No, this isn't another "OBSIDIAN TOOLS OMG" thread. I did some searching and I couldn't find anything that matched this concept. That said, there are a LOT of threads, so I apologize if I've overlooked something that regular forum goers will know is actually frequently posted. It's hard to get a good impression without just being a regular.
My friends and I have been doing some rather large digs lately, and an idea we've kicked around a bit is High Durability - Low Efficiency tools. For example, a pick that could break 3000 blocks before wearing out, but takes .7 seconds to break a stone block (whereas a stone pick currently takes .6 seconds), and can't harvest materials from diamond, obsidian, gold, or redstone blocks. This makes it slower than stone tools, but much more inventory-space efficient, so there's a trade off instead of the tool just being flatly better.
Of course obsidian is the material we were originally musing about (mostly because the way obsidian acts in game matches this concept pretty closely), but it's really not important what the tool is crafted from. The point is that you get the option to trade off time efficiency for inventory-space and/or crafting time and material efficiency.
Hypothetical: You read a thread in the Suggestions forum. You suddenly realize you've seen the idea before. Maybe it's a duplicate? No. Maybe it's just you? No. Maybe it's been done already? Very likely: Click here if there's a mod for that.
Well, if I'm digging a pit 100 blocks on each side, I'm probably not going to waste diamond on it, because my diamond will run out before I make much headway even if I have hundreds of diamond in stock.
Diamond is rare and valuable, and great for some projects, but there are plenty where my friends and I just revert back to stone even though we all have plenty of diamond, because it's more resource efficient for big projects. I guess I was thinking that the material for these tools would be less-rare than diamond.
Well, if I'm digging a pit 100 blocks on each side, I'm probably not going to waste diamond on it, because my diamond will run out before I make much headway even if I have hundreds of diamond in stock.
Diamond is rare and valuable, and great for some projects, but there are plenty where my friends and I just revert back to stone even though we all have plenty of diamond, because it's more resource efficient for big projects. I guess I was thinking that the material for these tools would be less-rare than diamond.
That is the argument I have been making for ages. But I personally think if we did have a tier that did this, it should still be above diamond, just because the time it takes to mine a block doesn't matter to me.
What bout instead of this, making the handle differently will give you increased durability? Like if you made the handle out of Iron instead. It's heavier so it would take a long time to mine a block but Iron will last longer than a stick. That way you could just have a build for each tier. You have a fast version, and a long lasting version.
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meh. just carry around some logs, a workbench, and the stone you get from mining. it will have the same effect.
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This is what we do now, and I'm aware that it works well. It's a heck of a lot more efficient than using diamond or iron. Just it's possible to do something now doesn't mean an alternative or better way to do it is an invalid idea.
That is the argument I have been making for ages. But I personally think if we did have a tier that did this, it should still be above diamond, just because the time it takes to mine a block doesn't matter to me.
What bout instead of this, making the handle differently will give you increased durability? Like if you made the handle out of Iron instead. It's heavier so it would take a long time to mine a block but Iron will last longer than a stick. That way you could just have a build for each tier. You have a fast version, and a long lasting version.
Like I said, whether the concept works is really independent of the specific resource it's crafted with. I do like the idea of this being a 'modification' on existing tools, but the rarity of the resource used still needs to be balanced to make it worthwhile.
This is what we do now, and I'm aware that it works well. It's a heck of a lot more efficient than using diamond or iron. Just it's possible to do something now doesn't mean an alternative or better way to do it is an invalid idea.
Like I said, whether the concept works is really independent of the specific resource it's crafted with. I do like the idea of this being a 'modification' on existing tools, but the rarity of the resource used still needs to be balanced to make it worthwhile.
Well I can do some math on the different durabilities and try and find a balanced version of Iron handled tools. I'll post back when I have the answers. Hey, its like a guaranteed bump lol.
Edit: According to Jeb at the Dreamhack presentation, we are going to get tool upgrades of some sort. Just read that on the Wiki.
Edit Again: WHY ARE TOOL DURABILITY THE ONLY THING NOT DIVISIBLE BY 8?! IT'S NOT FAIR AND MAKES MY MATH HARDER. Grrr...
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Well, if I'm digging a pit 100 blocks on each side, I'm probably not going to waste diamond on it, because my diamond will run out before I make much headway even if I have hundreds of diamond in stock.
Diamond is rare and valuable, and great for some projects, but there are plenty where my friends and I just revert back to stone even though we all have plenty of diamond, because it's more resource efficient for big projects. I guess I was thinking that the material for these tools would be less-rare than diamond.
But this is time and space consuming and what else are you going to use the diamonds on? Armour?
Stone picks can remove 132 blocks before breaking, Diamond picks remove 1563.
Therefore a diamond pick is equal to around 11.8 stone picks, rounded up to 12.
Those 12 stone picks equates to 12x3=36 peices of cobble.
Now factor in how many stone picks you need for that 100x100x100 pit, that's 1000000 Blocks. Divide that by 132 to see how many stone picks you would need to remove that many stone based blocks.
MS Calculator is saying it's 7575.8 stone picks multiply that by 3 to see how much cobble you need, it ends up being 22727.4 rounded up to 22728 (as you cant craft a pick with half blocks).
