If bullets were slow, guns wouldn't be any different than bows. And if their accuracy would be 5 times as worse as bows, like some people requested, they would be extremely shitty and inefficient to use. It would only be possible to use in close-quarters, which would be a bad idea seeing as the reload time is way too long.
Solution to make guns useful: Wind. Bullets would curve slightly with the wind. The wind would change once every second. In order to see what direction the wind is going, you can craft a flag with sticks and wool. The flag would point in a similar manner to the compass. If it's raining or snowing the wind should be more aggressive than usual, requiring more skill. There should be 5 stages of wind, where 0 is no wind and 5 is a lot of wind.
The direction the wind goes is random, but the wind won't change with more than one stage every second. If the wind stage is 1 and the wind is going to your left, the bullet will curve 1 block to the left every 30 blocks it travels. If the stage is 5 it will go a whopping 5 blocks to your left every 30 blocks. The most logical solution when hunting your prey would be waiting until the stage is 0 or 1 before firing. However, if your target is moving towards you or you're trying to hit a fleeing target you would have to depend on your luck by shooting without checking your flag.
Instead of a musket, it should be more of a mosin-nagant in terms of accuracy and such. You should also be able to place a silencer and scope on it. (No, I'm not wanting to turn Minecraft into call of duty) You can enter scope mode by right clicking, and you'd shoot by left clicking. Silencers would remove the white flash (not the smoke) when shooting. Flags could also be placeable, so people can turn their guard-towers into sniper nests by placing down a flag.
While this would be cool, I'd rather have more melee weapons or different kinds of bows.
I hear a lot of arguments claiming that any gun would be redundant to a bow. Or that it would by default be too powerful. In the first place, I don't think that's true. Logically speaking, while I certainly believe that Steve can understand "This powder explodes with heat...I bet it could push things." I doubt he has the tools to make the precision-machined parts used in modern firearms, or that their construction would even occur to him. So, forget about silencers and scopes, and rapid-fire or cartridges.
What we have is a simple, muzzle-fed, single shot black powder weapon. So...what's true about such firearms? Well, first of all, they take a long time to reload. For simplicity's sake, lets say that in Minecraft terms it would take three, maybe four times as long as charging a bow fully...and you wouldn't have the option to take less time. Second, they aren't accurate. While the bow has a predictable arc, a gun would likely have to use a random deviation...making it less reliable. The last point ties into the previous. Early firearms didn't have the range of bows. So a gun that was made to fill the role of being a gun wouldn't be "another long-range weapon". It would be the only mid-range weapon. So much so, in fact, that I would argue that the bow should get a range boost if guns were added, and an added mechanic that gives a bonus to damage at far range.
That, of course, is just using the current system, though. I'm also inclined to question the wisdom that we only need one ranged weapon. How many melee weapons to we have? If you answered "One"...well, go count again. The sword is supposed to be our melee option, but there are also variations for each material class, plus every other tool gives a bonus to melee damage as well. My math may be off, but let's take a count here: Five tool types, plus swords, times five materials...plus your fist...that's, what, thirty-one melee weapons? However, there's only one ranged weapon.
Leaving all that aside, though, it's common knowledge that combat could use some improvements in this game. So a firearm doesn't have to compete with the bow at all. They could both be just as good in every way, but specialize to a different niche. For instance, I've proposed a change to the combat system myself, with the goal of satisfying those that want more weapons in the game and making combat a little more strategic, where different weapons deal more or less damage depending on the mob (idea being that you only need to ever use one weapon, but are rewarded for using the one best suited to a fight). With that system, I introduced the idea of both guns and crossbows alongside the bow, with each being about the same but getting an advantage against different mobs.
The point I am trying to make here is that people should not dismiss the idea of guns simply because they are guns. It depends entirely on how they are implemented as to whether or not they can work, and despite the bad ideas out there, some of the people putting these ideas together really know their stuff and are working to come up with a way that makes things fair. So rather than saying, "A gun is redundant." or "A gun doesn't match the theme/setting of the game." you should look at the idea as a whole and say "If this didn't have the word gun in it...if I didn't know what a gun was...what would I think of this idea?" and "How can I make this idea not be redundant?" or "Is there a way this can be made to fit into the game?".
