theicychameleon wrote :
> As a loading dynamic maybe holding down shift and hitting left click would
> have the "gun" graphic switch to vertical and bring up the
> reloading screen:
> Then once you've finished release shift and the gun flips back to firing
> position :biggrin.gif: It doesn't make much sense to reload something like this on the
> move anyway so I can't see the key coming into conflict.
This seems like an excellent idea.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you are about to make a rebuttal, consider responding to the entire post.
I think that not only would a gun be way underpowered. But also would take away from the game a lot. I mean, the game has kind of a 500-1500AD feel with the tech.
link related, so might as well i just copy everything there to here so "guns" can be in just one thread
Hi, idk if anyone brought this up already or not but
w/e, so i think Notch should add, hey maybe he has thought of that already since he added gunpowder in the game.... lemme think.
okay, 1. The Shotgun, yanno those farmer-style single or double barrel hunting shotgun, you know what im talking about
since gunpowder are so underused, like it can only be use for making TNT, so might as well jsut make a shotgun eh?
The reason why i pick shotgun was that if I were to suggest a rifle than everyone would go sniper crazy and ****, than the bow and arrows or the crossbow the other guy suggest would be obsolete and that will be no fun. (yes i love my bow)
so Shotgun, the good and the bad just to make it sounds balanced, the Good thing is that when fired, it gives Blast-Radious, which means when a couple of mob or the whole crowd of 'em coming at you, you fire a shotgun round at em(i'll explain more about ammunition later), so when fired, the ammunition prolly flies for two or three blocks or more(up to community suggestion, how 'bout that, eh?) just to make sure everyone still keep the bow, you know what i mean.
p.s. It's for Crowd-control
ok BUT first i'll explain the Shotgun ammunition first
right now we got like a couple of underused item,
#1Gunpower
#2Gravel
#3Coal
#4Reeds
#5Cobblestone
#6Flint and Stone
#7Leather
now let's talk about shotgun rounds and no i dont want to have a lazer gun, but maybe in the future when we think of something to use crystal with, you know what that is.
______________________________________________________________________________________________
Shotgun Round
#1 basic shotgun round, lets start with what a farmer would have, eh?
we all know that a shotgun round would spread at the direction where you fire you guns, right?
cool, the gravel, it's so useless other than to produce flint or to crush that poor fellow who tries to stab your ass with his arrow, we can craft gravels into tens or twenty of Round Spherical rock shotgun pellets, maybe just eight pellets, how bout that. it won't really be that painful when being shot at coz i bet most small rocks would be pound to dust when fired.
to construct a round of basic shotguns 8+ pellets (4 stacks just like arrows)
[] [] []
[] [] []
[]
#2 basic shotgun round other than that pellets, we also have that shotgun slug, yes that one big tough little thing that can punch a man off the round, it would hurt a little bit more but it doesn't spread out like pellets does and in order to keep it from too over-powering than bow and arrows, we'll make sure that it wont fly as far as arrows and even if the slugs did travel far, it would still deal far more less damage than arrows, like-wise with the pellets mentioned above.
and to craft that slug, we could use the cobblestone
to construct a Single shotgun cobblestone slug (in the stack 4 of cause) (realism-wise, you have no idea how hard it is to carve a rock into a big round slug without the rock cracks so we will use two cobble stone because i know a common person doing so will cracks a lots of rocks)
[] [] []
[] [] []
[]
#3 iron shotgun 8+pellets and slug well duh, the 8 pellets and slug would hurt more than its stoney gravelish counterparts.
to construct them, and in other to not make it too easy just so arrows can still be in league like how those Sniper in TF2 does with their huntsman.
to construct iron shotgun 8+ pellets, players will need that smelt tools YES just to make it more tedious so ppl like me will still stick to our trusty bow and arrows, i'll explain more about the bullet smelt tools later but i'll tell you that there's two type of bullet smelt tools, and in this case we shall call the bullet smelt tool A
when constructing the 8 iron pellets (in the stack of 4)
first player would have to smelt the iron ingots into melted iron first!
then
[] [] []
[] []
[] [] [-insert bullet smelt tools A here-]
once you got your bullets, you can still keep your bullet smelt tools but it has a life bar, just like any other tools.
for a stack of 4 iron shotgun slugs, player will have to use bullet smelt tool B
[] [] []
[] []
[] [] [-insert bullet smelt tools B here-]
for okay this will sum up the bullets and all, but like wise, using gold or some other metals will be the same with how we craft iron bullets
ok now i'll explain the Gunpowder thing
the Gunpowder will suggest how far and how hard it will fires the pellets or slugs
right now we have two srsly under-used items, the Creepers's Gunpowder and Coal
and there's two type of gunpowder, the weaker one and stronger one, and it will also affect the reload time too hur hur hur, yes it takes a really long time to load a gun just so we wont see duke nukem or some trigger-happy gordon freeman spraying bullets allover the place in Minecraft, haha you know what i mean, we all have seen in in any fps Games.
