I always found it rather lame that you can place a bed down and sleep just about anywhere in the Overworld, including out in the open in a completely unlit area, or even in the middle of a dark, scary cave, so as long as there's no monsters within a few blocks. Wouldn't it make more sense if you had to find a safe place to sleep? Yeah, it would, which is why i came up with this idea.
If you sleep in an are considered "unsafe," like outside in the open, there's a high chance you'll be woken up and attacked by a random monster depending on the biome and depth you're currently at. For example, you're in the middle of the forest, it's just turning night and you decide to place a bed down and sleep. Instead of waking up in the morning, you wake up at a completely random time of the night, with a Creeper in front of you about to detonate. Unless you back away or push it away quick enough, you're likely to die.
This can happen with a number of other mobs as well, the most common being Zombies, Creepers, Skeletons, and Spiders. If you're in a snow biome or desert it can also be a Stray or Husk respectively, if you're near an ocean it can also be a Drowned, and if you're in a Swamp it can be a Slime. On rare occasions, it can be a Zombie Villager or Witch, and on very very rare occasions it can be a Spider Jockey. If you're sleeping during a raid, it can even be a Pillager, Vindicator, Evoker, or Ravager that wakes you up. In a mansion that has at least 1 Vindicator or Evoker still alive in it, it can be one of those that wakes you up if you are in a place where they can reach you. Akin to mansions, in an ocean monument that has at least 1 Guardian or Elder Guardian left in it, it can be one of those that wakes you up if you are in a place they can reach you. And finally, in a Stronghold, it can be a Silverfish that wakes you up, but only if you are near a Silverfish, or the Silverfish spawner. Other hostile mobs I did not mention above can also cause wake-up surprises, but only if they are nearby and able to pathfind to you. Phantoms are the only hostile mobs that cannot cause wake-up surprises at all.
Uniquely, if a monster cannot pathfind to you, but there is a closed door nearby which WOULD allow mobs to pathfind you if it were open, you are instead given a chance of waking up to a Zombie beating on your door, but this is not as common.
You might wonder, how would the game detect whether or not the area you're in is "safe" or "unsafe?" Well it works like this; whenever you sleep, the game checks to see if there are any mobs nearby, as well as spots nearby where mobs could spawn, such as monster spawners or dark areas that aren't within a few blocks of the player, and checks to see whether a nearby monster could successfully pathfind to you over the course of the night. If they can, then you are at risk of being woken up by a mob, and this risk increases more and more based on how many monsters or valid monster spawn points are near you, how easy it is to pathfind to you, and how much time is left in the night. Doing something like sleeping in a small dark room with a blocked entrance would not cause a wake-up surprise despite the light level, as mobs cannot spawn that close to you, but sleeping outside in the open with no sort of protection around you, or next to a monster spawner, would basically guarantee that you will be woken up.
In multiplayer, only the player, or players, who get a wake-up surprise are kicked out of their bed. Other players who don't get a wake-up surprise just remain in their bed unless they willingly get up.
This kind of system would encourage players to find a safer place to sleep rather than just doing it anywhere. If they cannot make it to a house, then they can make a "temporary" safe zone to sleep in instead, or perhaps sleep up in a tree, as mobs likely could not pathfind to you there.
What do you think about this idea? I think it would be very interesting to see.
I agree, I've always found it to be a bit silly that beds can be used out in the open and just about anywhere in the Overworld except the ocean or beside blocks that would obstruct them.
even from a logical standpoint, beds should be used in secure bases that are well lit or at least are decorated with bottom half slabs or transparent blocks such as glass, otherwise use a mushroom island and away from mob spawners in caves, if you're too close to the shorelines of a mushroom island while using a bed, then you should get a surprise attack from a Drowned Zombie once in a while, and on normal and hard difficulties, they should have an increased odds of wielding tridents while doing this.
This would also increase the challenge even against players wearing enchanted armour, because in other biomes you'd have a chance of being attacked by a Witch, and Witch potions can bypass the invulnerability of armour, the longest duration poison potion is capable of taking players on full health all the way down to half a heart, the next hit is fatal meaning players need to take cover, use honey bottle or drink a milk bucket which is a non stackable item.
Night time needs to be made scary again as it was in older versions of the game.
When beds receive this nerf, among other nerfs that are needed such as not allowing players to sleep in other player beds, only the one's they crafted themselves, and preventing players from abusing exploits that allow them to skip night time on servers by logging out while other people use their beds, forcing said players who left the server at night to wait out a cooldown period before they can log back into the server, then beds would be balanced and function how they should, everyone is encouraged to craft and use beds and people also have to use beds in a secure base, not in the wilderness, if they want to avoid the risk of being woken up at night.
If I recall correctly, this is similar to how it was implemented when beds were first implemented in beta 1.3.
I'm not sure why they removed that -- it was actually a really fun feature to have in the game.
I agree, I know it would inconvenience players somewhat but this is survival mode, there are already plenty of viable options for spawn proofing player territory so it is not unreasonable to expect players to place beds in a spawn proofed area that eliminates all angles of hostile mob pathfinding.
In most cases the Overworld is too easy now, and the OPness of beds is one of the reasons.
