When Potions were announced I was very excited about the alchemy and the system behind it. However I was kind of disappointed, where there weren't enough potions. In code there are more potion effects, than there are potions and still they haven't fully implemented them. (Jump boost, resistance, Nausea and more are already in the code, but not implemented)They should be properly implemented in the game, but this is thread is not completely about that. I have some ideas that would not only expand the current system, but also tweak it's effects.
This thread contains: 1. New potion ideas. 2. Expanding the system. 3. Existing effect modifications.
1. New potion ideas:
1) Burst potion:
Upon drinking it normally, you would explode like a creeper (You die and leave a explosion). However as a splash potion it would simply be kind of like a grenade- small explosion (Simply re-use the ghast-ball explosion, or something like that). Increased potency would increase the damage and explosion radius. It would be brewed using the fire charge (since firecharge is kind of expensive, I consider this balanced)
2) Purity potion:
We know that drinking milk removes all potion effects you have on you. Drinking from a bucket seems silly to me, so how about we can use that milk efficiently to create a purity potion. (Simply- debuff potion, that removes your current effects) It would also make you immune against potion effects for 3-8 seconds.
2. Expanding the system.
Currently in brewing we have basically 2 types of potions. Basic and advanced. Basic potions are, well basic. The advanced potions are the ones with extended time or increased potency (Redstone and glowstone). I think there should one more advanced option: Distilled potions.
Distilled potions are quite simple: Multiple effect potions. You would use a water bottle to "brew" your current potion into a distilled potion.There is a 60% chance that you will succeed to dissolve the potion (the failures will become "hazard" potions, who have no effect and pretty much are useless). You could use the distilled potion to brew further and have a additional effect. You can only dissolve the potion to a maximum of 2 times. (Maximum amount of effects on one potion -3). To slightly balance this, the potion effects on distilled ones are 10% shorter in duration and cannot be extended or prolonged using redstone or glowstone. Explained in a picture here:
Example of using this: I have a basic Regeneration potion. I use water to make it distilled. I succeed and now it is a distilled regeneration potion. The regeneration effect is 10% shorter but I can add another effect. I add sugar to make it into a Regeneration-speed potion, both effects are 10% shorter. I want to dissolve it one more time, however this time I fail. I get 3 useless hazard potions that just waste inventory space. Oh well, that is the risk of distilled potions.
3. Existing effect modifications:
These are other ideas on how the rest of the potions should be implemented:
1.) Nausea - When splashed against a mob, The mob's AI gets "stupider" As in: It doesn't walk around walls and sometimes goes the wrong way and possibly other behaviour.
2.) Haste potion (Increased mining speed) would be brewed using cocoa beans, and the mining fatigue potion would be made by adding fermented spider eye to the haste one.
3.) Blindness- When splashed against a monster it's field of vision decreases, and If you are far enough it loses it's "aggro" on you while under the influence of this effect.
Tl;dr:
Multiple effect potions, please implement the existing potions, and 2 new potion ideas.
That's pretty much it for my ideas. If none ideas would pass, I atleast want Jeb to properly implement the already existing potion effects.... So, what do you guys think and what are your ideas?
Nice! I completely support this idea! As I'm not a huge brewer myself, I do agree that it is too bland and boring. They do need to add stuff like this to it!
Distilled? Maybe, it's a good idea. I could of sworn there was talk about them being a little more complex and possibly having drawbacks (i.e. negative effects for mostly positive potions and vice versa), along with high tiers and more potions than we got. I really hope a good solid potion update is in the future. We really need to see an expansion in that part of the game, along with oceans (easily one of the most boring biomes) and the Nether.
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"I don't plan to add a new dimension at the moment. It's just to performance heavy on servers, and the current dimensions need more attention before we start adding new ones." < Yeah, like biomes or actual varied terrain in the nether. Nether ruins didn't do the trick at all.
Thanks for the feedback so far, guys....
The ideas presented are just general ideas, where tweaking the numbers and balancing is subject of balance. Those are just some example numbers.
I understand that some have doubts regarding the distilled potions, as it is quite a touchy balance subject.