#1 the GunpowderA (yes the weak one and have a longer reload time)
yanno how all those folks back then having their little bag of iron pellets and a leather flask of gunpowder? yeah exactly that. but before i actually explain how to craft the gunpowder, i'll first explain how to make the bag of it first
to make a common gunpowder leather bag first we need to kill some cows duh yadda yadda and since we dont have a leather icon to the right panel there, im gonan label leather as [L]
[] [] []
[] [] [L]
[] [L] [L]
and only after we craf that leather gunpowder bag than only we can fill it with gunpowder, and yes that's exactly how you craft a bag of gunpowder, i'll label a leather bag as [LB]
[] [] []
[] []
[] [LB] []
easy!,
doing so will craft you shots in a stack of 4 and OH, once you fire all out, you can still keep the leather bag but come and think about it, i dont know what do you guys think, should we make it more tedious just so we could hunt those loud moo-mooing cow outside? means we'll have to make the leather bags again lol. but bleh
#2 The GunpowderB, yes the strong one
constructing these will be even harder and yes it creates more punch and also affect the reloading time.
to construct one Gunpowder B we will still need that leather bullets bags that i mentioned above hahahahaha
[] []
[] []
[] [Paper] []
YES im talking about Paper Gunpowder cartridge! and it will also be crafted into a stack of 4
and in order to be able to USE it, you need the Leather bullet bags otherwise, if will keep on falling out or destroy under those item weight in your inventory, yes it is very fragile coz ... it's PAPER!!! oh btw about the rarity of reeds, ask notch about it.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
okay now the Bullet Smelt Tools
there's two type to create two different type of bullets, the pellets and the slugs and it's a tools so it has a life bar jsut like any other tools!
The bullet smelt tools can be made from either Stone, Iron, Diamonds, surely not Gold LOL but if want sure why not.
ok #1 the Bullet Smelt tools for Pellets round you would
[] [] []
[] []
[] []
#2 the BST for Slug rounds you would
[] [] [] []
[] []
come and think about it, we could uses these bullet smelt tools for creating iron arrow heads so we dont have to stick to flints anymore yay!
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
Ok finally the Construction of the SHOTGUN itself, oh btw it's a tool so it will have a lifebar just like any other tool like for example, YOU F*king SWORDD!!
you would need Iron, and Wood, duh
and to construct a Single-barrel Shotgun which one fire single shot at a time [] [] []
[]
and to construct a double-barrel Shotgun which you can fire twice but the downside, a time longer than the singlebarrel shotgun's Reload time. i'll explain more about the firing stuff and time stuff yanno, like later. []
[]
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
Firing Mechanism
so like what i mentioned earlier, there's many factors revolving the Shotgun itself
there's three i mean four!
#1Firing Range and Radious
#2Firing Damage
#3Reload Time
#4requiarement to Fire the gun
#1 Firing Range and Radious
this will be effect by what bullets and gunpowder you use
a. Pellets + GunpowderA
the range would be 3 to 5 or less, but the pellets may still flies but it deals little to no damage coz imargine yourself, someone throw a small tiny rock at ya, what do you feel. and Each Pellets deals a small damage
The radious of it will be at point black, all 8 pellets will concentrate at one point, but the further it goes, the more it will spread and everytime you fires it will spread in random way
REMEMBER, bullets will be EFFECTED by GRAVITY!
b. Slugs + Gunpowder A
pretty much just as straight forward, it will fires like arrows, but it will deal more damage than arrows at point blank and will deal little to no damage after a distance, let's take 8 blocks away, it will feels like someone throws a rock or a snowball at you.
c. Pellets + Gunpowder B
Just like A but it will deal more damage and flies further
d. Slugs + Gunpowder B
Just like B but more distance, more power
#2Firing Damage
these will depends on what bullets you use
tier 1 bullets which is made of stones or gravels will have weaker damage than a common arrows
tier 2 bullets whiich is made of irons however will deal more damage than arrows however the damage will fade when the bullets travel thru a distance.
Bullets may be made from other material as well such as gold and diamond and who knows, maybe Bones too.
#3Reload Time
tier1 gunpowder will take a long time to laod, let's say for example 1 second to load,
tier2 which is a paper cartridge which is more compact than t1 gunpowder will be easier to reload so it will prolly take half a second to load the guns.
the single-barrel and the double-barrels, do the maths it's quite easy
single-barrel well, you only need to load one barrel but the double barrel, you'll have to load both so go figure!
just in case you're too lazy or stupid which i hope not, here, lemme do the maths for you
a single-barrel gun + T1 gunpowder = 1 second reload times
a single-barrel gun + T2 gunpoweder = half a second reload times
a double-barrel gun + T1 gunpowder = 2 second reload times/1 second to load one of the barrels
a double-barrel gun + T2 gunpowder = 1 second reload times/half a second to load one of the barrels.
#4requiarement to Fire the gun
and in order to fire the gun, you will have to equip yourself with the gun, DUH
have a loads of the bullets on you just like how we have stacks of arrows in our inventory and also last and no least
you need to have a stack of gunpowder on you!,
when firing the gun, the gun will lost some of it's health according to what material it is made from (lol stone shotgun, F*CK dejavu i dreamt about writing this last night)
you will also experience lost of bullets and gunpowder but unlike arrow,s you cant retrieve them once fired.
[edit] oh i forgot
you will need a flint and stone to fire the Gunpowders, YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS
or we could just use the Line from spider as a burning flint like those badass in the shakespears ,elizabethan and victorian era.
[] []
[] [Lines] []
[] [Lines] []
and it will eats away the lifebar of the burning line overtime.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
So that's basically it!
I have explained the Shotguns,
so you guys go figured,
feel free to put in ideas too
but srsly, lazer gun, wtf mang, i'll let someone figure that out inb4 redstone, diamonds and obsidians.
p.s. did i mention i dont want to see a machine guns in Minecraft? i still want to use my diamond swords.
Flintlock:
Some don't like my crafting recipe, but as it stands it can be done on a 3x3 crafting grid with materials already in game.
[] [] []
Cartridge:
Some folks didn't like my "musket bullets idea and were suggesting a paper cartridge. Some of the recipe's for that were ridiculous in my opinion requiring way too much paper in an effort to make the recipe resemble the shape of the thing. Here is my proposed recipe:
== Paper (made from 3 reeds as normal)
[] [] []
[] [] []
Makes 4 cartridges.