How beds were originally designed was proper and felt fitting for survival mode,
and it gave players more incentive to build houses, safe houses I mean, which rewards base building and interior design.
I might support re-adding the original mechanics but including creepers is going way too far due to how destructive and deadly they are; mobs should also only spawn out in the open (my idea for how it can work is to try to spawn a mob within, say, 16 blocks on a block that is exposed to the sky and dark enough and allows pathfinding to the player; at its simplest they may spawn even if the player is inside a shelter but lighting up the area around them would avoid it; sure, you could still just place down a bed in the open but at least you'd need to light up the area to a light level of at least 8, the original spawnproofing level).
I might support re-adding the original mechanics but including creepers is going way too far due to how destructive and deadly they are; mobs should also only spawn out in the open (my idea for how it can work is to try to spawn a mob within, say, 16 blocks on a block that is exposed to the sky and dark enough and allows pathfinding to the player; at its simplest they may spawn even if the player is inside a shelter but lighting up the area around them would avoid it; sure, you could still just place down a bed in the open but at least you'd need to light up the area to a light level of at least 8, the original spawnproofing level).
Not to mention they can destroy the bed the player is using which would then reset the player spawn location to origin.
But again, there are ways around the problem, you can secure a cave with torches and block off dark passage ways with gates and fences which are cheap to make, since you make a habit out of mining which is the point of the game you of all people would know how easy caves are to find. They can be dangerous to explore initially especially without armour, however the danger in exploring caves exists whether you use a bed or not.
Players who haven't yet built a house can simply light up a cave after making charcoal with logs and furnaces after chopping down some trees and gathering a bit of cobblestone. This is basic stuff that can be done on day one in the world. And they only need 2 bits of raw iron to make a pair of shears after smelting them into ingots, which can be used to shear sheep and gather wool. Considering how easy beds are to access early game I'd think they need some kind of balance or downside to them. They have some downsides already, such as players cannot sleep if there are monsters nearby, but I don't feel this is enough which brings us to the point OP made in this thread.
Players need more incentives to secure their beds, which are at risk of being destroyed by Creepers even without the hostile mob ability to wake players up at night if used out in the open in any land based biome that isn't mushroom fields. However beds can be used at sunset which is just before hostile mobs usually spawn, meaning players can skip the danger of night completely, to balance this, the original mechanics need to be reimplemented to discourage using beds out in the wilderness, meaning traveling far away from home comes with some calculated risk on the player's part once again.
Now THIS is a good idea. This also sets an example of how good suggestions should be written: full of detail and covers every base as just about every angle was thought of. Complete support.
Not sure about Creepers being right up in your face, though.
Now THIS is a good idea. This also sets an example of how good suggestions should be written: full of detail and covers every base as just about every angle was thought of. Complete support.
Not sure about Creepers being right up in your face, though.
It would not explode immediately, when I said "about to detonate" I meant the very beginning of it's hissing, not the end, so you would have time to back away or attack it unless you aren't prepared, or don't expect it.
I'm aware, but this is intended to be a far more detailed and logical "remake" of that feature.
It would not explode immediately, when I said "about to detonate" I meant the very beginning of it's hissing, not the end, so you would have time to back away or attack it unless you aren't prepared, or don't expect it.
The delay can't be too long otherwise it would mean the Creepers would almost never succeed in either killing the player or destroying their bed if they survive the close range blast as a result of an enchantment. I do agree it needs to be fair but it has to be something that punishes the player for not paying attention or taking the unnecessary risk for placing beds out in the open at night.
I propose setting the detonation timer just 1 second after the player is awoken out of their bed, this would mean the player gets a total of 2.5 seconds before the explosion, giving them a bit of time to see what is going on, but not too long that they can just stand around like a noob
The delay can't be too long otherwise it would mean the Creepers would almost never succeed in either killing the player or destroying their bed if they survive the close range blast as a result of an enchantment. I do agree it needs to be fair but it has to be something that punishes the player for not paying attention or taking the unnecessary risk for placing beds out in the open at night.
I propose setting the detonation timer just 1 second after the player is awoken out of their bed, this would mean the player gets a total of 2.5 seconds before the explosion, giving them a bit of time to see what is going on, but not too long that they can just stand around like a noob
and let themself be attacked.
Okay, sure. I just don't want to outright EXCLUDE them from the mechanic because it wouldn't make sense, considering they're common monsters. But I'm fine with your proposition.
I'm all for recovering the need for preparedness in exploration and this is a great step in that direction. However, I feel like mobs shouldn't be able to spawn in the very vicinity of the player (say, up to 8 blocks in each direction), just as they cannot do so when you're awake. They should just be able to pathfind towards the player. I'm not saying this so players can't woken up with mobs right next to them, just that the mob-"spawnability"-check should ignore players' vicinity. As silly as being able to sleep out in the open with monsters out to get you, it would also be silly to expect monsters to "materialize" in a very small enclosure around you during the night. Moreover, for roleplaying reasons, players should be able to sleep in houses with the lights off.
Finally, current sleeping mechanics should remain the same in Easy difficulty and half-sleep should be sufficient to ward off phantoms in both Easy and Normal difficulties.