That is a lot of crafts... However you are right about how resource efficient stone tools are. Because I don't even think a person could find enough diamonds to clear a 100x100x100 area. But who does that legit?
Strengthening iron tools would be a good idea though, even buffing diamond to 2000-3000. Iron should break 400-600 blocks. Iron tools are quite inefficient.
For just Shovels, this is the bare minimum each one has to have in durability in order for it to be better than if you just crafted the components themselves, if you had unlimited sticks (Gold is not on the list, as it will always be the worst):
Wood - 563
Stone - 635
Iron - 754
Diamond - 2065
Formula:
X=(T+1)+(251*2)
X: The Minimum Durability
T: The Tiered Material's Durability (Wood = 60, Stone = 132, etc.)
The (251*2) is how many uses you would get from taking each ingot in the handle and just making an iron tool out of it.
In summation, Each tool would need to get 503 more uses at least with Iron Handles instead of sticks. I was going to say doubling the durability would work, but it only works with a Diamond tool. Frankly, They should just fix the tools so each one's durability is divisible by 64 and Iron handles could add 512 Durability across the board.
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My friends and I have been doing some rather large digs lately, and an idea we've kicked around a bit is High Durability - Low Efficiency tools. For example, a pick that could break 3000 blocks before wearing out, but takes .7 seconds to break a stone block (whereas a stone pick currently takes .6 seconds), and can't harvest materials from diamond, obsidian, gold, or redstone blocks. This makes it slower than stone tools, but much more inventory-space efficient, so there's a trade off instead of the tool just being flatly better.
Of course obsidian is the material we were originally musing about (mostly because the way obsidian acts in game matches this concept pretty closely), but it's really not important what the tool is crafted from. The point is that you get the option to trade off time efficiency for inventory-space and/or crafting time and material efficiency.
The Sun rises in the North!Now these points of data make a beautiful line...
Welcome to the harsh barren land of the Minecraft forums.
Well, if I'm digging a pit 100 blocks on each side, I'm probably not going to waste diamond on it, because my diamond will run out before I make much headway even if I have hundreds of diamond in stock.
Diamond is rare and valuable, and great for some projects, but there are plenty where my friends and I just revert back to stone even though we all have plenty of diamond, because it's more resource efficient for big projects. I guess I was thinking that the material for these tools would be less-rare than diamond.
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ModeratorThat is the argument I have been making for ages. But I personally think if we did have a tier that did this, it should still be above diamond, just because the time it takes to mine a block doesn't matter to me.
What bout instead of this, making the handle differently will give you increased durability? Like if you made the handle out of Iron instead. It's heavier so it would take a long time to mine a block but Iron will last longer than a stick. That way you could just have a build for each tier. You have a fast version, and a long lasting version.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum
This is what we do now, and I'm aware that it works well. It's a heck of a lot more efficient than using diamond or iron. Just it's possible to do something now doesn't mean an alternative or better way to do it is an invalid idea.
Like I said, whether the concept works is really independent of the specific resource it's crafted with. I do like the idea of this being a 'modification' on existing tools, but the rarity of the resource used still needs to be balanced to make it worthwhile.
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ModeratorWell I can do some math on the different durabilities and try and find a balanced version of Iron handled tools. I'll post back when I have the answers. Hey, its like a guaranteed bump lol.
Edit: According to Jeb at the Dreamhack presentation, we are going to get tool upgrades of some sort. Just read that on the Wiki.
Edit Again: WHY ARE TOOL DURABILITY THE ONLY THING NOT DIVISIBLE BY 8?! IT'S NOT FAIR AND MAKES MY MATH HARDER. Grrr...
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum
But this is time and space consuming and what else are you going to use the diamonds on? Armour?
Stone picks can remove 132 blocks before breaking, Diamond picks remove 1563.
Therefore a diamond pick is equal to around 11.8 stone picks, rounded up to 12.
Those 12 stone picks equates to 12x3=36 peices of cobble.
Now factor in how many stone picks you need for that 100x100x100 pit, that's 1000000 Blocks. Divide that by 132 to see how many stone picks you would need to remove that many stone based blocks.
MS Calculator is saying it's 7575.8 stone picks multiply that by 3 to see how much cobble you need, it ends up being 22727.4 rounded up to 22728 (as you cant craft a pick with half blocks).
That is a lot of crafts... However you are right about how resource efficient stone tools are. Because I don't even think a person could find enough diamonds to clear a 100x100x100 area. But who does that legit?
Strengthening iron tools would be a good idea though, even buffing diamond to 2000-3000. Iron should break 400-600 blocks. Iron tools are quite inefficient.
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ModeratorWood - 563
Stone - 635
Iron - 754
Diamond - 2065
Formula:
X=(T+1)+(251*2)
X: The Minimum Durability
T: The Tiered Material's Durability (Wood = 60, Stone = 132, etc.)
The (251*2) is how many uses you would get from taking each ingot in the handle and just making an iron tool out of it.
In summation, Each tool would need to get 503 more uses at least with Iron Handles instead of sticks. I was going to say doubling the durability would work, but it only works with a Diamond tool. Frankly, They should just fix the tools so each one's durability is divisible by 64 and Iron handles could add 512 Durability across the board.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum