Alright, the idea of organizing players into tiers such that OPs > members > visitors has already been suggested. My idea builds on that. I think it would be nice if there could be a "visitors only" section of the map.
One way to implement this would be to give OPs a special block. These blocks could be used to define the perimeter of the visitors only area. An invisible vertical fence would exist along this perimeter, extending from the lowest to the highest point of the map. Perhaps this fence could be visible but transparent within 10 blocks distance, so that players wouldn't try to build a structure through the it.
As long as OPs give out membership to players wisely, this should greatly reduce the damage that griefers are capable of inflicting.
One way to implement this would be to give OPs a special block. These blocks could be used to define the perimeter of the visitors only area.
...
/solid command, silly :biggrin.gif:
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Citricsquid vandalized this space. It has been sterilized ever since.
"Master Cheif! What did I tell you about humping posts?!"
My Steam ID Is: jjchrizzles
Honestly I think this is a bit cumbersome in block form. Some way to designate build or non-build areas would be interesting, but not with invisible blocks.
The solution to griefers is good server administration, not tyrannical limitations on new players entering the map. The game is meant to be free and limitless.
Free for who? The players? Do server owners not qualify as those anymore?
Just as you are free to join any server, server owners are free to run their servers anyway they please. You don't have to agree with it; you only have to accept it. No matter how much you (or anyone) tries to get holier-than-thou about it, practices like this will continue (and personally, I support them entirely).
The solution to griefers is good server administration, not tyrannical limitations on new players entering the map. The game is meant to be free and limitless.
this is so true
enable voteban/votekick. i make the values pretty low since there are always 2+.
like 1 for kick. 2 for ban.
also. i just ask my players to type a message if somone is griefing. i just chill on my computer, playing tf2. checking the console every now and then for messages.
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I have implemented an OP only area using OPcrete on my server, and it actually works pretty well. I have heard zero complaints about it, as the non OPs still have a huge amount of space to build in. There is nothing "tyrannical" about this. The only problem with server administration is that there are not always mods on. I refuse to enable voteban, as I have seen people votekick peaceful players just for fun/because they can. I'm sure the same would be done with voteban. Votekick is enabled, but nearly worthless as it does not prevent reconnections. What I am suggesting does not reduce the quality of the game for normal players, it only increases it for those who have earned the trust of the OPs.
The solution to griefers is good server administration, not tyrannical limitations on new players entering the map. The game is meant to be free and limitless.
you act as if it is possible for every public server to haver 24/7 active and good administators who spend all there time watching the players. It might be possible for a few mainstream servers, but not everyone can get constant administator coverage; and there definately isnt enough administators to watch every player 24/7.
It's entirely possible, If you've got players from all over the world. If we assume each op only plays for 1 hour a day - which is often actually about 6 hours - then you've got one for every hour if you have 24 ops. It's very easy to run a well opped server :smile.gif:
The solution to griefers is good server administration, not tyrannical limitations on new players entering the map. The game is meant to be free and limitless.
you act as if it is possible for every public server to haver 24/7 active and good administators who spend all there time watching the players. It might be possible for a few mainstream servers, but not everyone can get constant administator coverage; and there definately isnt enough administators to watch every player 24/7.
It's entirely possible, If you've got players from all over the world. If we assume each op only plays for 1 hour a day - which is often actually about 6 hours - then you've got one for every hour if you have 24 ops. It's very easy to run a well opped server :smile.gif:
This isn't accurate. That assumes that none of them play at the same time, instead taking hour-long shifts. I don't think six hours is a solid average, either. In any case, I'm willing to concede that it's possible to have constant, competent OP coverage if you're willing to concede that it isn't likely on less-traveled servers. At the time of this post, the server list is absolutely RIFE with 0-3 populations. People with less traffic who still want to run a server are looking for an answer to that, and that answer shouldn't have to be "get more popular and then OP everyone."
1) They take the fun out of joining a server. Everyone at least once has joined an empty or OP-less server, seen that it looks cool, but been trapped with nobody to let them out. It happens to me all the time. This certainly doesn't help promote less-traveled servers, as you can never play on them because you can never get out.
2) It is more work for the OP's to let people out, for NO REASON. What is the difference? They are still going to be released on the server anyways, and if they are griefers, how can you know by trapping them for a little bit beforehand? Every server that I have been on which has a spawn prison has still been griefed. They don't stop griefers, they just delay everyone, including the non griefers.
I don't have a problem with OP exclusive buildings or sections. That seems completely reasonable.