Game mechanics of flintlock:
1) Put "Unloaded Flintlock" to 2x2 crafting pane.
2) Put "Paper cartridges" to 2x2 crafting pane next to "Unloaded Flintlock"
3)Click craft and drag the newly made "Loaded Flintlock" to quick bar.
3)Select "Loaded Flintlock" and right-click once to "cock."
4)Aim, and right-click once more to fire.
5)*ssssSSSSSS...BOOM* sound plays and projectile fires at rate of 40 tiles/sec in a flat trajectory towards aim point. Smoke blocks and a flash also spawn.
Projectile should have a range of 70 tiles optimal (full damage) +20 tiles falloff (damage decreases until 0 at Optimal + Falloff).
provided it doesnt get out oof hand, takes a looong time to reload, and maybe has a small chance to misfire and explode in your hands, i think a musket or aqueebus or whatever would be a great addition.
I've stated my point here before, but might as well say it again:
There is such thing as balancing. Then there's over compensation. Minecraft is a game where enemies can kill you in less than 3 seconds, and silent, instant kill monsters spawn just as often as the weaker ones. Its also a game you can come equiped with a machinegun-like bow, and a sword that kills in two hits. Having to go into your inventory screen to reload just punishes players for wanting to use a gun by making them entirely worthless. There are less extreme ways to balance the weapon to other things.
Also, bear in mind that in most situations you aren't fighting just one enemy
To truely achieve balance, the weapon needs:
Inexpensive ammo: Either made with cobblestone and paper, or a new, coal-common material, preferably called lead. You have to hunt creepers to shoot your gun anyways, and iron is overused already.
A reload that you can actually move around with while preforming: A simple 2-3 second delay, where the gun get hidden from you screen (to signify reloading) is ideal. Having to stop while reloading makes it useless for a weapon that you use outside. It would only be feasable for shooting at stuff from inside the safety of a building.
Why? When monsters can kill you in less time then it takes to actually reload your gun, it becomes an issue if you cant kite them. Not only that, but 1/4 of the time, your fighting a ranged monster, and more likely then not, your fighting more then one. Even if you can manage to get one, the other would have gotten to you by the time you get your gun reloaded for the third shot.
To take two shots to kill: Otherwise, it becomes too easy to sit back and snipe monsters from your roof.
Without the gun being in this balance sweet-spot, it will easily sink into being UP or OP. Of course, I might be wrong, but if I am, im not far off with my concept of balance.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
~ I've thought about the phrase 'Money is the root of all evil' and I have to disagree. Evil isn't dependant on an object. I say that want is the root of all evil.
guns are'nt supposed to be a primary weapon. Even in civil war times volleys with muskets where to wear down the enemy. After the two armies marched up to one another the fighting was mainly with the muskets used as spears or clubs.
So muskets are not your only weapon.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from mjcabooseblu »
Muncher is right, listen to him, he can cure the blind and make paraplegics walk.
If the ammo is sort of expensive, I'd be in favor of bullets doing 8 or 9 damage. Still requires 2 shots to take down an enemy and encourages you to use a combination of weapons.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Well, after enjoying Minecraft for a long time I finally broke down and contributed back: exactly one adventure map. TRY IT NOW! YAY! Fall of Kingdoms
Inexpensive ammo:
Why? Its not like you have to find the ammo on the spot. Arrows aren't enormously cheap, people still use them. Depending on how powerful the gun is the ammo will either be perfectly balanced or not.
Eh. An iron sword can kill x amount of enemies, and the bow's ingredients, while not enormously cheap, aren't exactly hard to get either. If you make the gun too inefficient, then people won't want to pour their hard earned iron into it. You already would have to expend a gunpowder to shoot a shot, which is hardly an abundant resource.
Quick Mobile Reloads
We already have a weapon that does this: the bow. But again it depends entirely how how you personally envision guns working.
Im not sure you understand the concept of 3 seconds time in a game. Time feels slower in game combat. That much of a delay between shots already would feel like forever, especially when 3 creepers are chasing you.
Not powerful enough to kill with one shot
See above.
It seems you envision that this item should be something relatively cheap and quick to reload which requires alot of work to kill things. Thats one solution all right, but its hardly the only one.
Two shots is hardly a lot of work to kill things. A bow takes 5 shots. With the delay, the gun might slightly edge out the bow.
Personally I'd be more inclined to favour the short range, immensely powrful, takes a while to reload and aint cheap suggestions. Its got alot more in common with actual early firearms, its qualities set it apart from the bow and its a nice little dynamic that other games don't have. The cheap, quick shooter you seem to favour has been done time and time again.
Its not cheap when you have to kill a creeper for each shot (assuming ammo balls and gunpowder both get eaten per shot, instead of ammunition having Gp crafted into it), and it takes 4 seconds to kill something. It is a slow gun, especially compared to the machine-gun of a bow we already know and love in minecraft. With Diamond swords that can kill 500ish enemies in its lifetime with less then 2 seconds taken per enemy, the gun needs to have some good qualities to it. Else it amounts to a gimmick weapon.
Quote from muncher21 »
guns are'nt supposed to be a primary weapon. Even in civil war times volleys with muskets where to wear down the enemy. After the two armies marched up to one another the fighting was mainly with the muskets used as spears or clubs.
So muskets are not your only weapon.
Yea, but minecraft is a game. If the musket is something that you constantly have to put into your inventory and reload (else it just clogs your hot bar)(assuming you use the musket often), people won't want to use it. It would be like someone lighting up his place with torches (when they get updated to burn out) instead of using lanterns.
