The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
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5/2/2011
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Minecraft:
Xolarix
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How about just adding a new world generator in the world options? Call it Fantasy World or something.
Some mods already do this to replicate how the old generator worked.
All that Mojang needs to do is refine their old 1.7 generator a bit and add it in the game. Many people would appreciate it, and it won't be a "forced" thing, as I'm also sure that many people love the new biomes and how flat everything is. After all, it's more realistic.
But for those of us who liked a challenge, and loved the nice, weird generated landscapes of old, they get their nostalgia back.
I remember my first world. I spawned near an overhang, went beneath it, (didn't know the dark was dangerous), and a creeper blew up on me. Later on, I returned there (wasn't easy to find back) and lit everything up, and built my first super-house there (one that was actually bigger than a standard mine or dirthut)
There are no overhangs anymore. No challenges. No landscapes that make you go "WOW" and make you feel tiny.
How about just adding a new world generator in the world options? Call it Fantasy World or something.
Some mods already do this to replicate how the old generator worked.
All that Mojang needs to do is refine their old 1.7 generator a bit and add it in the game. Many people would appreciate it, and it won't be a "forced" thing, as I'm also sure that many people love the new biomes and how flat everything is. After all, it's more realistic.
But for those of us who liked a challenge, and loved the nice, weird generated landscapes of old, they get their nostalgia back.
I remember my first world. I spawned near an overhang, went beneath it, (didn't know the dark was dangerous), and a creeper blew up on me. Later on, I returned there (wasn't easy to find back) and lit everything up, and built my first super-house there (one that was actually bigger than a standard mine or dirthut)
There are no overhangs anymore. No challenges. No landscapes that make you go "WOW" and make you feel tiny.
I would love to have this returned.
This actually could be a possible solution after I've taken a look at it. Many people have suggested this and I think it is high time it is added to the OP. I think this would satisfy both sides of the debate and everyone wins! But no doubt, someone else will find something to complain about hehe.
How about just adding a new world generator in the world options? Call it Fantasy World or something.
Some mods already do this to replicate how the old generator worked.
All that Mojang needs to do is refine their old 1.7 generator a bit and add it in the game. Many people would appreciate it, and it won't be a "forced" thing, as I'm also sure that many people love the new biomes and how flat everything is. After all, it's more realistic.
But for those of us who liked a challenge, and loved the nice, weird generated landscapes of old, they get their nostalgia back.
I remember my first world. I spawned near an overhang, went beneath it, (didn't know the dark was dangerous), and a creeper blew up on me. Later on, I returned there (wasn't easy to find back) and lit everything up, and built my first super-house there (one that was actually bigger than a standard mine or dirthut)
There are no overhangs anymore. No challenges. No landscapes that make you go "WOW" and make you feel tiny.
I would love to have this returned.
I'm still really on the opposing side of adding another option. In this case, they'd have to update both generators for features not to be buggy and that would take some time. With what we're suggesting, realism would still exist, but randomness would exist as well. Everyone is happy in this case. It's not an option but it IS an option at the same time.
In this case...
Don't like the terrain you spawned at? Fine, go explore for a minute or two and you'll find something different. Still don't like it? Keep moving. Everything will be different in every area of every seed.
Honestly I'd like to have terrain that both suggest realism and unrealism. I hate to say it, but people who disagree with this topic thinking we're trying to change the game to benefit only us are the real terrain-nazis.
TL;DR: I'm basically opposing the option of another type of world because it'd require more time to maintain and having an option for every detail of the game just seems wrong. In addition, the different types of terrain found in the regular generation with the changes suggested in this thread would be easily ignorable, as people can move on to a different place. With the current one, the terrain isn't ignorable.
To be honest, wouldn't it be cooler to have a world that looped? Travel east, eventually through a great distance, arrive from west to where you departed. Never ending terrain is too overwhelming. As for the unexisting problems with the current generator, I see just about as many tiny dirt floating islands in your interesting extreme hills biome as the teeth in your mouth, and that's the range of 4 chunks. Gravel atleast fell down! Dirt just stays there looking ugly.