I accept the right of a server owner to run a server any way they please. I am simply responding to the widespread uses of limitations on players entering a server. On most of the servers I have been to, the most successful method of grief prevention is teamwork. If everyone watches out for everyone else, and is talkative and friendly, it becomes quite obvious who is suspicious. Also, the teleport command is very useful, as is watching the chunk updates for unusually high numbers that could signify griefing. Things don't have to be so tyrannical. I can't even count how many times I have caught griefers by simply asking someone who is suspicious "so what have you built" or simply getting everyone to meet in one place, and seeing who doesn't show up. Most of the time they leave immediately, and don't come back.
What I'm saying is, all it takes is good people. You can't let the blocks do the work for you. There has to be human judgement in the mix.
1) They take the fun out of joining a server. Everyone at least once has joined an empty or OP-less server, seen that it looks cool, but been trapped with nobody to let them out. It happens to me all the time. This certainly doesn't help promote less-traveled servers, as you can never play on them because you can never get out.
2) It is more work for the OP's to let people out, for NO REASON. What is the difference? They are still going to be released on the server anyways, and if they are griefers, how can you know by trapping them for a little bit beforehand? Every server that I have been on which has a spawn prison has still been griefed. They don't stop griefers, they just delay everyone, including the non griefers.
I disagree with this actually; let me explain.
If no OP is on, the incentive to run out and destroy everything on the server only becomes stronger, if we dont have a spawn prison then we're going to come back to a server thats ripped to shreds (we've tried this, people left the greifer prison open in our server for a single night and when we came back it wasnt just some items greifed it was greifing that took multiple people and OP's 4 hours to fix); Yes it is a pity that players joining a server without OP's arent't let in, and there should be an OP there almost 24/7 whenever possible, but for every few good players that come to the server there is one or two greifers.
Reason they are there is because the majority of greifers wont wait around for people to let them out, if they cant instantly get out they will often leave, those who don't, well we still patrol around after the people for safety. I'm personally trying to strike off a conversation with people before i let them out of spawn as, i think we've all seen most greifers are too immature/young to wait for a good conversation or even have a good conversation, there is the odd one that acts mature and still greifs but.
In all defence, most good/dedicated builders on the server get OP status, its only new/unknown people who will have trouble getting in, in which case they can come back when there is a OP and prove they are good/dedicated.
thats just my slant on it.
Well said and put, thats pretty much how it works in the eyes of a actually decent/mature Minecrafter/builder. Ten to one when it comes down to it, someones going to create a Trust list of trustworthy people, which is alike but vice-versa of the Griefer Master Ban List.
1) They take the fun out of joining a server. Everyone at least once has joined an empty or OP-less server, seen that it looks cool, but been trapped with nobody to let them out. It happens to me all the time. This certainly doesn't help promote less-traveled servers, as you can never play on them because you can never get out.
2) It is more work for the OP's to let people out, for NO REASON. What is the difference? They are still going to be released on the server anyways, and if they are griefers, how can you know by trapping them for a little bit beforehand? Every server that I have been on which has a spawn prison has still been griefed. They don't stop griefers, they just delay everyone, including the non griefers.
I disagree with this actually; let me explain.
If no OP is on, the incentive to run out and destroy everything on the server only becomes stronger, if we dont have a spawn prison then we're going to come back to a server thats ripped to shreds (we've tried this, people left the greifer prison open in our server for a single night and when we came back it wasnt just some items greifed it was greifing that took multiple people and OP's 4 hours to fix); Yes it is a pity that players joining a server without OP's arent't let in, and there should be an OP there almost 24/7 whenever possible, but for every few good players that come to the server there is one or two greifers.
Reason they are there is because the majority of greifers wont wait around for people to let them out, if they cant instantly get out they will often leave, those who don't, well we still patrol around after the people for safety. I'm personally trying to strike off a conversation with people before i let them out of spawn as, i think we've all seen most greifers are too immature/young to wait for a good conversation or even have a good conversation, there is the odd one that acts mature and still greifs but.
In all defence, most good/dedicated builders on the server get OP status, its only new/unknown people who will have trouble getting in, in which case they can come back when there is a OP and prove they are good/dedicated.
thats just my slant on it.
Yeah I can agree to that....but it still comes back to proper server administration, and good people. I really do think trying to have a conversation with suspected griefers works, it's also quite funny when they leave, in how obvious it is.
Perhaps the problem is that the ops idea was good, but he did it backwards?
Allow the moderators or admins to use invisible blocks to protect areas instead of trapping new players. After all, it is hard to grief an ocean, desert, or mountain. You could grief a forest with fire, but that is fixable with a few saplings and a little time... Griefers primarily target things that other players made.
One solution I would love is a toggleable option to not allow players to destroy blocks placed by other players during their first 10 hours of play time on the server. Force griefers to hang out for hours before they can grief and the practice will get a lot harder. Of course that would require some way to tell a human placed block from a block spawned at world creation.