I hear a lot of arguments claiming that any gun would be redundant to a bow. Or that it would by default be too powerful. In the first place, I don't think that's true. Logically speaking, while I certainly believe that Steve can understand "This powder explodes with heat...I bet it could push things." I doubt he has the tools to make the precision-machined parts used in modern firearms, or that their construction would even occur to him. So, forget about silencers and scopes, and rapid-fire or cartridges.
What we have is a simple, muzzle-fed, single shot black powder weapon. So...what's true about such firearms? Well, first of all, they take a long time to reload. For simplicity's sake, lets say that in Minecraft terms it would take three, maybe four times as long as charging a bow fully...and you wouldn't have the option to take less time. Second, they aren't accurate. While the bow has a predictable arc, a gun would likely have to use a random deviation...making it less reliable. The last point ties into the previous. Early firearms didn't have the range of bows. So a gun that was made to fill the role of being a gun wouldn't be "another long-range weapon". It would be the only mid-range weapon. So much so, in fact, that I would argue that the bow should get a range boost if guns were added, and an added mechanic that gives a bonus to damage at far range.
That, of course, is just using the current system, though. I'm also inclined to question the wisdom that we only need one ranged weapon. How many melee weapons to we have? If you answered "One"...well, go count again. The sword is supposed to be our melee option, but there are also variations for each material class, plus every other tool gives a bonus to melee damage as well. My math may be off, but let's take a count here: Five tool types, plus swords, times five materials...plus your fist...that's, what, thirty-one melee weapons? However, there's only one ranged weapon.
Leaving all that aside, though, it's common knowledge that combat could use some improvements in this game. So a firearm doesn't have to compete with the bow at all. They could both be just as good in every way, but specialize to a different niche. For instance, I've proposed a change to the combat system myself, with the goal of satisfying those that want more weapons in the game and making combat a little more strategic, where different weapons deal more or less damage depending on the mob (idea being that you only need to ever use one weapon, but are rewarded for using the one best suited to a fight). With that system, I introduced the idea of both guns and crossbows alongside the bow, with each being about the same but getting an advantage against different mobs.
The point I am trying to make here is that people should not dismiss the idea of guns simply because they are guns. It depends entirely on how they are implemented as to whether or not they can work, and despite the bad ideas out there, some of the people putting these ideas together really know their stuff and are working to come up with a way that makes things fair. So rather than saying, "A gun is redundant." or "A gun doesn't match the theme/setting of the game." you should look at the idea as a whole and say "If this didn't have the word gun in it...if I didn't know what a gun was...what would I think of this idea?" and "How can I make this idea not be redundant?" or "Is there a way this can be made to fit into the game?".
^
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
No, there has never, ever been a sandbox game with a story or ending... except Grand Theft Auto... and Saints Row... and Red Dead Redemption... and Crack Down... and Assassins Creed...
The fact is that there are two things that people who say something "doesn't fit the setting" universally fail to take into account.
First of all, they aren't considering that Minecraft's setting is actually quite flexible. You can't pin it down as matching a particular era of human history, because it doesn't. It takes little bits of different time periods, like a sample platter of history, then mixes it all together with fantastical elements that never have been. Frankly, there are only two arguments that I have ever found fully reasonable to Minecraft's setting. Either it has no set time period, which is easiest and most likely, or for those that absolutely need a time period it is post-apocalyptic and set in the ruins of a world that once had technology before civilization was destroyed.
The second thing people forget, though, is that no suggestion is set in stone. What's really important isn't how you sprite it, or how the actual nuts and bolts mechanics work. These things are subject to developer purview. They can, and almost certainly will, be changed from the original concept if the idea is used. Pistons are a great example. The mod version was popular, and there was a huge push for it in vanilla Minecraft. Mojang finally added them, but with an altered appearance and mechanics that better fit Minecraft. So you can't really criticize an idea for not fitting the setting. It's pretty much impossible that any idea will fit perfectly with what the developers have in mind, and if they take the idea they will make it fit. The only thing that's important is if the basic principle can be used...and sometimes demonstrating that ways to make it fit exist.