In response to your statement about the old terrain being ugly, I do respect your opinion, but take a few of these factors into consideration: 1. We have new textures to the game. Trees look better, grass looks better, lighting is better, and all the like. We didn't have those back then, so that would downgrade the experience. 2. when is the last time you compared them? Sure you might remember you hated the terrain, but did you ever actually go back and play on it? You might hate it now because of lack of biomes, than everything else. 3. The new terrain gen definitely has problems. I get exposed rockfaces on flat land, and along the edges the grass looks like someone dropped dippin' dots icecream. Not to mention that even with all the flat land, the villages still get messed up, and your probability of finding a good village (one that you can enter the houses easily) are very small. Not just that, but floating gravel mounds still occur and I see them fall when I load the world up. The same for trees and dirt floating in the air. That argument is irrelevant.
Though I know I am only ONE, it does not matter just what YOU want either. So you like the terrain now and hated it before? First off, the terrain wouldn't be like before, especially with the new biomes, because as said time and time again, no one is asking for the 1.7 gen back. No one. We have 100 supporters and counting. The amount of negative comments on this thread compared to the good posts we receive is very small between the two. More people like this than hate it. Now yes, your voice matters, but this isn't, "who wants it and who doesn't?" It's, "who wants it and who wants it?" Persay, 1=You. You do not equal more than 1 vote or support just because you don't like this idea. 1 no does not equal the same as 5 yes's. I'll give you about 15 people who agree with you on SOME parts of your post out of the number of all the supporters of this thread AND the people who posted positively and didn't support.
Just to be clear, your argument is invalid because the generation you hated would not be the one from previous versions. Sure, they should DEVELOP from one of those generators than make a new one, so they don't have to write an entire new one and have lots of bugs, but it won't be that terrain you hate. Don't worry about that.
You are arguing points that I didn't even bring up. But yes I have compared the old generation with the new, I still love the new more. Though still logic will always beat out wishes, all I am trying to do is show that the job of all the great people at Mojang isn't as easy as add this, add that, it is very complex and we should be thankful for the great game that they have given us. I still play the game for natural beauty and not for oh look there is a village. I think that your overreacting because you aren't getting your way.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The redstone is coming, you just have to find it now. Redstone Glory
You are arguing points that I didn't even bring up. But yes I have compared the old generation with the new, I still love the new more. Though still logic will always beat out wishes, all I am trying to do is show that the job of all the great people at Mojang isn't as easy as add this, add that, it is very complex and we should be thankful for the great game that they have given us. I still play the game for natural beauty and not for oh look there is a village. I think that your overreacting because you aren't getting your way.
Actually, the statement that you'd made was less then logical. Do you honestly believe that Mojang has the suggestion board here, assuming that every one of their 6,000,000 players are going to be knowledgeable in C++ coding and expect everyone who makes a suggestion to just "Hand them the coding" for it? That's a very narrow minded statement and you need to rethink your own "logic" before you go on a tangit insulting others who actually do know what the hell they are talking about.
As for Mojang, I totally agree with you. Their staffs' number are no more then you could squeeze into a mini-van (Quoted from another thread) and they have 6,000,000 players so obviously it's not going to be easy 20 or so people trying to satisfy the needs and wants of 6,000,000 others. We are not demanding they go through with this change, we are not unappreciative as I have stated already that I love the current generator I just feel it could use some enhancements, and we, by a long shot, are not "Whining because we don't get our way". If this suggestion does gain the attention of Mojang and they go through with it, fantastic! If not, then so be it we will just live with it.
The point is, your first statement was pretty irrational and a bit insulting to say the least. And if you think the current generator is fine the way it is, that is awesome! could you please state why so we will know? Show some screenshots anything? Support your claims before you jump into a thread insulting and demanding that we create our own coding to send to Mojang.
Why can't we have an option in world creation so it could be the pre-1.8 generation or the generation we use today for minecraft.The people who like the old generation win. The people who like the present generation win.
