Here is my idea:
have guns take a pieco og diamond or something to make it.
also, it would be nice if the bullets were:
[]
[]
and you get say, 2 bullets?
But mainly, I think the gun should push the player back 1 block and/or deal the player 1/2 heart damage. this way the gun also has an effect on the player, it doesn't just take a few seconds to work again, it hurts you so you are forced to make your shots count. this plus needing more items for the bullet force anybody to save resources and again, think your shot through.
[] [] [] < iron block
[] [] []
Creates one hand cannon.
Crafting a hand cannon with a pile of gunpowder creates a hand cannon with a gunpowder symbol in the corner.
Crafting the powder-loaded hand cannon with a stone bullet will create a hand cannon with a powder symbol and a bullet symbol in the corner. This weapon may be fired with minimal drop but very poor accuracy, it does 5 or 10 damage and returns to its unloaded state.
This means that unless you make more than one hand cannon it is necessary to open your inventory and reload the weapon after each shot.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Well, after enjoying Minecraft for a long time I finally broke down and contributed back: exactly one adventure map. TRY IT NOW! YAY! Fall of Kingdoms
Ehrm.... be more elaborate, and look up the revisions done to the other two suggestions so you can base your ideas off of that because so far, these just don't have much weight behind them
I hate the idea of guns... It's transforms the cool "medieval" game into an FPS... Like seeing people holding guns while we play in SMP, and... Are we playing the sandbox game Minecraft or any random FPS?
And Notch has said in his twitter:
No guns in Minecraft!
Probably already been said but I think the gun should fire cartridges kind of like this = paper
[] []
which makes four shots.
Each shot can one hit kill an enemy but you have to re-load the gun which takes time and there's a twenty second wait from when you craft the reloaded gun to when you can exit the crafting screen (similar to how a forge/smelter works). It would also set the item drop rate to 0 so no easy string/gunpowder farming = barrel
barrel =
[] [] []
[] [] []
The gun assembly itself would be [] []
for a pistol and = pistol
[] [] []
[]
for a rifle
The pistol is less accurate, does less damage (a little less then diamond sword)and shorter range but takes less time to reload, can be used more times (20-30) and doesn't encumber movement.
The rifle is more accurate, one hit KO, longer range but but fewer uses (20 max) longer to reload (30 second wait on crafting screen) and slows you down to 3/4 normal movement speed and smaller jump
After reading 2 pages of fairly good argument, and then reading 9 more pages of arguments (and drivel) on both sides I don't think I can agree with, I've decided to make my statement.
1) The musket/arqebus/whatever you want to call it, is a good idea, is different from the bow and arrows, and most importantly would be fun.
-It is different in that the musket is long range/high damage/low rate of fire versus medium range/low damage/high rate of fire for the Bow.
2)The OP has made plenty of concessions (more than he should) to the anti-gun crowd for it to fit into the game.
-5 second delay before shooting is too long. 1-2 seconds MAX, the same delay between a creepers ssssssssssss, and explosion is plenty (exactly that delay would be ideal in fact.
-The idea of only carrying 2 muskets in the quick bar is stupid and an unnecessary concession.
There is no point to this limitation and regardless of how bad you try and nerf yourself the anti-gun crowd won't accept anything. If I take the time to build and load 10 muskets and stick them all in the quickbar, then more power to me. I still might miss with all those shots, and when i do fire them all, I will have to take each musket individually to the crafting window and load them all again.
Whether I fire 10 shots in a row or 1, the loading time for each gun is the same. So if I wait until I have to load 10 at a time, I just significantly increased my delay before my next set of salvos. Further, a fun town defense emergent game play mechanic could develop from this whereby 1 player is the shooter, and the other player is the loader. I could fire my musket, press q to toss it to the loader, swap to my next musket, fire, lather, rinse, repeat.
