Update: This suggestion is now a mod! HansiHE has coded all the potions, and the Simple Alchemy mod should soon be ready for public testing!
Hello guys, and thank you for taking the time to read my suggestion. Some of you may know me as the author of the Super Hostile map series, a collection of difficult custom maps where the player explores the map while fighting enemies, avoiding traps and looking for wool.
I make this suggestion to address a potential problem I see emerging with Minecraft 1.8's new combat dynamics, that is, the inability of the player to quickly heal themselves. The various foods used to be instant health restoration items, but now they all simply enable you to maintain very slow passive health regeneration.
While the hunger system is fun for several reasons, I think one negative point may be that it bogs down combat. It encourages an injured player to cower in a corner and sit there waiting on their health to heal back up. (That "hide-and-suck-on-your-thumb gameplay" that some game critics complain about in many modern FPS games.)
I thought up a way to address this that fits in very well with existing materials in Minecraft, and is also very simple.
* Potions are made with dyes and a bowl. Additional potions could use other materials, such as feathers, gold, and Ender Pearls.
* I would estimate the potion durations to run anywhere from 10 seconds up to 60 seconds, depending on how powerful the effect is. Exact durations and number values would need play-testing to test for balance. (Obviously.)
* You get the empty bowl back, just like how mushroom soup works.
So that concludes the Simple Alchemy System. It is based around 3 dye producing plants, which are renewable and can be farmed. I hope you enjoyed reading, and if you think this is a good idea, please reply and mention this suggestion to your friends.
Potential for further expansion:
Ink Sacs - Life Stealing?
Ender Pearls - Teleporation?
Feathers + Lapis Lazuli - Flight?
Potion + Gold Bar = More powerful version of that potion?
I support these suggestions! :smile.gif: I'm not trying to suck up to you or anything, but these would fit in great with your maps! :smile.gif: I play them regularly, trying to beat them quicker and quicker, and I would enjoy these potions to be in the game. :biggrin.gif:
Personally, I think all of that stuff could be avoided by simply changing how hunger works. (Plus, I think herbalism or a like term fits for potion brewing better than alchemy. Or you could just turn hunger off, as I believe that will be an option.) Instead of hunger allowing you to regen health, hunger should do nothing when high, but drain your health when it gets low. Make food still directly recover your health, but over a duration of time, and still have the eating animation. (Sort of like Fallout: New Vegas.) As far as the other potions go, I'm indifferent, so long as they remain expensive. Name doesn't really fit though. Also, no alchemy bench. Just be able to craft at regular bench, less rather pointless items that way.
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Personally, I think all of that stuff could be avoided by simply changing how hunger works. (Plus, I think herbalism or a like term fits for potion brewing better than alchemy. Or you could just turn hunger off, as I believe that will be an option.) Instead of hunger allowing you to regen health, hunger should do nothing when high, but drain your health when it gets low. Make food still directly recover your health, but over a duration of time, and still have the eating animation. (Sort of like Fallout: New Vegas.) As far as the other potions go, I'm indifferent, so long as they remain expensive. Name doesn't really fit though. Also, no alchemy bench. Just be able to craft at regular bench, less rather pointless items that way.
The water bucket component means the player will need iron to be able to use alchemy, which I feel is an important "tech level" barrier.
:smile.gif:
Edit: Also, the Alchemy Station would prevent recipe conflicts. (Red dye + yellow dye normally makes orange, but at an alchemy station, it makes a potion.)
The water bucket component means the player will need iron to be able to use alchemy, which I feel is an important "tech level" barrier.
:smile.gif:
Edit: Also, the Alchemy Station would prevent recipe conflicts. (Red dye + yellow dye normally makes orange, but at an alchemy station, it makes a potion.)
That could be done by simply requiring iron (or whatever else) be mixed in with the normal crafting recopies.
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This is perfect. I was just fighting a bunch of zombies, eating health to restore health and then running for my life when I realized I was gonna have to wait for my health to come back. These are in-combat health solutions, I like!
That could be done by simply requiring iron (or whatever else) be mixed in with the normal crafting recopies.
