Minecraft Forums

Hey keybounce why dont you contact jeb or mojang and ask if mob grinders are an intended feature?

So what you want to do is replace the current system, which requires a large structure to easily enchant things (basically, industrial buildings) with pure grinding?

I hate level grinding, and I hate the idea that it's anyone's idea of "balanced, fun gameplay". This idea would basically remove any reason to have a permanent base, on multiplayer.

In fact, removing mob grinders would just mean that now everyone makes chicken farms to grind for chicken to trade to villagers for emeralds to trade for bottles o' enchanting.

Also, EXP was made really easy to get with the snapshots and mining, so it's clearly not intended to be super hard to get.

Quote from Mattpoppybros

In fact, removing mob grinders would just mean that now everyone makes chicken farms to grind for chicken to trade to villagers for emeralds to trade for bottles o' enchanting.

Also, EXP was made really easy to get with the snapshots and mining, so it's clearly not intended to be super hard to get.

You know, this is exactly right. You can create a chicken grinder even easier than a hostile mob grinder. Passive mobs already give easy and free XP. Why aren't you complaining about that?

Here's one of the quotes your looking for, whether it aids your suggestion is another story.

"You can grind away and level up fast if you want to, or you can just play as normal and level up that way. The longer you play, the bigger the risk of dying becomes. It's the part that really works."
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/07/20/first-details-on-minecrafts-xp-system-notch-when-you-die-you-lose-all-levels-you-lose-all-xp/

Again, it's rather vague. The only thing that I would give attention to is the part about risk

Quote from kagerou313

Here's one of the quotes your looking for, whether it aids your suggestion is another story.

"You can grind away and level up fast if you want to, or you can just play as normal and level up that way. The longer you play, the bigger the risk of dying becomes. It's the part that really works."
http://www.pcgamer.c...ou-lose-all-xp/

Again, it's rather vague. The only thing that I would give attention to is the part about risk

Well, the idea of risk is more along the lines that if you die, whether you got the XP from grinding, mining, or fighting, you'll lose it all, less if not at all that you have to step up your fighting abilities constantly to get more XP after a while. Mobs don't get harder as you go along (and hopefully they don't, Minecraft isn't that kind of game), mobs are constant; a zombie will always be a zombie and nothing more. Because of this, you have the same risk with a mob grinder as you do from fighting as you do from mining; you can always fall in lava, get jumped by mobs at night or in a dark cave, get lost, and so on and so forth, and you'll always have the same risk of losing (most of, with the current updates) your XP.

And even so, it doesn't really change the points previously stated. Grinders aren't overpowered game-breaking designs and they haven't been since the first one was created; if they were, they would have been removed already, since it's already been so many updates and snapshots since XP first came out and the beginning of grinders themselves since mob drops came out.

Quote from Delbareth

@Hybran
OK! Friends!

Coolio.

Quote from Blablah99

You know, this is exactly right. You can create a chicken grinder even easier than a hostile mob grinder. Passive mobs already give easy and free XP. Why aren't you complaining about that?

Solution to everything:

Remove XP altogether.

Quote from Hybran

Solution to everything:

Remove XP altogether.

That is possibly the worst solution. XP is for enchantments and as a reward for doing something (regardless of what this something is, be it smelting a stack of cobble or killing the Enderdragon), it doesn't have to be removed.

Quote from Hybran

Solution to everything:

Remove XP altogether.

I don't know what to dislike more, the OP's idea or your's.

This thread needs to be moved to Discussion. It's just taking up space in Suggestions.

Quote from BumpyBob0007

Hey keybounce why dont you contact jeb or mojang and ask if mob grinders are an intended feature?

I've tried. They don't seem to want to comment.

Quote from Mattpoppybros

So what you want to do is replace the current system, which requires a large structure to easily enchant things (basically, industrial buildings) with pure grinding?

I hate level grinding, and I hate the idea that it's anyone's idea of "balanced, fun gameplay". This idea would basically remove any reason to have a permanent base, on multiplayer.

The problem is grinding. Don't grind. It is my assumption that the whole reason why more sources of experience have been included is so you don't need to. You can just play the game, go about your buisness, and then one day...SURPRISE! You have enough levels for an enchantment. So you plop down one of your spare Iron Picks, the ones you had anyway because you know your current one will eventually break. It comes out Efficiency II...and then you realize, "Hey, this sure beats the speed of a regular pick." because it's something special to even get that, and that in turn makes you appreciate how helpful it really is.

Quote from Hybran

Solution to everything:

Remove XP altogether.

And replace it with what?
If nothing, just free enchanting - Terrible idea.
If some kind of crafting system, like magic circles with items in specific slots or something like alchemy? ...maybe.

Quote from Prettypinkdork

This thread needs to be moved to Discussion. It's just taking up space in Suggestions.

Discussion is not appropriate to this topic, as it is actually suggesting something. Just because people are debating the idea does not mean that it is a purely discussion topic. All ideas get discussed.

Quote from CAN_Archer

I don't know what to dislike more, the OP's idea or your's.

I hope you don't think I'm serious.

Quote from Neospector

That is possibly the worst solution. XP is for enchantments and as a reward for doing something (regardless of what this something is, be it smelting a stack of cobble or killing the Enderdragon), it doesn't have to be removed.

Again, I hope you don't think I'm serious.