In minecraft, enemies can come from anywhere, and a good portion of them can insta kill you. Realisticly, the musket isn't that good of a tool, but can you picture actually using the gun in minecraft, when all it does is guarentee one kill, then hogs up inventory space. There are hundreds of monsters at night. It has to be a viable weapon, or it won't be used.
Responses in quotes.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
~ I've thought about the phrase 'Money is the root of all evil' and I have to disagree. Evil isn't dependant on an object. I say that want is the root of all evil.
Mod edit: Like the user said below you, read the OP mod edit. I'm not going to issue a warning for this, but don't do it again.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I aim to please ... and occasionally mentally scar. "Because it's your right as an American to butcher the English language."
This is my baby, please support her and get her into vanilla:
Not a bad Idea, but I'd much rather prefer a crossbow..
That can fit in too if ya think about it! Cross bows would just be like bow and arrow, but longer reload, but higher dmg(like 5 dmg instead of 4) and further range while this works like the DEATH SHOT
I crossbow would be EPIC! I could deal more damage, but it would shoot arrows slower.
If a consensus can be reached with people by accepting the cross-bow, I will accept. After all, swords have different tiers (wood, stone, iron, diamond), ranged weapons could also be tiered as well. Obviously for ranged weapons it wouldn't so much be a tier system as each having it's own use.
Bow and Arrows: Rapid fire, medium range, low damage.
Crossbow: Low fire, medium range, high damage.
Flintlock: Low fire, long range, high damage (with lowering damage in falloff) + slightly more expensive ammo.
@Mr. Torb:
Using the crafting panel to reload would not be overcompensation and here is why:
1) The mechanic of reloading that way is fun and works with features currently in the game.
2) A smart player can still build and load 10 flintlocks and put them into the quick bar, meaning he could get off up to 10 shots before he would need to reload. (However, with the cock and fire delay [right-click once to cock, right-click again to fire, *sssssss BOOM* then the gun fires] it would still leave a couple seconds between shots.)
@Azraile:
In fact I don't believe Notch said no guns, what he said was that he would not have a trace hit system in place that players would not be able to dodge. Our suggestions here are for the bullet to move at 40 tiles/sec which is the current speed limit in Minecraft.
xbows have been listed in detail elsewhere, but on the gun subject
I dont know if anyone suggested it, and I dont want to read 20 pages of debate
muskets or whatever the gun is called should be able to be equiped with a bayonet
made seperately the bayonet would make it as powerful as a stone sword in melee, and when using it it would take away 1 point of durability from the whole gun
bayonet would be made from two iron and would be connected to the gun via crafting table
when mining at an enemy with a musket that does not have a bayonet it would take two dura points per attack, and it would do less than a heart damage
this means that the gun would be strong in ranged but when out of ammo you swing at the opponent using a bayonet
This can help you somewhat understand where I'm coming from.
OH NO, another gun-related subject... why is this one any different? It may or may not be different from previous posts, in fact it could be an exact replica of other models but I believe that this suggestion may be different from the other ones. Contents include 3 different versions of the gun and an expensive bullet.
The Flintlock Pistol
Design:
[] [] [] []
The flintlock pistol is short ranged, capable of hitting 8-16 blocks away from the original block. Due to its short range, the pistol is fairly accurate and is capable of doing damage equivalent to an stone sword when using a simple bullet. If a barrel is added to the flintlock pistol, you get the...
Flintlock Musket
or Musket
To get this, you must first get a barrel
Design:
[] [] []
[] [] []
Combine the pistol with the barrel to create a musket, an inaccurate, somewhat long range weapon. The musket is accurate to one block the first 8 blocks, becomes accurate to a four block area the second 24 blocks (aka 32 blocks, and is inaccurate to a 9-block range the remaining 48 blocks (64 blocks total). The musket does 3 1/2 damage and uses simple bullets.
Flintlock Rifle
To get this you need a rifled barrel (curves within the barrel) and because the barrel is made of iron, only diamond can cut it.
Design = Barrel
[] [] []
[] [] []
That design can be used, or you can make a diamond knife or something to cut it. Rifled barrels are connected to the original pistol and the rifle has something new - durability... The rifle is long-ranged and accurate, capable of damaging enemy with 4 hearts of damage, should it be using complex bullets. It can fire up to 128 blocks away, losing accuracy at 64 blocks and never again. However, the rifle can only shoot 32 bullets before being considered a musket. At the time of this loss, complex bullets are rendered useless until another rifle can use them.
Ammunition
There are 2 types of ammo, simple and complex bullets. Simple bullets are used in muskets and pistols, while complex bullets are only in rifles. The design is as follows:
[] [] [] | [] []
[] [] | [] []
[] [] | [] []
Simple | Complex
Well that concludes my take on the subject. Please suggest things and give feedback.
guns are'nt supposed to be a primary weapon. Even in civil war times volleys with muskets where to wear down the enemy. After the two armies marched up to one another the fighting was mainly with the muskets used as spears or clubs.
So muskets are not your only weapon.
True, considering the facts that people didn't shoot face to face unless it was self defense of 7 feet. Swords and such will not be replaced at all for all my concerns in minecraft. My problem is striking before the enemy strikes you. Going a tad off topic. But shouldn't there be some sort of reflex shield like a buckler to protect you? I know you gotta get your hand's dirty while using a sword still, but I was hoping to save a few hearts before I return home.
