Ok, we need a single thread for this, as it accounts for a fairish share of suggestions, here's some memory saving tools I have thought of that would help catch griefers, some of these idea's are my own, some are inspired by other's that I have seen figments of, I don't take 100% credit to something I see helping everyone.
1: /stealth
This would make the op invisible to players, perhaps on the join list as well, perhaps not, but it makes it easier to follow someone if they can't see you, and make those think twice about griefing, and for rouge ops, they can still be seen by other ops, and it can be turned off if you build or destroy (you should only need to move and teleport if your chasing someone) so a rouge would not be able to use it to grief, thus this tool would not make it any harder to catch rouge ops, but it would make it a lot easier to catch the griefer's that are always double checking if they are being watched or not, and only grief here and there.
2: build/destroy rates
A warning that pops up if someone is doing 80% destroying rather then building (as it's more often then not a bigger problem then the griefers that fill up places with blocks) and as it does not kick or anything, if you are aware someone is just destroying there own stuff for space after checking with them when the warning pops up, it won't be a big deal, perhaps just having there name have a red outline on the tab list. at least it will help catch griefer's who don't take it in to consideration, it's easy to avoid, but it does help a moderate amount with out being memory taxing.
3: Map backup on login
This one is most likely one someone should be able to turn off, as it's not that practical for everyone, and even more so if the greifer has been there for a while, but as a not to hard to program 3rd party tool that someone can use to undo a "shock griefer" who caused a lot of damage, it should be quite useful, also useful in servers that were empty but not taken down, if 2 people went on to this empty server and messed up everything, just load the point they joined... not the most practical, but again a tool someone can consider to write up if they have a use for it, it's better then a tool that tracks every move someone made.
4: /possess /spectating
Kind of like the stealth tool, just that you see threw the eyes of the person you type, they being unaware that you have "possessed" them, easier then stealth and teleport, though some may not like it, it's an alternate approach to the idea.
5: /banhammer
banip + normal ban + banmac, perhaps a short cut /bh would work, something to use when your 100% sure they are griefing, as some people use other names or other IP's, this makes them have to do BOTH each time they log on, every bit counts, and they have to change their MAC address as well.
6: A Tier system, it's already been suggested, though just a visitor thing would be a simple add in before the full update inculding a tier system. an option to set all new people as member's automatically or keep them the default visitors could be included in the options text file, this would make spawn prisons un needed on many levels.
7: /possess+ /spectating+(just normal posses, but another idea to further it) where you type in up to 4 names and watch each one on a mini screen, perhaps /camera with /camera(1-4) to change each one, then just /camera again to play normally
8: /banmac
Quote from Quatroking »
I don't see how people are supposed to fake their MAC adresses, while it can easily be done with IP and names.
Though they can be faked, not as easily
This thread is also for civil talk on anyone else's idea, I might compile a list not unlike the total suggestion's one if it comes to it, tell then, any idea's on any of those? non will solve the problem 100%, but each is designed to help a bit more then it hurts on catching griefers, though some may only help some people, and so some of these should be things that can be turned off or something, or be simple /commands
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<TrueWolves> That's what I meant Iguana, I'm like an Extra+, to just fill in tiny cracks... right?
<Iguana> YUS. <Iguana> BUT WE NEED YOU
<Iguana> You are like...Billy Mays Mighty Putty. (trademarked)
IRC quote on the Minecraft Machinima
I suggested spectating before, so if Notch ever adds that, it might help:
People can switch between players points of view, ops can still do commands and check on people w/out them noticing.And ops might be able to force someone to spectate.
I think it would take the place of stealth and posses if it's ever added.
spectate would be about the same thing, and if notch heard of it it's most likely the one that would be used yes.
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<TrueWolves> That's what I meant Iguana, I'm like an Extra+, to just fill in tiny cracks... right?
<Iguana> YUS. <Iguana> BUT WE NEED YOU
<Iguana> You are like...Billy Mays Mighty Putty. (trademarked)
IRC quote on the Minecraft Machinima
Although, in most games, it is possible to see if someone is spectating for all players. This is a drawback, as an admin in Tremulous, hackers always became wary when i went to spectator mode was speccing.
I was gonna create a new topic for that, but just gonna put in here.
For the stealth/spectating i can already see people hacking the visible=0; making flying invisible griefers all around the server. So here are some security measurements i though.
First, The server should get the information, player is visible?, lets say its not, meaning that the player is in stealth mode, the serven then would send the information to all clients so all players would see that player invisible, but for the ops it would always return visible, so this way all admins see all invisible players all the time, it could also make their name green and a meethod i like is this one.
This is a ideia from a post from Trandom Kaggus.
Wen the player is in stealth mode his outline it would always appear on the ops screen.
But still, the client could still be hacked to see invisible ops, so the griefer could see the stealth OP aproach, so another ecurity measurement would be like this, the server always send to the clients the position of every character (0,0,5) so if a op is in the stealth mode this information would only be sended to the the other Ops making inpossible to trace a hided op.