I'm all for recovering the need for preparedness in exploration and this is a great step in that direction. However, I feel like mobs shouldn't be able to spawn in the very vicinity of the player (say, up to 8 blocks in each direction), just as they cannot do so when you're awake. They should just be able to pathfind towards the player. I'm not saying this so players can't woken up with mobs right next to them, just that the mob-"spawnability"-check should ignore players' vicinity. As silly as being able to sleep out in the open with monsters out to get you, it would also be silly to expect monsters to "materialize" in a very small enclosure around you during the night. Moreover, for roleplaying reasons, players should be able to sleep in houses with the lights off.
Finally, current sleeping mechanics should remain the same in Easy difficulty and half-sleep should be sufficient to ward off phantoms in both Easy and Normal difficulties.
...did you not read the whole thread? I thoroughly explained how the mechanic would work, and the way it would work would not allow mobs to "materialize" right next to you with no way they could get there, it only happens if the game decides that a monster could successfully pathfind to you over the course of the night.
As for your second statement, I'm fine with this mechanic being excluded from Easy mode.
I read, but apparently misinterpreted it, no need for contemptuous rhetorical questions. By "within a few blocks from the player", I thought you meant just a couple, whereas I consider the vicinity of a player to be about the size of a chunk. I made that remark because I believe villager houses should be safe places to sleep regardless of light levels.
Phantoms can be challenging enough for most players as they are. It can be overwhelming to fend off a "surprise skeleton" + phantom combo for what should be considered normal difficulty. It feels unreasonable to be attacked by phantoms in the middle of an attempt to ward them off.
I read, but apparently misinterpreted it, no need for contemptuous rhetorical questions. By "within a few blocks from the player", I thought you meant just a couple, whereas I consider the vicinity of a player to be about the size of a chunk. I made that remark because I believe villager houses should be safe places to sleep regardless of light levels.
Phantoms can be challenging enough for most players as they are. It can be overwhelming to fend off a "surprise skeleton" + phantom combo for what should be considered normal difficulty. It feels unreasonable to be attacked by phantoms in the middle of an attempt to ward them off.
Phantoms are exempt from this, as they attack you for not sleeping, so they obviously aren't going to attack you if you're now sleeping.
I've implemented this feature in my own mod, using code I found from Beta, with some slight modifications (I added an additional 5 attempts using a smaller range to increase the chance of a mob spawning inside an unlit structure, otherwise an open area has to be spawnproofed within a 31 block radius to be 100% safe (in this case this means a light level of at least 6; sky light is entirely ignored so you can't sleep right at sunset before it is dark enough), and in any case a mob is not guaranteed to spawn), and I added a 20% chance of a witch (40% each of a zombie or skeleton, including any biome-specific variants):
// Based on code from Beta 1.7.3; spawns hostile mobs near players in unsafe locations
public boolean performSleepSpawning(WorldServer world)
{
// Overrides normal light level checks to ignore sky light (e.g. player sleeps at sunset)
lightCheckType = SLEEP_SPAWNING;
boolean spawnedMob = false;
Iterator it = world.playerEntities.iterator();
while (it.hasNext())
{
EntityPlayer player = (EntityPlayer)it.next();
if (!player.capabilities.isCreativeMode)
{
int posX = MathHelper.floor_double(player.posX);
int posY = MathHelper.floor_double(player.posY);
int posZ = MathHelper.floor_double(player.posZ);
attemptSpawning:
for (int i = 0; i < 25; ++i)
{
// Chooses a random location between 2 and 31 blocks away from player (circular); y is +/- 15 blocks; the last
// 5 attempts use a reduced range of xz +/- 7 and y +/- 3
int ox;
int oz;
do
{
if (i < 20)
{
ox = nextInt(32) - nextInt(32);
oz = nextInt(32) - nextInt(32);
}
else
{
ox = nextInt(15) - 7;
oz = nextInt(15) - 7;
}
}
while (ox * ox + oz * oz <= 2 || ox * ox + oz * oz >= 1024);
int range = (i < 20 ? 16 : 4);
int x = posX + ox;
int y = Math.max(1, Math.min(256, posY + nextInt(range) - nextInt(range)));
int z = posZ + oz;
Chunk chunk = world.getChunkFromBlockCoords(posX, posZ);
int minY = Math.max(Math.max(0, posY - range), y - range);
do
{
if (this.isPositionClear(chunk, x & 15, y, z & 15))
{
// 20% chance of a witch and 40% each of a zombie or skeleton
int chance = nextInt(5);
EntityLiving mob = (chance == 0 ? new EntityWitch(world) : (chance <= 2 ? new EntityZombieTMCW(world) : new EntitySkeletonTMCW(world)));
mob.setLocationAndAngles((double)x + 0.5D, (double)y, (double)z + 0.5D, 0.0F, 0.0F);
if (mob.getCanSpawnHere())
{
// Parameters are mob, toTarget, searchRange, passOpenDoors, passClosedDoors, avoidsWater, canSwim
PathEntity path = world.getPathEntityToEntity(mob, player, 32.0F, true, false, false, true);
if (path != null)
{
PathPoint point = path.getFinalPathPoint();
if (point != null && Math.abs(point.xCoord - player.posX) < 1.5D && Math.abs(point.zCoord - player.posZ) < 1.5D && Math.abs(point.yCoord - player.posY) < 1.5D)
{
// 1 means not to use the first valid location found (0) so it is not the same as the player
ChunkCoordinates pos = BlockBed.getNearestEmptyChunkCoordinates(world, posX, posY, posZ, 1);
if (pos != null)
{
mob.setLocationAndAngles((double)pos.posX + 0.5D, (double)pos.posY, (double)pos.posZ + 0.5D, (float)nextInt(360), 0.0F);
world.spawnEntityInWorld(mob);
mob.onSpawnWithEgg((EntityLivingData)null);
player.wakeUpPlayer(true, true, false);
spawnedMob = true;
break attemptSpawning;
}
}
}
}
break;
}
--y;
}
while (y > minY);
}
}
}
lightCheckType = NORMAL;
return spawnedMob;
}
Here are links to the original source (the first is source for a mod for Beta 1.7.3 and is where I found the "peformSleepSpawning" method (the actual class is not present), and the second is the actual spawning code, which is in CSharp, but the code is almost identical to Java):
...did you not read the whole thread? I thoroughly explained how the mechanic would work, and the way it would work would not allow mobs to "materialize" right next to you with no way they could get there, it only happens if the game decides that a monster could successfully pathfind to you over the course of the night.