That said, having something built into the minecraft code to tell if a block was placed by a human instead of by the world creation, and having something in the multiplayer code to allow an Admin to protect areas that have been built on would be nice.
Instead of the OP letting you out of the cage make it so other players have to okay you. Perhaps if 10% of online players say your cool then you get unlocked.
No OP needed, but jerk players can't kick someone just to be idiots.
Instead of the OP letting you out of the cage make it so other players have to okay you. Perhaps if 10% of online players say your cool then you get unlocked.
No OP needed, but jerk players can't kick someone just to be idiots.
Same issue as the /votekick /voteban idea of players never voting anyone in, and the problem is someone has to be in there. If both or all plan to grief, that doesn't stop anything.
So, how about a way to simply deny the player the ability to have TNT, Flint and Steel, and Lava? There goes three main griefer tools removed from the game. Sure, nobody can build with lava then, but they can do with water, unless building a grinder.
Otherwise, aaror2 is close to what would make sense, but the thing it they would just grief around the unprotected terrain and make the place ugly. To simply turn off TNT and Fire and disable creepers damaging buildings would be fine. It is easier to catch the other greifers who disassemble things block by block, or fill things in, but they are rather boring variants of griefing, so with that left they would likely just give up.
Certainly the ability to disable fire/TNT would be great.
But how would one grief that much with lava? You have to: craft a bucket, find lava, grab it, dump it somewhere. And it is pretty easy to stop lava with water.
I guess give the option, but any of the things that could be disabled should toggle independently. And include water, you can drown miners and wipe out lighting (lets monsters spawn!) easy with it.
Another option is that players can "own" plots of land (inverse of the OP) and if they want to be grief free they build on there plot, anyone else (that isn't an OP) would not be able to place/destroy anything within its area. Open areas are fair game, so if you want your work to be safe get an OP to protect it. Or perhaps the ability to let players "claim" up to 9 chunks when they join, they can get more from an OP, or an OP can take them away from those not using them/banished/don't want em.
BTW I would implement it by allocating chunks to a certain player, that way you get everything from bedrock to sky, in nice uniform. . . chunks. . .
Certainly the ability to disable fire/TNT would be great.
But how would one grief that much with lava? You have to: craft a bucket, find lava, grab it, dump it somewhere. And it is pretty easy to stop lava with water.
I guess give the option, but any of the things that could be disabled should toggle independently. And include water, you can drown miners and wipe out lighting (lets monsters spawn!) easy with it.
Another option is that players can "own" plots of land (inverse of the OP) and if they want to be grief free they build on there plot, anyone else (that isn't an OP) would not be able to place/destroy anything within its area. Open areas are fair game, so if you want your work to be safe get an OP to protect it. Or perhaps the ability to let players "claim" up to 9 chunks when they join, they can get more from an OP, or an OP can take them away from those not using them/banished/don't want em.
BTW I would implement it by allocating chunks to a certain player, that way you get everything from bedrock to sky, in nice uniform. . . chunks. . .
One way to implement this would be to give OPs a special block. These blocks could be used to define the perimeter of the visitors only area. An invisible vertical fence would exist along this perimeter, extending from the lowest to the highest point of the map. Perhaps this fence could be visible but transparent within 10 blocks distance, so that players wouldn't try to build a structure through the it.
As long as OPs give out membership to players wisely, this should greatly reduce the damage that griefers are capable of inflicting.
...
/solid command, silly :biggrin.gif:
Citricsquid vandalized this space. It has been sterilized ever since.
"Master Cheif! What did I tell you about humping posts?!"
My Steam ID Is: jjchrizzles
Honestly I think this is a bit cumbersome in block form. Some way to designate build or non-build areas would be interesting, but not with invisible blocks.
Relic of a bygone age.
Just as you are free to join any server, server owners are free to run their servers anyway they please. You don't have to agree with it; you only have to accept it. No matter how much you (or anyone) tries to get holier-than-thou about it, practices like this will continue (and personally, I support them entirely).
Relic of a bygone age.
this is so true
enable voteban/votekick. i make the values pretty low since there are always 2+.
like 1 for kick. 2 for ban.
also. i just ask my players to type a message if somone is griefing. i just chill on my computer, playing tf2. checking the console every now and then for messages.
City and Art Server Status:
Thanks mail2345 for hosting my server!