True, but I wanted it to be renewable and fun to play with. Iron is already used by a ton of things anyway, and I don't think it would be fun to be using iron for potions, because it would make them too expensive.
Making it constantly take iron would also ruin it for SMP servers in the long run, and for custom maps with limited area.
The way it is now means you can have potions forever as long as you farm for them. That means the player has more freedom to use them and have fun with them.
This seems like a good idea, but the potions you described are pretty overpowered. With this suggestion, you could turn every rose you see into 5 hearts of healing. The materials just need to be harder to get, that's all. Also, it doesn't really need to be at a separate alchemy station, either. You could just make them at a crafting table. Maybe they would need bowls to hold them, like with mushroom soup?
True, but I wanted it to be renewable and fun to play with. Iron is already used by a ton of things anyway, and I don't think it would be fun to be using iron for potions, because it would make them too expensive.
Making it constantly take iron would also ruin it for SMP servers in the long run, and for custom maps with limited area.
The way it is now means you can have potions forever as long as you farm for them. That means the player has more freedom to use them and have fun with them.
Honestly, that's one of my problems. The potions seem rather powerful, do they not? To me, it doesn't seem right to have unlimited supplies of these power sources. Ethier the potions need to be toned down or the cost has to be toned up. Potions could require glass, or maybe string and paper (the implication being, hell I don't know, sniffing it?) so then they are still rather easy to obtain, but not really unlimited.
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This seems like a good idea, but the potions you described are pretty overpowered. With this suggestion, you could turn every rose you see into 5 hearts of healing. The materials just need to be harder to get, that's all. Also, it doesn't really need to be at a separate alchemy station, either. You could just make them at a crafting table. Maybe they would need bowls to hold them, like with mushroom soup?
Every pig you used to see could turn into 4 hearts of healing, but nobody complained... Also, eventually you would run out of roses in your area, and need to use bonemeal to grow them. Getting bonemeal isn't always risk-free. Also, you have to find iron first. I put a lot of thought into this, and I think it's fairly well balanced, but that's what play-testing is for, right? It's not hard to change a variable.
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as to the cost problem: make potions easy to get, but hard on your inventory. Drop the alchemy station, for its not needed. Instead you make potions just like stew, except with dye for shrooms and a bucket of water for the bowl. The bucket is returned upon potion use, and potions don't stack.
In this way, you drop the extra block, keep the tech prereq, and limit the power of potions. In your super hostile series the buckets may become like LoZ bottles; finite and hoarded.
EDIT: I guess it may seem kinda funny that your drinking a entire bucket of potion..
Honestly, that's one of my problems. The potions seem rather powerful, do they not? To me, it doesn't seem right to have unlimited supplies of these power sources. Ethier the potions need to be toned down or the cost has to be toned up. Potions could require glass, or maybe string and paper (the implication being, hell I don't know, sniffing it?) so then they are still rather easy to obtain, but not really unlimited.
Well honestly, it's up to none of us to make the call on the numbers used. 5 hearts? 4? 3? 6? 80%? 70%? 15 seconds? 10 seconds? 30 seconds?
That's for Mojang to decide.
The main point of this suggestion is to convey general design ideas, and also to address potential problems, and give a solution to the 1.8 combat dynamics.
Well honestly, it's up to none of us to make the call on the numbers used. 5 hearts? 4? 3? 6? 80%? 70%? 15 seconds? 10 seconds? 30 seconds?
That's for Mojang to decide.
The main point of this suggestion is to convey general design ideas, and also to address potential problems, and give a solution to the 1.8 combat dynamics.
Why even give specific numbers, then, if you are simply going to use the "It's not up to me" excuse anyways? Might as well save your self some time and just have the bare suggestion.
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as to the cost problem: make potions easy to get, but hard on your inventory. Drop the alchemy station, for its not needed. Instead you make potions just like stew, except with dye for shrooms and a bucket of water for the bowl. The bucket is returned upon potion use, and potions don't stack.
In this way, you drop the extra block, keep the tech prereq, and limit the power of potions. In your super hostile series the buckets may become like LoZ bottles; finite and hoarded.
