First of all, apologies if something like this has already been posted before :-S
The problem
Currently, there are three non-peaceful difficulty levels, Easy Medium and Hard, the only major difference between these being the amount of damage dealt by mobs. I frequently see comments from people who would like to play against mobs, but only end up playing on peaceful, simply because they find it too frustrating when creepers explode and destroy their creations. Among other evidence for this, there is:
This poll, which shows more people actually play on peaceful *only* to avoid creepers, rather then hostile mobs in general
This wiki section, suggesting to constantly switch between peaceful and non-peaceful modes to avoid mobs in only certain situations. Not only is this a complete pain to do, but also gives a feeling of "cheating" by simply turning mobs off when it gets too hard (ie. no sense of achievement by staying alive at difficulty level X/Y/Z)
In addition, from a new player's perspective, if you have initially learnt to play on peaceful (as I did), then it's a massive step up to "Easy" mode, where you're suddenly being blown up by creepers and attacked by skeletons.
Potential solution: Re-balance difficulty levels
I propose that the difficulty levels should be re-balanced to affect mob spawn rates in different situations. As a rough example:
Easy: Only zombies spawn at ground level, underground you'll also find spiders, then as you venture deeper underground, creepers and skeletons appear. Also includes reduced mob spawn rates.
Medium: Same as easy, except mobs appear more frequently and at higher levels. Maybe spiders or skeletons at ground level, but not creepers.
Hard: Same as it is now, mobs everywhere!
Advantages:
Should be relatively simple to code, only changes the rules determining where mobs can spawn
Does not affect players that currently want to play on the hardest setting (so minimal whining?)
Gives new players a challange without being too difficult
New gameplay dynamic: Game gets harder the deeper underground you go. Adds additional risk to accessing diamonds, gold etc.
Difficulty levels still consistent for the purposes of challanges (ie. my "Easy" setting is the same as another person's "Easy" setting)
Fits well with future development, new mobs can be added to difficulty levels as appropriate
Cons:
Lack of flexibility?
Change to existing Easy/Medium difficulty levels may upset current players (but doesn't every change?)
Potential solution: Custom difficulty levels
Another solution would be to allow complete customization of all mob spawn parameters. Although I feel this is somewhat overkill. For example:
Zombie spawn rate: Never/Low/Medium/High
Zombie spawn locations: Everywhere/Only underground/Deep/Very deep
Creeper spawn rate: Never/Low/Medium/High
Creeper spawn locations: Everywhere/Only underground/Deep/Very deep
etc...
Advantages:
Full customization of everything, play the game how you like
Nobody can complain, just play it how you liked before if you're not happy!
Disadvantages:
Complicated system, pain in the **** to configure
More work to implement
Additional work as development continues. Additional options have to be added for new mobs etc. (this alone probably makes it not such a good idea)
Conclusion
Minecraft is an excellent blend of sandbox and survival gameplay, however the current difficulty levels only tend to cater for "one or the other", and don't add much interest to the game. Re-working the difficulty levels to affect mob spawn rates would not only be a relatively simple modification to the game, but (if done correctly) would enhance gameplay substantially and provide for a much more interesting and varied experience.
ps. This comes from someone who has a genuine love for Minecraft and who is excited to see it blossom into a fully fledged game, rather than someone "just looking forward to the next cool gadget/block" :smile.gif:
The problem is that creepers spawn at the same rate as all the other mobs. They should be more of a rare threat then a explosive pack guarantee. If you caught out lat and are making a mad dash for your base it seems wrong to see a pack of 5 creepers between you and your front door.
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Playing Minecraft since [Friday, March 19, 2010, 9:20:21 PM] (First indev world save)
The problem is that creepers spawn at the same rate as all the other mobs. They should be more of a rare threat then a explosive pack guarantee. If you caught out lat and are making a mad dash for your base it seems wrong to see a pack of 5 creepers between you and your front door.
That'd no doubt be an improvement, but seems too much like just hacking the current behaviour, rather than fixing the fundamental problem of "spend hours building something, then have it blown up" that I often see people complaining about. It also doesn't change the fact that the difficulty settings are pretty uninteresting. You either have all mobs or none.
This poll, which shows more people actually play on peaceful *only* to avoid creepers, rather then hostile mobs in general
First of all, you can't cite a random public poll as evidence, and even so, creepers got only around 1/4th of the votes.