In real life, the hussars did something like this, except on horseback with lances and pistols. They would load up on pistols and lances, ride out to enemy lines, fire their pistols, throw their lances, and then return behind their own lines and load up on fresh pistols and turn over the spent ones. The whole operation was supported by people with wagons full of powder and shot, who would constantly load pistols and pass them to the hussars to use on the front. No one here can honestly argue that doing something like this in a large battle with large numbers of players fighting over a town or patch of land would not be an extreme amount of fun. And ultimately what Notch considers when he adds to Minecraft is whether or not something he adds will amount to more fun.
3) If I read the statement correctly, Notch has said that he would not do any trace-hit weapons in game, someone suggested that this meant no guns, it most certainly does not.
-A bullet moving at 40m/s is plenty. It is faster than an arrow, does more damage than an arrow, and follows a more or less straight path whereas the arrow is parabolic. Also the bullet should have a good deal more range than the arrow, with a decent amount of precision at the "optimal" range. After a certain amount of range the bullet does less damage and after a certain bit more range the bullet disappears.
The max range for an arrow is 55 tiles (according to the OP). The OP suggested that guns have a range of about 70ish tiles. I say make 70 tiles and below the "optimal" range, where the gun does full damage, and with the delayed shot, make 10 tiles and closer do some bonus damage (since this is likely the last shot you will get off before going to melee, as well as being a difficult shot in itself). At 40 tiles, it will take a full second (longer than most people think it is), for the shot to land, plenty of time for someone who hasn't been drinking (and most who have) to dodge ever so slightly if they are paying attention. At 80 tiles distance, the shot will take 2 full seconds to reach it's target, plenty of time for "skill" to allow someone to find cover or dodge the shot. Also, at 80 tiles distance, the bullet would be out of optimal range and would start doing less and less damage over whatever its falloff distance is (say 20 tiles for sake of argument). Meaning that the maximum range for a musket would be 89 tiles, with a player at 90 tiles distance not being hit (or being hit for 0 damage if you want to be technical).
3) The musket should not be weak. It is too expensive to operate for it to be weak and inaccurate (but not 100% trace hit accurate mind you).
-It should do a minimum of 5 hearts damage to an unarmored opponent, and at least 3 hearts damage and 1-1.5 armor damage. The travel time as well as the slight (no more than 1-2 seconds MAX!) firing delay more than makes up for this. I foresee melee players charging down field, with several cooked pork in their quick bar, getting hit and "tanking" the damage by eating the meat, before getting into range and chopping up the ranged players. The ranged players would not be able to use their multiple musket trick while also carrying lots of meat in their quick bar.
To add to the thread I will also quote my own original post that I made before I noticed this epic gun thread:
While reading one users post about trying to colonize hell, as well as taking in the idea of Notch adding future "mega-mobs" such as giants and dragons, I thought it might be a good idea to have some fairly expensive craftable firepower available to those with the resources for them.
First the musket:
[] [] []
And if feel like indulging a little -- the Sharpshooter Musket:
OR
[] [] []
[] [telescope] []
[] [musket] []
See my post here for information on the telescope (which I recreated on the recipe for simplicities sake).
And the Musket Balls:
[] [] []
[] [] []
Which would produce 2-4 musket balls (really bullets more or less but lets let that slide) for use in the musket.
The idea of the musket, is to make a ranged weapon more useful for longer ranged attacks, but also limited in it's own way. The musket would be fairly low rate of fire (at least half to a quarter the ROF of Bow+Arrows) but a longer range and twice the damage of the arrows. The ammunition would also be expensive as well. This way, the Bow still has its place (short range, rapid fire) but the musket has its own niche (long range, high damage).
Now the Cannon:
First you craft the barrel: [] []
Then you craft a mine cart, and on the crafting bench you make:
[] [] []
[] [barrel] []
[] [mine cart] []
This gives you the cannon, which has to be placed somewhere (maybe you could put it on tracks if you wanted!) and basically remains stationary (unless its on tracks). You right click to "get on" the cannon, and left click to fire it. It could have say, a 160 degree traverse and up to 55 degree pitch for the barrel. The cannon balls would have a parabolic trajectory (like the arrows) and would have a small (half the size or less of a creeper) explosion on impact.
Cannonball Recipe (makes 2 cannon balls):
For obvious reasons the cannon balls would be fairly expensive to make, keeping them prohibitively expensive from being overused. (Prepare to mine lots of iron [and kill lots of creepers] if you want to stock your nether-colony with muskets, cannons, bullets, and cannonballs [It would take 25 and 2 in order to make 1 musket, 2-4 bullets, 1 cannon, and 2 cannonballs. While 2 doesn't seem like much, that is only for 1 set of bullets and cannonballs, you're going to want more than 4 and 2 shots respectively, this is where will start being hard to come by.])
I imagine them being used for base defense (against mega-mobs or in PVP) or maybe on a ship (bigger version of a boat that players could build and walk around on). While they may seem unneeded now, imagine in the future with large oceans and sea monsters (sharks, whales, kraken [{giant squid/octopus} awesome mega mob that could destroy aforementioned ship, please make this!]).
In short, guns need to be added, whether we call them guns or muskets or arqebus's. They need to be fair, they need to have their own drawbacks, but they also need to be worth using. I believe that most people are either in favor of firearms, or don't really mind them. I also believe that most of the people who are anti-firearm are so because they fear change and won't actually mind them when they are implemented (which I believe they will be in a reasonable and perfectly balanced way).
Don't worry man, no one wants to make a firearm the end all be all choice in the game. We just think they're cool and would make a nice OPTION. The beautiful thing about Minecraft is that you can play it how you want to. There is room for guns in Minecraft just as there is room for people who would refuse to use them.
We have 1 ranged weapon (the bow), we simply want an alternative ranged weapon that has it's own time and place, that does something better than the bow (range and damage) while also being worse in other ways (rate of fire/ease of use/expense).
Ehrm.... be more elaborate, and look up the revisions done to the other two suggestions so you can base your ideas off of that because so far, these just don't have much weight behind them
My attempt was to go for simplicity, is there anything in particular you disagree with?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Well, after enjoying Minecraft for a long time I finally broke down and contributed back: exactly one adventure map. TRY IT NOW! YAY! Fall of Kingdoms
Cool hand cannon man, I think it may be too simple though. I think what would be desirable here would be a fairly hard to assemble weapon that would be crafted after the player has plenty of iron and gunpowder. Take a look at this recipe:
[] [] []
Also, I would like to modify my musket ball recipe from earlier to one that I think is better and helps to balance it more:
[] []
[] []
Which would give you 4 musket "bullets", which would essentially mean that each shot would cost you 1 iron ingot, which I think is pretty balanced.
Also, I should mention that a well trained rifleman could fire off around 3 shots a minute during the Civil War. Which means about 20 seconds between shots. I don't know if we should go that far in Minecraft, but I figured I would state the facts regardless. I think a better scenario would be to:
1)put the "unloaded musket" in the 2x2 crafting panel,
2)put the bullet in the crafting panel,
3)click craft,
4)get the "loaded musket" from the crafting panel and put it in the quick bar
5)Left click once to "cock" the rifle. (a 1-1.5 second delay)
6)Left click again to fire (sssssssss BOOM [another 1-1.5 second delay between trigger and effect])
I used the stopwatch on my phone to do some calculating. Factoring in how long it would take an average player (myself) to fumble around with the inventory while trying to be fast, follow all the steps, with the 2 artificial 1.5 delays, I figure it would take just over 8 seconds to get off a shot with the musket, and that is if you just fired as soon as the game let you. It would take longer if you actually took some time to aim your shot. In that amount of time, a good player could fire about 40 arrows (at 5 arrows a second) which would do a total of 80 damage if they all hit, and that player could strike from a distance of 55 tiles away.