I really like that, except that buckets don't stack, so you couldn't grind out a ton of potions really fast. It would be even slower than crafting armor, as you would have to constantly put a single bucket back into the crafting area. (Unless the bucket was coded to stay in the crafting grid...)
(Although if I recall correctly, Notch has said he may redo the crafting in Minecraft completely, so this whole part of the conversation could be moot in a few months.)
Why even give specific numbers, then, if you are simply going to use the "It's not up to me" excuse anyways? Might as well save your self some time and just have the bare suggestion.
An excuse?
Major game companies with hundreds of employees and huge budgets and development times still struggle with balancing. Look at modern MMO's and RTS games, in particular. They constantly tweak their numbers.
Minecraft itself has been in a paid-testing state for years with literally millions of players and tons of feedback, and Notch still is tweaking things.
Expecting someone to make a suggestion with perfect numbers is just unrealistic. (But even with that said, I still think I'm in the ballpark with the balance. But perfect? Nope.)
I really like that, except that buckets don't stack, so you couldn't grind out a ton of potions really fast. It would be even slower than crafting armor, as you would have to constantly put a single bucket back into the crafting area. (Unless the bucket was coded to stay in the crafting grid...)
(Although if I recall correctly, Notch has said he may redo the crafting in Minecraft completely, so this whole part of the conversation could be moot in a few months.)
well it problably wouldn't stay in, as the idea was that the end result was a bucket of potion. However, thats rather moot as you will likely be reuseing the same 4-5 buckets over and over again as you drink the potion in it and then refill it, so you will only be making a few at a time.
As for part two, we will deal with that when it comes.
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I think this is pretty solid, but I think there should be a few more things.
The alchemy station seems fine, but also I'd say they need things such as glass for bottles . like a upside down pants shape of glass with a block of wood on top makes 4 bottles, then bottles crafted with different numbers of dyes, not just hard amounts but actual potencies of potions to create different strength of potions which have lasting durabilities depending on how much you mix. Also, the need to have the bottles be filled with water too. The bottles would look like painterly pack bottle buckets at best I'd say.
so lets see you could go:
Red red and bottle would make a lesser healing for 2 hearts. 4 reds could make that 4 hearts, while 6 reds which is the max could be the greater which is 6. Potions should also not stack at all, so you've gotta prioritize which potions you carry, and how powerful you make them so that you can carry on. Like having a tone of lessers, would give you less heals for more space, forcing you kinda to aim for making stronger potions first hand so that you can heal better.
The regeneration potion however I think it should simply power-up the natural regen speed, so if you don't have full food it's a waste, so it makes you not only worry about having the potion space, but also the food levels to sustain the effect.
could be also effected by potency, so having one red and green would give 10 seconds of double speed regen. 2 of them would give say 15 seconds of double speed regen, and meanwhile 3 of each being the strongest would give an overcharged one which gives triple speed regen for 15 seconds.
now... double yellow for the sprinting. I'm thinking maybe this could effect say how fast you move and not just make you always sprinting. so level 1 is 50% move speed so thats like a speed boost equal to half that of sprinting for 30 seconds. Sprinting would make your total movement speed hence 250% (that being if sprinting makes you move at double speed...). level 2 would strength it so you're moving at sprint speed always, but you can still sprint to get even more for 30 seconds :ohmy.gif:. level 3 would be the super over powered version which gives you eternal sprint normal move speed but be for like 60 seconds like the base potion you mentioned. BUT, for such a nice speed boost it should also directly effect the speed your hunger drops and if it gets to 3 or below the effects don't help at all just like usual in the game where when hunger goes to 3 or less you can't sprint anymore.
That shield potion now. My thought is that is decreases damage by a percentage rather than giving you armor. So example. level 1 potency would give 33% damage reduction for 15 seconds. Level 2 would give you 50% reduction. level 3 would give the mega 80% decrease. But it would also last maybe 30 seconds. now... the evil drawback would be that it slows you down by a tad. like say 10%, 20% and 30% respectively. it's not much but anything to make it less overpowered. so basically it shields you, but makes you act like a slow tanking character.