This is a pretty good idea. Now, me, I still regret that we didn't get the original potion brewing system (AFAIK) Jeb designed. I rather liked the idea of throwing a bunch of ingredients into a pot and hoping that something good comes out. The current system honestly doesn't feel as fun to me. Perhaps this is because, on some level, I like the idea of potions having side-effects. Neither the current system nor the proposed one have any chance of making potions that aren't as good as they could be, and while some people might like it that way, I think it balances things a little when you have to put a bit more effort in to get certain results, or make do with things that are easy to make but carry drawbacks.
This is a pretty good idea. Now, me, I still regret that we didn't get the original potion brewing system (AFAIK) Jeb designed. I rather liked the idea of throwing a bunch of ingredients into a pot and hoping that something good comes out. The current system honestly doesn't feel as fun to me. Perhaps this is because, on some level, I like the idea of potions having side-effects. Neither the current system nor the proposed one have any chance of making potions that aren't as good as they could be, and while some people might like it that way, I think it balances things a little when you have to put a bit more effort in to get certain results, or make do with things that are easy to make but carry drawbacks.
Thanks for the feedback.
Well, there wasn't much wrong with the original system. The current system we have is 1 ingredient (most of the time) per potion, where the original idea was mixing different ingredients for different effects, but you could make it instantly without brewing time. Which one you would like better is a matter of opinion. The original system had multiple- effect potions, where some potions would have drawbacks and to successfully create a potion you had to be careful when and what ingredient you would add... (I wanted that, but alas...)
I wanted to bring attention, that the brewing in game was implemented half-way and it wasn't complete to begin with. It could totally expand, where you could use cauldrons to create more complex ingredients and more weirder potions. There is room to expand this game mechanic and I want to see it evolve.
If not evolve, then at least finish the damn potions. (Yes, I'm looking at you, Jeb)
This is a pretty good idea. Now, me, I still regret that we didn't get the original potion brewing system (AFAIK) Jeb designed. I rather liked the idea of throwing a bunch of ingredients into a pot and hoping that something good comes out. The current system honestly doesn't feel as fun to me. Perhaps this is because, on some level, I like the idea of potions having side-effects. Neither the current system nor the proposed one have any chance of making potions that aren't as good as they could be, and while some people might like it that way, I think it balances things a little when you have to put a bit more effort in to get certain results, or make do with things that are easy to make but carry drawbacks.
I was quite disappointed when I found out they dumbed it down. You can get all the positive and (negative) potions relatively fast, once you have all the ingredients needed. How is that supposed to be fun? Some potions should be harder to make (and not just when comes to gathering ingredients), while some might even have drawbacks. (like a slow potion that makes zombies fire resistant or do more damage) I'm still not sure on distilling, but anything to make a better and more complex system. The less experienced players can keep their easier potions, but more advanced potions (especially stuff like Tiers 3&4) should be made like this or the original way.
Besides, it's not like we're all meant to figure out how to make everything in the game. (Redstone freaks can make amazing stuff, but the average players (like me) often fail at even simple machines.)
"I don't plan to add a new dimension at the moment. It's just to performance heavy on servers, and the current dimensions need more attention before we start adding new ones." < Yeah, like biomes or actual varied terrain in the nether. Nether ruins didn't do the trick at all.
My idea for combo potions is putting two potions in the cauldron, then taking them back. Each bottle will have half of each. Also, I think fermented spider eyes should be the inverter, making any potion negative, or aking a negative potion positive, examples:
Fire Resistance -> Combustion
Purity -> Randomness(random effect potion)
Burst -> Instant Health
Jumping -> Heavy
Blindness -> Night Vision
Poison -> Purity
My idea for combo potions is putting two potions in the cauldron, then taking them back. Each bottle will have half of each. Also, I think fermented spider eyes should be the inverter, making any potion negative, or aking a negative potion positive, examples:
Fire Resistance -> Combustion
Purity -> Randomness(random effect potion)
Burst -> Instant Health
Jumping -> Heavy
Blindness -> Night Vision
Poison -> Purity
I think the twisting of the effects (or negative-ing?, is that a word?) by using fermented spider eyes already exist in the game, where speed->slow, health-> damage, etc... I disagree on the fact that you could use the eye to make a positive potion. It seems to be more plausible for it to be the "corrupting" ingredient, than just a simple reverse ingredient. Also: What would the effect "heavy" do? Please elaborate.
I do like your idea regarding the cauldron and the potion mixing... That seems interesting.....
Perhaps allowing a potion to sit in a cauldron for a certain amount of time would allow you to receive a distilled potion upon drawing it back into a bottle? Perhaps using flint and steel on a cauldron could initiate a distillation process that takes a certain amount of time? The cauldron bottom could appear to glow red with heat for a good while, slowly reverting to it's normal appearance to inform you that your distillation is complete. To add an element of skill(?) to this mechanic, perhaps it could be made so that potions must be taken out before the cauldron cools down completely or you receive a worthless 'diluted potion' item. Cauldron GUIs not necessarily necessary.
To add on to my combing potions in a cauldron idea, if you combine a potion with water, you get two distilled potions.There needs to be more modifiers. Fermented spider eyes should get weakness, so we can give something else inversion.(Soul Sand?)
Perhaps allowing a potion to sit in a cauldron for a certain amount of time would allow you to receive a distilled potion upon drawing it back into a bottle? Perhaps using flint and steel on a cauldron could initiate a distillation process that takes a certain amount of time? The cauldron bottom could appear to glow red with heat for a good while, slowly reverting to it's normal appearance to inform you that your distillation is complete. To add an element of skill(?) to this mechanic, perhaps it could be made so that potions must be taken out before the cauldron cools down completely or you receive a worthless 'diluted potion' item. Cauldron GUIs not necessarily necessary.
Tossing those ideas out there.
This is a pretty good idea regarding the distillation where it does take a bit of effort and skill to execute, but it isn't too complicated to overwhelm the player. The idea in general seems pretty good, but perhaps some tweaking or change should be done.
Cauldrons at the moment are pretty much useless, but they could become a integral part of the brewing/alchemy system... There should be more thinking done regarding the implementation and how it would affect the gameplay.
First of all, I think that the idea of improving the alchemy system is good, but I'm not sure if this suggestion is the best way to do it.
Second, I don't think you're using the term "distill" properly. I'm not trying to be a jerk about it, but it confused me for awhile. Combining a potion with water is _diluting_ the potion. Not distilling. Distilling is the the process of making a something more potent (like alcohol drinks are distilled).
So, in the spirit of your suggestion, I'll make my own counter suggestion that uses your core idea.
Two new mechanics: Dilution and Distilling
Dilution: Combine two potions of different types. The results will be two potions each with the effects of both the original potions, but the duration or effect is reduced by half.
This means you end up with the same number of potions you started with. Mechanically, it's no stronger than the original potions, but functionally it _could_ be more convenient to the player. For example, if you like to use strength and speed potions, you could combine them with dilution and have just have the resulting potion on the hot bar for easier use.
Distilling: Combine two identical potions. You receive just one potion in return, but the potion has double effect or duration (random, player, whatever).
In this case, you end up with fewer potions, but each one is twice as potent. I'm more inclined to say the distilling should increase the duration rather than improve the effect because then it doesn't alter the power balance of the game.
Combination: Yes, combining the dilution and distilling process should be an option. Not only does it really let the player customize their potions, it also seems like a much more intuitive process. And, as an added bonus, it seems to fit my preconceptions for what alchemy is like.
Final note - I think that for this system to really be used, the current alchemy system would need to be reworked a little. With the distilling addition, level 2 and extended potions become somewhat redundant and unnecessarily complex.
First of all, I think that the idea of improving the alchemy system is good, but I'm not sure if this suggestion is the best way to do it.
Second, I don't think you're using the term "distill" properly. I'm not trying to be a jerk about it, but it confused me for awhile. Combining a potion with water is _diluting_ the potion. Not distilling. Distilling is the the process of making a something more potent (like alcohol drinks are distilled).
What I had in mind was that heating the potion in the cauldron would split up the potent, and less potent parts. If you scoop it back up in time and you'll end up with a distilled potion. (With the implication being that doesn't last as long because there is less potion content in the bottle...) Wait too long and the potent parts will have evaporated, leaving you with a diluted potion.
Anyway, I kind of feel that there's not enough work with just combining potions to get better potions, but sometimes simplicity is better, so I'll withhold criticism for now.