Snapshot 12w21a reverted the smoothing of the more jagged parts of the extreme hills generator. Take a look:
(Cross post from 12w21a discussion) The terrain in Extreme Hills has been reverted a bit. Someone more familiar with the pre-1.8 days can weigh in and share whether this is addressing all the noise about bland geography?
I couldn't agree more. I loved those huge massive overhangs, and the fact that they had TREES on them. Also, ravines and cave systems should be made less common. I hate digging my own mine and ending up intersecting with a huge cave system. Caves should be rarer and ravines should be mostly underground and less common. I support this because I have wanted the crazy old world generation back since 1.8 came out.
You are asking questions which all can be answered by the very paragraph that you quoted. I not only ask you to read the original thread and ask obviously answered questions but I also ask, kindly and with the utmost respect, attempt to comprehend it to the best of your ability. I'm not making any insults towards anyones' intelligence I'm simply stating that most of the questions answered on here are repetitive and can be answered from previous posts.
No, I am asking you to clean up the OP to say simply and clearly what it is you're asking for. I've been watching the to-and-fro on this thread and give you this feedback simply and clearly:
1. Not everyone offering support wants what you want
2. What you want isn't clearly stated.
It is talked around in multiple posts and it's probably clear in your head, but the requirement is at the point where the summary you added to the OP is not unambiguous (yet). I offered an edit, of your own summary, in your own words suggesting a clearer approach. Why not re-read what I wrote instead?
Mojang are crowdsourcing everything from testing to requirements gathering. As the Emerald flip flop shows there is a real risk we will end up with a result that wasn't expected if it's not clear what the community wants. Just clean it up a little.
No, I am asking you to clean up the OP to say simply and clearly what it is you're asking for. I've been watching the to-and-fro on this thread and give you this feedback simply and clearly:
1. Not everyone offering support wants what you want
2. What you want isn't clearly stated.
It is talked around in multiple posts and it's probably clear in your head, but the requirement is at the point where the summary you added to the OP is not unambiguous (yet). I offered an edit, of your own summary, in your own words suggesting a clearer approach. Why not re-read what I wrote instead?
Mojang are crowdsourcing everything from testing to requirements gathering. As the Emerald flip flop shows there is a real risk we will end up with a result that wasn't expected if it's not clear what the community wants. Just clean it up a little.
If it's not broken then don't fix it. If you cannot comprehend what the OP is saying that is your own problem as all of our supporters understand it fully. They all do want the same thing as all the players who have supported the thread and elaborated on why they support made it very clear that they understand fully what the thread is asking for. So I am sorry, sir, you are mistaken. Maybe they took the time to read the entire post. Maybe the TL;DR is unclear.
EDIT -----
TL;DR has been updated. If you still cannot understand what it is asking then I don't know what to tell you.
Ok, this is heading in the right direction. Can you be even more explicit? Three to five key points called out in simple language would help a lot. I like your intention to turn down the heat a little and get the minecart back on the rails, however I need to share that this pitch is still waaay too complicated for the casual punter, and I wonder what the Mojangs are taking away from it (Jeb_: "people have complained about terrain generation not being interesting enough so I have taken Terrain out. Enjoy your flatlands folks!")
( And I really don't think 'realism' is a problem Minecraft has )
Is this roughly right (with clarifying questions):
What do we want?
1. More interesting terrain. more breathtaking and jaw dropping land masses to appear more often then they currently do
2. add height variation to all biomes in 1.2.5 ( so... Keeping the varied Biomes is OK? What exactly does this mean? Is it the cliffs and other things list posted recently? Is it like extreme biomes - extreme swamp, extreme plains, extreme ocean? )
3. have caves sytems actually come to an end eventually, and appear less often (as well as mineshafts)
What don't we want?
4. floating islands of gravel and random jagged dirt and sand hills in the middle of a snowy plain ( actually I think this is what some people are asking for, because your original post strongly hinted at this: " seeds are now useless because ever since the 1.8 update"
5. Terrain generator from 1.7
6. To be accused of being nostalgic.
When do we want it?