As for your second statement, I'm fine with this mechanic being excluded from Easy mode.
Which I suspect would be most nights, if out in a forest at night with nothing to prevent the pathfinding such as fences or 1 and a half block high walls, and even then spiders still manage to climb over them, but they stop their assault upon entering light level 8 if not aggroed, if I'm not mistaken. Even burying yourself in a 2x1 dirt hole doesn't guarantee no attack, as Endermen can remove any dirt block that is above you.
I have never experienced an instance where monsters wouldn't pathfind to us unless they were in a hole or blocked by a wall/fence or burying myself in a tiny hole like I mentioned, hostile mob AI is usually pretty good at this from what friends and I had witnessed, even in bedrock edition where supposedly is supposed to be "easier", from what I've witnessed mob AI is at least very similar if not completely the same. They do find players very well and appear to work as intended.
I don't dislike pathfinding, pathfinding is a logical mechanic but I wished passive mobs were as smart, because having to prevent Villagers or animals from falling into holes, even naturally generated ones, can be annoying sometimes. I know it is the responsibility of players to protect Villagers from attack against Zombies at night which is fine, but Villagers do not seem to do a good enough job at evading hazards and sometimes they even roam around outside their houses at night making it even more difficult to protect them from being Zombified or worse, turned into a Witch if struck by lightning.
What does this have to do with being awoken by monsters by using unguarded beds outside? not much, but it is possible for Zombified Villagers to then turn around and cause havoc for a player.
If we are attacked from taking unnecessary risks by using insecure beds, then it is our fault, but when Villagers are attacked and then turned into hostile mobs as a result of dodgy mechanics and Villagers making little effort in the way of self preservation, then we've got a problem. Although at least Zombies don't destroy beds. It can still be dangerous to take on a large number of them even with enchanted armour sometimes, especially if we are talking about Husks which initiate hunger status if they touch you, losing hunger points can then halt natural regeneration, but Zombies don't really destroy any object except wooden doors last time I checked, indirectly they can destroy crops if they fall on them if this counts.
I wished Zombies could break doors in Normal difficulty though, you can't even starve to death on this difficulty which makes no sense, and this also makes food less useful. If hostile mobs could awaken players for using insecure beds at night, then it would still be possible for Zombified Villagers to cause a problem, but wooden doors still slow them down which means there is still time for a Zombie to burn to death after dawn, eliminating the threat.
Hard difficulty has mechanics Normal should have now,
while Hard difficulty should have more challenges added on top and perhaps more restrictions on the use of beds,
such as not letting players use their beds just as the sun is setting, only after dusk/twilight, giving hostile mobs a chance to spawn.
I wished Zombies could break doors in Normal difficulty though, you can't even starve to death on this difficulty which makes no sense, and this also makes food less useful. If hostile mobs could awaken players for using insecure beds at night, then it would still be possible for Zombified Villagers to cause a problem, but wooden doors still slow them down which means there is still time for a Zombie to burn to death after dawn, eliminating the threat.
Hard difficulty has mechanics Normal should have now,
while Hard difficulty should have more challenges added on top and perhaps more restrictions on the use of beds,
such as not letting players use their beds just as the sun is setting, only after dusk/twilight, giving hostile mobs a chance to spawn.
One reason why I've never played on Hard is because zombies can break doors (although it is very easy to cheese - place the doorway 1 block above the ground or place the door so it is "open" when it appears to be closed, since zombies only attack "closed" doors), along with the disproportionate increase in creeper damage which requires insanely OP armor (this is much worse since 1.9 because of the "armor penetration" mechanic, which IMO should have remained exclusive to specific sources of damage, e.g,. potions of Harming, or in my implementation axes). I even nerfed player armor as well as creeper damage (from 80% to 66% and 49 to 36 respectively; the damage taken after armor is respectively 9.8 and 12, so you actuality take more damage, plus creepers don't stop moving during their countdown (a vanilla feature prior to 1.2); on Hard this is up to 18 damage (1.5x) and being left at one heart is quite dangerous (you say that "players can't starve to death on Normal so food is pointless" - but half a heart is a big deal as anything can easily kill you, so yes, food is still very important).