I'd say, if any gun had to have an ammo system along with a crafting template, make the ammo production limited compared to Arrows, like for every 1 set of ingredients would only yield one shot, that way you would either settle for one or the other. As what a possible gun would lack in ammo, would backup in accuracy and power depending on the range. Balance :biggrin.gif:
guns are'nt supposed to be a primary weapon. Even in civil war times volleys with muskets where to wear down the enemy. After the two armies marched up to one another the fighting was mainly with the muskets used as spears or clubs.
So muskets are not your only weapon.
True, considering the facts that people didn't shoot face to face unless it was self defense of 7 feet. Swords and such will not be replaced at all for all my concerns in minecraft. My problem is striking before the enemy strikes you. Going a tad off topic. But shouldn't there be some sort of reflex shield like a buckler to protect you? I know you gotta get your hand's dirty while using a sword still, but I was hoping to save a few hearts before I return home.
I'd say, if any gun had to have an ammo system along with a crafting template, make the ammo production limited compared to Arrows, like for every 1 set of ingredients would only yield one shot, that way you would either settle for one or the other. As what a possible gun would lack in ammo, would backup in accuracy and power depending on the range. Balance :biggrin.gif:
Do you realize you posted on a 6-month old message?
Using the crafting panel to reload would not be overcompensation and here is why:
1) The mechanic of reloading that way is fun and works with features currently in the game.
2) A smart player can still build and load 10 flintlocks and put them into the quick bar, meaning he could get off up to 10 shots before he would need to reload. (However, with the cock and fire delay [right-click once to cock, right-click again to fire, *sssssss BOOM* then the gun fires] it would still leave a couple seconds between shots.)
Inventory reloading between each shot is not fun. It might be the first few times, but if you use the musket even semi-often, it would get annoying. You can fight more then 20 monsters a night. Would you like to replace the stick handle in a pickaxe every 15 blocks? Then why would you want to have to put the musket in your inventory to reload each time?
A smart player wouldn't want to clog up 10 inventory slots, just so that they don't have to stop to reload as often. They would use the machinegun bow instead >.>
There's many monsters out at night. More likely then not, you aren't going to be fighting one on one. If you have to stop between reloads, the monsters will get you.
"Well, what if you switch weapons after firing?"
There are 100's of monsters that are spawned at night. You are guaranteed to fight many monsters if your out there. If the musket is a "one or two use" gun, people won't want to spend their hard earned iron on it, nor clog up their inventory with the gunpowder, bullets, and the actual weapon slot required to kill things with it.
If you don't want it to be like my idea (two shot kill, 3 sec reload per shot), idea's can still be ironed out. Such as a 5-6 second reload per shot with a one shot kill (if you prefer a slow, but insta-kill weapon, instead of a more medium one).
A mobile reload system is the best way to go. It lacks the tedium of reloading your gun after the hundredth time that the inventory reload system owns. It allows players to shoot the gun more than 5 times a night (without being caught by those three creepers over there, or that skeleton). Its simpler.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
~ I've thought about the phrase 'Money is the root of all evil' and I have to disagree. Evil isn't dependant on an object. I say that want is the root of all evil.
> As a loading dynamic maybe holding down shift and hitting left click would
> have the "gun" graphic switch to vertical and bring up the
> reloading screen:
> Then once you've finished release shift and the gun flips back to firing
> position :biggrin.gif: It doesn't make much sense to reload something like this on the
> move anyway so I can't see the key coming into conflict.
This seems like an excellent idea.
link related, so might as well i just copy everything there to here so "guns" can be in just one thread
Hi, idk if anyone brought this up already or not but
w/e, so i think Notch should add, hey maybe he has thought of that already since he added gunpowder in the game.... lemme think.
okay,
1. The Shotgun, yanno those farmer-style single or double barrel hunting shotgun, you know what im talking about
since gunpowder are so underused, like it can only be use for making TNT, so might as well jsut make a shotgun eh?
The reason why i pick shotgun was that if I were to suggest a rifle than everyone would go sniper crazy and ****, than the bow and arrows or the crossbow the other guy suggest would be obsolete and that will be no fun. (yes i love my bow)
so Shotgun, the good and the bad just to make it sounds balanced, the Good thing is that when fired, it gives Blast-Radious, which means when a couple of mob or the whole crowd of 'em coming at you, you fire a shotgun round at em(i'll explain more about ammunition later), so when fired, the ammunition prolly flies for two or three blocks or more(up to community suggestion, how 'bout that, eh?) just to make sure everyone still keep the bow, you know what i mean.
p.s. It's for Crowd-control
ok BUT first i'll explain the Shotgun ammunition first
right now we got like a couple of underused item,
#1Gunpower
#2Gravel
#3Coal
#4Reeds
#5Cobblestone
#6Flint and Stone
#7Leather
now let's talk about shotgun rounds and no i dont want to have a lazer gun, but maybe in the future when we think of something to use crystal with, you know what that is.
