In conversation with some friends of mine that play Minecraft, a few ideas came to the forefront and they could very well give Endermen back that 'creepy' factor that Notch was aiming for with them initially. Here's how the ideas evolved.
We were discussing the fact that Notch felt the need to nerf Endermen because people were bitching about them stealing blocks from things they've built. First off, "BOO HOO". Throw down a handful of torches around your stuff and problem solved. Don't believe me? You're welcome to verify for yourself how much 'griefing' they've done on the server my friends and I work in. With a structure built that's nearly 200 cubes long on each side, we've had less than a dozen blocks stolen from the outer wall (and most of those were before I went around and added the torches).
In my opinion, anytime a large group of players hate a very specific monster in a game, there's usually a good reason for it (meaning something was done RIGHT with it). Why do you hate Creepers, for example? Well, they're quiet until it's too late, they blend in and are hard to spot sometimes, they blow crap up and you have to go fixing it, they don't despawn during the day... there's lots of reasons. But they're THE icon of this game currently.
I suggest we start the process of making Endermen more creepy by employing some of the same things. Don't despawn them during the day (more won't spawn, but existing ones continue working away). Second, make them build something interesting and useful. Make them group blocks together into artificial hills that look somewhat natural.
Then make them hollow out the hill so it's deep and dark enough for another Enderman to spawn inside it.
Make Endermen NESTERS... the things they build when your back is turned eventually could turn into nests. Here's how that would work. Rather than simply building hollowed-out hills for another critter to spawn in randomly, set them to intelligently go out seeking something man-made, something that doesn't occur in nature (like a torch, a sign, a chunk of baked-clay-brick wall). With that stolen item, they can lay a seed for an Endermen Spawner, which forms the nest.
They take that stolen item, bury it in their nest-like hill, then cover it up so it's hidden. Now, when an Enderman spawns inside the hill, they pull a block down, float out of the hill, close it back up and go off to start work on their own nests. Pretty soon, Endermen won't be annoying, they'll be creepy and frightening because they can turn up anywhere and you have to physically dig up their nests to destroy them.
Here's a quick little diagram to help visualize what I'm describing. I think this could make Endermen sufficiently unpredictable, even knowing the 'formula' considering how many natural little hills a few blocks tall there are already in any world.
Frostheim Town
Halekine versprechen nichts.
~~~~
Verdammt durch das Fleisch. Gerettet durch das Blut.
~~~~
Skål, Kammerat; Prost, Kamerad; Ура, Товарищ
~~~~
Медвежья кавалерия
~~~~
there's a difference between creepy and overpowered scary. I do like the idea of them building and I do think what they can steal was nerfed a bit too much. They do need to be more difficult even with them now dodging arrows, having more health and better teleportation ai. Nice idea though.
there's a difference between creepy and overpowered scary. I do like the idea of them building and I do think what they can steal was nerfed a bit too much. They do need to be more difficult even with them now dodging arrows, having more health and better teleportation ai. Nice idea though.
I don't think it would make them overpowered scary - the improved teleport AI and better arrow dodging fits well with this, as they're all skills based in the subtle. More health, meh, that could stay or go. I think having them be a more subtle threat like this would make them more interesting (and they should be able to steal more or less ANYTHING, since a little light keeps them from spawning nearby).
Imagine how tough it would be for them to block by block build something that's supposed to blend in, when autogenerated villages already are buried in their own roads.
Not that I dislike the idea, I just doubt it'd be implemented.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote me to be sure to get a response!
Quote from WTFClock »
He who lives in a water house should not throw sponges.
Yes they do still need more tweaking. I consider them to be or supposed to be your ultimate challenging foe in minecraft at least until boss mobs are added. They're meant to be creepy but they aren't that creepy. I want my Endermen to speak a sort of slightly distorted caveman induced english. I would crap my pants at that especially if they saw through my windows.
I like your idea about the nests, it's pretty well thought through. I have some additions though. I think it'd be easier to implement them stealing user blocks but storing them in multiple stacks in a treasure chest within their nest. Their nests could be pre modular designed instead. Having the nests pre made makes them recognizable to players and a resource. So you could go get your stuff back, as well as additional materials you didn't have before as a prize for fighting them off and destroying a nest. With a group of Endermen you'd have to wage war against them for Town and Country, or they may raid your city for loot. I think for the developers it's probably more of how much harm is enough to strike a balance in making them dangerous kleptomaniacs and still keep a level playing field. Maybe make them afraid of guard dogs?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
We were discussing the fact that Notch felt the need to nerf Endermen because people were bitching about them stealing blocks from things they've built. First off, "BOO HOO". Throw down a handful of torches around your stuff and problem solved. Don't believe me? You're welcome to verify for yourself how much 'griefing' they've done on the server my friends and I work in. With a structure built that's nearly 200 cubes long on each side, we've had less than a dozen blocks stolen from the outer wall (and most of those were before I went around and added the torches).
In my opinion, anytime a large group of players hate a very specific monster in a game, there's usually a good reason for it (meaning something was done RIGHT with it). Why do you hate Creepers, for example? Well, they're quiet until it's too late, they blend in and are hard to spot sometimes, they blow crap up and you have to go fixing it, they don't despawn during the day... there's lots of reasons. But they're THE icon of this game currently.
I suggest we start the process of making Endermen more creepy by employing some of the same things. Don't despawn them during the day (more won't spawn, but existing ones continue working away). Second, make them build something interesting and useful. Make them group blocks together into artificial hills that look somewhat natural.
Then make them hollow out the hill so it's deep and dark enough for another Enderman to spawn inside it.
Make Endermen NESTERS... the things they build when your back is turned eventually could turn into nests. Here's how that would work. Rather than simply building hollowed-out hills for another critter to spawn in randomly, set them to intelligently go out seeking something man-made, something that doesn't occur in nature (like a torch, a sign, a chunk of baked-clay-brick wall). With that stolen item, they can lay a seed for an Endermen Spawner, which forms the nest.
They take that stolen item, bury it in their nest-like hill, then cover it up so it's hidden. Now, when an Enderman spawns inside the hill, they pull a block down, float out of the hill, close it back up and go off to start work on their own nests. Pretty soon, Endermen won't be annoying, they'll be creepy and frightening because they can turn up anywhere and you have to physically dig up their nests to destroy them.
Here's a quick little diagram to help visualize what I'm describing. I think this could make Endermen sufficiently unpredictable, even knowing the 'formula' considering how many natural little hills a few blocks tall there are already in any world.
Halekine versprechen nichts.
~~~~
Verdammt durch das Fleisch. Gerettet durch das Blut.
~~~~
Skål, Kammerat; Prost, Kamerad; Ура, Товарищ
~~~~
Медвежья кавалерия
~~~~
I don't think it would make them overpowered scary - the improved teleport AI and better arrow dodging fits well with this, as they're all skills based in the subtle. More health, meh, that could stay or go. I think having them be a more subtle threat like this would make them more interesting (and they should be able to steal more or less ANYTHING, since a little light keeps them from spawning nearby).
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Retired StaffNot that I dislike the idea, I just doubt it'd be implemented.