Before I continue as you can see all the potion styles/changes I've suggested for you all have their strengths but also they give you a limit on them. like regen only works at full. Healing by itself is how you gotta carry multiple and aim for higher potencies for instant heals to be effective. Shield slows you down but strengthens you, and finally the speed potion drains food like sprinting and deactivates when food is slow like normal sprinting. A general drawback is that higher potencies means higher levels of resources needed meaning you'll run out faster and need to forage or go make more reagents.
Now. Onwards to the thorn potion. same again, level 1 one would last 30 seconds and make them get punched back for punch damage with knockback. Level 2, would last 45 seconds with double strength punching (2 hearts) damage. While the 3rd level would last 45 seconds again, and for double strength punch (2 hearts) BUT the knockback would be that of the sprint knock back, so basically you're kinda a walking crowd control attack to zombies, spiders, endermen and silverfish who try to smack you one. But the drawback is obviously long rangers like ghasts and skeles can still shoot you. I'm thinking cause of the effect it should also have a small detrimental effect on armors defensive strength. EG: if iron armor halves damage at first made power it would lose a bit of that and would only take off say 40%. it's not much, but sometimes that little percentage can be the difference if a creeper leaves you on half a heart or kills you. >_>'
Firebrand though I'm not sure what to do with, cause it's effect isn't really scalable except to the point of making it either only work with punches, swords, bows or all depending on level. EG: level 1, you only burn stuff with falcon punches. Level 2 you only burn stuff with punches or melee. and max level everything burns. Something else could be it acts like the thorns potion that melee attackers get put on fire with revenge damage on levels 2 and up. OR it could be a drawback to make it when you go in water while it's on the effect goes off completely and everytime you successfully attack it uses up a tiny bit of food amountable perhaps to like 3 hits to an enemy drops half a blip. I'm saying this as it could be that it increases the body heat of Steve/your character and allows them to channel said heat into attacks to be like a walking advanced lighting technique... oh... that could actually be really good actually! >=D but yeah, use more food overtime and instantly wasted when touching water sounds decent on the bad effects side of it. considering lighting enemies on fire with a hit sounds quite powerful considering critical hits and stuff now.
but yeah, thats my rant complete.
Tell me if you think this is alright, or if I'm too hard to understand or something. :biggrin.gif:
edit: dang typoes. typing too fast for my own good. D:
Update: This suggestion is now a mod! HansiHE has coded all the potions, and the Simple Alchemy mod should soon be ready for public testing!
Hello guys, and thank you for taking the time to read my suggestion. Some of you may know me as the author of the Super Hostile map series, a collection of difficult custom maps where the player explores the map while fighting enemies, avoiding traps and looking for wool.
I make this suggestion to address a potential problem I see emerging with Minecraft 1.8's new combat dynamics, that is, the inability of the player to quickly heal themselves. The various foods used to be instant health restoration items, but now they all simply enable you to maintain very slow passive health regeneration.
While the hunger system is fun for several reasons, I think one negative point may be that it bogs down combat. It encourages an injured player to cower in a corner and sit there waiting on their health to heal back up. (That "hide-and-suck-on-your-thumb gameplay" that some game critics complain about in many modern FPS games.)
I thought up a way to address this that fits in very well with existing materials in Minecraft, and is also very simple.
* Potions are made with dyes and a bowl. Additional potions could use other materials, such as feathers, gold, and Ender Pearls.
* I would estimate the potion durations to run anywhere from 10 seconds up to 60 seconds, depending on how powerful the effect is. Exact durations and number values would need play-testing to test for balance. (Obviously.)
* You get the empty bowl back, just like how mushroom soup works.
So that concludes the Simple Alchemy System. It is based around 3 dye producing plants, which are renewable and can be farmed. I hope you enjoyed reading, and if you think this is a good idea, please reply and mention this suggestion to your friends.
Potential for further expansion:
Ink Sacs - Life Stealing?
Ender Pearls - Teleporation?
Feathers + Lapis Lazuli - Flight?
