I think the title says it all- "rare" minerals (diamond/lapis/redstone) need greater stratification.
Right now, if you wanted Diamonds, as most people do, you'd just bore a hole straight down to the center of the Earth, where the other rare minerals also occur in the greatest abundance. So, why is this a problem? Well...
Problems with the current system: 1) Mountains are pretty, but useless. Mountains will only ever contain cobblestone, coal, and gravel, which makes them decidedly unattractive to anyone who is up for some mining. Sure, you could mine it our for a fortress or whatever, but anyone who is looking for minerals is just going to look straight down.
2) Abandoned mineshafts and dungeons are also mostly useless. Sure, they do offer sometimes convenient underground travel, but again, most of them occur well above the best layers for mining, so the chances that they will lead you to anything but iron or, rarely, gold, is minimal. Searching for chests is often fruitless, as the chance of getting anything worthwhile from them is pretty slim. Aside from the path that they have cleared for you, the best thing about mineshafts is the amount of rail that you can quickly acquire. Same goes for dungeons, although they offer exp and...saddles.
If minerals had a wider strata (how wide the strata should be follows): 1) Mountains now could be mined for a purpose other than cobblestone. That would increase the amount of prospective land greatly, and would also make sure people look up and actually survey the mountains more- if diamond was spotted on a mountain side, then effort would be spent to get it.
2) Mineshafts would be useful, as they could provide a path to usable minerals. This begs the question why the miners didn't mine those minerals, but seeing as how most of the mineshafts don't even have a connection to the outside world, it can be reasonably assumed that the miners were completely insane to begin with.
Sure, that's only two points against and two points for. But the implication of opening up the entire world for mining means that you wouldn't have to only go down to get what you need, that it could conceivably be found anywhere. People would begin to start new methods for mining, and you could have people who like to mine mountains or mine the earth.
So, how wide should the strata be?
Well, if everything could occur everywhere, this would be great, but would probably also lead to the feeling that diamond etc. is now too common. An easy fix would be to make the appearance above the current strata to be very rare, or to limit the minerals to two strata, X from the bottom of the map (as it is now), and also X from the top (top being sky). I prefer the first method (make it more rare)- Diamond now has an occurrence of 0.12% below 19 from the bottom, which is roughly 1 in 800 blocks, but if it had a 0.05% chance to appear in other strata, it would be a 1 in 5,000 chance. This is probably too rare, actually, given the sheer size of the world, a 1 in 1000 (.1%) would more than likely be fine. However, if the minerals retain their current spawn chances (or are made slightly rarer), then we'd get another reason for the change:
3) By allowing rare minerals to be more available, it allows players to spend more time creating and less time spent searching. Ok, yeah, there is creative mode if you just want to be creative, but that shouldn't force people in survival mode to spend most of their time underground when they just need that extra something to complete their masterpiece. Allowing for faster gratification might unfortunately kill the thrill when the mineral is actually found, but by having the mineral more readily available, randomly coming across it would feel good as well (lucky!).
If survival mode become more like creative is seen as a problem, then hardcore mode could retain the current mineral spawn strategy, as it fits the hardcore ethic.
Finally, if we have come so far, we could make another change as well-
4) If rare minerals had a higher chance of spawning in/next to dungeons, players would be more inclined to seek out conflict. As it is, most of us probably seek out dungeons for something to do, but it's not really high on our priority list. Why not make it worth seeking out and destroying?
Closing thoughts:
I am sure there is already a plug out there that does this already, but it should be added as either an option or canon, for the reasons detailed above. Most importantly, in order to make the change feel right, the spawn rate numbers and spawn algorithm should be modified to maintain a feel that finding diamond at any level to be a lucky occurrence, as well as the other minerals (seeing as how lapis and redstone are incredibly common comparatively). If nothing else just to make mountains have some kind of relevance other than eyecandy. Also, for late adopters, it would make the game more accessible, if they knew that they wouldn't have to spend their first few days playing the game digging a hole in the ground and could instead enjoy wandering the generated worlds without missing out on anything. Oh, which I guess would mean that people could live a more nomadic minecraft life if they wanted.
I think the title says it all- "rare" minerals (diamond/lapis/redstone) need greater stratification.
Right now, if you wanted Diamonds, as most people do, you'd just bore a hole straight down to the center of the Earth, where the other rare minerals also occur in the greatest abundance. So, why is this a problem? Well...
Problems with the current system: 1) Mountains are pretty, but useless. Mountains will only ever contain cobblestone, coal, and gravel, which makes them decidedly unattractive to anyone who is up for some mining. Sure, you could mine it our for a fortress or whatever, but anyone who is looking for minerals is just going to look straight down.
2) Abandoned mineshafts and dungeons are also mostly useless. Sure, they do offer sometimes convenient underground travel, but again, most of them occur well above the best layers for mining, so the chances that they will lead you to anything but iron or, rarely, gold, is minimal. Searching for chests is often fruitless, as the chance of getting anything worthwhile from them is pretty slim. Aside from the path that they have cleared for you, the best thing about mineshafts is the amount of rail that you can quickly acquire. Same goes for dungeons, although they offer exp and...saddles.
If minerals had a wider strata (how wide the strata should be follows): 1) Mountains now could be mined for a purpose other than cobblestone. That would increase the amount of prospective land greatly, and would also make sure people look up and actually survey the mountains more- if diamond was spotted on a mountain side, then effort would be spent to get it.
2) Mineshafts would be useful, as they could provide a path to usable minerals. This begs the question why the miners didn't mine those minerals, but seeing as how most of the mineshafts don't even have a connection to the outside world, it can be reasonably assumed that the miners were completely insane to begin with.
Sure, that's only two points against and two points for. But the implication of opening up the entire world for mining means that you wouldn't have to only go down to get what you need, that it could conceivably be found anywhere. People would begin to start new methods for mining, and you could have people who like to mine mountains or mine the earth.
So, how wide should the strata be?
Well, if everything could occur everywhere, this would be great, but would probably also lead to the feeling that diamond etc. is now too common. An easy fix would be to make the appearance above the current strata to be very rare, or to limit the minerals to two strata, X from the bottom of the map (as it is now), and also X from the top (top being sky). I prefer the first method (make it more rare)- Diamond now has an occurrence of 0.12% below 19 from the bottom, which is roughly 1 in 800 blocks, but if it had a 0.05% chance to appear in other strata, it would be a 1 in 5,000 chance. This is probably too rare, actually, given the sheer size of the world, a 1 in 1000 (.1%) would more than likely be fine. However, if the minerals retain their current spawn chances (or are made slightly rarer), then we'd get another reason for the change:
3) By allowing rare minerals to be more available, it allows players to spend more time creating and less time spent searching. Ok, yeah, there is creative mode if you just want to be creative, but that shouldn't force people in survival mode to spend most of their time underground when they just need that extra something to complete their masterpiece. Allowing for faster gratification might unfortunately kill the thrill when the mineral is actually found, but by having the mineral more readily available, randomly coming across it would feel good as well (lucky!).
If survival mode become more like creative is seen as a problem, then hardcore mode could retain the current mineral spawn strategy, as it fits the hardcore ethic.
Finally, if we have come so far, we could make another change as well-
4) If rare minerals had a higher chance of spawning in/next to dungeons, players would be more inclined to seek out conflict. As it is, most of us probably seek out dungeons for something to do, but it's not really high on our priority list. Why not make it worth seeking out and destroying?
Closing thoughts:
I am sure there is already a plug out there that does this already, but it should be added as either an option or canon, for the reasons detailed above. Most importantly, in order to make the change feel right, the spawn rate numbers and spawn algorithm should be modified to maintain a feel that finding diamond at any level to be a lucky occurrence, as well as the other minerals (seeing as how lapis and redstone are incredibly common comparatively). If nothing else just to make mountains have some kind of relevance other than eyecandy. Also, for late adopters, it would make the game more accessible, if they knew that they wouldn't have to spend their first few days playing the game digging a hole in the ground and could instead enjoy wandering the generated worlds without missing out on anything. Oh, which I guess would mean that people could live a more nomadic minecraft life if they wanted.
Food for thought.
I agree with most of your comments, except the mountain one. I love the way mountains look. They give minecraft a bigger sense of depth, and make it all look more... Natural. And, most of my iron comes straight out of mountains. But other than that, This is very well written. Nice job somnambulist!
the minerals are placed on where you will realy find them in the earth so finding diamonds in a mountain makes no sense what so ever
This.
You know how diamonds are formed OP?
They need A LOT of pressure, thats why they don't just form in a mountainside and the way Kimberlite Pipes are formed your not going to find one there, in a riverbed/ravine/volcano maybe.
And just throwing this out there but Ive found diamonds in chests along mineshafts.
i dont know i kind of like it the way it is because 1) diamond is soposed to be found very deep and 2) mineshafts are great if you just started a world. They give you easy iron and such.
Right now, if you wanted Diamonds, as most people do, you'd just bore a hole straight down to the center of the Earth, where the other rare minerals also occur in the greatest abundance. So, why is this a problem? Well...