Even if the musket player had 10 loaded muskets in his quick bar, it would still take that player between 2 and 3 seconds to fire each shot with the cocking delay and the firing delay (time for 15 more arrows and 30 more damage), and that's if they fired as fast as they could taking no time to aim. With the smoke emitted from each shot the musket player would also have trouble seeing his target as well if he didn't relocate. Even if the musket does 5 hearts damage to an unarmored target (or even an armored one), it would still take a minimum of 4-6 seconds to fire enough to take down a target. In the 3 seconds between the shots, a decent player with cooked pork in his quick bar could heal 4 out of 5 damage and keep coming. A player up close with a diamond sword can kill in 2 swipes, which would take far less time than it would to fire a single musket shot (not to mention you might miss - remember 40m/s speed for the bullet). It seems plenty balanced to me in that regard, also it seems the musket would be more of a defensive weapon where the bow and arrows could be offensive or defensive.
So, exactly how modable is Minecraft? Can it be modified by someone to include the musket as I have described it above? If so can we make a multiplayer server running the Musket Mod and test it out?
I would invite anyone pro or anti-gun to come on the server and see for themselves exactly what effects something like described would have on the gameplay.
I think the arquebus should have a shorter range than the bow. The shot would be inaccurate and weak at long distances. I really just think the firearm needs to be a shorter range weapon that can deal heavy damage. As compared to the bow...
- Much slower rate of fire
- Less range
- More expensive
- Can't be used while standing in the rain
- Very powerful
I fail to see how it would make Minecraft a first person shooter. A game isn't an FPS just because there are firearms and it's in the first person view. A single weapon you can use is a firearm, it doesn't change what the game is. Anyway, you won't be running and gunning with something like this...
The short range extreme damage thing would be better suited to the musket pistol concept. The Bow and Arrows already dominate the field at 55 tiles and closer. Only they fire 5 arrows a second (300 shots per minute - A machine gun if there ever was one). The musket needs to do something different, it needs to do more damage than an arrow, and it needs to have longer range that follows a flatter trajectory instead of a parabolic. It also needs to be fairly precise at up to 70 tiles range. Getting a little less accurate beyond 70 until it reaches the max falloff. Using a short range slow loading weapon that is inaccurate would just be a crappier, more expensive bow. Even if it did more damage, I could circle strafe and pelt you with arrows until you died before you ever got off a second shot, not to mention stay outside the range of your weapon while still hitting you with mine. People who think Minecraft would magically become a "shooter" because there's a craftable musket sure don't seem to notice the "Mac-10 and Arrows" currently in the game.
The musket should be a long range, fairly precise, high damage weapon with a low rate of fire (minimum 5 hearts to an armored target, but 6 would be better [7-8 to an unarmored]). It should kill in 2 shots (nothing should insta-kill) if the target does not heal. The Bow and Arrows already have the medium to short range covered, and much better than anything else we could come up with. The key is to have the musket in a different niche. It needs to do it's own thing, for use in it's own specific situation, rather than do something that something else already does better.
I think long range, high damage, with the need to reload after each shot and a minimum 2-3 seconds between shots if you're smart enough to bring multiple muskets is plenty to balance it with the existing weapons, fit it into the world of Minecraft, while still being useful and expensive without being stupidly expensive.
I've seen a lot of people who want a gun so badly they would accept a totally useless waste of expensive resources that fired diamond bullets once every 20 seconds with horrible precision at point blank range while breaking after 10 shots and being useless in rainy weather. And still the anti-gun crowd screams "NO! IT WOULD BREAK THE GAME! MINECRAFT ISN'T A SHOOTER!" However the "Mac-10 and Arrows" (which has a much high DPS [Damage per second not Damage per shot]) is perfectly fine by them and definitely doesn't break the game or make it a shooter in their mind. The logic of that thought process escapes me. These same people will probably also be the ones who will be circle strafing with their "Mac-10 and Arrows" the moment PVP comes out (which is fine by me you play how you want I won't stop you but I expect the same).