Potion + Gold Bar = More powerful version of that potion?
The water bucket component means the player will need iron to be able to use alchemy, which I feel is an important "tech level" barrier.
:smile.gif:
Edit: Also, the Alchemy Station would prevent recipe conflicts. (Red dye + yellow dye normally makes orange, but at an alchemy station, it makes a potion.)
That could be done by simply requiring iron (or whatever else) be mixed in with the normal crafting recopies.
Would probably have to require some glass of some sort to contain the potion as well.
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True, but I wanted it to be renewable and fun to play with. Iron is already used by a ton of things anyway, and I don't think it would be fun to be using iron for potions, because it would make them too expensive.
Making it constantly take iron would also ruin it for SMP servers in the long run, and for custom maps with limited area.
The way it is now means you can have potions forever as long as you farm for them. That means the player has more freedom to use them and have fun with them.
Honestly, that's one of my problems. The potions seem rather powerful, do they not? To me, it doesn't seem right to have unlimited supplies of these power sources. Ethier the potions need to be toned down or the cost has to be toned up. Potions could require glass, or maybe string and paper (the implication being, hell I don't know, sniffing it?) so then they are still rather easy to obtain, but not really unlimited.
Every pig you used to see could turn into 4 hearts of healing, but nobody complained... Also, eventually you would run out of roses in your area, and need to use bonemeal to grow them. Getting bonemeal isn't always risk-free. Also, you have to find iron first. I put a lot of thought into this, and I think it's fairly well balanced, but that's what play-testing is for, right? It's not hard to change a variable.
In this way, you drop the extra block, keep the tech prereq, and limit the power of potions. In your super hostile series the buckets may become like LoZ bottles; finite and hoarded.
EDIT: I guess it may seem kinda funny that your drinking a entire bucket of potion..
Well honestly, it's up to none of us to make the call on the numbers used. 5 hearts? 4? 3? 6? 80%? 70%? 15 seconds? 10 seconds? 30 seconds?
That's for Mojang to decide.
The main point of this suggestion is to convey general design ideas, and also to address potential problems, and give a solution to the 1.8 combat dynamics.
Why even give specific numbers, then, if you are simply going to use the "It's not up to me" excuse anyways? Might as well save your self some time and just have the bare suggestion.
I really like that, except that buckets don't stack, so you couldn't grind out a ton of potions really fast. It would be even slower than crafting armor, as you would have to constantly put a single bucket back into the crafting area. (Unless the bucket was coded to stay in the crafting grid...)
(Although if I recall correctly, Notch has said he may redo the crafting in Minecraft completely, so this whole part of the conversation could be moot in a few months.)
An excuse?
Major game companies with hundreds of employees and huge budgets and development times still struggle with balancing. Look at modern MMO's and RTS games, in particular. They constantly tweak their numbers.
Minecraft itself has been in a paid-testing state for years with literally millions of players and tons of feedback, and Notch still is tweaking things.
Expecting someone to make a suggestion with perfect numbers is just unrealistic. (But even with that said, I still think I'm in the ballpark with the balance. But perfect? Nope.)
well it problably wouldn't stay in, as the idea was that the end result was a bucket of potion. However, thats rather moot as you will likely be reuseing the same 4-5 buckets over and over again as you drink the potion in it and then refill it, so you will only be making a few at a time.
As for part two, we will deal with that when it comes.
The alchemy station seems fine, but also I'd say they need things such as glass for bottles . like a upside down pants shape of glass with a block of wood on top makes 4 bottles, then bottles crafted with different numbers of dyes, not just hard amounts but actual potencies of potions to create different strength of potions which have lasting durabilities depending on how much you mix. Also, the need to have the bottles be filled with water too. The bottles would look like painterly pack bottle buckets at best I'd say.
so lets see you could go:
Red red and bottle would make a lesser healing for 2 hearts. 4 reds could make that 4 hearts, while 6 reds which is the max could be the greater which is 6. Potions should also not stack at all, so you've gotta prioritize which potions you carry, and how powerful you make them so that you can carry on. Like having a tone of lessers, would give you less heals for more space, forcing you kinda to aim for making stronger potions first hand so that you can heal better.