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What I had in mind was that heating the potion in the cauldron would split up the potent, and less potent parts. If you scoop it back up in time and you'll end up with a distilled potion. (With the implication being that doesn't last as long because there is less potion content in the bottle...) Wait too long and the potent parts will have evaporated, leaving you with a diluted potion.
Anyway, I kind of feel that there's not enough work with just combining potions to get better potions, but sometimes simplicity is better, so I'll withhold criticism for now.
I think I see where you're coming from now, though I still think the terminology is a little off I'm not going to harp on it though because your point is clear.
Anyway, I _do_ think simplicity is better - especially in MineCraft. Never make things more complicated then they need to be just to have extra complexity. Additionally, I dislike randomness (enchanting - I'm looking at you!) so I don't think there should be a random chance to make or ruin a potion.
My ideal alchemy system is simply, intuitive, non-random and, most importantly, fun.
This thread contains:
1. New potion ideas.
2. Expanding the system.
3. Existing effect modifications.
1. New potion ideas:
1) Burst potion:
Upon drinking it normally, you would explode like a creeper (You die and leave a explosion). However as a splash potion it would simply be kind of like a grenade- small explosion (Simply re-use the ghast-ball explosion, or something like that). Increased potency would increase the damage and explosion radius. It would be brewed using the fire charge (since firecharge is kind of expensive, I consider this balanced)
2) Purity potion:
We know that drinking milk removes all potion effects you have on you. Drinking from a bucket seems silly to me, so how about we can use that milk efficiently to create a purity potion. (Simply- debuff potion, that removes your current effects) It would also make you immune against potion effects for 3-8 seconds.
2. Expanding the system.
Currently in brewing we have basically 2 types of potions. Basic and advanced. Basic potions are, well basic. The advanced potions are the ones with extended time or increased potency (Redstone and glowstone). I think there should one more advanced option: Distilled potions.
Distilled potions are quite simple: Multiple effect potions. You would use a water bottle to "brew" your current potion into a distilled potion.There is a 60% chance that you will succeed to dissolve the potion (the failures will become "hazard" potions, who have no effect and pretty much are useless). You could use the distilled potion to brew further and have a additional effect. You can only dissolve the potion to a maximum of 2 times. (Maximum amount of effects on one potion -3). To slightly balance this, the potion effects on distilled ones are 10% shorter in duration and cannot be extended or prolonged using redstone or glowstone. Explained in a picture here:
Example of using this: I have a basic Regeneration potion. I use water to make it distilled. I succeed and now it is a distilled regeneration potion. The regeneration effect is 10% shorter but I can add another effect. I add sugar to make it into a Regeneration-speed potion, both effects are 10% shorter. I want to dissolve it one more time, however this time I fail. I get 3 useless hazard potions that just waste inventory space. Oh well, that is the risk of distilled potions.
3. Existing effect modifications:
These are other ideas on how the rest of the potions should be implemented:
1.) Nausea - When splashed against a mob, The mob's AI gets "stupider" As in: It doesn't walk around walls and sometimes goes the wrong way and possibly other behaviour.
2.) Haste potion (Increased mining speed) would be brewed using cocoa beans, and the mining fatigue potion would be made by adding fermented spider eye to the haste one.
3.) Blindness- When splashed against a monster it's field of vision decreases, and If you are far enough it loses it's "aggro" on you while under the influence of this effect.
Tl;dr:
Multiple effect potions, please implement the existing potions, and 2 new potion ideas.
That's pretty much it for my ideas. If none ideas would pass, I atleast want Jeb to properly implement the already existing potion effects.... So, what do you guys think and what are your ideas?
The Boys!
The ideas presented are just general ideas, where tweaking the numbers and balancing is subject of balance. Those are just some example numbers.
I understand that some have doubts regarding the distilled potions, as it is quite a touchy balance subject.
P.S. Should I bother adding a poll or no?
Thanks for the feedback.
Well, there wasn't much wrong with the original system. The current system we have is 1 ingredient (most of the time) per potion, where the original idea was mixing different ingredients for different effects, but you could make it instantly without brewing time. Which one you would like better is a matter of opinion. The original system had multiple- effect potions, where some potions would have drawbacks and to successfully create a potion you had to be careful when and what ingredient you would add... (I wanted that, but alas...)