______________________________________________________________________________________________
Shotgun Round
#1 basic shotgun round, lets start with what a farmer would have, eh?
we all know that a shotgun round would spread at the direction where you fire you guns, right?
cool, the gravel, it's so useless other than to produce flint or to crush that poor fellow who tries to stab your ass with his arrow, we can craft gravels into tens or twenty of Round Spherical rock shotgun pellets, maybe just eight pellets, how bout that. it won't really be that painful when being shot at coz i bet most small rocks would be pound to dust when fired.
to construct a round of basic shotguns 8+ pellets (4 stacks just like arrows)
[] [] []
[] [] []
[]
#2 basic shotgun round other than that pellets, we also have that shotgun slug, yes that one big tough little thing that can punch a man off the round, it would hurt a little bit more but it doesn't spread out like pellets does and in order to keep it from too over-powering than bow and arrows, we'll make sure that it wont fly as far as arrows and even if the slugs did travel far, it would still deal far more less damage than arrows, like-wise with the pellets mentioned above.
and to craft that slug, we could use the cobblestone
to construct a Single shotgun cobblestone slug (in the stack 4 of cause) (realism-wise, you have no idea how hard it is to carve a rock into a big round slug without the rock cracks so we will use two cobble stone because i know a common person doing so will cracks a lots of rocks)
[] [] []
[] [] []
[]
#3 iron shotgun 8+pellets and slug well duh, the 8 pellets and slug would hurt more than its stoney gravelish counterparts.
to construct them, and in other to not make it too easy just so arrows can still be in league like how those Sniper in TF2 does with their huntsman.
to construct iron shotgun 8+ pellets, players will need that smelt tools YES just to make it more tedious so ppl like me will still stick to our trusty bow and arrows, i'll explain more about the bullet smelt tools later but i'll tell you that there's two type of bullet smelt tools, and in this case we shall call the bullet smelt tool A
when constructing the 8 iron pellets (in the stack of 4)
first player would have to smelt the iron ingots into melted iron first!
then
[] [] []
[] []
[] [] [-insert bullet smelt tools A here-]
once you got your bullets, you can still keep your bullet smelt tools but it has a life bar, just like any other tools.
for a stack of 4 iron shotgun slugs, player will have to use bullet smelt tool B
[] [] []
[] []
[] [] [-insert bullet smelt tools B here-]
for okay this will sum up the bullets and all, but like wise, using gold or some other metals will be the same with how we craft iron bullets
______________________________________________________________________________________________
ok now i'll explain the Gunpowder thing
the Gunpowder will suggest how far and how hard it will fires the pellets or slugs
right now we have two srsly under-used items, the Creepers's Gunpowder and Coal
and there's two type of gunpowder, the weaker one and stronger one, and it will also affect the reload time too hur hur hur, yes it takes a really long time to load a gun just so we wont see duke nukem or some trigger-happy gordon freeman spraying bullets allover the place in Minecraft, haha you know what i mean, we all have seen in in any fps Games.
#1 the GunpowderA (yes the weak one and have a longer reload time)
yanno how all those folks back then having their little bag of iron pellets and a leather flask of gunpowder? yeah exactly that. but before i actually explain how to craft the gunpowder, i'll first explain how to make the bag of it first
to make a common gunpowder leather bag first we need to kill some cows duh yadda yadda and since we dont have a leather icon to the right panel there, im gonan label leather as [L]
[] [] []
[] [] [L]
[] [L] [L]
and only after we craf that leather gunpowder bag than only we can fill it with gunpowder, and yes that's exactly how you craft a bag of gunpowder, i'll label a leather bag as [LB]
[] [] []
[]
[] [LB] []
easy!,
doing so will craft you shots in a stack of 4 and OH, once you fire all out, you can still keep the leather bag but come and think about it, i dont know what do you guys think, should we make it more tedious just so we could hunt those loud moo-mooing cow outside? means we'll have to make the leather bags again lol. but bleh
#2 The GunpowderB, yes the strong one
constructing these will be even harder and yes it creates more punch and also affect the reloading time.
to construct one Gunpowder B we will still need that leather bullets bags that i mentioned above hahahahaha
[]
[]
[] [Paper] []
YES im talking about Paper Gunpowder cartridge! and it will also be crafted into a stack of 4
and in order to be able to USE it, you need the Leather bullet bags otherwise, if will keep on falling out or destroy under those item weight in your inventory, yes it is very fragile coz ... it's PAPER!!! oh btw about the rarity of reeds, ask notch about it.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
okay now the Bullet Smelt Tools
there's two type to create two different type of bullets, the pellets and the slugs and it's a tools so it has a life bar jsut like any other tools!
The bullet smelt tools can be made from either Stone, Iron, Diamonds, surely not Gold LOL but if want sure why not.
ok #1 the Bullet Smelt tools for Pellets round you would
[] [] []
[]
[]
#2 the BST for Slug rounds you would
[] [] []
[]
come and think about it, we could uses these bullet smelt tools for creating iron arrow heads so we dont have to stick to flints anymore yay!
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
Ok finally the Construction of the SHOTGUN itself, oh btw it's a tool so it will have a lifebar just like any other tool like for example, YOU F*king SWORDD!!
you would need Iron, and Wood, duh
and to construct a Single-barrel Shotgun which one fire single shot at a time
[]
and to construct a double-barrel Shotgun which you can fire twice but the downside, a time longer than the singlebarrel shotgun's Reload time. i'll explain more about the firing stuff and time stuff yanno, like later.
[]
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
Firing Mechanism
so like what i mentioned earlier, there's many factors revolving the Shotgun itself
there's three i mean four!
#1Firing Range and Radious
#2Firing Damage
#3Reload Time
#4requiarement to Fire the gun
#1 Firing Range and Radious
this will be effect by what bullets and gunpowder you use
a. Pellets + GunpowderA
the range would be 3 to 5 or less, but the pellets may still flies but it deals little to no damage coz imargine yourself, someone throw a small tiny rock at ya, what do you feel. and Each Pellets deals a small damage
The radious of it will be at point black, all 8 pellets will concentrate at one point, but the further it goes, the more it will spread and everytime you fires it will spread in random way
REMEMBER, bullets will be EFFECTED by GRAVITY!
b. Slugs + Gunpowder A
pretty much just as straight forward, it will fires like arrows, but it will deal more damage than arrows at point blank and will deal little to no damage after a distance, let's take 8 blocks away, it will feels like someone throws a rock or a snowball at you.
c. Pellets + Gunpowder B
Just like A but it will deal more damage and flies further
d. Slugs + Gunpowder B
Just like B but more distance, more power
#2Firing Damage
these will depends on what bullets you use
tier 1 bullets which is made of stones or gravels will have weaker damage than a common arrows
tier 2 bullets whiich is made of irons however will deal more damage than arrows however the damage will fade when the bullets travel thru a distance.