Whenever Jeb And co. get around to it.
There is a valid argument and request in here. What is it?
???
My suggestion is to just add this to your OP and get rid of the waffle and you're done.
WHAT WE WANT:
1. More interesting terrain; More breathtaking and jaw dropping land masses to appear more often then they currently do
2. We want extreme mountains and overhangs to have the possibility to neatly generate randomly in all biomes. We want neat, uniform, and NICE land masses to appear RANDOMLY in all biomes equally.
3. The majority of cave systems and Mineshafts actually come to an end eventually, and appear less often. Seemingly endless caves should be a nice find.
WHAT WE DO NOT WANT:
4. We do not want chewed up and spit out floating islands and jagged gravel spikes sticking up out of a flat surface randomly - no eyesores like that.
5. We do not want the Terrain Generator from 1.7
WHEN WE WANT IT:
In the next release please.
My suggestion is to just add this to your OP and get rid of the waffle and you're done.
WHAT WE WANT:
1. More interesting terrain; More breathtaking and jaw dropping land masses to appear more often then they currently do
2. We want extreme mountains and overhangs to have the possibility to neatly generate randomly in all biomes. We want neat, uniform, and NICE land masses to appear RANDOMLY in all biomes equally.
3. The majority of cave systems and Mineshafts actually come to an end eventually, and appear less often. Seemingly endless caves should be a nice find.
WHAT WE DO NOT WANT:
4. We do not want chewed up and spit out floating islands and jagged gravel spikes sticking up out of a flat surface randomly - no eyesores like that.
5. We do not want the Terrain Generator from 1.7
WHEN WE WANT IT:
In the next release please.
You are welcome.
I don't really understand what Shreads means by saying you don't understand the OP. I've said in my posts (more or less) that yes, we want that height variation spread out equally and not spammed together, and not have the floating blocks swimming around everywhere (well, you said that part). He's also said that we DON'T want the 1.7 generator back, that it serves as an example, and that you acknowledged. The cave systems and mineshafts have been a point as well, which you seem to understand. So I really don't understand what the problem is. Anyway, the next release is too close. We won't be seeing this implemented in 1.3, but possibly 1.3.1? Keep posting guys!
2. We want extreme mountains and overhangs to have the possibility to neatly generate randomly in all biomes. We want neat, uniform, and NICE land masses to appear RANDOMLY in all biomes equally.
but I can't say I don't want jaggy sloppy mountains spammed together. I do want them, but at the same time I do want those neat uniform mountains.
This is all about not limiting the terrain, and allowing these sloppy wet mountains to form in our worlds would increase the number of possibilities in our worlds, making each seed even more unique.
Honestly, I couldn't care about neatness or how aesthetically pleasing a natural landform appears to be, but I agree that this type of neatness should exist in every world. Simple enough in this concept, if you find sloppy spammed mountains, you can explore for neater - more uniform ones.
I can see why people would want to disagree with me, but let's all face it. It's Minecraft - known (or was) for its random terrain generator.
When I played Minecraft 1.8, I loved to explore. I was so busy exloring that I was far from my spawn point before clicked a single block. These days, Minecraft's terrain is boring like Superflat, except that it's harder to build big castles. If Jeb hears about this, you are a hero!
I don't really understand what Shreads means by saying you don't understand the OP. I've said in my posts (more or less) that yes, we want that height variation spread out equally and not spammed together, and not have the floating blocks swimming around everywhere (well, you said that part). He's also said that we DON'T want the 1.7 generator back, that it serves as an example, and that you acknowledged. The cave systems and mineshafts have been a point as well, which you seem to understand. So I really don't understand what the problem is. Anyway, the next release is too close. We won't be seeing this implemented in 1.3, but possibly 1.3.1? Keep posting guys!