Of course, as you probably know I buffed mob armor (up to 10% on Easy, 20% on Normal, and 30% on Hard, the latter of which is double the vanilla chance; notably, in 1.8 they removed armored mobs entirely on Easy), including higher chances of better armor (I've seen 74 mobs in diamond or better (modded) armor at the rate of one every few days) and weapons (e.g. zombies have a 3.3-6.7-10% chance of weapons, compared to 1-1-5% in vanilla - why doesn't it increase at all from Easy to Normal?), removed "inhabited time" so the difficulty factor is only dependent on total playtime, rising to a fixed maximum after 100 hours (75 on Hard), which is essentially how the game was before 1.6 (Mojang made it sound like "regional difficulty" made the game harder when it actually made it easier, especially for players who constantly explore as I do, e.g. an inhabited time map of my current world, which I've spent over 1,000 hours on; green is around 25% of the maximum of 50 hours, which has only been reached around my main base/spawn), and allowed most "Hard only" features (e.g. zombies spawning reinforcements and spiders with potion effects) on all difficulties.
I also increased the density of mobs by reducing their (de)spawn range and split the mob cap into "cave" and "surface" caps (there are now more mobs on the surface at night and they start spawning as soon as it gets dark enough since mobs in caves don't need to despawn first; conversely, the number of mobs in caves remains constant throughout the day. At the same time, mobs only spawn 1/4 as often per chunk, nerfing farms, which rely on spawn rates more than the mob cap, while not impacting normal gameplay since the cap is still met in most situations and is probably necessary to be able to conquer large caves by allowing you to kill them fast enough (I killed over 4,000 mobs, averaging 669 per day, in one of the largest caves I explored, which is more than double the average in vanilla, about 275 in my first world prior to making my own "World1" mod, which implements some of the aforementioned changes, but to a lesser extent, recently averaging 337 per day).
Which I suspect would be most nights, if out in a forest at night with nothing to prevent the pathfinding such as fences or 1 and a half block high walls, and even then spiders still manage to climb over them, but they stop their assault upon entering light level 8 if not aggroed, if I'm not mistaken. Even burying yourself in a 2x1 dirt hole doesn't guarantee no attack, as Endermen can remove any dirt block that is above you.
I have never experienced an instance where monsters wouldn't pathfind to us unless they were in a hole or blocked by a wall/fence or burying myself in a tiny hole like I mentioned, hostile mob AI is usually pretty good at this from what friends and I had witnessed, even in bedrock edition where supposedly is supposed to be "easier", from what I've witnessed mob AI is at least very similar if not completely the same. They do find players very well and appear to work as intended.
I don't dislike pathfinding, pathfinding is a logical mechanic but I wished passive mobs were as smart, because having to prevent Villagers or animals from falling into holes, even naturally generated ones, can be annoying sometimes. I know it is the responsibility of players to protect Villagers from attack against Zombies at night which is fine, but Villagers do not seem to do a good enough job at evading hazards and sometimes they even roam around outside their houses at night making it even more difficult to protect them from being Zombified or worse, turned into a Witch if struck by lightning.
What does this have to do with being awoken by monsters by using unguarded beds outside? not much, but it is possible for Zombified Villagers to then turn around and cause havoc for a player.
If we are attacked from taking unnecessary risks by using insecure beds, then it is our fault, but when Villagers are attacked and then turned into hostile mobs as a result of dodgy mechanics and Villagers making little effort in the way of self preservation, then we've got a problem. Although at least Zombies don't destroy beds. It can still be dangerous to take on a large number of them even with enchanted armour sometimes, especially if we are talking about Husks which initiate hunger status if they touch you, losing hunger points can then halt natural regeneration, but Zombies don't really destroy any object except wooden doors last time I checked, indirectly they can destroy crops if they fall on them if this counts.
I wished Zombies could break doors in Normal difficulty though, you can't even starve to death on this difficulty which makes no sense, and this also makes food less useful. If hostile mobs could awaken players for using insecure beds at night, then it would still be possible for Zombified Villagers to cause a problem, but wooden doors still slow them down which means there is still time for a Zombie to burn to death after dawn, eliminating the threat.
Hard difficulty has mechanics Normal should have now,
while Hard difficulty should have more challenges added on top and perhaps more restrictions on the use of beds,
such as not letting players use their beds just as the sun is setting, only after dusk/twilight, giving hostile mobs a chance to spawn.
Do you realize how unlikely an Enderman removing a block would be? Plus, they can only pick up some blocks. Trapping yourself in a small room or hole would guarantee no attack as nothing can reach you.
I always found it rather lame that you can place a bed down and sleep just about anywhere in the Overworld, including out in the open in a completely unlit area, or even in the middle of a dark, scary cave, so as long as there's no monsters within a few blocks. Wouldn't it make more sense if you had to find a safe place to sleep? Yeah, it would, which is why i came up with this idea.
If you sleep in an are considered "unsafe," like outside in the open, there's a high chance you'll be woken up and attacked by a random monster depending on the biome and depth you're currently at. For example, you're in the middle of the forest, it's just turning night and you decide to place a bed down and sleep. Instead of waking up in the morning, you wake up at a completely random time of the night, with a Creeper in front of you about to detonate. Unless you back away or push it away quick enough, you're likely to die.
