Okay. About the minecarts, what we have tried to do in a server was make a subway station. When it came to the auto-loading system for the carts however, there's a problem. In the case that one station is used more often than the others, one of the stations will eventually run out of carts.
The easiest and maybe the only real solution to this is to have two carts on each of the stations, and when a third cart arrives, another one from that station leaves, empty or not, to the other station, and thus, keeping a balance between the stations.
BUT. Since the carts are very slow when they're empty, you'd need quite a large number of boosters for the carts to be able to reach the other station empty. triple, or maybe even quadruple the amount you'd normally need. I honestly find the carts being slower when empty QUITE WEIRD.
Honestly, I think the carts should have the same speed, empty or not. It's closer to being more realistic that way, and honestly would solve my problem here nicely.
And about the maps, I just held one up today, faced in the upper direction according to the map. I looked at the sky, and oh my! The sun was coming up from the direction I was facing! This either means the maps we draw in the game have East on their upper side, while it should be North, or, the sun does come up from the north in the Minecraft world. :|
TLDR; Empty minecarts should be as fast as ones with a passenger, and the maps show East on the upper side, while with most normal maps it should be North.
You do know Minecraft is in BETA? Its not a released game, and even released games have problems. Notch has fixed loads of bugs in 1.6 - 1.6.6, but I do see why you are annoyed
imo, that's constructive criticism. we're all beta testers after all.
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imo, that's constructive criticism. we're all beta testers after all.
Thanks.
I'm just pointing these out because I didn't see anybody else post about it. Just stating my opinion here.
If they'll be worked on or not, and when they'll be worked on if ever, is not something I have power over of course.
I honestly find the carts being slower when empty QUITE WEIRD.
They move just as fast, it's just that they have less momentum so that they loose the speed much faster. It's not wierd and it is in fact highly realistic, considering the breaking forces (friction from wheels and air) is roughly the same for a empty and a ocupied minecart.
Imagin a car and a bike going down a flat road doing 40 km/h.
Then the car gets put in neutral, and the biker stop pedaling.
Even though the car have wastly more breaking forces then the bike (since the car is bigger and got more friction in it's wheels), the bike will still stop first. Since the car is a LOT heavier. If you don't believe me, try it out.
They move just as fast, it's just that they have less momentum so that they loose the speed much faster. It's not wierd and it is in fact highly realistic, considering the breaking forces (friction from wheels and air) is roughly the same for a empty and a ocupied minecart.
Imagin a car and a bike going down a flat road doing 40 km/h.
Then the car gets put in neutral, and the biker stop pedaling.
Even though the car have wastly more breaking forces then the bike (since the car is bigger and got more friction in it's wheels), the bike will still stop first. Since the car is a LOT heavier. If you don't believe me, try it out.
Quite true.
But, there are other things you should consider here, like the boosters.
Now, the boosters give a certain momentum over the cart. And an empty cart being lighter, it should be much faster with the same amount of force that is applied to it. Now we know that carts have a certain speed they're limited at, but they also keep an inner momentum which is used up over time to keep them at that same top speed until it's all used up, and they finally start slowing down.
So, while it's true that they should slow down quicker, they should also go faster to begin with, when the same force is applied on them.
Which kind of leads to the same conclusion by practical means.
And, one last thing I want to say. The carts slow down TOO fast, even if considering they should slow down faster. An empty cart can only go (approximately) 8 or so blocks from full speed before it comes to a stop, while a full one goes for, you know, at least a few dozen.
You're assuming that in Minecraft's world the compass is aligned with our own. Perhaps in Mineland they decided that "up" on maps should be the direction in which the sun sets and thus our East is their North.
I'm not sure how I feel about empty minecarts moving slower than full ones. One could argue that a full minecart pushes into the booster more and thus gets more force; but a heavier minecart would require more force to move at the same speed. However, the force could be geometrically proportional to weight; that would make it work as-is. My favorite narrative is that all powered rails are sort of like a detector rail; perhaps they're *always* providing a weak amount of force but they only push hard if they detect a full minecart passing by. It's easy to imagine a circuit that works like this.
There is one use for having a different speed for full/empty minecarts: it helps design track circuits that can detect empty carts. Detector rails fire for both full and empty minecarts. But you know a full minecart's going to move 4-8x faster than an empty one. It's possible to make a system where a detector rail is passed that switches an upcoming curve after some delay; with the appropriate delay full minecarts will take one path while empty ones take another.
