The first illustration of a Matchlock was created in 1475, and considering everyone says that Notch is strictly keeping it in a medieval time period, these would be perfect, as they were made in the late Middle Age era.
As they are "guns", and they do fit the era that Notch would like to see in Minecraft, I would like to suggest on how to make it.
I would probably suggest that they are made in some design of a mixture of wood and metal, and use gun powder from those oh so lovable Creepers. Just an idea on their form would be this: [] []
= Redstone
Which considering redstone is used to activate triggers or switches, it could be used to activate the ammunition loading mechanism on the rifle.
Comments and suggestions to add on to my idea are greatly appreciated.
I found this thread and I have a easy way for notch to add the gun/rifle if he wants to. To make the gun we simply take 4 steel/iron (if you prefer iron over steel) and put it in like this:
[] [] [] [] []
You won't need redstone as the gun is just a container that directs the bullet and ignites the gunpowder at the back of the bullet. The gun will act exactly like the bow in use and for attacking. The gun will be a bit more powerful for the rarity of gunpowder. Not too much but just enough to make up for it. To avoid spamming if you happen to have lots of gunpowder the gun will fire slightly slower, not much but there is a delay between firing and the next time you can fire. Now for the bullets: Simply take 1 gunpowder and 1 steel/iron and put it into the crafting square like so:
[] [] [] = 4 bullets
[] [] []
There is steel/iron on ether side of the gunpowder to prevent making bullets on your 2x2 crafting square, and to encase the gunpowder. The gun will use the bullets exactly like the bow uses arrows. Notch can easily just copy the code for the bow and change it a little to make it a gun. This would probably be the way Notch would add it. This would also advance the power of your ranged weapons, as you can't upgrade or have a better version of the bow. What do you guys think about it?
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Bet you didn't think creepers could come out a ceiling.
Okay. I've been reading up through this entire thread. All 26 insane pages of it. There have been good suggestions, and there have been random ones. Now, onto my explanation before I regret this.
The word gun conjures up many images to those opposed to this weapon on MC, mainly because their concept of the gun revolves around the modern day rapid fire firearms available, meaning MAC-10s, Uzis, M4 Carbines, AK-74s, and the like. I understand their fear of adding weapons to those specifications into the game of MC, but the ones suggesting we add fireams in the first place are NOT attempting to add weapons of that caliber in-game, solely for the reason that Minecraft was not created to have that kind of firepower. If the ones suggesting we add firearms to Minecraft wanted such a thing, they wouldn't have gotten Minecraft in the first place.
The complaints about "histories" and "eras" also falls into play here, as there is no clearly defined era or history for Minecraft. There is a bit of a fantasy aspect to it, but that's about as far as it goes. You still have to survive on a desolate piece of land with bountiful resources at your disposal, however you must approach each one intelligently, and do it in a way to keep the resource available to you close by.
A firearm wearing down may seem like a good idea, but let's look at the humble Flintlock (If a firearm is to be implemented in the game, Matchlocks and flintlocks are the primary candidates). A flintlock can fire off several shots before it has to be cleaned. Flintlocks are fussy things, but they don't tend to wear down over time. Flints will need to be replaced, and the gun will have to be cleaned. That is why I figure the flint should have the weardown, and not the gun itself. Crafting it is already complicated enough, why do we have to replace the whole thing every time it fires off 15 or 20 rounds? Just a few pieces, maybe, but not the whole firearm. Add a cleaning element to the firearm, give cloth another thing to do. Add it to the stick, you got a swab for your firearm. Just add a bucket of water.
Gunpowder doesn't always have to be used to fire the weapon either, as a mixture of coal and sulfur could also be used. Granted, crafting black powder with the alternatives will take TIME, but it will not be complicated. The only thing taking time would be gathering the ingredients together. Same goes with ammunition. Cobblestone can be sufficient to use as slugs just as well as iron bits. Diamonds would work too. Different ammo, different damage.
Accuracy? More accuracy if you're firing stationary without running around. Less if you fire from the hip. Accuracy decreases over a set distance, and the slug will fly off in a random direction, but always pulled downward.
A firearm of old will take time to fire. Reloading and pulling the trigger will delay the rate of fire. Personal crafting area works fine for reload time, as a skilled player will fire at a faster rate than a relative new player. Pulling the trigger will produce a hiss for about a second or two to warn something that a shot is about to be fired, whether NPC or another player on a server. It would give them time to get out of the way IF THEY CAN HEAR IT. Otherwise, they'll get hit by a projectile that CAN be seen. If you can see an arrow flying slowly in Minecraft, a Bullet will fly faster, but still be seen in the game. Notch can handle that. It will be harder to avoid, however, as the projectile is flying faster.