This can happen with a number of other mobs as well, the most common being Zombies, Creepers, Skeletons, and Spiders. If you're in a snow biome or desert it can also be a Stray or Husk respectively, if you're near an ocean it can also be a Drowned, and if you're in a Swamp it can be a Slime. On rare occasions, it can be a Zombie Villager or Witch, and on very very rare occasions it can be a Spider Jockey. If you're sleeping during a raid, it can even be a Pillager, Vindicator, Evoker, or Ravager that wakes you up. In a mansion that has at least 1 Vindicator or Evoker still alive in it, it can be one of those that wakes you up if you are in a place where they can reach you. Akin to mansions, in an ocean monument that has at least 1 Guardian or Elder Guardian left in it, it can be one of those that wakes you up if you are in a place they can reach you. And finally, in a Stronghold, it can be a Silverfish that wakes you up, but only if you are near a Silverfish, or the Silverfish spawner. Other hostile mobs I did not mention above can also cause wake-up surprises, but only if they are nearby and able to pathfind to you. Phantoms are the only hostile mobs that cannot cause wake-up surprises at all.
Uniquely, if a monster cannot pathfind to you, but there is a closed door nearby which WOULD allow mobs to pathfind you if it were open, you are instead given a chance of waking up to a Zombie beating on your door, but this is not as common.
You might wonder, how would the game detect whether or not the area you're in is "safe" or "unsafe?" Well it works like this; whenever you sleep, the game checks to see if there are any mobs nearby, as well as spots nearby where mobs could spawn, such as monster spawners or dark areas that aren't within a few blocks of the player, and checks to see whether a nearby monster could successfully pathfind to you over the course of the night. If they can, then you are at risk of being woken up by a mob, and this risk increases more and more based on how many monsters or valid monster spawn points are near you, how easy it is to pathfind to you, and how much time is left in the night. Doing something like sleeping in a small dark room with a blocked entrance would not cause a wake-up surprise despite the light level, as mobs cannot spawn that close to you, but sleeping outside in the open with no sort of protection around you, or next to a monster spawner, would basically guarantee that you will be woken up.
In multiplayer, only the player, or players, who get a wake-up surprise are kicked out of their bed. Other players who don't get a wake-up surprise just remain in their bed unless they willingly get up.
This kind of system would encourage players to find a safer place to sleep rather than just doing it anywhere. If they cannot make it to a house, then they can make a "temporary" safe zone to sleep in instead, or perhaps sleep up in a tree, as mobs likely could not pathfind to you there.
What do you think about this idea? I think it would be very interesting to see.
I agree, I've always found it to be a bit silly that beds can be used out in the open and just about anywhere in the Overworld except the ocean or beside blocks that would obstruct them.
even from a logical standpoint, beds should be used in secure bases that are well lit or at least are decorated with bottom half slabs or transparent blocks such as glass, otherwise use a mushroom island and away from mob spawners in caves, if you're too close to the shorelines of a mushroom island while using a bed, then you should get a surprise attack from a Drowned Zombie once in a while, and on normal and hard difficulties, they should have an increased odds of wielding tridents while doing this.
This would also increase the challenge even against players wearing enchanted armour, because in other biomes you'd have a chance of being attacked by a Witch, and Witch potions can bypass the invulnerability of armour, the longest duration poison potion is capable of taking players on full health all the way down to half a heart, the next hit is fatal meaning players need to take cover, use honey bottle or drink a milk bucket which is a non stackable item.
Night time needs to be made scary again as it was in older versions of the game.
When beds receive this nerf, among other nerfs that are needed such as not allowing players to sleep in other player beds, only the one's they crafted themselves, and preventing players from abusing exploits that allow them to skip night time on servers by logging out while other people use their beds, forcing said players who left the server at night to wait out a cooldown period before they can log back into the server, then beds would be balanced and function how they should, everyone is encouraged to craft and use beds and people also have to use beds in a secure base, not in the wilderness, if they want to avoid the risk of being woken up at night.
If I recall correctly, this is similar to how it was implemented when beds were first implemented in beta 1.3.
I'm not sure why they removed that -- it was actually a really fun feature to have in the game.
- sunperp
True.
But it also happens inside the house or closed areas.
My videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/robingravel
My cartoons: http://www.dailymotion.com/robin-gravel
Flash Animation (if your computer supports flash):
http://robingravel.byethost15.com/eflash.htm
Few flash movies have easter egg/extras
I agree, I know it would inconvenience players somewhat but this is survival mode, there are already plenty of viable options for spawn proofing player territory so it is not unreasonable to expect players to place beds in a spawn proofed area that eliminates all angles of hostile mob pathfinding.
In most cases the Overworld is too easy now, and the OPness of beds is one of the reasons.
How beds were originally designed was proper and felt fitting for survival mode,
and it gave players more incentive to build houses, safe houses I mean, which rewards base building and interior design.