Problems with the current system:
1) Mountains are pretty, but useless. Mountains will only ever contain cobblestone, coal, and gravel, which makes them decidedly unattractive to anyone who is up for some mining. Sure, you could mine it our for a fortress or whatever, but anyone who is looking for minerals is just going to look straight down.
2) Abandoned mineshafts and dungeons are also mostly useless. Sure, they do offer sometimes convenient underground travel, but again, most of them occur well above the best layers for mining, so the chances that they will lead you to anything but iron or, rarely, gold, is minimal. Searching for chests is often fruitless, as the chance of getting anything worthwhile from them is pretty slim. Aside from the path that they have cleared for you, the best thing about mineshafts is the amount of rail that you can quickly acquire. Same goes for dungeons, although they offer exp and...saddles.
If minerals had a wider strata (how wide the strata should be follows):
1) Mountains now could be mined for a purpose other than cobblestone. That would increase the amount of prospective land greatly, and would also make sure people look up and actually survey the mountains more- if diamond was spotted on a mountain side, then effort would be spent to get it.
2) Mineshafts would be useful, as they could provide a path to usable minerals. This begs the question why the miners didn't mine those minerals, but seeing as how most of the mineshafts don't even have a connection to the outside world, it can be reasonably assumed that the miners were completely insane to begin with.
Sure, that's only two points against and two points for. But the implication of opening up the entire world for mining means that you wouldn't have to only go down to get what you need, that it could conceivably be found anywhere. People would begin to start new methods for mining, and you could have people who like to mine mountains or mine the earth.
So, how wide should the strata be?
Well, if everything could occur everywhere, this would be great, but would probably also lead to the feeling that diamond etc. is now too common. An easy fix would be to make the appearance above the current strata to be very rare, or to limit the minerals to two strata, X from the bottom of the map (as it is now), and also X from the top (top being sky). I prefer the first method (make it more rare)- Diamond now has an occurrence of 0.12% below 19 from the bottom, which is roughly 1 in 800 blocks, but if it had a 0.05% chance to appear in other strata, it would be a 1 in 5,000 chance. This is probably too rare, actually, given the sheer size of the world, a 1 in 1000 (.1%) would more than likely be fine. However, if the minerals retain their current spawn chances (or are made slightly rarer), then we'd get another reason for the change:
3) By allowing rare minerals to be more available, it allows players to spend more time creating and less time spent searching. Ok, yeah, there is creative mode if you just want to be creative, but that shouldn't force people in survival mode to spend most of their time underground when they just need that extra something to complete their masterpiece. Allowing for faster gratification might unfortunately kill the thrill when the mineral is actually found, but by having the mineral more readily available, randomly coming across it would feel good as well (lucky!).
If survival mode become more like creative is seen as a problem, then hardcore mode could retain the current mineral spawn strategy, as it fits the hardcore ethic.
Finally, if we have come so far, we could make another change as well-
4) If rare minerals had a higher chance of spawning in/next to dungeons, players would be more inclined to seek out conflict. As it is, most of us probably seek out dungeons for something to do, but it's not really high on our priority list. Why not make it worth seeking out and destroying?
Closing thoughts:
I am sure there is already a plug out there that does this already, but it should be added as either an option or canon, for the reasons detailed above. Most importantly, in order to make the change feel right, the spawn rate numbers and spawn algorithm should be modified to maintain a feel that finding diamond at any level to be a lucky occurrence, as well as the other minerals (seeing as how lapis and redstone are incredibly common comparatively). If nothing else just to make mountains have some kind of relevance other than eyecandy. Also, for late adopters, it would make the game more accessible, if they knew that they wouldn't have to spend their first few days playing the game digging a hole in the ground and could instead enjoy wandering the generated worlds without missing out on anything. Oh, which I guess would mean that people could live a more nomadic minecraft life if they wanted.
Food for thought.
I agree with most of your comments, except the mountain one. I love the way mountains look. They give minecraft a bigger sense of depth, and make it all look more... Natural. And, most of my iron comes straight out of mountains. But other than that, This is very well written. Nice job somnambulist!
Former Lead Modeler of Pixelmon
Minecraft is not Earth, and is not meant to be Earth.
i couldnt have said it better myself
Former Lead Modeler of Pixelmon
This.
You know how diamonds are formed OP?
They need A LOT of pressure, thats why they don't just form in a mountainside and the way Kimberlite Pipes are formed your not going to find one there, in a riverbed/ravine/volcano maybe.
And just throwing this out there but Ive found diamonds in chests along mineshafts.
I'm dissing your post. Minecraft is not Earth, so minerals can be wherever they want to be.
OH GOD LOOK OUT IT'S A SLUUUUT
Did I help? Press the (+) to the right, thanks.
thats so true!
Former Lead Modeler of Pixelmon