It's entirely possible, If you've got players from all over the world. If we assume each op only plays for 1 hour a day - which is often actually about 6 hours - then you've got one for every hour if you have 24 ops. It's very easy to run a well opped server :smile.gif:
Quality of output = Skill * Effort
This isn't accurate. That assumes that none of them play at the same time, instead taking hour-long shifts. I don't think six hours is a solid average, either. In any case, I'm willing to concede that it's possible to have constant, competent OP coverage if you're willing to concede that it isn't likely on less-traveled servers. At the time of this post, the server list is absolutely RIFE with 0-3 populations. People with less traffic who still want to run a server are looking for an answer to that, and that answer shouldn't have to be "get more popular and then OP everyone."
Relic of a bygone age.
I don't agree with "spawn prisons". Here is why:
1) They take the fun out of joining a server. Everyone at least once has joined an empty or OP-less server, seen that it looks cool, but been trapped with nobody to let them out. It happens to me all the time. This certainly doesn't help promote less-traveled servers, as you can never play on them because you can never get out.
2) It is more work for the OP's to let people out, for NO REASON. What is the difference? They are still going to be released on the server anyways, and if they are griefers, how can you know by trapping them for a little bit beforehand? Every server that I have been on which has a spawn prison has still been griefed. They don't stop griefers, they just delay everyone, including the non griefers.
I don't have a problem with OP exclusive buildings or sections. That seems completely reasonable.
I accept the right of a server owner to run a server any way they please. I am simply responding to the widespread uses of limitations on players entering a server. On most of the servers I have been to, the most successful method of grief prevention is teamwork. If everyone watches out for everyone else, and is talkative and friendly, it becomes quite obvious who is suspicious. Also, the teleport command is very useful, as is watching the chunk updates for unusually high numbers that could signify griefing. Things don't have to be so tyrannical. I can't even count how many times I have caught griefers by simply asking someone who is suspicious "so what have you built" or simply getting everyone to meet in one place, and seeing who doesn't show up. Most of the time they leave immediately, and don't come back.
What I'm saying is, all it takes is good people. You can't let the blocks do the work for you. There has to be human judgement in the mix.
Well said and put, thats pretty much how it works in the eyes of a actually decent/mature Minecrafter/builder. Ten to one when it comes down to it, someones going to create a Trust list of trustworthy people, which is alike but vice-versa of the Griefer Master Ban List.
Former #minecraft channel operator.
Yeah I can agree to that....but it still comes back to proper server administration, and good people. I really do think trying to have a conversation with suspected griefers works, it's also quite funny when they leave, in how obvious it is.
Allow the moderators or admins to use invisible blocks to protect areas instead of trapping new players. After all, it is hard to grief an ocean, desert, or mountain. You could grief a forest with fire, but that is fixable with a few saplings and a little time... Griefers primarily target things that other players made.
One solution I would love is a toggleable option to not allow players to destroy blocks placed by other players during their first 10 hours of play time on the server. Force griefers to hang out for hours before they can grief and the practice will get a lot harder. Of course that would require some way to tell a human placed block from a block spawned at world creation.
That said, having something built into the minecraft code to tell if a block was placed by a human instead of by the world creation, and having something in the multiplayer code to allow an Admin to protect areas that have been built on would be nice.
You call it a minecraft feature.
Instead of the OP letting you out of the cage make it so other players have to okay you. Perhaps if 10% of online players say your cool then you get unlocked.
No OP needed, but jerk players can't kick someone just to be idiots.
Same issue as the /votekick /voteban idea of players never voting anyone in, and the problem is someone has to be in there. If both or all plan to grief, that doesn't stop anything.
So, how about a way to simply deny the player the ability to have TNT, Flint and Steel, and Lava? There goes three main griefer tools removed from the game. Sure, nobody can build with lava then, but they can do with water, unless building a grinder.
Otherwise, aaror2 is close to what would make sense, but the thing it they would just grief around the unprotected terrain and make the place ugly. To simply turn off TNT and Fire and disable creepers damaging buildings would be fine. It is easier to catch the other greifers who disassemble things block by block, or fill things in, but they are rather boring variants of griefing, so with that left they would likely just give up.
But how would one grief that much with lava? You have to: craft a bucket, find lava, grab it, dump it somewhere. And it is pretty easy to stop lava with water.
I guess give the option, but any of the things that could be disabled should toggle independently. And include water, you can drown miners and wipe out lighting (lets monsters spawn!) easy with it.
Another option is that players can "own" plots of land (inverse of the OP) and if they want to be grief free they build on there plot, anyone else (that isn't an OP) would not be able to place/destroy anything within its area. Open areas are fair game, so if you want your work to be safe get an OP to protect it. Or perhaps the ability to let players "claim" up to 9 chunks when they join, they can get more from an OP, or an OP can take them away from those not using them/banished/don't want em.
BTW I would implement it by allocating chunks to a certain player, that way you get everything from bedrock to sky, in nice uniform. . . chunks. . .
Better. Much. Better.