I might support re-adding the original mechanics but including creepers is going way too far due to how destructive and deadly they are; mobs should also only spawn out in the open (my idea for how it can work is to try to spawn a mob within, say, 16 blocks on a block that is exposed to the sky and dark enough and allows pathfinding to the player; at its simplest they may spawn even if the player is inside a shelter but lighting up the area around them would avoid it; sure, you could still just place down a bed in the open but at least you'd need to light up the area to a light level of at least 8, the original spawnproofing level).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
Not to mention they can destroy the bed the player is using which would then reset the player spawn location to origin.
But again, there are ways around the problem, you can secure a cave with torches and block off dark passage ways with gates and fences which are cheap to make, since you make a habit out of mining which is the point of the game you of all people would know how easy caves are to find. They can be dangerous to explore initially especially without armour, however the danger in exploring caves exists whether you use a bed or not.
Players who haven't yet built a house can simply light up a cave after making charcoal with logs and furnaces after chopping down some trees and gathering a bit of cobblestone. This is basic stuff that can be done on day one in the world. And they only need 2 bits of raw iron to make a pair of shears after smelting them into ingots, which can be used to shear sheep and gather wool. Considering how easy beds are to access early game I'd think they need some kind of balance or downside to them. They have some downsides already, such as players cannot sleep if there are monsters nearby, but I don't feel this is enough which brings us to the point OP made in this thread.
Players need more incentives to secure their beds, which are at risk of being destroyed by Creepers even without the hostile mob ability to wake players up at night if used out in the open in any land based biome that isn't mushroom fields. However beds can be used at sunset which is just before hostile mobs usually spawn, meaning players can skip the danger of night completely, to balance this, the original mechanics need to be reimplemented to discourage using beds out in the wilderness, meaning traveling far away from home comes with some calculated risk on the player's part once again.
Now THIS is a good idea. This also sets an example of how good suggestions should be written: full of detail and covers every base as just about every angle was thought of. Complete support.
Not sure about Creepers being right up in your face, though.
There was once a feature in old Minecraft, if you slept in a dark environment a skelly or zombie would wake you up.
NamePerson was_taken
I'm aware, but this is intended to be a far more detailed and logical "remake" of that feature.
It would not explode immediately, when I said "about to detonate" I meant the very beginning of it's hissing, not the end, so you would have time to back away or attack it unless you aren't prepared, or don't expect it.
The delay can't be too long otherwise it would mean the Creepers would almost never succeed in either killing the player or destroying their bed if they survive the close range blast as a result of an enchantment. I do agree it needs to be fair but it has to be something that punishes the player for not paying attention or taking the unnecessary risk for placing beds out in the open at night.
I propose setting the detonation timer just 1 second after the player is awoken out of their bed, this would mean the player gets a total of 2.5 seconds before the explosion, giving them a bit of time to see what is going on, but not too long that they can just stand around like a noob
and let themself be attacked.
Okay, sure. I just don't want to outright EXCLUDE them from the mechanic because it wouldn't make sense, considering they're common monsters. But I'm fine with your proposition.
I'm all for recovering the need for preparedness in exploration and this is a great step in that direction. However, I feel like mobs shouldn't be able to spawn in the very vicinity of the player (say, up to 8 blocks in each direction), just as they cannot do so when you're awake. They should just be able to pathfind towards the player. I'm not saying this so players can't woken up with mobs right next to them, just that the mob-"spawnability"-check should ignore players' vicinity. As silly as being able to sleep out in the open with monsters out to get you, it would also be silly to expect monsters to "materialize" in a very small enclosure around you during the night. Moreover, for roleplaying reasons, players should be able to sleep in houses with the lights off.
Finally, current sleeping mechanics should remain the same in Easy difficulty and half-sleep should be sufficient to ward off phantoms in both Easy and Normal difficulties.
...did you not read the whole thread? I thoroughly explained how the mechanic would work, and the way it would work would not allow mobs to "materialize" right next to you with no way they could get there, it only happens if the game decides that a monster could successfully pathfind to you over the course of the night.
As for your second statement, I'm fine with this mechanic being excluded from Easy mode.
I read, but apparently misinterpreted it, no need for contemptuous rhetorical questions. By "within a few blocks from the player", I thought you meant just a couple, whereas I consider the vicinity of a player to be about the size of a chunk. I made that remark because I believe villager houses should be safe places to sleep regardless of light levels.
Phantoms can be challenging enough for most players as they are. It can be overwhelming to fend off a "surprise skeleton" + phantom combo for what should be considered normal difficulty. It feels unreasonable to be attacked by phantoms in the middle of an attempt to ward them off.
Phantoms are exempt from this, as they attack you for not sleeping, so they obviously aren't going to attack you if you're now sleeping.
Here are links to the original source (the first is source for a mod for Beta 1.7.3 and is where I found the "peformSleepSpawning" method (the actual class is not present), and the second is the actual spawning code, which is in CSharp, but the code is almost identical to Java):
https://github.com/betaexpansion/betaexpansion/blob/master/betaexpansion/World.java#L2042
https://stackanswer.com/examples/detail/csharp-ex-CraftyServer.Core-World-isBlockOpaqueCube-method.html
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
Which I suspect would be most nights, if out in a forest at night with nothing to prevent the pathfinding such as fences or 1 and a half block high walls, and even then spiders still manage to climb over them, but they stop their assault upon entering light level 8 if not aggroed, if I'm not mistaken. Even burying yourself in a 2x1 dirt hole doesn't guarantee no attack, as Endermen can remove any dirt block that is above you.