I wanted to bring attention, that the brewing in game was implemented half-way and it wasn't complete to begin with. It could totally expand, where you could use cauldrons to create more complex ingredients and more weirder potions. There is room to expand this game mechanic and I want to see it evolve.
If not evolve, then at least finish the damn potions. (Yes, I'm looking at you, Jeb)
I was quite disappointed when I found out they dumbed it down. You can get all the positive and (negative) potions relatively fast, once you have all the ingredients needed. How is that supposed to be fun? Some potions should be harder to make (and not just when comes to gathering ingredients), while some might even have drawbacks. (like a slow potion that makes zombies fire resistant or do more damage) I'm still not sure on distilling, but anything to make a better and more complex system. The less experienced players can keep their easier potions, but more advanced potions (especially stuff like Tiers 3&4) should be made like this or the original way.
Besides, it's not like we're all meant to figure out how to make everything in the game. (Redstone freaks can make amazing stuff, but the average players (like me) often fail at even simple machines.)
Bump* for those who missed this.
Fire Resistance -> Combustion
Purity -> Randomness(random effect potion)
Burst -> Instant Health
Jumping -> Heavy
Blindness -> Night Vision
Poison -> Purity
I think the twisting of the effects (or negative-ing?, is that a word?) by using fermented spider eyes already exist in the game, where speed->slow, health-> damage, etc... I disagree on the fact that you could use the eye to make a positive potion. It seems to be more plausible for it to be the "corrupting" ingredient, than just a simple reverse ingredient. Also: What would the effect "heavy" do? Please elaborate.
I do like your idea regarding the cauldron and the potion mixing... That seems interesting.....
Tossing those ideas out there.
Enter that and you'll score one hundred thousand rupees for us both, along with a spiffy card!
This is a pretty good idea regarding the distillation where it does take a bit of effort and skill to execute, but it isn't too complicated to overwhelm the player. The idea in general seems pretty good, but perhaps some tweaking or change should be done.
Cauldrons at the moment are pretty much useless, but they could become a integral part of the brewing/alchemy system... There should be more thinking done regarding the implementation and how it would affect the gameplay.
So does enchanting. Fix pl0x
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Second, I don't think you're using the term "distill" properly. I'm not trying to be a jerk about it, but it confused me for awhile. Combining a potion with water is _diluting_ the potion. Not distilling. Distilling is the the process of making a something more potent (like alcohol drinks are distilled).
So, in the spirit of your suggestion, I'll make my own counter suggestion that uses your core idea.
Two new mechanics:
Dilution and Distilling
Dilution: Combine two potions of different types. The results will be two potions each with the effects of both the original potions, but the duration or effect is reduced by half.
This means you end up with the same number of potions you started with. Mechanically, it's no stronger than the original potions, but functionally it _could_ be more convenient to the player. For example, if you like to use strength and speed potions, you could combine them with dilution and have just have the resulting potion on the hot bar for easier use.
Distilling: Combine two identical potions. You receive just one potion in return, but the potion has double effect or duration (random, player, whatever).
In this case, you end up with fewer potions, but each one is twice as potent. I'm more inclined to say the distilling should increase the duration rather than improve the effect because then it doesn't alter the power balance of the game.
Combination: Yes, combining the dilution and distilling process should be an option. Not only does it really let the player customize their potions, it also seems like a much more intuitive process. And, as an added bonus, it seems to fit my preconceptions for what alchemy is like.
Final note - I think that for this system to really be used, the current alchemy system would need to be reworked a little. With the distilling addition, level 2 and extended potions become somewhat redundant and unnecessarily complex.
Anyway, I kind of feel that there's not enough work with just combining potions to get better potions, but sometimes simplicity is better, so I'll withhold criticism for now.
Enter that and you'll score one hundred thousand rupees for us both, along with a spiffy card!
I think I see where you're coming from now, though I still think the terminology is a little off I'm not going to harp on it though because your point is clear.
Anyway, I _do_ think simplicity is better - especially in MineCraft. Never make things more complicated then they need to be just to have extra complexity. Additionally, I dislike randomness (enchanting - I'm looking at you!) so I don't think there should be a random chance to make or ruin a potion.
My ideal alchemy system is simply, intuitive, non-random and, most importantly, fun.