I'm not even sure if it's practical to make a return line for the rails; I recently noticed some of my minecarts in a continuous loop seemed to be disappearing. It turns out my rail system crossed a chunk boundary, and as I played eventually one of the chunks would get unloaded. Then my minecart would fall off the edge of the loaded chunk into oblivion. :sad.gif:
*edit*
I suppose to be technically correct I need to say when I say empty carts are slower, I mean they slow down faster and thus at some distance x from the last powered rail their velocity is slower by some factor. Thus at some greater distance cx empty carts will be much slower.
You're assuming that in Minecraft's world the compass is aligned with our own. Perhaps in Mineland they decided that "up" on maps should be the direction in which the sun sets and thus our East is their North.
In that case, they need not fix anything about the maps. I merely pointed it out in the case it WAS a mistake.
And about your comment on the carts, I do know that in some cases empty carts going slower is useful, like when you accidentally push your cart over a booster, and have to catch up with it. But, they slow down so quick, it's strange. like they're made out of cardboard instead of iron. Iron's a heavy material, it should not be slowing down that quick.
I for one am glad empty carts don't scoot very far, I've chased enough as it is. This also allows for empty cart detection and subsequent retrieval.
I am under the impression that if your system were to work as envisioned, the empty cart would travel 144 blocks (9 chunksX16), the chunk would unload and the cart would stop, further clogging up the system.
East is up and South and West are positive coords- adjust and maybe mark astronaut off your list of things to be, because up is often down at the same time...
You're assuming that in Minecraft's world the compass is aligned with our own. Perhaps in Mineland they decided that "up" on maps should be the direction in which the sun sets and thus our East is their North.
Although that may be true, I think it's needlessly counter-intuitive to make them work differently from their real world equivalent.
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Better Than Wolves Mod WARNING: May cause addiction and/or skull detonation. Handle with care.
And, one last thing I want to say. The carts slow down TOO fast, even if considering they should slow down faster. An empty cart can only go (approximately) 8 or so blocks from full speed before it comes to a stop, while a full one goes for, you know, at least a few dozen.
Agreed, they do slow down too fast to be used empty. Usualy that is a good thing as it prevent runaway carts from getting too far, as most minecart systems aren't designed to send empty carts. But for more advanced minecart systems it's a problem.
Personaly i'd prefere if the current carts stay as they are, but that another cart type where added that didn't slow down when empty. Or that we'd get the ability to fill minecarts in a way that made them act as ocupied. Since removing the slowdown would cause much more problems in general then it would solve. But i too would prefere if there where a way to avoid the slowdown for those who need to.
Personaly i'd prefere if the current carts stay as they are, but that another cart type where added that didn't slow down when empty. Or that we'd get the ability to fill minecarts in a way that made them act as ocupied. Since removing the slowdown would cause much more problems in general then it would solve. But i too would prefere if there where a way to avoid the slowdown for those who need to.
That's actually something a friend of mine also suggested. Of course having both kinds is best. Maybe carts could have different kinds associated with different ores, like the tools and weapons do.
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The easiest and maybe the only real solution to this is to have two carts on each of the stations, and when a third cart arrives, another one from that station leaves, empty or not, to the other station, and thus, keeping a balance between the stations.
BUT. Since the carts are very slow when they're empty, you'd need quite a large number of boosters for the carts to be able to reach the other station empty. triple, or maybe even quadruple the amount you'd normally need. I honestly find the carts being slower when empty QUITE WEIRD.
Honestly, I think the carts should have the same speed, empty or not. It's closer to being more realistic that way, and honestly would solve my problem here nicely.
And about the maps, I just held one up today, faced in the upper direction according to the map. I looked at the sky, and oh my! The sun was coming up from the direction I was facing! This either means the maps we draw in the game have East on their upper side, while it should be North, or, the sun does come up from the north in the Minecraft world. :|
TLDR; Empty minecarts should be as fast as ones with a passenger, and the maps show East on the upper side, while with most normal maps it should be North.
imo, that's constructive criticism. we're all beta testers after all.
Thanks.
I'm just pointing these out because I didn't see anybody else post about it. Just stating my opinion here.