For the undo command, i actually developed 3 processes for logging this info, the first creating a large file, the second one creating about 50% of the file size of the first file and the third one some really small files. I may create a topic about then later.
It was planed to make op's see others as invisible, this is to ensure it's not any harder to catch rouge op's, this helps as well with hackers that find out a way to go invisible.
I'm also trying to collect other tools thought up by the public and set them in this thread.
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<TrueWolves> That's what I meant Iguana, I'm like an Extra+, to just fill in tiny cracks... right?
<Iguana> YUS. <Iguana> BUT WE NEED YOU
<Iguana> You are like...Billy Mays Mighty Putty. (trademarked)
IRC quote on the Minecraft Machinima
That would be good on it's own and part of the /banhammer command, to bad not everyone has a Mac x.x;
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<TrueWolves> That's what I meant Iguana, I'm like an Extra+, to just fill in tiny cracks... right?
<Iguana> YUS. <Iguana> BUT WE NEED YOU
<Iguana> You are like...Billy Mays Mighty Putty. (trademarked)
IRC quote on the Minecraft Machinima
I didn't, XD, though don't proxies fake those as well as IP addresses?
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<TrueWolves> That's what I meant Iguana, I'm like an Extra+, to just fill in tiny cracks... right?
<Iguana> YUS. <Iguana> BUT WE NEED YOU
<Iguana> You are like...Billy Mays Mighty Putty. (trademarked)
IRC quote on the Minecraft Machinima
The "/possess" idea is very interesting and cool. Griefers would most likely eventually find some way or another around that, but character possession sounds very stealthy. Although the term is a bit creepy to most. Perhaps "/spectate" would be more appealing. Ah, who cares about aesthetics anymore? Efficiency is key. Why not just "/pos."
It's perhaps one of the best idea's on there really, even more so that it was thought up by more then at /least/ 5 people individually. Notch has even heard of the idea, so it's likely to be one that is added.
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<TrueWolves> That's what I meant Iguana, I'm like an Extra+, to just fill in tiny cracks... right?
<Iguana> YUS. <Iguana> BUT WE NEED YOU
<Iguana> You are like...Billy Mays Mighty Putty. (trademarked)
IRC quote on the Minecraft Machinima
/possess or /spectate are the only suggestions that don't really deduct from game play, thus being most likely to be implemented. Well /stealth doesn't but yeh.
My idea is an external app, similar to the programs they have in school. Where an admin has 10 or so boxes per tap on the app showing what each player is doing all the time, like a monitoring system. Then you have a box or 3 or so "viewports" which are alert box's, so when someone says /greif that player comes up the alert viewports. Then underneath there would be a command box for using commands like in the console, or you could right click a players viewport and there is a list of ban, banip, kick, op, deop(only shown if op).
Obviously griefing can stop with good op's, so get some and stop whineing. But when people hack through spawn jails when you're away, or other stuff like that, it's big. The best way to do this is having admin blocks kick people when they are walked inside. It is possible and simple as water changes physics, so obviously this would be a good route.
Obviously griefing can stop with good op's, so get some and stop whineing. But when people hack through spawn jails when you're away, or other stuff like that, it's big. The best way to do this is having admin blocks kick people when they are walked inside. It is possible and simple as water changes physics, so obviously this would be a good route.
I like this. Simple and effective. Youre not supposed to be inside any brick at all really, more so admin bricks.
1: /stealth
This would make the op invisible to players, perhaps on the join list as well, perhaps not, but it makes it easier to follow someone if they can't see you, and make those think twice about griefing, and for rouge ops, they can still be seen by other ops, and it can be turned off if you build or destroy (you should only need to move and teleport if your chasing someone) so a rouge would not be able to use it to grief, thus this tool would not make it any harder to catch rouge ops, but it would make it a lot easier to catch the griefer's that are always double checking if they are being watched or not, and only grief here and there.
2: build/destroy rates
A warning that pops up if someone is doing 80% destroying rather then building (as it's more often then not a bigger problem then the griefers that fill up places with blocks) and as it does not kick or anything, if you are aware someone is just destroying there own stuff for space after checking with them when the warning pops up, it won't be a big deal, perhaps just having there name have a red outline on the tab list. at least it will help catch griefer's who don't take it in to consideration, it's easy to avoid, but it does help a moderate amount with out being memory taxing.
3: Map backup on login
This one is most likely one someone should be able to turn off, as it's not that practical for everyone, and even more so if the greifer has been there for a while, but as a not to hard to program 3rd party tool that someone can use to undo a "shock griefer" who caused a lot of damage, it should be quite useful, also useful in servers that were empty but not taken down, if 2 people went on to this empty server and messed up everything, just load the point they joined... not the most practical, but again a tool someone can consider to write up if they have a use for it, it's better then a tool that tracks every move someone made.