This "no handheld firearms, only cannons" business is ridiculous too. You would allow a significantly more powerful weapon in game, but not a tiny version of it to use to hunt game, or defend the homestead from some nasty creeper coming in to blow a chunk out of your abode.
Crossbows are okay, no argument there, but why just limit the armory to that? It IS a sandbox game, after all. Most Minecrafters will spend more time on singleplayer than multiplayer due to griefers (Can't prove it, don't quote me on that).
On servers, the moderators can be allowed to make the decision of whether or not to add firearms, and limit those who use it. Townships can raise militias against mobs or other townships. Have a defense against griefers that wander in that day. Something to add. firearms can be used to hunt, not just ward off bad guys.
As for weapon limit, I'm up for it. Limit it to maybe two flintlock long range guns and two flintlock pistols or something, I dunno. Non stackable. But for God's sake, don't go wearing down the whole gun to keep the limit.
Well, that's my two cents, and I'm sticking to it.
im completely for any weapon that can deal high damage to mobs. they have the advantage of numbers, and equal firepower with nearly perfect aim. a boost in ranged firepower for the player would be great.
also, anyone else get the feeling that melee weapons only work when you click a certain place on the mobs?
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if your on limewire, it's for some kind of illegal software, though what kind of illegal software you end up downloading is up to luck, not you.
Honestly, I have not read EVERY page, I don't have the patience for that. I have read the first and last pages like any good college student. :-)
Anyways, I have seen some great suggestions, and read some great arguments. Though I can't quite agree with some of the thought trains of some of my fellow Minecraftians. There are a decent amount of people who seem to want no guns in the game, as if it will be tainted by them just being available. I find this mentality to be rather "foolish" for lack of a better word. If a person doesn't want to use an item that is available to them, then they don't have to use it. If they are worried about people in multiplayer using it, then find a server that disallows them. Or just have a gentleman's agreement that no one will use the gun in a fight.
End "rant"
I can accept a less powerful or limited gun. I like the suggestions of a gun that fires slower. I would personally like to see two types of guns implimented in the game. The first would be the pistol, it would be great for close quarters fighting (5-10 squares before the accuracy goes to pot), but crappy for longer distances. The other gun would be the musket, this would be very slow firing and be great for longer distances (A good 50 or so). The pistol would be the equivalent of the bow for hte gus. It would take about 5 seconds to "reload", reloading would take place automatically with premade cartriges.
The musket would be similar to the pistol in most ways except in its reload time, which would be about 10 seconds between shots. The reload times are arbitrary, but you get the idea. I figure that the ammo would be drawn from the same collection of cartriges.
Pistol: Shorter construction to represent the smaller gun. It could use a log or plank for the handle.
[] [] []
[] []
Musket: Same general idea as above.
[] []
[] []
Ammo: I figured that this construction for ammo was accurate for these types of guns. One of these sets would create 2-4 cartriges/shots.
[] []
[] []
[] [] = paper
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It is not the weapon that makes the warrior, but the warrior that makes the weapon.
I agree with Ben. I don't like using the shovel or axe, because it doesn't take that long to get sand/mud/gravel/wood for me anyway (That, or I just enjoy the saying "punching trees gives me wood", I dunno). I usually don't make them. Only tool I'd use the entire time are pickaxes. Usually, I'd have about six or seven pickaxes in my inventory and just go from there. Bows give you a slight advantage over the creeper's explosive radius, why not give a slow firing musket a slightly larger range to stay well clear of the blast radius when you kill it?
I have to say that although I only read through about half of this thread I have found ben's post above to be one of the most rational one on this entire website. I agree with all of his point with the exception that I believe there should be either in addition to the musket or to replace it: an aquerbus. something that has to be reloaded from the inventory 2x2 crafting box. the idea for this weapon that I prefer is that it could fire any material but the reload would reduce its combat effectiveness compared to bows,or theoretically pistols or muskets.
this diagram would be how to "craft" an aquerbus loaded with cobblestone.
[>>-i>] = aquerbus
[] [>>-i>]
this is my sugestion for crafting the aquerbus itself:
Ok my ideas, if they've been posted already feel free to yell at me for my laziness.
Ok this sounds stupid but i think to balance out the gun they should make it sort of like assassins creed, by that I mean the longer you stay stationary and aim at the target the more accurate but then I guess how they implement it in that game is with a lock on system so I guess the longer you stay stationary.
(switching to bullet points)
Flintlock gun
-The longer you stay still the better the accuracy
-Would be pretty much impossible to hit someone at great distances unless you where at max accuracy
-Significantly larger power than bow
-Significantly longer loading time than the bow (which should have a load time as is) which could be represented with a status bar over the icon.