I say, make the gun good, moderately expensive, with a different usage from the Bow (Long Range, Precise [not perfectly], High Damage, Low Rate of Fire) that could be used opposite the Bow (Medium-Short Range, Parabolic, Low Damage, High Rate of Fire)
I don't think it should be inaccurate. I'd give it a perfectly flat trajectory just to keep things simple. I just mean that it's shorter range would make sense with the shot's considerable loss of accuracy and range at distance. At long range, an arquebus shot would be nearly useless, so it's not a stretch to just limit the true range to within the actual effective range you might assume for the weapon.
Maybe it's because I play with the smallest draw distance. When I play, I can't even see anything past the range of the bow. I guess the arquebus with a greater range could be useful for other people. It might make fighting large bosses very easy though. I can hit a skeleton from 40-50 blocks away with the bow. If it were a dragon or a giant, hitting it would be much, much easier. Switching to the arquebus, you could hit the dragon or giant with unerring accuracy* from an even greater distance with 5 times the killing power. I've always thought of the arquebus as something you wouldn't always have with you, but something you'd go get from your chest during an emergency. Like you're under siege from pigmen or attacked by a dragon. Perhaps if you planned on a dangerous mission you'd take it. Something mainly for fighting more powerful mobs coming in the future. However, you don't want to make the arquebus a too powerful weapon for fighting dragons and giants. With a long range arquebus, massive mobs that could take a lot of damage wouldn't be as threatening.
One thing I like about a primitive firearm is I could use gunpowder. I don't see much of a use for TNT but I still get excited about collecting gunpowder since it's not really easy to get. A firearm would give me something to do with my gunpowder.
I'd like a 10 second automatic reload time and 5-7 arrow hits worth of damage for each shot. Range isn't so important to me either way but I worry it would make boss battles too easy. The cost of it is actually quite subjective too. depending on how much supplies you usually collect.
*Because judging the angle at which you loose your arrow would be unnecessary.
Ya, I see what your saying there, but the only problem I have with it is that short ranged is already done better by the bow. It may not do as much damage in a shot, but the bow can pump out 40 shots in the time it takes to load the musket. I doubt it would make any mob too easy, which is subjective to the individual, but I'm really more concerned with PVP and the elements that it entails.
The long ranged single shot musket is no threat to the medium ranged "Mac-10 and Arrows" trust me, it could do 1 damage an arrow and still murder everything in sight with its rate of fire.
MOD EDIT: This is not a contribution to the discussion. Don't do that again.
And please read the moderator notice in the OP of the thread, as well as the sticky for rules specific to the suggestions section.
When Napoleon captured Vilnius on the 28th of June, 1812, he lay his sword down upon his map and said that the campaign would end there. That he would finish off Russia in 1813. Did that happen?
People change their minds sometimes. Notch is a people, thus he may change his mind.
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What?
Same here man, same here
have guns take a pieco og diamond or something to make it.
also, it would be nice if the bullets were:
[]
[]
and you get say, 2 bullets?
But mainly, I think the gun should push the player back 1 block and/or deal the player 1/2 heart damage. this way the gun also has an effect on the player, it doesn't just take a few seconds to work again, it hurts you so you are forced to make your shots count. this plus needing more items for the bullet force anybody to save resources and again, think your shot through.
[] [] []
Creates one hand cannon.
Crafting a hand cannon with a pile of gunpowder creates a hand cannon with a gunpowder symbol in the corner.
Crafting the powder-loaded hand cannon with a stone bullet will create a hand cannon with a powder symbol and a bullet symbol in the corner. This weapon may be fired with minimal drop but very poor accuracy, it does 5 or 10 damage and returns to its unloaded state.
This means that unless you make more than one hand cannon it is necessary to open your inventory and reload the weapon after each shot.
Ehrm.... be more elaborate, and look up the revisions done to the other two suggestions so you can base your ideas off of that because so far, these just don't have much weight behind them
And Notch has said in his twitter:
No guns in Minecraft!