That is my point exactly. He is stating that he understands the op fully. And you would agree that my TL;DR gets the point across and is easily understandable yet he's asking me to improve it? He is asking me to fix something that is not broken and to be honest I am a bit offended by it. There is no vague point in the summary if you'd read it and aren't a complete idiot then it's easily comprehensible.
Other then that, you guys are awesome, let's just chill with the tension in this thread and get this thing back on the road.
Thank you, happycat.
Edit -----
As a sign of my willingness to put all of this behind us and ease up the heat in this thread: I went ahead and added the points to the main post for those who do not understand fully the rest of the post. I do hope that this will break a bit of the tension as, to be honest, I'd like to get this point across to all of Minecraft as I'd really like to see this change take place.
Some mods already do this to replicate how the old generator worked.
All that Mojang needs to do is refine their old 1.7 generator a bit and add it in the game. Many people would appreciate it, and it won't be a "forced" thing, as I'm also sure that many people love the new biomes and how flat everything is. After all, it's more realistic.
But for those of us who liked a challenge, and loved the nice, weird generated landscapes of old, they get their nostalgia back.
I remember my first world. I spawned near an overhang, went beneath it, (didn't know the dark was dangerous), and a creeper blew up on me. Later on, I returned there (wasn't easy to find back) and lit everything up, and built my first super-house there (one that was actually bigger than a standard mine or dirthut)
There are no overhangs anymore. No challenges. No landscapes that make you go "WOW" and make you feel tiny.
I would love to have this returned.
This actually could be a possible solution after I've taken a look at it. Many people have suggested this and I think it is high time it is added to the OP. I think this would satisfy both sides of the debate and everyone wins! But no doubt, someone else will find something to complain about hehe.
Good thoughts!
- Shreads
I'm still really on the opposing side of adding another option. In this case, they'd have to update both generators for features not to be buggy and that would take some time. With what we're suggesting, realism would still exist, but randomness would exist as well. Everyone is happy in this case. It's not an option but it IS an option at the same time.
In this case...
Don't like the terrain you spawned at? Fine, go explore for a minute or two and you'll find something different. Still don't like it? Keep moving. Everything will be different in every area of every seed.
Honestly I'd like to have terrain that both suggest realism and unrealism. I hate to say it, but people who disagree with this topic thinking we're trying to change the game to benefit only us are the real terrain-nazis.
TL;DR: I'm basically opposing the option of another type of world because it'd require more time to maintain and having an option for every detail of the game just seems wrong. In addition, the different types of terrain found in the regular generation with the changes suggested in this thread would be easily ignorable, as people can move on to a different place. With the current one, the terrain isn't ignorable.
You are arguing points that I didn't even bring up. But yes I have compared the old generation with the new, I still love the new more. Though still logic will always beat out wishes, all I am trying to do is show that the job of all the great people at Mojang isn't as easy as add this, add that, it is very complex and we should be thankful for the great game that they have given us. I still play the game for natural beauty and not for oh look there is a village. I think that your overreacting because you aren't getting your way.
Redstone Glory
Actually, the statement that you'd made was less then logical. Do you honestly believe that Mojang has the suggestion board here, assuming that every one of their 6,000,000 players are going to be knowledgeable in C++ coding and expect everyone who makes a suggestion to just "Hand them the coding" for it? That's a very narrow minded statement and you need to rethink your own "logic" before you go on a tangit insulting others who actually do know what the hell they are talking about.
As for Mojang, I totally agree with you. Their staffs' number are no more then you could squeeze into a mini-van (Quoted from another thread) and they have 6,000,000 players so obviously it's not going to be easy 20 or so people trying to satisfy the needs and wants of 6,000,000 others. We are not demanding they go through with this change, we are not unappreciative as I have stated already that I love the current generator I just feel it could use some enhancements, and we, by a long shot, are not "Whining because we don't get our way". If this suggestion does gain the attention of Mojang and they go through with it, fantastic! If not, then so be it we will just live with it.