-Keep bullets in inventory like bow
-Crafted = (4 or 8) bullets (with a possibility of failure)
-Gun should wear down like swords and other tools but should wear down fairly slowly
Cannon
I say include cannon because I remember hearing about a castle-siege like mode if such a thing was not proposed disregard this because it would be quite impractical
-Not sure how to craft
-Right Click to Man the cannon
-4 square radius terrain damage (like destroys blocks) to blocks but the stronger blocks like would have a smaller damage radius
-somehow if the cannon ball could roll that'd be nice
- i have no idea for crafting the cannon ball cause i don't know how to make it difficult to obtain but also to make it make sense
Two ideas for loading it
1) you have another player who would right click it while your manning it which would bring up a crafting screen and would put in Cannonball
if he put it in the wrong order it could back fire and ruin the cannon
a problem would be that this would be boring for the loader
The argument about guns is not going to stop, Notch needs to add it with what he and his staff thinks is best and then rebalance it according to player input, this is the only way it can become a possible weapon... There are prototypes then the final result, we need to start off with a prototype.
I would be okay with guns, but it doesn't fit with the Minecraft theme. TNT is the only thing that semi strays away, but that isn't a weapon that you can just demolish creepers with. Minecraft is supposed to have challenge when you play it with monsters. A 50+ block range gun would ravage that challenge. If you don't want all the challenge of it, then play on Easy or Peaceful, but I don't think you need a gun to make it easier.
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FIND DUNGEON. TURN PEACEFUL ON.
"Is mayonnaise an instrument?"
It's one of the more balanced 'guns' I've seen up to today, considering that the Arquebus is also in Medieval times as a support weapon, made in 1475 from what I can tell. They also called it the Bow-Gun. xD
In my opinion, it should be at least considered and not thrown away on the assumption of Minecraft suddenly becoming a Shooter.
Backfiring would be a good idea. The gun should deal 20 damage and kill anything it hits, but have a 10% chance of exploding and dealing the player 20 damage instead, killing him and destroying the gun.
No, that's too much of a risk. No one would use a gun if that was the balancing mechanic.
As suggested earlier in the thread, it should deal 9 damage (varying at different distances of course). It would nearly kill a mob, and also encourage people to use another weapon to finish the mob off instead of wasting another shot.
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[quote=8bit]
By balance, do you mean make it totally worthless?
To those who don't know there has been a mod created for flintlocks and and blunderbusses it's pretty cool and it's not absurd like SDK's mod that has laser guided weaponry. Using the flintlock is pretty satisfactory but pretty stupid to do when surrounded by mobs, I find myself having to carry three when I want protection at night and a sword just like this thread implied would happen.
Check it out, and to those who are blindly opposed to firearms this could teach them a few things or two on how this proposition would be balanced
Minecraft : Creeper Crisis 2
Team Craftress 2
Counter-Block
I love the sound of guns in minecraft although they would probably be unbalanced/BOOMHEADSHOT-ish.
I approve on most parts.
Yeh, Dungeons and Spawners, Final Minetasy, Mine and Magic, Ultminea, Dungeon Looter 2, and Legocraft are getting a bit stale
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BETA
"When we release a pure bugfix update, people get VERY upset ("NOTHING CHANGED!").. Adding features gives us much happier users. But I do realize that it's only happier users in the short term." - Notch
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If you do not know what this is, google it.
The first illustration of a Matchlock was created in 1475, and considering everyone says that Notch is strictly keeping it in a medieval time period, these would be perfect, as they were made in the late Middle Age era.
As they are "guns", and they do fit the era that Notch would like to see in Minecraft, I would like to suggest on how to make it.
I would probably suggest that they are made in some design of a mixture of wood and metal, and use gun powder from those oh so lovable Creepers. Just an idea on their form would be this:
Which considering redstone is used to activate triggers or switches, it could be used to activate the ammunition loading mechanism on the rifle.
Comments and suggestions to add on to my idea are greatly appreciated.
Go to Nether.
Build minecarts with boosters.
YOU ARE NOW GOING 320 TILES/SEC
u jelly?
On a serious note, I approve of the idea of guns being really powerful but slow reloading. I wouldn't mind having to reload them constantly.