Specific firearm suggestions can be bad. That does not mean that all firearm suggestions are bad.
Thinking that way would be like thinking...
"Some Jewish people are greedy, therefore all Jewish people are greedy."
"Some Negros steal, therefore all Negros are thieves."
"Some Caucasians are prejudiced, therefore Caucasians are bigots."
"Some Asians are terrible drivers, therefore Asians cannot drive."
Please note, none of these statements are correct. They are examples of the kind of flawed logic that leads to forming very stupid opinions. This is not to say that disliking gun threads is the same as racism, only that the same kind of judgemental, unreasoning attitude and lack of valid reason goes into each. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with a gun suggestion based on its flaws/merits, and even gun supporters disagree with terrible ideas. However, there is something verywrong with criticising a gun thread simply because it is a gun thread.
I too believe we could use some more ranged equipment, like crossbows and muskets. We could also make do with a few accessories to uprade all of our ranged weapons. For example:
A telescope: you can use this on its own to look at things farther away. You can also combine the telescope with the Arquebus or a crossbow to allow sniper-like capabilities while keeping to the theme of Minecraft.
Iron strips: strips of iron that can be added to a bow. it makes an improved bow that has more durability and a harder hit.
Stand: A block that an arquebus or crossbow can be attached to. This would transform the weapon into a turret. The Stand could also be used for other purposes, maybe attaching a telescope to watch the stars!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Feel free to help out my dragon! Keep views to a minimum please!
I know that people hate gun suggestions. And for good reason. AK-47s just don't fit
in Minecraft.However, I lately was lately fiddling with the idea of muskets or other
low-tech guns. A musket is a good enough weapon to outdo a bow, but not so
technilogicaly advanced that you could just say "it just doesen't fit!". Muskets
are a very early type of gun, so they just might work. The main reason I'm propsing
this is that I need a better weapon for sniping mobs. A bow and arow just doesen't
always do the trick.
To craft the musket, you would craft 3 iron blocks (blocks, not ingots)
across the middle of the grid and one logon the bottom-left corner. For ammunition,
you craft 1 iron ingot above 1 gunpowder to create 10 musket balls.
The advantages would be that it would fire more at a MUCH straighter trajectory than a bow and quite a bit faster, and would not need charging.
The main disadvantage is that it takes a lot of iron to make and doesen't have a great deal of durability-it can fire about 40 musket balls before breaking and needing to be replaced. That doesen't sound too bad, but consider how long it will take to replace the gun and ammo.
I too believe we could use some more ranged equipment, like crossbows and muskets. We could also make do with a few accessories to uprade all of our ranged weapons. For example:
A telescope: you can use this on its own to look at things farther away. You can also combine the telescope with the Arquebus or a crossbow to allow sniper-like capabilities while keeping to the theme of Minecraft.
Iron strips: strips of iron that can be added to a bow. it makes an improved bow that has more durability and a harder hit.
Stand: A block that an arquebus or crossbow can be attached to. This would transform the weapon into a turret. The Stand could also be used for other purposes, maybe attaching a telescope to watch the stars!
Telescope: A good idea; however, I'm not one for attachments, so I think it would be better as just an item.
Iron strips: Not too sure on this one.
Stand: Now this is a really good idea.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You invade this world claiming it as your own simply by your presence.
You slaughter animals for their hides and flesh.
You destroy the landscape and gouge out the earth to build your monuments to vanity.
And yet you call me monster.
~creeper
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Unsupported statement. Requires evidence to back it up. Also, it is a gross generalization, as one bad gun idea does not automatically extend to every gun idea.
That is an opinion, not a fact. Further, many very well researched and argued posts have been made over the past several years, showing that guns can fit in very well with the theme and setting of Minecraft.
That is irrelevant. How many types of "digging tool" are there? How many close-ranged weapons (count anything that increases damage over your bare hands) are there? How many different foods? How many types of block?
You're wrong. You are allowed to bump threads, you're just not allowed to constantly post 'bump'.