The point is, your first statement was pretty irrational and a bit insulting to say the least. And if you think the current generator is fine the way it is, that is awesome! could you please state why so we will know? Show some screenshots anything? Support your claims before you jump into a thread insulting and demanding that we create our own coding to send to Mojang.
Honestly that is just stupid.
- Shreads
In snapshot 12w22a the adventure map mode is enabled not from the world creation option screen, but from the cheat mode command line:
/gamemode 2
... As summarised in the release post. http://www.mojang.com/2012/05/minecraft-snapshot-week-22/
Back on topic, the terrain smoothing has been reduced ( i found free floating single blocks again in the lava levels too )... And this prior post:
EDIT: and this just in from Reddit user Ervhal on 12w22a:
Thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/uehch/the_column_mountainseed_in_comment/
No, I am asking you to clean up the OP to say simply and clearly what it is you're asking for. I've been watching the to-and-fro on this thread and give you this feedback simply and clearly:
1. Not everyone offering support wants what you want
2. What you want isn't clearly stated.
It is talked around in multiple posts and it's probably clear in your head, but the requirement is at the point where the summary you added to the OP is not unambiguous (yet). I offered an edit, of your own summary, in your own words suggesting a clearer approach. Why not re-read what I wrote instead?
Mojang are crowdsourcing everything from testing to requirements gathering. As the Emerald flip flop shows there is a real risk we will end up with a result that wasn't expected if it's not clear what the community wants. Just clean it up a little.
If it's not broken then don't fix it. If you cannot comprehend what the OP is saying that is your own problem as all of our supporters understand it fully. They all do want the same thing as all the players who have supported the thread and elaborated on why they support made it very clear that they understand fully what the thread is asking for. So I am sorry, sir, you are mistaken. Maybe they took the time to read the entire post. Maybe the TL;DR is unclear.
EDIT -----
TL;DR has been updated. If you still cannot understand what it is asking then I don't know what to tell you.
Bumpedy bump.
Well if this is your way of saying you still cannot understand the OP, then I apologize. Would have been nice to have you supporting us!
Good day,
- Shreads
My suggestion is to just add this to your OP and get rid of the waffle and you're done.
You are welcome.
I don't really understand what Shreads means by saying you don't understand the OP. I've said in my posts (more or less) that yes, we want that height variation spread out equally and not spammed together, and not have the floating blocks swimming around everywhere (well, you said that part). He's also said that we DON'T want the 1.7 generator back, that it serves as an example, and that you acknowledged. The cave systems and mineshafts have been a point as well, which you seem to understand. So I really don't understand what the problem is. Anyway, the next release is too close. We won't be seeing this implemented in 1.3, but possibly 1.3.1? Keep posting guys!
but I can't say I don't want jaggy sloppy mountains spammed together. I do want them, but at the same time I do want those neat uniform mountains.
This is all about not limiting the terrain, and allowing these sloppy wet mountains to form in our worlds would increase the number of possibilities in our worlds, making each seed even more unique.
Honestly, I couldn't care about neatness or how aesthetically pleasing a natural landform appears to be, but I agree that this type of neatness should exist in every world. Simple enough in this concept, if you find sloppy spammed mountains, you can explore for neater - more uniform ones.
I can see why people would want to disagree with me, but let's all face it. It's Minecraft - known (or was) for its random terrain generator.
That is my point exactly. He is stating that he understands the op fully. And you would agree that my TL;DR gets the point across and is easily understandable yet he's asking me to improve it? He is asking me to fix something that is not broken and to be honest I am a bit offended by it. There is no vague point in the summary if you'd read it and aren't a complete idiot then it's easily comprehensible.
Other then that, you guys are awesome, let's just chill with the tension in this thread and get this thing back on the road.
Thank you, happycat.
Edit -----
As a sign of my willingness to put all of this behind us and ease up the heat in this thread: I went ahead and added the points to the main post for those who do not understand fully the rest of the post. I do hope that this will break a bit of the tension as, to be honest, I'd like to get this point across to all of Minecraft as I'd really like to see this change take place.
Timecraft!
Love it.