[] [] []
You won't need redstone as the gun is just a container that directs the bullet and ignites the gunpowder at the back of the bullet. The gun will act exactly like the bow in use and for attacking. The gun will be a bit more powerful for the rarity of gunpowder. Not too much but just enough to make up for it. To avoid spamming if you happen to have lots of gunpowder the gun will fire slightly slower, not much but there is a delay between firing and the next time you can fire. Now for the bullets: Simply take 1 gunpowder and 1 steel/iron and put it into the crafting square like so:
[] [] []
[] [] []
There is steel/iron on ether side of the gunpowder to prevent making bullets on your 2x2 crafting square, and to encase the gunpowder. The gun will use the bullets exactly like the bow uses arrows. Notch can easily just copy the code for the bow and change it a little to make it a gun. This would probably be the way Notch would add it. This would also advance the power of your ranged weapons, as you can't upgrade or have a better version of the bow. What do you guys think about it?
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Curse PremiumThe word gun conjures up many images to those opposed to this weapon on MC, mainly because their concept of the gun revolves around the modern day rapid fire firearms available, meaning MAC-10s, Uzis, M4 Carbines, AK-74s, and the like. I understand their fear of adding weapons to those specifications into the game of MC, but the ones suggesting we add fireams in the first place are NOT attempting to add weapons of that caliber in-game, solely for the reason that Minecraft was not created to have that kind of firepower. If the ones suggesting we add firearms to Minecraft wanted such a thing, they wouldn't have gotten Minecraft in the first place.
The complaints about "histories" and "eras" also falls into play here, as there is no clearly defined era or history for Minecraft. There is a bit of a fantasy aspect to it, but that's about as far as it goes. You still have to survive on a desolate piece of land with bountiful resources at your disposal, however you must approach each one intelligently, and do it in a way to keep the resource available to you close by.
A firearm wearing down may seem like a good idea, but let's look at the humble Flintlock (If a firearm is to be implemented in the game, Matchlocks and flintlocks are the primary candidates). A flintlock can fire off several shots before it has to be cleaned. Flintlocks are fussy things, but they don't tend to wear down over time. Flints will need to be replaced, and the gun will have to be cleaned. That is why I figure the flint should have the weardown, and not the gun itself. Crafting it is already complicated enough, why do we have to replace the whole thing every time it fires off 15 or 20 rounds? Just a few pieces, maybe, but not the whole firearm. Add a cleaning element to the firearm, give cloth another thing to do. Add it to the stick, you got a swab for your firearm. Just add a bucket of water.
Gunpowder doesn't always have to be used to fire the weapon either, as a mixture of coal and sulfur could also be used. Granted, crafting black powder with the alternatives will take TIME, but it will not be complicated. The only thing taking time would be gathering the ingredients together. Same goes with ammunition. Cobblestone can be sufficient to use as slugs just as well as iron bits. Diamonds would work too. Different ammo, different damage.
Accuracy? More accuracy if you're firing stationary without running around. Less if you fire from the hip. Accuracy decreases over a set distance, and the slug will fly off in a random direction, but always pulled downward.
A firearm of old will take time to fire. Reloading and pulling the trigger will delay the rate of fire. Personal crafting area works fine for reload time, as a skilled player will fire at a faster rate than a relative new player. Pulling the trigger will produce a hiss for about a second or two to warn something that a shot is about to be fired, whether NPC or another player on a server. It would give them time to get out of the way IF THEY CAN HEAR IT. Otherwise, they'll get hit by a projectile that CAN be seen. If you can see an arrow flying slowly in Minecraft, a Bullet will fly faster, but still be seen in the game. Notch can handle that. It will be harder to avoid, however, as the projectile is flying faster.
This "no handheld firearms, only cannons" business is ridiculous too. You would allow a significantly more powerful weapon in game, but not a tiny version of it to use to hunt game, or defend the homestead from some nasty creeper coming in to blow a chunk out of your abode.
Crossbows are okay, no argument there, but why just limit the armory to that? It IS a sandbox game, after all. Most Minecrafters will spend more time on singleplayer than multiplayer due to griefers (Can't prove it, don't quote me on that).
On servers, the moderators can be allowed to make the decision of whether or not to add firearms, and limit those who use it. Townships can raise militias against mobs or other townships. Have a defense against griefers that wander in that day. Something to add. firearms can be used to hunt, not just ward off bad guys.
As for weapon limit, I'm up for it. Limit it to maybe two flintlock long range guns and two flintlock pistols or something, I dunno. Non stackable. But for God's sake, don't go wearing down the whole gun to keep the limit.
Well, that's my two cents, and I'm sticking to it.
also, anyone else get the feeling that melee weapons only work when you click a certain place on the mobs?
Team Craftress 2
Counter-Block
I love the sound of guns in minecraft although they would probably be unbalanced/BOOMHEADSHOT-ish.
I approve on most parts.