Second, if we are going to balance game play as in the first option, it needs to be medium centered, not easy centered. Minecraft is easy enough as it is, and although I do think we need more difficulty contrast, making medium and and easy easer is not the solution.
Third, I support the second option fully, but it has already been suggested before in the "Custom Difficulty" thread.
Second, if we are going to balance game play as in the first option, it needs to be medium centered, not easy centered. Minecraft is easy enough as it is, and although I do think we need more difficulty contrast, making medium and and easy easer is not the solution.
Yes, as medium is typically known as "normal" it should be the base, where everything happens in an unabridged fashion. Easy should make the normal things easier. And hard should make them harder. Not hard has everything, and normal just contains less.
I support the idea of custom difficulties. I also believe that health should regenerate VERY slowly in easy and maybe INCREDIBLY SLOW THAT IT IS NOT EVEN NOTICEABLE in medium for the luls.
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The fact that cats go bark is scientifically unproven to be 100% false.
First of all, you can't cite a random public poll as evidence,
I don't really see why not, nor am I exactly sure what constitutes "official evidence". I'm sorry if you don't find public polls satisfactory, I'm not sure what else I can cite?
and even so, creepers got only around 1/4th of the votes.
Indeed, and although I would have thought the opinion of 1/4 of Minecraft players would provide sufficient motivation to at least consider the problem, my point was not really to do with the number of people who hate creepers compared to the number of people who play Minecraft in total. I was simply trying to point out that out of the people who do play on peaceful, more of them do so entirely because of creepers, than hostile mobs in general. Ie. I was drawing a comparison between the "Creepers" option and the "Hostile Mobs" & "Spiders" options.
In any case, I'm not particularly interested in a statistics discussion. I started the thread to encourage debate about the possibility of difficulty settings affecting mob spawn rates & locations.
I believe that there are a significant number of people who would like the challenge of playing against hostile mobs, but whom are "forced" to play on peaceful, simply because of a single element of the game, which is a shame. Of course, I am one of them, otherwise this thread wouldn't be here! I do occasionally try to play on hard, but usually end up switching back once my tolerance for "stuff getting blown up" is exceeded *sigh*
I think ultimately it'd be sensible to have a more relevant poll to gauge public support, but that only makes sense once suggestions have been put forward. I don't want people to prematurely reject the idea just because people don't like my particular example of specific difficulty levels (which really is just an example, nothing more)
Second, if we are going to balance game play as in the first option, it needs to be medium centered, not easy centered. Minecraft is easy enough as it is, and although I do think we need more difficulty contrast, making medium and and easy easer is not the solution.
I agree with this entirely. Establishing what constitutes "normal" should always be the first priority, but I think where mobs spawn and how often should be a significant part of that, if not more-so than the amount of damage they deal.
Third, I support the second option fully, but it has already been suggested before in the "Custom Difficulty" thread.
Sorry, I hadn't seen that thread. As you might have guessed it was more of a passing thought as I was typing the rest of the post! I just wanted to get the ball rolling wrt other ideas.
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The problem
Currently, there are three non-peaceful difficulty levels, Easy Medium and Hard, the only major difference between these being the amount of damage dealt by mobs. I frequently see comments from people who would like to play against mobs, but only end up playing on peaceful, simply because they find it too frustrating when creepers explode and destroy their creations. Among other evidence for this, there is:
- This poll, which shows more people actually play on peaceful *only* to avoid creepers, rather then hostile mobs in general
- This wiki section, suggesting to constantly switch between peaceful and non-peaceful modes to avoid mobs in only certain situations. Not only is this a complete pain to do, but also gives a feeling of "cheating" by simply turning mobs off when it gets too hard (ie. no sense of achievement by staying alive at difficulty level X/Y/Z)
In addition, from a new player's perspective, if you have initially learnt to play on peaceful (as I did), then it's a massive step up to "Easy" mode, where you're suddenly being blown up by creepers and attacked by skeletons.Potential solution: Re-balance difficulty levels
I propose that the difficulty levels should be re-balanced to affect mob spawn rates in different situations. As a rough example:
- Easy: Only zombies spawn at ground level, underground you'll also find spiders, then as you venture deeper underground, creepers and skeletons appear. Also includes reduced mob spawn rates.
- Medium: Same as easy, except mobs appear more frequently and at higher levels. Maybe spiders or skeletons at ground level, but not creepers.
- Hard: Same as it is now, mobs everywhere!