Bullets may be made from other material as well such as gold and diamond and who knows, maybe Bones too.
#3Reload Time
tier1 gunpowder will take a long time to laod, let's say for example 1 second to load,
tier2 which is a paper cartridge which is more compact than t1 gunpowder will be easier to reload so it will prolly take half a second to load the guns.
the single-barrel and the double-barrels, do the maths it's quite easy
single-barrel well, you only need to load one barrel but the double barrel, you'll have to load both so go figure!
just in case you're too lazy or stupid which i hope not, here, lemme do the maths for you
a single-barrel gun + T1 gunpowder = 1 second reload times
a single-barrel gun + T2 gunpoweder = half a second reload times
a double-barrel gun + T1 gunpowder = 2 second reload times/1 second to load one of the barrels
a double-barrel gun + T2 gunpowder = 1 second reload times/half a second to load one of the barrels.
#4requiarement to Fire the gun
and in order to fire the gun, you will have to equip yourself with the gun, DUH
have a loads of the bullets on you just like how we have stacks of arrows in our inventory and also last and no least
you need to have a stack of gunpowder on you!,
when firing the gun, the gun will lost some of it's health according to what material it is made from (lol stone shotgun, F*CK dejavu i dreamt about writing this last night)
you will also experience lost of bullets and gunpowder but unlike arrow,s you cant retrieve them once fired.
[edit] oh i forgot
you will need a flint and stone to fire the Gunpowders, YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS
or we could just use the Line from spider as a burning flint like those badass in the shakespears ,elizabethan and victorian era.
[]
[] [Lines] []
[] [Lines] []
and it will eats away the lifebar of the burning line overtime.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
So that's basically it!
I have explained the Shotguns,
so you guys go figured,
feel free to put in ideas too
but srsly, lazer gun, wtf mang, i'll let someone figure that out inb4 redstone, diamonds and obsidians.
p.s. did i mention i dont want to see a machine guns in Minecraft? i still want to use my diamond swords.
Guys this is simple:
Flintlock:
Some don't like my crafting recipe, but as it stands it can be done on a 3x3 crafting grid with materials already in game.
[] [] []
Cartridge:
Some folks didn't like my "musket bullets idea and were suggesting a paper cartridge. Some of the recipe's for that were ridiculous in my opinion requiring way too much paper in an effort to make the recipe resemble the shape of the thing. Here is my proposed recipe:
[] [] []
[] [] []
Makes 4 cartridges.
Game mechanics of flintlock:
1) Put "Unloaded Flintlock" to 2x2 crafting pane.
2) Put "Paper cartridges" to 2x2 crafting pane next to "Unloaded Flintlock"
3)Click craft and drag the newly made "Loaded Flintlock" to quick bar.
3)Select "Loaded Flintlock" and right-click once to "cock."
4)Aim, and right-click once more to fire.
5)*ssssSSSSSS...BOOM* sound plays and projectile fires at rate of 40 tiles/sec in a flat trajectory towards aim point. Smoke blocks and a flash also spawn.
Projectile should have a range of 70 tiles optimal (full damage) +20 tiles falloff (damage decreases until 0 at Optimal + Falloff).
There is such thing as balancing. Then there's over compensation. Minecraft is a game where enemies can kill you in less than 3 seconds, and silent, instant kill monsters spawn just as often as the weaker ones. Its also a game you can come equiped with a machinegun-like bow, and a sword that kills in two hits. Having to go into your inventory screen to reload just punishes players for wanting to use a gun by making them entirely worthless. There are less extreme ways to balance the weapon to other things.
Also, bear in mind that in most situations you aren't fighting just one enemy
To truely achieve balance, the weapon needs:
Inexpensive ammo: Either made with cobblestone and paper, or a new, coal-common material, preferably called lead. You have to hunt creepers to shoot your gun anyways, and iron is overused already.
A reload that you can actually move around with while preforming: A simple 2-3 second delay, where the gun get hidden from you screen (to signify reloading) is ideal. Having to stop while reloading makes it useless for a weapon that you use outside. It would only be feasable for shooting at stuff from inside the safety of a building.
Why? When monsters can kill you in less time then it takes to actually reload your gun, it becomes an issue if you cant kite them. Not only that, but 1/4 of the time, your fighting a ranged monster, and more likely then not, your fighting more then one. Even if you can manage to get one, the other would have gotten to you by the time you get your gun reloaded for the third shot.
To take two shots to kill: Otherwise, it becomes too easy to sit back and snipe monsters from your roof.
Without the gun being in this balance sweet-spot, it will easily sink into being UP or OP. Of course, I might be wrong, but if I am, im not far off with my concept of balance.
So muskets are not your only weapon.
Bullets crafted like this.
and the gun i dont now how to get it. Maybe in pieces.
Scope
Body
[] [] []
Responses in quotes.
Mod edit: Like the user said below you, read the OP mod edit. I'm not going to issue a warning for this, but don't do it again.
"Because it's your right as an American to butcher the English language."
This is my baby, please support her and get her into vanilla:
Mr.mod I will save you the trouble.
Read the mod post on the first page.
