I remember running around when I was new and just cliff jumping for fun cause it was awesome to fall almost the entire map height through overhangs mountains and into trees, but now you can't find a single good mountain worthy of carving a Dwarf kingdom in, and even if you did, you'd probably hit an endless hole. The whole swiss cheese thing. Its really sad, cause a lot of my inspiration for builds came from these terrains, it was so random, yet at the same time oddly uniform. And what bugs me the most, now-a-days you can't find a single waterfall, where as before you could be boating down a calm river and randomly fall to your death. The generator could easily be fixed to please everyone too, they can have a realism generation mode and a fantasy generation mode.
And what bugs me the most, now-a-days you can't find a single waterfall, where as before you could be boating down a calm river and randomly fall to your death.
I don't ever remember a time when this could happen...
I remember running around when I was new and just cliff jumping for fun cause it was awesome to fall almost the entire map height through overhangs mountains and into trees, but now you can't find a single good mountain worthy of carving a Dwarf kingdom in, and even if you did, you'd probably hit an endless hole. The whole swiss cheese thing. Its really sad, cause a lot of my inspiration for builds came from these terrains, it was so random, yet at the same time oddly uniform. And what bugs me the most, now-a-days you can't find a single waterfall, where as before you could be boating down a calm river and randomly fall to your death. The generator could easily be fixed to please everyone too, they can have a realism generation mode and a fantasy generation mode.
To have a realistic mode, they'd have to start a new generator from scratch. The current one is still far from realistic. One way to describe it is "failed fantasy."
Maybe this is an answer. They just added generator options for SuperFlat. They could add options for the Normal generator: large biomes, small biomes, classic. And then you can mod your updated generator.
This is a really good proposal. We could use mountains with trees on them, mountains formed in the most bizarre ways, floating islands, random terrain, and cool formations. I support.
Ok, decided to elaborate further on my previous idea, with pictures and such. Here it is:
Part A: Overworld terrain
Step 1: Terrain first, not biomes.
Currently the way the terrain is generated is the seed determines biomes, and then takes the code for that specific biome and generates the terrain accordingly.
However, since the code is exactly the same, that means that each similar biome is almost exactly the same. The way to change that is to make the terrain generate first - not the biomes.
Of course, there would be some presets - flat areas would have more of a chance to generate next to other flat areas, areas below Y=64 would have more of a chance to generate next to eachother, etc...
*Terrain should be able to generate up to Y=130 to allow for larger mountains
Step 2: Now comes biomes.
Once terrain is generated, the game will look at the terrain and determine biomes accordingly. Here is how it will determine them:
-Large, flattish areas detected: Either forest (55% chance), plains (35% chance), or tundra (10%) will generate.
-However, if a large, flat area is detected near a large area of terrain below Y=64, it will have a 40% chance to be a swamp.
-Areas with medium-sized hills will have a 70% chance of being a desert biome, and a 30% chance to be a forest biome.
-Areas with large-sized hills (the majority of the terrain) will have a 40% chance to be a forest biome, a 40% chance to be an extreme-hills biome, and a 20% chance to be a jungle biome.
-Areas below Y=64 are oceans.
Step 3: Biome specifics.
Here are some changes which should be made:
>Taiga and Tundra should not have snow required to generate in them - instead, all biomes - with some exceptions (shown below), should have a 10% chance to be a snow biome - including forests, plains, and more. Exceptions:
-Jungles
-Deserts
-Swamps
Oceans are not an exception. Haven't you ever heard of the antarctic?
>Pine forests should not generate by themselves - instead, when a forest generates, it should have a 40% chance of being a pine forest.
Step 4: Biomes established, now comes the materials.
Pretty simple really - now the biome-specific materials come. Forests generate trees, swamps generate small islands, oceans shift the terrain around them to be flat for beaches, deserts generate sand and cacti...
Step 5: Rivers, Islands, and generated structures.
Next, rivers generate in biomes. If they are not attached to an ocean, they will generate a small lake at one end. They will no longer be completely flat but will move downwards with the terrain - resulting in waterfalls being able to be generated when a river starts at the top of a mountain.