Advantages:- Should be relatively simple to code, only changes the rules determining where mobs can spawn
- Does not affect players that currently want to play on the hardest setting (so minimal whining?)
- Gives new players a challange without being too difficult
- New gameplay dynamic: Game gets harder the deeper underground you go. Adds additional risk to accessing diamonds, gold etc.
- Difficulty levels still consistent for the purposes of challanges (ie. my "Easy" setting is the same as another person's "Easy" setting)
- Fits well with future development, new mobs can be added to difficulty levels as appropriate
Cons:Potential solution: Custom difficulty levels
Another solution would be to allow complete customization of all mob spawn parameters. Although I feel this is somewhat overkill. For example:
- Zombie spawn rate: Never/Low/Medium/High
- Zombie spawn locations: Everywhere/Only underground/Deep/Very deep
- Creeper spawn rate: Never/Low/Medium/High
- Creeper spawn locations: Everywhere/Only underground/Deep/Very deep
- etc...
Advantages:- Full customization of everything, play the game how you like
- Nobody can complain, just play it how you liked before if you're not happy!
Disadvantages:Conclusion
Minecraft is an excellent blend of sandbox and survival gameplay, however the current difficulty levels only tend to cater for "one or the other", and don't add much interest to the game. Re-working the difficulty levels to affect mob spawn rates would not only be a relatively simple modification to the game, but (if done correctly) would enhance gameplay substantially and provide for a much more interesting and varied experience.
ps. This comes from someone who has a genuine love for Minecraft and who is excited to see it blossom into a fully fledged game, rather than someone "just looking forward to the next cool gadget/block" :smile.gif:
Edit: I put it on GetSatisfaction too so feel free to vote: http://gsfn.us/t/2ay65
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Playing Minecraft since [Friday, March 19, 2010, 9:20:21 PM] (First indev world save)
That'd no doubt be an improvement, but seems too much like just hacking the current behaviour, rather than fixing the fundamental problem of "spend hours building something, then have it blown up" that I often see people complaining about. It also doesn't change the fact that the difficulty settings are pretty uninteresting. You either have all mobs or none.
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First of all, you can't cite a random public poll as evidence, and even so, creepers got only around 1/4th of the votes.
Second, if we are going to balance game play as in the first option, it needs to be medium centered, not easy centered. Minecraft is easy enough as it is, and although I do think we need more difficulty contrast, making medium and and easy easer is not the solution.
Third, I support the second option fully, but it has already been suggested before in the "Custom Difficulty" thread.
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Retired StaffYes, as medium is typically known as "normal" it should be the base, where everything happens in an unabridged fashion. Easy should make the normal things easier. And hard should make them harder. Not hard has everything, and normal just contains less.
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I don't really see why not, nor am I exactly sure what constitutes "official evidence". I'm sorry if you don't find public polls satisfactory, I'm not sure what else I can cite?
Indeed, and although I would have thought the opinion of 1/4 of Minecraft players would provide sufficient motivation to at least consider the problem, my point was not really to do with the number of people who hate creepers compared to the number of people who play Minecraft in total. I was simply trying to point out that out of the people who do play on peaceful, more of them do so entirely because of creepers, than hostile mobs in general. Ie. I was drawing a comparison between the "Creepers" option and the "Hostile Mobs" & "Spiders" options.
In any case, I'm not particularly interested in a statistics discussion. I started the thread to encourage debate about the possibility of difficulty settings affecting mob spawn rates & locations.
I believe that there are a significant number of people who would like the challenge of playing against hostile mobs, but whom are "forced" to play on peaceful, simply because of a single element of the game, which is a shame. Of course, I am one of them, otherwise this thread wouldn't be here! I do occasionally try to play on hard, but usually end up switching back once my tolerance for "stuff getting blown up" is exceeded *sigh*
I think ultimately it'd be sensible to have a more relevant poll to gauge public support, but that only makes sense once suggestions have been put forward. I don't want people to prematurely reject the idea just because people don't like my particular example of specific difficulty levels (which really is just an example, nothing more)
I agree with this entirely. Establishing what constitutes "normal" should always be the first priority, but I think where mobs spawn and how often should be a significant part of that, if not more-so than the amount of damage they deal.
Sorry, I hadn't seen that thread. As you might have guessed it was more of a passing thought as I was typing the rest of the post! I just wanted to get the ball rolling wrt other ideas.