[]
which makes four shots.
Each shot can one hit kill an enemy but you have to re-load the gun which takes time and there's a twenty second wait from when you craft the reloaded gun to when you can exit the crafting screen (similar to how a forge/smelter works). It would also set the item drop rate to 0 so no easy string/gunpowder farming
barrel =
[] [] []
[] [] []
The gun assembly itself would be
for a pistol and
[] [] []
[]
for a rifle
The pistol is less accurate, does less damage (a little less then diamond sword)and shorter range but takes less time to reload, can be used more times (20-30) and doesn't encumber movement.
The rifle is more accurate, one hit KO, longer range but but fewer uses (20 max) longer to reload (30 second wait on crafting screen) and slows you down to 3/4 normal movement speed and smaller jump
1) The musket/arqebus/whatever you want to call it, is a good idea, is different from the bow and arrows, and most importantly would be fun.
-It is different in that the musket is long range/high damage/low rate of fire versus medium range/low damage/high rate of fire for the Bow.
2)The OP has made plenty of concessions (more than he should) to the anti-gun crowd for it to fit into the game.
-5 second delay before shooting is too long. 1-2 seconds MAX, the same delay between a creepers ssssssssssss, and explosion is plenty (exactly that delay would be ideal in fact.
-The idea of only carrying 2 muskets in the quick bar is stupid and an unnecessary concession.
There is no point to this limitation and regardless of how bad you try and nerf yourself the anti-gun crowd won't accept anything. If I take the time to build and load 10 muskets and stick them all in the quickbar, then more power to me. I still might miss with all those shots, and when i do fire them all, I will have to take each musket individually to the crafting window and load them all again.
Whether I fire 10 shots in a row or 1, the loading time for each gun is the same. So if I wait until I have to load 10 at a time, I just significantly increased my delay before my next set of salvos. Further, a fun town defense emergent game play mechanic could develop from this whereby 1 player is the shooter, and the other player is the loader. I could fire my musket, press q to toss it to the loader, swap to my next musket, fire, lather, rinse, repeat.
In real life, the hussars did something like this, except on horseback with lances and pistols. They would load up on pistols and lances, ride out to enemy lines, fire their pistols, throw their lances, and then return behind their own lines and load up on fresh pistols and turn over the spent ones. The whole operation was supported by people with wagons full of powder and shot, who would constantly load pistols and pass them to the hussars to use on the front. No one here can honestly argue that doing something like this in a large battle with large numbers of players fighting over a town or patch of land would not be an extreme amount of fun. And ultimately what Notch considers when he adds to Minecraft is whether or not something he adds will amount to more fun.
3) If I read the statement correctly, Notch has said that he would not do any trace-hit weapons in game, someone suggested that this meant no guns, it most certainly does not.
-A bullet moving at 40m/s is plenty. It is faster than an arrow, does more damage than an arrow, and follows a more or less straight path whereas the arrow is parabolic. Also the bullet should have a good deal more range than the arrow, with a decent amount of precision at the "optimal" range. After a certain amount of range the bullet does less damage and after a certain bit more range the bullet disappears.
The max range for an arrow is 55 tiles (according to the OP). The OP suggested that guns have a range of about 70ish tiles. I say make 70 tiles and below the "optimal" range, where the gun does full damage, and with the delayed shot, make 10 tiles and closer do some bonus damage (since this is likely the last shot you will get off before going to melee, as well as being a difficult shot in itself). At 40 tiles, it will take a full second (longer than most people think it is), for the shot to land, plenty of time for someone who hasn't been drinking (and most who have) to dodge ever so slightly if they are paying attention. At 80 tiles distance, the shot will take 2 full seconds to reach it's target, plenty of time for "skill" to allow someone to find cover or dodge the shot. Also, at 80 tiles distance, the bullet would be out of optimal range and would start doing less and less damage over whatever its falloff distance is (say 20 tiles for sake of argument). Meaning that the maximum range for a musket would be 89 tiles, with a player at 90 tiles distance not being hit (or being hit for 0 damage if you want to be technical).