I have never experienced an instance where monsters wouldn't pathfind to us unless they were in a hole or blocked by a wall/fence or burying myself in a tiny hole like I mentioned, hostile mob AI is usually pretty good at this from what friends and I had witnessed, even in bedrock edition where supposedly is supposed to be "easier", from what I've witnessed mob AI is at least very similar if not completely the same. They do find players very well and appear to work as intended.
I don't dislike pathfinding, pathfinding is a logical mechanic but I wished passive mobs were as smart, because having to prevent Villagers or animals from falling into holes, even naturally generated ones, can be annoying sometimes. I know it is the responsibility of players to protect Villagers from attack against Zombies at night which is fine, but Villagers do not seem to do a good enough job at evading hazards and sometimes they even roam around outside their houses at night making it even more difficult to protect them from being Zombified or worse, turned into a Witch if struck by lightning.
What does this have to do with being awoken by monsters by using unguarded beds outside? not much, but it is possible for Zombified Villagers to then turn around and cause havoc for a player.
If we are attacked from taking unnecessary risks by using insecure beds, then it is our fault, but when Villagers are attacked and then turned into hostile mobs as a result of dodgy mechanics and Villagers making little effort in the way of self preservation, then we've got a problem. Although at least Zombies don't destroy beds. It can still be dangerous to take on a large number of them even with enchanted armour sometimes, especially if we are talking about Husks which initiate hunger status if they touch you, losing hunger points can then halt natural regeneration, but Zombies don't really destroy any object except wooden doors last time I checked, indirectly they can destroy crops if they fall on them if this counts.
I wished Zombies could break doors in Normal difficulty though, you can't even starve to death on this difficulty which makes no sense, and this also makes food less useful. If hostile mobs could awaken players for using insecure beds at night, then it would still be possible for Zombified Villagers to cause a problem, but wooden doors still slow them down which means there is still time for a Zombie to burn to death after dawn, eliminating the threat.
Hard difficulty has mechanics Normal should have now,
while Hard difficulty should have more challenges added on top and perhaps more restrictions on the use of beds,
such as not letting players use their beds just as the sun is setting, only after dusk/twilight, giving hostile mobs a chance to spawn.
One reason why I've never played on Hard is because zombies can break doors (although it is very easy to cheese - place the doorway 1 block above the ground or place the door so it is "open" when it appears to be closed, since zombies only attack "closed" doors), along with the disproportionate increase in creeper damage which requires insanely OP armor (this is much worse since 1.9 because of the "armor penetration" mechanic, which IMO should have remained exclusive to specific sources of damage, e.g,. potions of Harming, or in my implementation axes). I even nerfed player armor as well as creeper damage (from 80% to 66% and 49 to 36 respectively; the damage taken after armor is respectively 9.8 and 12, so you actuality take more damage, plus creepers don't stop moving during their countdown (a vanilla feature prior to 1.2); on Hard this is up to 18 damage (1.5x) and being left at one heart is quite dangerous (you say that "players can't starve to death on Normal so food is pointless" - but half a heart is a big deal as anything can easily kill you, so yes, food is still very important).
Of course, as you probably know I buffed mob armor (up to 10% on Easy, 20% on Normal, and 30% on Hard, the latter of which is double the vanilla chance; notably, in 1.8 they removed armored mobs entirely on Easy), including higher chances of better armor (I've seen 74 mobs in diamond or better (modded) armor at the rate of one every few days) and weapons (e.g. zombies have a 3.3-6.7-10% chance of weapons, compared to 1-1-5% in vanilla - why doesn't it increase at all from Easy to Normal?), removed "inhabited time" so the difficulty factor is only dependent on total playtime, rising to a fixed maximum after 100 hours (75 on Hard), which is essentially how the game was before 1.6 (Mojang made it sound like "regional difficulty" made the game harder when it actually made it easier, especially for players who constantly explore as I do, e.g. an inhabited time map of my current world, which I've spent over 1,000 hours on; green is around 25% of the maximum of 50 hours, which has only been reached around my main base/spawn), and allowed most "Hard only" features (e.g. zombies spawning reinforcements and spiders with potion effects) on all difficulties.
I also increased the density of mobs by reducing their (de)spawn range and split the mob cap into "cave" and "surface" caps (there are now more mobs on the surface at night and they start spawning as soon as it gets dark enough since mobs in caves don't need to despawn first; conversely, the number of mobs in caves remains constant throughout the day. At the same time, mobs only spawn 1/4 as often per chunk, nerfing farms, which rely on spawn rates more than the mob cap, while not impacting normal gameplay since the cap is still met in most situations and is probably necessary to be able to conquer large caves by allowing you to kill them fast enough (I killed over 4,000 mobs, averaging 669 per day, in one of the largest caves I explored, which is more than double the average in vanilla, about 275 in my first world prior to making my own "World1" mod, which implements some of the aforementioned changes, but to a lesser extent, recently averaging 337 per day).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
Do you realize how unlikely an Enderman removing a block would be? Plus, they can only pick up some blocks. Trapping yourself in a small room or hole would guarantee no attack as nothing can reach you.