Islands will generate in oceans by making underwater mountains generate. When an island is generated, there should be a 3% chance of it generating a mushroom island chain instead. Islands should also have a chance to generate next to other islands, forming archipelagos.
Finally, generated structures (villages, etc.) should generate.
Part B: Underground
The underground, currently, is an absolute mess. Absolutely riddled with caves. I suggest a few things to improve on this.
A) Make caves 20% rarer. Make cave branches 60% rarer.
C) Make ravines 50% rarer.
D) Make mineshafts 10% rarer, and make them look more like what an actual miner would build - more of an organized format and not just random shafts willy-nilly.
Ok, decided to elaborate further on my previous idea, with pictures and such. Here it is:
Part A: Overworld terrain
Step 1: Terrain first, not biomes.
Currently the way the terrain is generated is the seed determines biomes, and then takes the code for that specific biome and generates the terrain accordingly.
However, since the code is exactly the same, that means that each similar biome is almost exactly the same. The way to change that is to make the terrain generate first - not the biomes.
Of course, there would be some presets - flat areas would have more of a chance to generate next to other flat areas, areas below Y=64 would have more of a chance to generate next to eachother, etc...
*Terrain should be able to generate up to Y=130 to allow for larger mountains
Step 2: Now comes biomes.
Once terrain is generated, the game will look at the terrain and determine biomes accordingly. Here is how it will determine them:
-Large, flattish areas detected: Either forest (55% chance), plains (35% chance), or tundra (10%) will generate.
-However, if a large, flat area is detected near a large area of terrain below Y=64, it will have a 40% chance to be a swamp.
-Areas with medium-sized hills will have a 70% chance of being a desert biome, and a 30% chance to be a forest biome.
-Areas with large-sized hills (the majority of the terrain) will have a 40% chance to be a forest biome, a 40% chance to be an extreme-hills biome, and a 20% chance to be a jungle biome.
-Areas below Y=64 are oceans.
Step 3: Biome specifics.
Here are some changes which should be made:
>Taiga and Tundra should not have snow required to generate in them - instead, all biomes - with some exceptions (shown below), should have a 10% chance to be a snow biome - including forests, plains, and more. Exceptions:
-Jungles
-Deserts
-Swamps
Oceans are not an exception. Haven't you ever heard of the antarctic?
>Pine forests should not generate by themselves - instead, when a forest generates, it should have a 40% chance of being a pine forest.
Step 4: Biomes established, now comes the materials.
Pretty simple really - now the biome-specific materials come. Forests generate trees, swamps generate small islands, oceans shift the terrain around them to be flat for beaches, deserts generate sand and cacti...
Step 5: Rivers, Islands, and generated structures.
Next, rivers generate in biomes. If they are not attached to an ocean, they will generate a small lake at one end. They will no longer be completely flat but will move downwards with the terrain - resulting in waterfalls being able to be generated when a river starts at the top of a mountain.
Islands will generate in oceans by making underwater mountains generate. When an island is generated, there should be a 3% chance of it generating a mushroom island chain instead. Islands should also have a chance to generate next to other islands, forming archipelagos.
Finally, generated structures (villages, etc.) should generate.
Part B: Underground
The underground, currently, is an absolute mess. Absolutely riddled with caves. I suggest a few things to improve on this.
A) Make caves 20% rarer. Make cave branches 60% rarer.
C) Make ravines 50% rarer.
D) Make mineshafts 10% rarer, and make them look more like what an actual miner would build - more of an organized format and not just random shafts willy-nilly.
Ok, decided to elaborate further on my previous idea, with pictures and such. Here it is:
Part A: Overworld terrain
Step 1: Terrain first, not biomes.
Currently the way the terrain is generated is the seed determines biomes, and then takes the code for that specific biome and generates the terrain accordingly.
However, since the code is exactly the same, that means that each similar biome is almost exactly the same. The way to change that is to make the terrain generate first - not the biomes.
