Just now seeing this I think more blocks/ore and more crafting options are going to be a major plus to the game however they occur. I do get the feeling grinding down diamonds or gold into dust in order to apply them to another metal would be a good way to approach it. Maybe doing such to a single bar can yield more than one unit of gold dust, and depending what you're making you may need more/less. Just would make it feel less magical I think. In any case I am anxious to see what new block types will be added perhaps as a result of the suggestions here.
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"When as children we listen and dream, we think but half formed thoughts. And when as men we try to remember, we are dulled and prosaic with the poison of life." - Celephaïs, H.P. Lovecraft
EDIT: I definitely agree with your statement of how the best items in the game should be very difficult to get. I think that if diamond were to be the best material in the game with your update, then it would need to be more powerful than it is now (maybe take thousands of swings to break if it's a pickaxe, hundreds for a sword?). But that is just a balancing issue.
I really think that a few items need to be very hard to get so that we can always have something to aspire to, to look forward to. As it is now, I can get diamond tools after about 10 or so hours of play, and then I get somewhat bored. I know this game is a lot about building and if I don't enjoy building then you might say it's not my kind of game, but I expect that I am not the only one out there who finds the current modes to get a bit boring. I think we should have something else to look forward to besides building a cool base.
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The more Swiss cheese you have, the more holes you have.
The more holes you have, the less Swiss cheese you have.
Therefore, the more Swiss cheese you have the less Swiss cheese you have.
After reading through most of the first page and about 25% of the second, my impression is that people want to mix in normal magic with the alchemy. I'm all for alchemy, but any other form of magic would in my opinion ruin the game entirely. "Enchantments" should not be present, if you ask me.
I bought MC because of two reasons, 1) It's loads more realistic than any other game like it, and 2) it's Swedish. Point two doesn't really matter, though.
My thoughts about this debate is this:
Alchemy, while completely bogus, still seems to be legit at a first glance, even for a scientist, while magic is what an 18th century citizen would have called a combustion engine. It's like an umbrella term for "stuff we don't know but want to look like we do while never actually wanting to learn about it".
Alchemy would add a nice element of variation to the (even to me, who've owned the game for about a week) pretty stale crafting mechanic, and it would add an RTS-like element to gameplay, While "conventional magic" would destroy the concept of the game entirely.
I'm under the impression that people who play Indev do so because they like to do the 4X; explore, expand, exploit, exterminate. At least, that's what I do.
Looking up at the post, it seems I changed the subject about four times, but I think I'm getting my point across.
Is this summary correct?
Bumped because this idea is great. It seems that most people want some magic too. Personally, I don't think that magic could be integrated in such a way that the game wouldn't be ruined, because I either haven't read all the suggestions about magic, only see it as pew pew magic and cheap enchantments that make tools last forever, do everything, and do it instantly, or don't like the idea of having magic as one of the things that are very hard to get, but worth it. Anyway, I like Minecraft because it is realistic and it is Swedish, but the second part doesn't matter at all. My thoughts are that alchemy wasn't a real science (the dermatology of science), but only SEEMS like it at first glance. It essentially means "stuff we can't do but pretend to do anyway" to me. I think that alchemy, while not valid in any way, would be fun for me, someone who has had just a week's experience with indev and infdev, whereas magic I think would destroy the game. No explanation as to why, I just do.
(I am very aggressive when people take positions, don't support them, and have missed large chunks of things that have been said before)
I love this idea. I'm in full support of any alchemy in game, and I have played The Codex of alchemical engineering before reading this :biggrin.gif:
Although I usually talk in really big posts, there are just far to many for me to read, so tell me if this has been talked about before.
Sulphur, salt, mercury and gold powder were used as the main 'catalysts' of alchemy.
First question that comes to my mind is how do we get them?
Gold powder is simple to get (well, really.. it's just gold powder right?) so that's sorted.