As far as I know, bumping for the sake of bumping is not allowed. However, I do not understand this horror people have about people posting in open topics. If it isn't locked, it is open for discussion. If it is open for discussion, people may say what they will. There is no such thing as "necro".
My thoughts exactly.
Oh really? What exactly doesn't "fit in" then? Lemme see here...
Do we have gunpowder? Yes.
Does Steve understand how it works? Well, he can make TNT, so he must.
Can Steve make complicated items? Pistons, automated Minecarts, and Jukeboxes say yes.
How about small parts? We have clockwork in Clocks. That's a yes.
Can we find all the other materials we need? Hmm...Wood, Iron, either Flint or a burning stick to ignite the powder; so yes.
Nope...not seeing the problem here.
I wish more people would accept this.
Solution to make guns useful: Wind. Bullets would curve slightly with the wind. The wind would change once every second. In order to see what direction the wind is going, you can craft a flag with sticks and wool. The flag would point in a similar manner to the compass. If it's raining or snowing the wind should be more aggressive than usual, requiring more skill. There should be 5 stages of wind, where 0 is no wind and 5 is a lot of wind.
The direction the wind goes is random, but the wind won't change with more than one stage every second. If the wind stage is 1 and the wind is going to your left, the bullet will curve 1 block to the left every 30 blocks it travels. If the stage is 5 it will go a whopping 5 blocks to your left every 30 blocks. The most logical solution when hunting your prey would be waiting until the stage is 0 or 1 before firing. However, if your target is moving towards you or you're trying to hit a fleeing target you would have to depend on your luck by shooting without checking your flag.
Instead of a musket, it should be more of a mosin-nagant in terms of accuracy and such. You should also be able to place a silencer and scope on it. (No, I'm not wanting to turn Minecraft into call of duty) You can enter scope mode by right clicking, and you'd shoot by left clicking. Silencers would remove the white flash (not the smoke) when shooting. Flags could also be placeable, so people can turn their guard-towers into sniper nests by placing down a flag.
While this would be cool, I'd rather have more melee weapons or different kinds of bows.
What we have is a simple, muzzle-fed, single shot black powder weapon. So...what's true about such firearms? Well, first of all, they take a long time to reload. For simplicity's sake, lets say that in Minecraft terms it would take three, maybe four times as long as charging a bow fully...and you wouldn't have the option to take less time. Second, they aren't accurate. While the bow has a predictable arc, a gun would likely have to use a random deviation...making it less reliable. The last point ties into the previous. Early firearms didn't have the range of bows. So a gun that was made to fill the role of being a gun wouldn't be "another long-range weapon". It would be the only mid-range weapon. So much so, in fact, that I would argue that the bow should get a range boost if guns were added, and an added mechanic that gives a bonus to damage at far range.
That, of course, is just using the current system, though. I'm also inclined to question the wisdom that we only need one ranged weapon. How many melee weapons to we have? If you answered "One"...well, go count again. The sword is supposed to be our melee option, but there are also variations for each material class, plus every other tool gives a bonus to melee damage as well. My math may be off, but let's take a count here: Five tool types, plus swords, times five materials...plus your fist...that's, what, thirty-one melee weapons? However, there's only one ranged weapon.
Leaving all that aside, though, it's common knowledge that combat could use some improvements in this game. So a firearm doesn't have to compete with the bow at all. They could both be just as good in every way, but specialize to a different niche. For instance, I've proposed a change to the combat system myself, with the goal of satisfying those that want more weapons in the game and making combat a little more strategic, where different weapons deal more or less damage depending on the mob (idea being that you only need to ever use one weapon, but are rewarded for using the one best suited to a fight). With that system, I introduced the idea of both guns and crossbows alongside the bow, with each being about the same but getting an advantage against different mobs.
The point I am trying to make here is that people should not dismiss the idea of guns simply because they are guns. It depends entirely on how they are implemented as to whether or not they can work, and despite the bad ideas out there, some of the people putting these ideas together really know their stuff and are working to come up with a way that makes things fair. So rather than saying, "A gun is redundant." or "A gun doesn't match the theme/setting of the game." you should look at the idea as a whole and say "If this didn't have the word gun in it...if I didn't know what a gun was...what would I think of this idea?" and "How can I make this idea not be redundant?" or "Is there a way this can be made to fit into the game?".