Of course, there would be some presets - flat areas would have more of a chance to generate next to other flat areas, areas below Y=64 would have more of a chance to generate next to eachother, etc...
*Terrain should be able to generate up to Y=130 to allow for larger mountains
Step 2: Now comes biomes.
Once terrain is generated, the game will look at the terrain and determine biomes accordingly. Here is how it will determine them:
-Large, flattish areas detected: Either forest (55% chance), plains (35% chance), or tundra (10%) will generate.
-However, if a large, flat area is detected near a large area of terrain below Y=64, it will have a 40% chance to be a swamp.
-Areas with medium-sized hills will have a 70% chance of being a desert biome, and a 30% chance to be a forest biome.
-Areas with large-sized hills (the majority of the terrain) will have a 40% chance to be a forest biome, a 40% chance to be an extreme-hills biome, and a 20% chance to be a jungle biome.
-Areas below Y=64 are oceans.
Step 3: Biome specifics.
Here are some changes which should be made:
>Taiga and Tundra should not have snow required to generate in them - instead, all biomes - with some exceptions (shown below), should have a 10% chance to be a snow biome - including forests, plains, and more. Exceptions:
-Jungles
-Deserts
-Swamps
Oceans are not an exception. Haven't you ever heard of the antarctic?
>Pine forests should not generate by themselves - instead, when a forest generates, it should have a 40% chance of being a pine forest.
Step 4: Biomes established, now comes the materials.
Pretty simple really - now the biome-specific materials come. Forests generate trees, swamps generate small islands, oceans shift the terrain around them to be flat for beaches, deserts generate sand and cacti...
Step 5: Rivers, Islands, and generated structures.
Next, rivers generate in biomes. If they are not attached to an ocean, they will generate a small lake at one end. They will no longer be completely flat but will move downwards with the terrain - resulting in waterfalls being able to be generated when a river starts at the top of a mountain.
Islands will generate in oceans by making underwater mountains generate. When an island is generated, there should be a 3% chance of it generating a mushroom island chain instead. Islands should also have a chance to generate next to other islands, forming archipelagos.
Finally, generated structures (villages, etc.) should generate.
Part B: Underground
The underground, currently, is an absolute mess. Absolutely riddled with caves. I suggest a few things to improve on this.
A) Make caves 20% rarer. Make cave branches 60% rarer.
C) Make ravines 50% rarer.
D) Make mineshafts 10% rarer, and make them look more like what an actual miner would build - more of an organized format and not just random shafts willy-nilly.
1. It uses same code for all biomes, except decoration. Just takes height from biomes.
Such "presets" are impossible, everything is done by just noise gen
2. Once terrain is generated... Lag will come. You probably don't know how check is done, and how slow it is.
And, since terrain is generated in chunks, there will be glitches where one chunk is filled with biome, and other chunk is filled with another one.
Why do you need extreme hills? You don't need workarounds if mountains properly generate. And for all other biomes: It doesn't solve main issue: Biomes will still have no variation, since they tend to generate in areas that look same.
3. About chances: And what's the difference between chance of generating taiga instead of forest and having taiga generate just like forest?
Don't make things complicated without need.
Snow idea is awful. You will need to copy each biome for that. Again, what's the difference between this and just having many different snow biomes?
4. Generating islands? Shifting terrain? But you said that all mountains etc are generated at the first step.
5. Same as for 4.
B. 20% rarer? 10% rarer? This will nto make difference. Anyway, there was pnly one change with them in 1.8, we just need to revert it.
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1. It uses same code for all biomes, except decoration. Just takes height from biomes.
Such "presets" are impossible, everything is done by just noise gen
2. Once terrain is generated... Lag will come. You probably don't know how check is done, and how slow it is.
And, since terrain is generated in chunks, there will be glitches where one chunk is filled with biome, and other chunk is filled with another one.
Why do you need extreme hills? You don't need workarounds if mountains properly generate. And for all other biomes: It doesn't solve main issue: Biomes will still have no variation, since they tend to generate in areas that look same.
3. About chances: And what's the difference between chance of generating taiga instead of forest and having taiga generate just like forest?
Don't make things complicated without need.
Snow idea is awful. You will need to copy each biome for that. Again, what's the difference between this and just having many different snow biomes?
4. Generating islands? Shifting terrain? But you said that all mountains etc are generated at the first step.
5. Same as for 4.
B. 20% rarer? 10% rarer? This will nto make difference. Anyway, there was only one change with them in 1.8, we just need to revert it.
1. Then take away the presets? It would just make biomes smaller, I guess.
2. Both good points. I'm no expert on how minecraft terrain is generated, I'm just putting the idea out there to see how possible it would be. As for EH, I would occasionally like a mountain without any trees on it.
3. Forest/Taiga: Not sure actually. Good point. Snow: No difference, just that when a biome generates, it has that chance of becoming its snow type. (I would like to see some beta-style snow forests and snowless pine forests)
4. That's to make it match the biome. When the terrain generates, it generates by noise; it doesn't know that an area's going to be, say, an ocean until it gets looked at. So, once it knows it's an ocean, it will generate the flat beaches everyone used to love. Unless, of course, we don't want those beaches anymore.
5. Just to make sure oceans aren't completely barren.
1. Then take away the presets? It would just make biomes smaller, I guess.
2. Both good points. I'm no expert on how minecraft terrain is generated, I'm just putting the idea out there to see how possible it would be. As for EH, I would occasionally like a mountain without any trees on it.
3. Forest/Taiga: Not sure actually. Good point. Snow: No difference, just that when a biome generates, it has that chance of becoming its snow type. (I would like to see some beta-style snow forests and snowless pine forests)
4. That's to make it match the biome. When the terrain generates, it generates by noise; it doesn't know that an area's going to be, say, an ocean until it gets looked at. So, once it knows it's an ocean, it will generate the flat beaches everyone used to love. Unless, of course, we don't want those beaches anymore.
5. Just to make sure oceans aren't completely barren.
B: Er... yes it will...
4. Here we have same issue as with checking. It will either be ugly or check everything and be slow. Both variants are bad.
5. Again, same as 4.
3. And again, here we have same point as for forests and taigas. It makes no sense, since you will need to make snowy variant of every biome anyway, so you can just have them generating just like other ones.
You know what we need even more.
BRING BACK GARGAMEL!!!!! THE SEED WE ALL LOVED FROM BETA 1.3 TO BETA 1.7
BRING BACK GARGAMEL!!!!! THE SEED WILL ONLY LAST FOR SOME TIME ON THE XBOX
BRING BACK GARGAMEL!!!!! WHO WANTS TO GET A WHOLE XBOX JUST TO GET GARGAMEL?!
BRING BACK GARGAMEL!!!!! WE NEED GARGAMEL BACK! 1.8 AND HIGHER TOOK IT AWAY LITERALLY
BRING BACK GARGAMEL!!!!! IT MAY BE OLD BUT IT IS STRONG
BRING BACK GARGAMEL!!!!! SCREW THESE VERSIONS! I WANT MINECRAFT TO RE-CODE THIS IN IMEDIATTLY!
BRING BACK GARGAMEL!!!!! I WILL MAKE A WHOLE MOD IF GARGAMEL DOESNT EVER COME BACK!
That is our love for gargamel and exciting terrain, not boring flatland, the world type flatland is just like the world type: default now a days!
At least Minecraft 1.3 brought a little bit of exciting terrain back...
Minecraft 1.3 brought NOTHING back. All it did was add large biomes which takes away biome variation.
Yep. Also slightly increased x-hills height. Anyway, all these "Minecraft 1.3 improved terrain" are just placebo effect because chnelog for some snapshot said that it improved terrain.
yah nice job i totally think that terrain should be better like mountains are now just big hills not EXTREME hills and jungles are one of the hilliest biomes take away the trees and its nothing but a few hills and a stone flat and plus there is not enough variety its just either high building or low building theres no even ground yo have to use mods and some people 1 like to play on servers and 2 like vanilla minecraft i hate why everythings so bland at least theres new customizable flat dimension in 1.4.1 soon
I support the changes to overworld map generation the terrain has become too boring however i am oposed to changes to cave generation as these large complexes are far more interesting and better looking than previous iterations. additionally noone even mines in caves anymore unless they happen to find them and there is a large vein of ore most of the good players have moved to grid mining at diamond level.