3) The musket should not be weak. It is too expensive to operate for it to be weak and inaccurate (but not 100% trace hit accurate mind you).
-It should do a minimum of 5 hearts damage to an unarmored opponent, and at least 3 hearts damage and 1-1.5 armor damage. The travel time as well as the slight (no more than 1-2 seconds MAX!) firing delay more than makes up for this. I foresee melee players charging down field, with several cooked pork in their quick bar, getting hit and "tanking" the damage by eating the meat, before getting into range and chopping up the ranged players. The ranged players would not be able to use their multiple musket trick while also carrying lots of meat in their quick bar.
To add to the thread I will also quote my own original post that I made before I noticed this epic gun thread:
In short, guns need to be added, whether we call them guns or muskets or arqebus's. They need to be fair, they need to have their own drawbacks, but they also need to be worth using. I believe that most people are either in favor of firearms, or don't really mind them. I also believe that most of the people who are anti-firearm are so because they fear change and won't actually mind them when they are implemented (which I believe they will be in a reasonable and perfectly balanced way).
We have 1 ranged weapon (the bow), we simply want an alternative ranged weapon that has it's own time and place, that does something better than the bow (range and damage) while also being worse in other ways (rate of fire/ease of use/expense).
My attempt was to go for simplicity, is there anything in particular you disagree with?
[] [] []
Also, I would like to modify my musket ball recipe from earlier to one that I think is better and helps to balance it more:
[]
[]
Which would give you 4 musket "bullets", which would essentially mean that each shot would cost you 1 iron ingot, which I think is pretty balanced.
Also, I should mention that a well trained rifleman could fire off around 3 shots a minute during the Civil War. Which means about 20 seconds between shots. I don't know if we should go that far in Minecraft, but I figured I would state the facts regardless. I think a better scenario would be to:
1)put the "unloaded musket" in the 2x2 crafting panel,
2)put the bullet in the crafting panel,
3)click craft,
4)get the "loaded musket" from the crafting panel and put it in the quick bar
5)Left click once to "cock" the rifle. (a 1-1.5 second delay)
6)Left click again to fire (sssssssss BOOM [another 1-1.5 second delay between trigger and effect])
I used the stopwatch on my phone to do some calculating. Factoring in how long it would take an average player (myself) to fumble around with the inventory while trying to be fast, follow all the steps, with the 2 artificial 1.5 delays, I figure it would take just over 8 seconds to get off a shot with the musket, and that is if you just fired as soon as the game let you. It would take longer if you actually took some time to aim your shot. In that amount of time, a good player could fire about 40 arrows (at 5 arrows a second) which would do a total of 80 damage if they all hit, and that player could strike from a distance of 55 tiles away.
Even if the musket player had 10 loaded muskets in his quick bar, it would still take that player between 2 and 3 seconds to fire each shot with the cocking delay and the firing delay (time for 15 more arrows and 30 more damage), and that's if they fired as fast as they could taking no time to aim. With the smoke emitted from each shot the musket player would also have trouble seeing his target as well if he didn't relocate. Even if the musket does 5 hearts damage to an unarmored target (or even an armored one), it would still take a minimum of 4-6 seconds to fire enough to take down a target. In the 3 seconds between the shots, a decent player with cooked pork in his quick bar could heal 4 out of 5 damage and keep coming. A player up close with a diamond sword can kill in 2 swipes, which would take far less time than it would to fire a single musket shot (not to mention you might miss - remember 40m/s speed for the bullet). It seems plenty balanced to me in that regard, also it seems the musket would be more of a defensive weapon where the bow and arrows could be offensive or defensive.
I would invite anyone pro or anti-gun to come on the server and see for themselves exactly what effects something like described would have on the gameplay.