Honestly, I have not read EVERY page, I don't have the patience for that. I have read the first and last pages like any good college student. :-)
Anyways, I have seen some great suggestions, and read some great arguments. Though I can't quite agree with some of the thought trains of some of my fellow Minecraftians. There are a decent amount of people who seem to want no guns in the game, as if it will be tainted by them just being available. I find this mentality to be rather "foolish" for lack of a better word. If a person doesn't want to use an item that is available to them, then they don't have to use it. If they are worried about people in multiplayer using it, then find a server that disallows them. Or just have a gentleman's agreement that no one will use the gun in a fight.
End "rant"
I can accept a less powerful or limited gun. I like the suggestions of a gun that fires slower. I would personally like to see two types of guns implimented in the game. The first would be the pistol, it would be great for close quarters fighting (5-10 squares before the accuracy goes to pot), but crappy for longer distances. The other gun would be the musket, this would be very slow firing and be great for longer distances (A good 50 or so). The pistol would be the equivalent of the bow for hte gus. It would take about 5 seconds to "reload", reloading would take place automatically with premade cartriges.
The musket would be similar to the pistol in most ways except in its reload time, which would be about 10 seconds between shots. The reload times are arbitrary, but you get the idea. I figure that the ammo would be drawn from the same collection of cartriges.
Pistol: Shorter construction to represent the smaller gun. It could use a log or plank for the handle.
[]
[]
Musket: Same general idea as above.
[] []
[] []
Ammo: I figured that this construction for ammo was accurate for these types of guns. One of these sets would create 2-4 cartriges/shots.
[]
[]
[]
It is not the weapon that makes the warrior, but the warrior that makes the weapon.
How old are you?
Also... i would like cannons... but they had a chance to backfire :smile.gif:
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Curse Premiumthis diagram would be how to "craft" an aquerbus loaded with cobblestone.
[>>-i>] = aquerbus
[] [>>-i>]
this is my sugestion for crafting the aquerbus itself:
[] []
...
Ok this sounds stupid but i think to balance out the gun they should make it sort of like assassins creed, by that I mean the longer you stay stationary and aim at the target the more accurate but then I guess how they implement it in that game is with a lock on system so I guess the longer you stay stationary.
(switching to bullet points)
-Would be pretty much impossible to hit someone at great distances unless you where at max accuracy
-Significantly larger power than bow
-Significantly longer loading time than the bow (which should have a load time as is) which could be represented with a status bar over the icon.
-Keep bullets in inventory like bow
-Crafted
-Gun should wear down like swords and other tools but should wear down fairly slowly
-Not sure how to craft
-Right Click to Man the cannon
-4 square radius terrain damage (like destroys blocks) to
-somehow if the cannon ball could roll that'd be nice
- i have no idea for crafting the cannon ball cause i don't know how to make it difficult to obtain but also to make it make sense
Two ideas for loading it
1) you have another player who would right click it while your manning it which would bring up a crafting screen and would put in
if he put it in the wrong order it could back fire and ruin the cannon
a problem would be that this would be boring for the loader
2) Just a plain ol' loading status bar
For example, having to create the wooden parts, a fire lock, and a barrel.
barrel would be a line of iron ingots horizonatally placed on a work bench
stock:
[] []
[] [] []
and i havent thought of a schematic for the fire lock yet but it should require some iron.
now, at a workbench, you combine them + a pice of flint inorder to assemble a musket.
reload would be done through right clicking while the musket is equipped, along with a bag of musket balls and gun powder.
thats my idea for muskets....
"Is mayonnaise an instrument?"
It's one of the more balanced 'guns' I've seen up to today, considering that the Arquebus is also in Medieval times as a support weapon, made in 1475 from what I can tell. They also called it the Bow-Gun. xD
In my opinion, it should be at least considered and not thrown away on the assumption of Minecraft suddenly becoming a Shooter.
No, that's too much of a risk. No one would use a gun if that was the balancing mechanic.
As suggested earlier in the thread, it should deal 9 damage (varying at different distances of course). It would nearly kill a mob, and also encourage people to use another weapon to finish the mob off instead of wasting another shot.
[quote=8bit]
By balance, do you mean make it totally worthless?
Check it out, and to those who are blindly opposed to firearms this could teach them a few things or two on how this proposition would be balanced
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=110160
Yeh, Dungeons and Spawners, Final Minetasy, Mine and Magic, Ultminea, Dungeon Looter 2, and Legocraft are getting a bit stale
"When we release a pure bugfix update, people get VERY upset ("NOTHING CHANGED!").. Adding features gives us much happier users. But I do realize that it's only happier users in the short term." - Notch