Quote from AnonTheMouse

And replace it with what?
If nothing, just free enchanting - Terrible idea.
If some kind of crafting system, like magic circles with items in specific slots or something like alchemy? ...maybe.

And again, I hope you don't think I'm serious.

People are suggesting so many different ideas as alternatives it totally makes sense to get rid of it to stop further discussion.

You know what could be interesting? If xp were only avaliable through bottles o' enchanting. You buy them with emeralds, and you can obtain emeralds from a number of sources. Farming, mining, and fighting all produce items that can be sold for emeralds, and then those emeralds can be used to buy bottles o' enchanting. Of course, the villager economy would have to be reworked to make it balanced, but I think it could work.

Quote from AnonTheMouse

The problem is grinding. Don't grind. It is my assumption that the whole reason why more sources of experience have been included is so you don't need to. You can just play the game, go about your buisness, and then one day...SURPRISE! You have enough levels for an enchantment. So you plop down one of your spare Iron Picks, the ones you had anyway because you know your current one will eventually break. It comes out Efficiency II...and then you realize, "Hey, this sure beats the speed of a regular pick." because it's something special to even get that, and that in turn makes you appreciate how helpful it really is.

Some people have the time to grind. There are enough Youtube videos to go around. Why NOT grind, really?

Quote from Blablah99

You know what could be interesting? If xp were only avaliable through bottles o' enchanting. You buy them with emeralds, and you can obtain emeralds from a number of sources. Farming, mining, and fighting all produce items that can be sold for emeralds, and then those emeralds can be used to buy bottles o' enchanting. Of course, the villager economy would have to be reworked to make it balanced, but I think it could work.

There'd have to be a (slightly) bigger payout of xp from them to make a good system. And the villager economy reworked, yes.

Meh... Everything's fine in my opinion.

Quote from Hybran

Some people have the time to grind. There are enough Youtube videos to go around. Why NOT grind, really?

I wasn't the one complaining about grinding, just replying to the complaint.

Quote from Hybran

Solution to everything:

Remove XP altogether.

best solution (and i personalty do not care for exp)

Quote from Keybounce

Yes, I do.

If you did, then you would have known that you can't buy Gold or Diamond, and can only buy Diamond tools and Armor at approximately a stack of Iron Ingots each.

The first trading offers were known to be nothing more than placeholders. People analyzed them, and the whole "cost per material" of tools and armor was a disaster. Everything was way off. That was expected -- it was just an initial implementation, not a final product. There were adjustments and everything.

Last night I made a 27a world (had been waiting for 28a, was very disappointed to find that Jeb has said "I'm almost out of bugs to fix, find more for me", and won't release his current state.). Went to a village -- about 14 people. Almost all farmers. One librarian. One blacksmith. One butcher.

The trade offers even in 27a are ...
Worthless

Seriously, I see people bringing out mods just to make the village economy better. The current state of 27a ... well, I won't expect to ever do any trading with NPC's. Yes, it's that bad. I never expected it to be anywhere near that bad.

NPC village economy: http://www.minecraft...5#entry15823395
NPC traders that come to you (and charge for the delivery): http://www.minecraft.../#entry12330837

Since this has nothing to do with mob grinders any more, I will not talk about the value of trade goods.

Alright. If you get 5 XP per kill, and need 4625 XP for level 50, that means 925 kills. If you get 40 kills in a game night (very high, but possible), you would need more than 20 nights of fighting without dying. Trying to find 900+ monsters in caves underground will take a very long time.

Now, the idea of being able to do this without messing up, and dying, and starting over is kinda crazy.

Or rushed, as most of the "features" implemented in 1.0.0 were.

But this in no way should have led anyone to the conclusion that you're only supposed to get level 50 enchants once.

"I can't get looting 3 with a low level enchant". True. Why do you think you are entitled to get looting 3? Why not ask for looting 8 or 9?

Because what would happen if, I dunno let me actually use my brain here, I wanted more than just a lowly Looting 1 on a finite tool?

Of course, I could make due with a Looting 1. It does help at earlier stages in a map. But once I stop only relying on random spawns, and have a steady source of XP, I don't see any reason why I should be forced to settle for a Looting 1 when I can try for a Looting 3.

Let me ask this question in a different form. Does the existence of level 9 magic user spells, that requires level 18 characters to use, mean that you should be able to become a level 18 mage whenever you want? Does the existence of epic magic that requires level 21 characters mean that you can make yourself level 21?

Minecraft is not like D&D. You can't compare the two.

Especially when the Minecraft "leveling system" is only used for enchanting and meant to be expendable, and not a source of achievement and progress.

Do you really think that because something exists, that you can use it as much and as often as you want?

Sandbox game?

I'm free to do whatever I want in a Sandbox game. According to you, if I choose to work my way towards something, I shouldn't get that something unless it is under one specific occurrence?

Man, you're the fail around here.

Sorry, you fail. I did do the research.

Source: http://pernsteiner.o...chant_snapshot/

Sharpness 5 is only possible for gold and wood.
Efficiency 5 is only possible for gold, iron, and wood.
Power 5 is not available at all.

Wait, wtf, what did you say?

Sorry, that's just not even possible. Re-read what you said.

Oh, I'm sorry. Just because Power 5 isn't available anymore, I'm completely wrong in saying that 30 is the new 50.

how is this still alive?

Quote from general_207

how is this still alive?

Or something along those lines. Go figure. It's more of an infinite loop of the discussion of if resources should be infinite and yeah.