The regeneration potion however I think it should simply power-up the natural regen speed, so if you don't have full food it's a waste, so it makes you not only worry about having the potion space, but also the food levels to sustain the effect.
could be also effected by potency, so having one red and green would give 10 seconds of double speed regen. 2 of them would give say 15 seconds of double speed regen, and meanwhile 3 of each being the strongest would give an overcharged one which gives triple speed regen for 15 seconds.
now... double yellow for the sprinting. I'm thinking maybe this could effect say how fast you move and not just make you always sprinting. so level 1 is 50% move speed so thats like a speed boost equal to half that of sprinting for 30 seconds. Sprinting would make your total movement speed hence 250% (that being if sprinting makes you move at double speed...). level 2 would strength it so you're moving at sprint speed always, but you can still sprint to get even more for 30 seconds :ohmy.gif:. level 3 would be the super over powered version which gives you eternal sprint normal move speed but be for like 60 seconds like the base potion you mentioned. BUT, for such a nice speed boost it should also directly effect the speed your hunger drops and if it gets to 3 or below the effects don't help at all just like usual in the game where when hunger goes to 3 or less you can't sprint anymore.
That shield potion now. My thought is that is decreases damage by a percentage rather than giving you armor. So example. level 1 potency would give 33% damage reduction for 15 seconds. Level 2 would give you 50% reduction. level 3 would give the mega 80% decrease. But it would also last maybe 30 seconds. now... the evil drawback would be that it slows you down by a tad. like say 10%, 20% and 30% respectively. it's not much but anything to make it less overpowered. so basically it shields you, but makes you act like a slow tanking character.
Before I continue as you can see all the potion styles/changes I've suggested for you all have their strengths but also they give you a limit on them. like regen only works at full. Healing by itself is how you gotta carry multiple and aim for higher potencies for instant heals to be effective. Shield slows you down but strengthens you, and finally the speed potion drains food like sprinting and deactivates when food is slow like normal sprinting. A general drawback is that higher potencies means higher levels of resources needed meaning you'll run out faster and need to forage or go make more reagents.
Now. Onwards to the thorn potion. same again, level 1 one would last 30 seconds and make them get punched back for punch damage with knockback. Level 2, would last 45 seconds with double strength punching (2 hearts) damage. While the 3rd level would last 45 seconds again, and for double strength punch (2 hearts) BUT the knockback would be that of the sprint knock back, so basically you're kinda a walking crowd control attack to zombies, spiders, endermen and silverfish who try to smack you one. But the drawback is obviously long rangers like ghasts and skeles can still shoot you. I'm thinking cause of the effect it should also have a small detrimental effect on armors defensive strength. EG: if iron armor halves damage at first made power it would lose a bit of that and would only take off say 40%. it's not much, but sometimes that little percentage can be the difference if a creeper leaves you on half a heart or kills you. >_>'
Firebrand though I'm not sure what to do with, cause it's effect isn't really scalable except to the point of making it either only work with punches, swords, bows or all depending on level. EG: level 1, you only burn stuff with falcon punches. Level 2 you only burn stuff with punches or melee. and max level everything burns. Something else could be it acts like the thorns potion that melee attackers get put on fire with revenge damage on levels 2 and up. OR it could be a drawback to make it when you go in water while it's on the effect goes off completely and everytime you successfully attack it uses up a tiny bit of food amountable perhaps to like 3 hits to an enemy drops half a blip. I'm saying this as it could be that it increases the body heat of Steve/your character and allows them to channel said heat into attacks to be like a walking advanced lighting technique... oh... that could actually be really good actually! >=D but yeah, use more food overtime and instantly wasted when touching water sounds decent on the bad effects side of it. considering lighting enemies on fire with a hit sounds quite powerful considering critical hits and stuff now.
but yeah, thats my rant complete.
Tell me if you think this is alright, or if I'm too hard to understand or something. :biggrin.gif:
edit: dang typoes. typing too fast for my own good. D:
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