- Much slower rate of fire
- Less range
- More expensive
- Can't be used while standing in the rain
- Very powerful
I fail to see how it would make Minecraft a first person shooter. A game isn't an FPS just because there are firearms and it's in the first person view. A single weapon you can use is a firearm, it doesn't change what the game is. Anyway, you won't be running and gunning with something like this...
The musket should be a long range, fairly precise, high damage weapon with a low rate of fire (minimum 5 hearts to an armored target, but 6 would be better [7-8 to an unarmored]). It should kill in 2 shots (nothing should insta-kill) if the target does not heal. The Bow and Arrows already have the medium to short range covered, and much better than anything else we could come up with. The key is to have the musket in a different niche. It needs to do it's own thing, for use in it's own specific situation, rather than do something that something else already does better.
I think long range, high damage, with the need to reload after each shot and a minimum 2-3 seconds between shots if you're smart enough to bring multiple muskets is plenty to balance it with the existing weapons, fit it into the world of Minecraft, while still being useful and expensive without being stupidly expensive.
I've seen a lot of people who want a gun so badly they would accept a totally useless waste of expensive resources that fired diamond bullets once every 20 seconds with horrible precision at point blank range while breaking after 10 shots and being useless in rainy weather. And still the anti-gun crowd screams "NO! IT WOULD BREAK THE GAME! MINECRAFT ISN'T A SHOOTER!" However the "Mac-10 and Arrows" (which has a much high DPS [Damage per second not Damage per shot]) is perfectly fine by them and definitely doesn't break the game or make it a shooter in their mind. The logic of that thought process escapes me. These same people will probably also be the ones who will be circle strafing with their "Mac-10 and Arrows" the moment PVP comes out (which is fine by me you play how you want I won't stop you but I expect the same).
I say, make the gun good, moderately expensive, with a different usage from the Bow (Long Range, Precise [not perfectly], High Damage, Low Rate of Fire) that could be used opposite the Bow (Medium-Short Range, Parabolic, Low Damage, High Rate of Fire)
Maybe it's because I play with the smallest draw distance. When I play, I can't even see anything past the range of the bow. I guess the arquebus with a greater range could be useful for other people. It might make fighting large bosses very easy though. I can hit a skeleton from 40-50 blocks away with the bow. If it were a dragon or a giant, hitting it would be much, much easier. Switching to the arquebus, you could hit the dragon or giant with unerring accuracy* from an even greater distance with 5 times the killing power. I've always thought of the arquebus as something you wouldn't always have with you, but something you'd go get from your chest during an emergency. Like you're under siege from pigmen or attacked by a dragon. Perhaps if you planned on a dangerous mission you'd take it. Something mainly for fighting more powerful mobs coming in the future. However, you don't want to make the arquebus a too powerful weapon for fighting dragons and giants. With a long range arquebus, massive mobs that could take a lot of damage wouldn't be as threatening.
One thing I like about a primitive firearm is I could use gunpowder. I don't see much of a use for TNT but I still get excited about collecting gunpowder since it's not really easy to get. A firearm would give me something to do with my gunpowder.
I'd like a 10 second automatic reload time and 5-7 arrow hits worth of damage for each shot. Range isn't so important to me either way but I worry it would make boss battles too easy. The cost of it is actually quite subjective too. depending on how much supplies you usually collect.
*Because judging the angle at which you loose your arrow would be unnecessary.
The long ranged single shot musket is no threat to the medium ranged "Mac-10 and Arrows" trust me, it could do 1 damage an arrow and still murder everything in sight with its rate of fire.
MOD EDIT: This is not a contribution to the discussion. Don't do that again.
And please read the moderator notice in the OP of the thread, as well as the sticky for rules specific to the suggestions section.
When Napoleon captured Vilnius on the 28th of June, 1812, he lay his sword down upon his map and said that the campaign would end there. That he would finish off Russia in 1813. Did that happen?
People change their minds sometimes. Notch is a people, thus he may change his mind.