If they'll be worked on or not, and when they'll be worked on if ever, is not something I have power over of course.
They move just as fast, it's just that they have less momentum so that they loose the speed much faster. It's not wierd and it is in fact highly realistic, considering the breaking forces (friction from wheels and air) is roughly the same for a empty and a ocupied minecart.
Imagin a car and a bike going down a flat road doing 40 km/h.
Then the car gets put in neutral, and the biker stop pedaling.
Even though the car have wastly more breaking forces then the bike (since the car is bigger and got more friction in it's wheels), the bike will still stop first. Since the car is a LOT heavier. If you don't believe me, try it out.
Warning: Content of link might be highly addictive.
Quite true.
But, there are other things you should consider here, like the boosters.
Now, the boosters give a certain momentum over the cart. And an empty cart being lighter, it should be much faster with the same amount of force that is applied to it. Now we know that carts have a certain speed they're limited at, but they also keep an inner momentum which is used up over time to keep them at that same top speed until it's all used up, and they finally start slowing down.
So, while it's true that they should slow down quicker, they should also go faster to begin with, when the same force is applied on them.
Which kind of leads to the same conclusion by practical means.
And, one last thing I want to say. The carts slow down TOO fast, even if considering they should slow down faster. An empty cart can only go (approximately) 8 or so blocks from full speed before it comes to a stop, while a full one goes for, you know, at least a few dozen.
I'm not sure how I feel about empty minecarts moving slower than full ones. One could argue that a full minecart pushes into the booster more and thus gets more force; but a heavier minecart would require more force to move at the same speed. However, the force could be geometrically proportional to weight; that would make it work as-is. My favorite narrative is that all powered rails are sort of like a detector rail; perhaps they're *always* providing a weak amount of force but they only push hard if they detect a full minecart passing by. It's easy to imagine a circuit that works like this.
There is one use for having a different speed for full/empty minecarts: it helps design track circuits that can detect empty carts. Detector rails fire for both full and empty minecarts. But you know a full minecart's going to move 4-8x faster than an empty one. It's possible to make a system where a detector rail is passed that switches an upcoming curve after some delay; with the appropriate delay full minecarts will take one path while empty ones take another.
I'm not even sure if it's practical to make a return line for the rails; I recently noticed some of my minecarts in a continuous loop seemed to be disappearing. It turns out my rail system crossed a chunk boundary, and as I played eventually one of the chunks would get unloaded. Then my minecart would fall off the edge of the loaded chunk into oblivion. :sad.gif:
*edit*
I suppose to be technically correct I need to say when I say empty carts are slower, I mean they slow down faster and thus at some distance x from the last powered rail their velocity is slower by some factor. Thus at some greater distance cx empty carts will be much slower.
In that case, they need not fix anything about the maps. I merely pointed it out in the case it WAS a mistake.
And about your comment on the carts, I do know that in some cases empty carts going slower is useful, like when you accidentally push your cart over a booster, and have to catch up with it. But, they slow down so quick, it's strange. like they're made out of cardboard instead of iron. Iron's a heavy material, it should not be slowing down that quick.
I am under the impression that if your system were to work as envisioned, the empty cart would travel 144 blocks (9 chunksX16), the chunk would unload and the cart would stop, further clogging up the system.
East is up and South and West are positive coords- adjust and maybe mark astronaut off your list of things to be, because up is often down at the same time...
Although that may be true, I think it's needlessly counter-intuitive to make them work differently from their real world equivalent.
Better Than Wolves Mod WARNING: May cause addiction and/or skull detonation. Handle with care.
Agreed, they do slow down too fast to be used empty. Usualy that is a good thing as it prevent runaway carts from getting too far, as most minecart systems aren't designed to send empty carts. But for more advanced minecart systems it's a problem.
Personaly i'd prefere if the current carts stay as they are, but that another cart type where added that didn't slow down when empty. Or that we'd get the ability to fill minecarts in a way that made them act as ocupied. Since removing the slowdown would cause much more problems in general then it would solve. But i too would prefere if there where a way to avoid the slowdown for those who need to.
Warning: Content of link might be highly addictive.
That's actually something a friend of mine also suggested. Of course having both kinds is best. Maybe carts could have different kinds associated with different ores, like the tools and weapons do.