I crossbow would be EPIC! I could deal more damage, but it would shoot arrows slower.
Bow and Arrows: Rapid fire, medium range, low damage.
Crossbow: Low fire, medium range, high damage.
Flintlock: Low fire, long range, high damage (with lowering damage in falloff) + slightly more expensive ammo.
@Mr. Torb:
Using the crafting panel to reload would not be overcompensation and here is why:
1) The mechanic of reloading that way is fun and works with features currently in the game.
2) A smart player can still build and load 10 flintlocks and put them into the quick bar, meaning he could get off up to 10 shots before he would need to reload. (However, with the cock and fire delay [right-click once to cock, right-click again to fire, *sssssss BOOM* then the gun fires] it would still leave a couple seconds between shots.)
@Azraile:
In fact I don't believe Notch said no guns, what he said was that he would not have a trace hit system in place that players would not be able to dodge. Our suggestions here are for the bullet to move at 40 tiles/sec which is the current speed limit in Minecraft.
I dont know if anyone suggested it, and I dont want to read 20 pages of debate
muskets or whatever the gun is called should be able to be equiped with a bayonet
made seperately the bayonet would make it as powerful as a stone sword in melee, and when using it it would take away 1 point of durability from the whole gun
bayonet would be made from two iron and would be connected to the gun via crafting table
when mining at an enemy with a musket that does not have a bayonet it would take two dura points per attack, and it would do less than a heart damage
this means that the gun would be strong in ranged but when out of ammo you swing at the opponent using a bayonet
OH NO, another gun-related subject... why is this one any different? It may or may not be different from previous posts, in fact it could be an exact replica of other models but I believe that this suggestion may be different from the other ones. Contents include 3 different versions of the gun and an expensive bullet.
The Flintlock Pistol
Design:
[]
The flintlock pistol is short ranged, capable of hitting 8-16 blocks away from the original block. Due to its short range, the pistol is fairly accurate and is capable of doing damage equivalent to an stone sword when using a simple bullet. If a barrel is added to the flintlock pistol, you get the...
Flintlock Musket
or Musket
To get this, you must first get a barrel
Design:
[] [] []
[] [] []
Combine the pistol with the barrel to create a musket, an inaccurate, somewhat long range weapon. The musket is accurate to one block the first 8 blocks, becomes accurate to a four block area the second 24 blocks (aka 32 blocks, and is inaccurate to a 9-block range the remaining 48 blocks (64 blocks total). The musket does 3 1/2 damage and uses simple bullets.
Flintlock Rifle
To get this you need a rifled barrel (curves within the barrel) and because the barrel is made of iron, only diamond can cut it.
Design
[] [] []
[] [] []
That design can be used, or you can make a diamond knife or something to cut it. Rifled barrels are connected to the original pistol and the rifle has something new - durability... The rifle is long-ranged and accurate, capable of damaging enemy with 4 hearts of damage, should it be using complex bullets. It can fire up to 128 blocks away, losing accuracy at 64 blocks and never again. However, the rifle can only shoot 32 bullets before being considered a musket. At the time of this loss, complex bullets are rendered useless until another rifle can use them.
Ammunition
There are 2 types of ammo, simple and complex bullets. Simple bullets are used in muskets and pistols, while complex bullets are only in rifles. The design is as follows:
[] [] [] | []
[]
[]
Simple | Complex
Well that concludes my take on the subject. Please suggest things and give feedback.
P.S. Here is my original thread, http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=99324
True, considering the facts that people didn't shoot face to face unless it was self defense of 7 feet. Swords and such will not be replaced at all for all my concerns in minecraft. My problem is striking before the enemy strikes you. Going a tad off topic. But shouldn't there be some sort of reflex shield like a buckler to protect you? I know you gotta get your hand's dirty while using a sword still, but I was hoping to save a few hearts before I return home.
I'd say, if any gun had to have an ammo system along with a crafting template, make the ammo production limited compared to Arrows, like for every 1 set of ingredients would only yield one shot, that way you would either settle for one or the other. As what a possible gun would lack in ammo, would backup in accuracy and power depending on the range. Balance :biggrin.gif:
Do you realize you posted on a 6-month old message?
Inventory reloading between each shot is not fun. It might be the first few times, but if you use the musket even semi-often, it would get annoying. You can fight more then 20 monsters a night. Would you like to replace the stick handle in a pickaxe every 15 blocks? Then why would you want to have to put the musket in your inventory to reload each time?
A smart player wouldn't want to clog up 10 inventory slots, just so that they don't have to stop to reload as often. They would use the machinegun bow instead >.>
There's many monsters out at night. More likely then not, you aren't going to be fighting one on one. If you have to stop between reloads, the monsters will get you.
"Well, what if you switch weapons after firing?"
There are 100's of monsters that are spawned at night. You are guaranteed to fight many monsters if your out there. If the musket is a "one or two use" gun, people won't want to spend their hard earned iron on it, nor clog up their inventory with the gunpowder, bullets, and the actual weapon slot required to kill things with it.
If you don't want it to be like my idea (two shot kill, 3 sec reload per shot), idea's can still be ironed out. Such as a 5-6 second reload per shot with a one shot kill (if you prefer a slow, but insta-kill weapon, instead of a more medium one).
A mobile reload system is the best way to go. It lacks the tedium of reloading your gun after the hundredth time that the inventory reload system owns. It allows players to shoot the gun more than 5 times a night (without being caught by those three creepers over there, or that skeleton). Its simpler.
OT: Wikipedia says rifles fire up to 250 yards away so should Minecraft rifles do so or do as I wrote: 128 blocks away?