@Drury, Mystify actually doesn't like the idea, even though it's medieval because it doesn't fit his vision of the world, no matter how sensible. But unlike you he tries to work things out to see how it would fit in his vision and accept them, because as of right now, Minecraft has no real time setting, and even if it does Medieval Europe is far from it. Not only that but it would have been be pretty hypocritical of him to not work out guns with me and the OP because he's willing to accept TNT and many wacky stuff done with it, Record players, trains, but the sudden inclusion of a gun makes him bat blind hate? Plus you're not presenting any arguments against the statistics or stating how they're flawed you're just making assumptions about people's actions. Not once are you attacking the actual idea of guns.
1. It's not that easy. Try to draw a car with environment in MSPaint... It should take like five minutes (really). And that's just one ugly car and a couple of trees, hills and houses!
And it's not that easy to change code. You have to rewrite lots and lots of lines, just to make it fit (it's not like "add one line saying
whileshooting=block movement in all dirrections"; it's more like
(it's MUCH more complicated, this is just extremely simple example)". And make new .class files possibly. Just to make player freeze.
You act like I am not an extremely experienced programmer. I know exactly what would go into coding "freeze while shooting". And it most definitely would not involve new classes, unless you are coding it in the most backwards way.
I don't know what you are trying to do, but you are severely overcomplicated it.
Quote from Drury »
Quote from Mystify »
So if they are unlimited, they are overpowered, but if you add limits, they are useless? There is no middle ground? I could argue that the bow is useless because some people could dodge arrows all day, and you have a limited supply of arrows. Or you could argue it is overpowered becuase it does damage at range, making swords useless. We spent most of this thread debating how to balance the weapon so that it is useful but not overpowered, and we achieved that. You are only immobilized for a short time when useing it, so you don't automatically become the pin cushion of the century. The enemy has a short enough time that they have a hard time dodging it, but a long enough time that it is possible to do so. It takes time in the crafting window to reload, but it is not something you are meant to reload in combat anyways. Present some actual arguments for why it can't be balanced, don't present a false dichotomy of "overpowered/useless" without any support.
You don't get it. Think about what I wrote more. It's guns - everyone know that NOTCH doesn't like them. And you wanted to make him implement them because they're... Well, I don't know, maybe they bring more variety to the game. Anyway, you want them in game for some reason. So what will you do? Make them useless because if they were too powerful, Notch would be angry that someone is nagging him with guns again. But if you say that they won't change anything and that there won't be people running around with guns, there is greater chance of success. And if some element of game doesn't change anything, it's useless.
And I am not saying we should have guns. I am saying your arguments against them don't make sense. Notch rejecting them is perfectly within his rights as the game designer. I am not pro-gun, I am anti-fallacy. I am arguing against your arguments, not becuase I think the conclusion of"No guns" is wrong, but because your rational for it is wrong. Arguing poorly for a point of view does not help that point of view, it just makes the position seem unreasonable.
@Drury, you don't belong on the suggestions forums then, I've seen many suggestions and topics ruined because people always pull up the old TL;DR meme "trump card" When really, it isn't a "trumpcard", it's a monument to their stubborness, and in some cases stupidity.
Also as I said, you're not proposing any arguments against the actual idea, you're just making assumptions on how people will react to an idea you haven't even read probably.
Seems pretty good, though I have my own ideas about the range and accuracy (I didnt see accuracy listed?) but what you have there is good. I would change the limit of moving so its possible to move. And the damage of close range would be 3-4 armored depending on what kind of armor you have and 5 unarmored.
@Speedy well we wanted to keep the accuracy 100% because you can't move, and the weapon would be hitscan plus the firing rate. Although your idea of it having a WEE BIT more penetrating power than the bow is accepted by me since this weapon was really devastating when used properly. I don't know if mystify would be okay with this idea (not that it matters much, but I still want to at least have the discussion active)
Diamond armor damage =2
Steel Armor damage = 3
Cloth armor = 4
I don't know how it would compare with the bow according to damage rankings if we do it this way though since I think the arrow does damage to all the armors equally or maybe it doesn't IDK
I think all armour has equal protective power at max, but differing durability. A diamond armour may protect the same as leather on the first hit, but its advantage is that it is still mostly intact on the second hit, while cloth is heavily damaged at that point and offers less protection. Its an advantage over a battle to have higher-tier armour, not on a single hit.
Being able to move brings about a lot of gameplay issues. See my posts earlier in the thread for a detailed debate on that issue.
Wait so you're saying, that diamond armor protects as much as regular, but it lasts longer? WOW I never knew this, since well I rarely have the need for armor. Maybe SMP will change that later on.
You know I tried to make a thread that collects info like this that the Minecraft wiki doesn't, but nobody payed attention to it. Want to start it for me? My first attempt was a failure.
@Mystify, damn. Oh well, it'd just be nice to remind people to research stats more or to keep stuff like that that nobody does you know? I looked up at the wiki for how much damage a B&A does and nothing shows up
It's not as bad as it was earlier buuuuut... take it easy around here, folks. Notch had already said in the past that guns are out. Just because he has said this again doesn't suddenly make it totally fine to disrupt discussion.
Clean it up or move along.
EDIT: And if you feel like you've said all that needs to be said, let the topic sink for later times.
The OP has found that the average Minecraft character can sprint about 7 tiles in one second
The op also agreed to a carrying restriction to be implemented to the Arquebus to avoid it being fired multiple times.
I'm also going to point out this, this gun is not point and click, it is fused based, meaning after you click it takes 3 seconds to fire like the real thing
Edit: The only editing this post will get is that of Stats
If you can't even move while shooting, you might as well unfold it like a hamn turret.
Yes, I can see how they would fit in, and even how you said that everything fits, it would be balanced etc.. but even with dynamite, and many other that age type of thins, I just don't feel like guns, even weak ones would fit with minecraft. And with all the drawbacks why would anyone use guns? Tho I could see using a gun as a defense, say keeping one in a chest where zombies get in, but besides dungeons you don't go "hunting" creatures unless you need their items.Also its Survival mode. I could see how guns fit in there more the creative mode (that would be funny)
Please pardon me and this post seeing as I have near to none experience of SURVIVAL mode only some multilayer. I think explosive arrows say
Air Air Air
Arrow Charcoal Flint
Air Air Air
Or something similar would be a better replacement, tho the explosion would only be say 2x2 or so. Thanks, tho Ill prob never check into this thread again.
Again, please pardon me, half my post is contradicting me, half you/guns.
Edit: Now that I see the post of Mats and pros cons I think guns would fit, but I still wouldn't promote them/encourage.
The gun is slightly underpowered for me, but if you could make the gun destructive, such as ripping holes into floors and walls, there may be a great use for it, such as insta-shattering all block types, except maybe sand(obvious reasons).
The gun is a great idea, but needs a few little things to have a some advantages over bows
I agree, I think their making it too underpowered to be much use at all.