Why don't you simply make a "better world generations mod"? That would probably make you and many others happy.Why don't you simply make a "better world generations mod"? That would probably make you and many others happy.
Why don't you simply make a "better world generations mod"? That would probably make you and many others happy.
Why don't you simply make a "better world generations mod"? That would probably make you and many others happy.
I take it you missed the "Why we don't just use mods?" section of the original post? Not to mention (excluding the fact that they've already been made) It's not that easy to just "make a mod".
Also, support list has been update again. 8 were added.
~ Shread
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I remember running around when I was new and just cliff jumping for fun cause it was awesome to fall almost the entire map height through overhangs mountains and into trees, but now you can't find a single good mountain worthy of carving a Dwarf kingdom in, and even if you did, you'd probably hit an endless hole. The whole swiss cheese thing. Its really sad, cause a lot of my inspiration for builds came from these terrains, it was so random, yet at the same time oddly uniform. And what bugs me the most, now-a-days you can't find a single waterfall, where as before you could be boating down a calm river and randomly fall to your death. The generator could easily be fixed to please everyone too, they can have a realism generation mode and a fantasy generation mode.
I don't ever remember a time when this could happen...
To have a realistic mode, they'd have to start a new generator from scratch. The current one is still far from realistic. One way to describe it is "failed fantasy."
My thread: Life as a Nomadic Trapper: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1664475-my-life-as-a-nomadic-trapper
Part A: Overworld terrain
Step 1: Terrain first, not biomes.
Currently the way the terrain is generated is the seed determines biomes, and then takes the code for that specific biome and generates the terrain accordingly.
However, since the code is exactly the same, that means that each similar biome is almost exactly the same. The way to change that is to make the terrain generate first - not the biomes.
Of course, there would be some presets - flat areas would have more of a chance to generate next to other flat areas, areas below Y=64 would have more of a chance to generate next to eachother, etc...
*Terrain should be able to generate up to Y=130 to allow for larger mountains
Step 2: Now comes biomes.
Once terrain is generated, the game will look at the terrain and determine biomes accordingly. Here is how it will determine them:
-Large, flattish areas detected: Either forest (55% chance), plains (35% chance), or tundra (10%) will generate.
-However, if a large, flat area is detected near a large area of terrain below Y=64, it will have a 40% chance to be a swamp.
-Areas with medium-sized hills will have a 70% chance of being a desert biome, and a 30% chance to be a forest biome.
-Areas with large-sized hills (the majority of the terrain) will have a 40% chance to be a forest biome, a 40% chance to be an extreme-hills biome, and a 20% chance to be a jungle biome.
-Areas below Y=64 are oceans.
Step 3: Biome specifics.
Here are some changes which should be made:
>Taiga and Tundra should not have snow required to generate in them - instead, all biomes - with some exceptions (shown below), should have a 10% chance to be a snow biome - including forests, plains, and more. Exceptions:
-Jungles
-Deserts
-Swamps
Oceans are not an exception. Haven't you ever heard of the antarctic?
>Pine forests should not generate by themselves - instead, when a forest generates, it should have a 40% chance of being a pine forest.
Step 4: Biomes established, now comes the materials.
Pretty simple really - now the biome-specific materials come. Forests generate trees, swamps generate small islands, oceans shift the terrain around them to be flat for beaches, deserts generate sand and cacti...
Step 5: Rivers, Islands, and generated structures.
Next, rivers generate in biomes. If they are not attached to an ocean, they will generate a small lake at one end. They will no longer be completely flat but will move downwards with the terrain - resulting in waterfalls being able to be generated when a river starts at the top of a mountain.