Salt come from the sea, so it could be a simple drop from salt water disappearing or when picking up sand. Another option is a salt ore that exists only at sea level.
Mercury and sulphur are harder. A cinnabar ore would be great in this case - you can get them both sulphur and Mercury from it. My epic wiki-surfing skillz showed me that cinnabar is forged to separate the sulphur from mercury. Although a current forge could do this, it would might only catch one of them (mercury could turn into gas, leaving only sulphur).
An alchemist forge could be used (probably 8 blocks or ingots of either iron/gold in chest shape) to get both resources from a cinnabar ore. This furnace could be used for other things to.
Now you have the problem of where to find cinnabar. It naturally exists near volcanoes, so it makes sense for it to either generate near one, or be created when lava cools.
Both a possible volcano and the lava cooling were discussed here, and could be used to make cinnabar.
Conclusion of this:
Salt is the easiest to get, but might not do much on its own. Gold powder next easiest, but it's rare. needed for most reactions. Then sulphur, used for certain enchantments, then mercury. This provides a tech tree withen alchemy, as well as solving a (possibly non-existent problem as I didn't read the whole post) problem regarding where to find materials.
Being an excellent suggestion does not require staying at the top of the page. You may notice that the thread is somewhat old. You needn't worry about us forgetting about it; people will likely reference it throughout discussions about magic, and there's no fear of this book of alchemy being lost.
I just got around to reading this, and I love this idea. Lots of potential, fits with the theme, etc. I like the idea of a long and complex crafting/alchemy tree. Having to make choices about how to spend your resources can add a lot of interest to a game.
I did have a couple of ideas for it. One goal of alchemy was to create the elixir of life, another was to create a philosopher's stone (which may or may not be the same thing). These could be worthy goals of high-level alchemy.
A philosopher's stone would be one of the most complex items to create, involving many steps, and virtually every resource at some point or another. A philosopher's stone would have two uses: Transmuting resources to different resources, and creating the elixir of life. It will have a limit to how much it can be used before being used up.
Transmuting resources to other resources would take off some of the pressure of tracking down the specific resources you need. It is a powerful and useful end goal, worth the effort without being overpowered.
The other use of a philosophers stone would be creating the elixir of life. This is also a very complex, advanced process, which gives you a usable item. After you drink the elixir of life, you become 'less mortal'. This means that if you are killed, you don't die, and recover full health, and get a short (probably 10-30 seconds) burst of invincibility where NOTHING can hurt you. After it wears off you are mortal again, and need more elixir to become 'less mortal' again. The idea is to give you a second life, which you would have earned if you manage to create the elixir, and the invincibility is to prevent whatever killed you, be it falling into lava or a mob swarm, from instantly killing you again, offering you at least the chance to escape.
I am trying to get effects that are worth the extreme effort, fit with the theme of alchemy, and match the theoretical properties of the items, without being overpowered.
That has been addressed already. It is a high-tier material, so it requires a bit more to get it. That would simply be the cost of a diamond sword, because this is assuming you can't craft one normally.
Have you emailed this to Notch? I don't care when it's implemented so long as it is EVENTUALLY. The main goal of Alchemy was to make gold (that what most of the philosophers stone kinda things were supposed to be able to do) among other things as pointed out already. So it would be funny to reverse that and the goal is changing gold into other things. Gold being the main catalyst would both give it a use and expand on low to mid level alchemy requiring a semi-rare resource.
And again, it would be funny.
Holy crap, this is awesome. Maybe this should go so far as to say that for some complex things (like making a diamond sword), you have to make the transmutation circle on the ground using a specific pattern out of blocks?
Also, I would like to suggest the diamond sword pattern be changed, if you had two diamonds already, why would you go through all that trouble (and waste a diamond) just to make the sword while instead you could just use two diamonds and a stick?
I would also like to note how awesome this would fit in considering this is both a mid-evil-ish game, and has a mineral focus XD