^
First of all, they aren't considering that Minecraft's setting is actually quite flexible. You can't pin it down as matching a particular era of human history, because it doesn't. It takes little bits of different time periods, like a sample platter of history, then mixes it all together with fantastical elements that never have been. Frankly, there are only two arguments that I have ever found fully reasonable to Minecraft's setting. Either it has no set time period, which is easiest and most likely, or for those that absolutely need a time period it is post-apocalyptic and set in the ruins of a world that once had technology before civilization was destroyed.
The second thing people forget, though, is that no suggestion is set in stone. What's really important isn't how you sprite it, or how the actual nuts and bolts mechanics work. These things are subject to developer purview. They can, and almost certainly will, be changed from the original concept if the idea is used. Pistons are a great example. The mod version was popular, and there was a huge push for it in vanilla Minecraft. Mojang finally added them, but with an altered appearance and mechanics that better fit Minecraft. So you can't really criticize an idea for not fitting the setting. It's pretty much impossible that any idea will fit perfectly with what the developers have in mind, and if they take the idea they will make it fit. The only thing that's important is if the basic principle can be used...and sometimes demonstrating that ways to make it fit exist.
Thinking that way would be like thinking...
"Some Jewish people are greedy, therefore all Jewish people are greedy."
"Some Negros steal, therefore all Negros are thieves."
"Some Caucasians are prejudiced, therefore Caucasians are bigots."
"Some Asians are terrible drivers, therefore Asians cannot drive."
Please note, none of these statements are correct. They are examples of the kind of flawed logic that leads to forming very stupid opinions. This is not to say that disliking gun threads is the same as racism, only that the same kind of judgemental, unreasoning attitude and lack of valid reason goes into each. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with a gun suggestion based on its flaws/merits, and even gun supporters disagree with terrible ideas. However, there is something very wrong with criticising a gun thread simply because it is a gun thread.
A telescope: you can use this on its own to look at things farther away. You can also combine the telescope with the Arquebus or a crossbow to allow sniper-like capabilities while keeping to the theme of Minecraft.
Iron strips: strips of iron that can be added to a bow. it makes an improved bow that has more durability and a harder hit.
Stand: A block that an arquebus or crossbow can be attached to. This would transform the weapon into a turret. The Stand could also be used for other purposes, maybe attaching a telescope to watch the stars!
in Minecraft.However, I lately was lately fiddling with the idea of muskets or other
low-tech guns. A musket is a good enough weapon to outdo a bow, but not so
technilogicaly advanced that you could just say "it just doesen't fit!". Muskets
are a very early type of gun, so they just might work. The main reason I'm propsing
this is that I need a better weapon for sniping mobs. A bow and arow just doesen't
always do the trick.
To craft the musket, you would craft 3 iron blocks (blocks, not ingots)
across the middle of the grid and one logon the bottom-left corner. For ammunition,
you craft 1 iron ingot above 1 gunpowder to create 10 musket balls.
The advantages would be that it would fire more at a MUCH straighter trajectory than a bow and quite a bit faster, and would not need charging.
The main disadvantage is that it takes a lot of iron to make and doesen't have a great deal of durability-it can fire about 40 musket balls before breaking and needing to be replaced. That doesen't sound too bad, but consider how long it will take to replace the gun and ammo.
Maybe different projectile launchers. Slingshot, cannon, catipult, e.g.
Question, would you be able to make a musket with out proper tools?
Funny how you mention cannons, which happen to be a form of primitive artillery, of which firearms are based.
What came first?
what can be made without advanced knowledge?
Telescope: A good idea; however, I'm not one for attachments, so I think it would be better as just an item.
Iron strips: Not too sure on this one.
Stand: Now this is a really good idea.
You slaughter animals for their hides and flesh.
You destroy the landscape and gouge out the earth to build your monuments to vanity.
And yet you call me monster.
~creeper