Islands will generate in oceans by making underwater mountains generate. When an island is generated, there should be a 3% chance of it generating a mushroom island chain instead. Islands should also have a chance to generate next to other islands, forming archipelagos.
Finally, generated structures (villages, etc.) should generate.
Part B: Underground
The underground, currently, is an absolute mess. Absolutely riddled with caves. I suggest a few things to improve on this.
A) Make caves 20% rarer.
C) Make ravines 50% rarer.
D) Make mineshafts 10% rarer, and make them look more like what an actual miner would build - more of an organized format and not just random shafts willy-nilly.
Such "presets" are impossible, everything is done by just noise gen
2. Once terrain is generated... Lag will come. You probably don't know how check is done, and how slow it is.
And, since terrain is generated in chunks, there will be glitches where one chunk is filled with biome, and other chunk is filled with another one.
Why do you need extreme hills? You don't need workarounds if mountains properly generate. And for all other biomes: It doesn't solve main issue: Biomes will still have no variation, since they tend to generate in areas that look same.
3. About chances: And what's the difference between chance of generating taiga instead of forest and having taiga generate just like forest?
Don't make things complicated without need.
Snow idea is awful. You will need to copy each biome for that. Again, what's the difference between this and just having many different snow biomes?
4. Generating islands? Shifting terrain? But you said that all mountains etc are generated at the first step.
5. Same as for 4.
B. 20% rarer? 10% rarer? This will nto make difference. Anyway, there was pnly one change with them in 1.8, we just need to revert it.
1. Then take away the presets? It would just make biomes smaller, I guess.
2. Both good points. I'm no expert on how minecraft terrain is generated, I'm just putting the idea out there to see how possible it would be. As for EH, I would occasionally like a mountain without any trees on it.
3. Forest/Taiga: Not sure actually. Good point. Snow: No difference, just that when a biome generates, it has that chance of becoming its snow type. (I would like to see some beta-style snow forests and snowless pine forests)
4. That's to make it match the biome. When the terrain generates, it generates by noise; it doesn't know that an area's going to be, say, an ocean until it gets looked at. So, once it knows it's an ocean, it will generate the flat beaches everyone used to love. Unless, of course, we don't want those beaches anymore.
5. Just to make sure oceans aren't completely barren.
B: Er... yes it will...
5. Again, same as 4.
3. And again, here we have same point as for forests and taigas. It makes no sense, since you will need to make snowy variant of every biome anyway, so you can just have them generating just like other ones.
BRING BACK GARGAMEL!!!!! THE SEED WE ALL LOVED FROM BETA 1.3 TO BETA 1.7
BRING BACK GARGAMEL!!!!! THE SEED WILL ONLY LAST FOR SOME TIME ON THE XBOX
BRING BACK GARGAMEL!!!!! WHO WANTS TO GET A WHOLE XBOX JUST TO GET GARGAMEL?!
BRING BACK GARGAMEL!!!!! WE NEED GARGAMEL BACK! 1.8 AND HIGHER TOOK IT AWAY LITERALLY
BRING BACK GARGAMEL!!!!! IT MAY BE OLD BUT IT IS STRONG
BRING BACK GARGAMEL!!!!! SCREW THESE VERSIONS! I WANT MINECRAFT TO RE-CODE THIS IN IMEDIATTLY!
BRING BACK GARGAMEL!!!!! I WILL MAKE A WHOLE MOD IF GARGAMEL DOESNT EVER COME BACK!
That is our love for gargamel and exciting terrain, not boring flatland, the world type flatland is just like the world type: default now a days!
At least Minecraft 1.3 brought a little bit of exciting terrain back...
I would survive 32 days in a creeper apocalypse.
Explain. In 1.7.3, you had caves of infinitely possible sizes.
In current gen, you only get seemingly endless caves.
So in this case, 1.7.3's cave gen had everything we have now and MORE.
I take it you missed the "Why we don't just use mods?" section of the original post? Not to mention (excluding the fact that they've already been made) It's not that easy to just "make a mod".
Also, support list has been update again. 8 were added.
~ Shread