4: /possess /spectating
Kind of like the stealth tool, just that you see threw the eyes of the person you type, they being unaware that you have "possessed" them, easier then stealth and teleport, though some may not like it, it's an alternate approach to the idea.
5: /banhammer
banip + normal ban + banmac, perhaps a short cut /bh would work, something to use when your 100% sure they are griefing, as some people use other names or other IP's, this makes them have to do BOTH each time they log on, every bit counts, and they have to change their MAC address as well.
6: A Tier system, it's already been suggested, though just a visitor thing would be a simple add in before the full update inculding a tier system. an option to set all new people as member's automatically or keep them the default visitors could be included in the options text file, this would make spawn prisons un needed on many levels.
7: /possess+ /spectating+(just normal posses, but another idea to further it) where you type in up to 4 names and watch each one on a mini screen, perhaps /camera with /camera(1-4) to change each one, then just /camera again to play normally
8: /banmac
Though they can be faked, not as easily
This thread is also for civil talk on anyone else's idea, I might compile a list not unlike the total suggestion's one if it comes to it, tell then, any idea's on any of those? non will solve the problem 100%, but each is designed to help a bit more then it hurts on catching griefers, though some may only help some people, and so some of these should be things that can be turned off or something, or be simple /commands
<Iguana> YUS. <Iguana> BUT WE NEED YOU
<Iguana> You are like...Billy Mays Mighty Putty. (trademarked)
IRC quote on the Minecraft Machinima
People can switch between players points of view, ops can still do commands and check on people w/out them noticing.And ops might be able to force someone to spectate.
I think it would take the place of stealth and posses if it's ever added.
<Iguana> YUS. <Iguana> BUT WE NEED YOU
<Iguana> You are like...Billy Mays Mighty Putty. (trademarked)
IRC quote on the Minecraft Machinima
For the stealth/spectating i can already see people hacking the visible=0; making flying invisible griefers all around the server. So here are some security measurements i though.
First, The server should get the information, player is visible?, lets say its not, meaning that the player is in stealth mode, the serven then would send the information to all clients so all players would see that player invisible, but for the ops it would always return visible, so this way all admins see all invisible players all the time, it could also make their name green and a meethod i like is this one.
This is a ideia from a post from Trandom Kaggus.
Wen the player is in stealth mode his outline it would always appear on the ops screen.
But still, the client could still be hacked to see invisible ops, so the griefer could see the stealth OP aproach, so another ecurity measurement would be like this, the server always send to the clients the position of every character (0,0,5) so if a op is in the stealth mode this information would only be sended to the the other Ops making inpossible to trace a hided op.
For the undo command, i actually developed 3 processes for logging this info, the first creating a large file, the second one creating about 50% of the file size of the first file and the third one some really small files. I may create a topic about then later.
For the possess i made a really close sugestion to what you just described in here. http://minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?id=1365
Very nice of you for trying to organizate all this info. kudos for you.
I'm also trying to collect other tools thought up by the public and set them in this thread.
<Iguana> YUS. <Iguana> BUT WE NEED YOU
<Iguana> You are like...Billy Mays Mighty Putty. (trademarked)
IRC quote on the Minecraft Machinima
I don't see how people are supposed to fake their MAC adresses, while it can easily be done with IP and names.
<Iguana> YUS. <Iguana> BUT WE NEED YOU
<Iguana> You are like...Billy Mays Mighty Putty. (trademarked)
IRC quote on the Minecraft Machinima
Media Access Control, not macintosh.
Its possible to fake a MAC adress, but you require more technical skill for it.
and of course, you need to know what a MAC adress is :tongue.gif:
<Iguana> YUS. <Iguana> BUT WE NEED YOU
<Iguana> You are like...Billy Mays Mighty Putty. (trademarked)
IRC quote on the Minecraft Machinima
Quality of output = Skill * Effort
Invisible OP and FPV of griefer seems very promising in the future.
Plus it's the easiest one to make.
http://azjhv.net/
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Retired Staff<Iguana> YUS. <Iguana> BUT WE NEED YOU
<Iguana> You are like...Billy Mays Mighty Putty. (trademarked)
IRC quote on the Minecraft Machinima
;D
All of them.
Yes.
:happy.gif:
They would all undoubtedly help against griefers.
/Stealth is my favorite though.
:tongue.gif:
My idea is an external app, similar to the programs they have in school. Where an admin has 10 or so boxes per tap on the app showing what each player is doing all the time, like a monitoring system. Then you have a box or 3 or so "viewports" which are alert box's, so when someone says /greif that player comes up the alert viewports. Then underneath there would be a command box for using commands like in the console, or you could right click a players viewport and there is a list of ban, banip, kick, op, deop(only shown if op).
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Retired StaffHow about /banall to do ip, name, and MAC
I like this. Simple and effective. Youre not supposed to be inside any brick at all really, more so admin bricks.