I've got to say, that charcoal is becoming far more useless as the updates roll by. It needs an update!
So, I propose the idea that charcoal gets a new texture. It looks brown and black. It needs a reason for use, perhaps it burns the item fast but lasts a shorter time. And, it could be implemented in the overworld. Everytime a lightning bolt hits s tree, it singes down to the stump and that stump, and it makes a coal block. Everytime you set a tree on fire it does the same thing.
An entire update for a single item whos primary use is to make torches, smelt ore and cook food, sure why not. However have you consider that charcoal is already op as it is considering its renewable resource and all you pretty much need is a furnace and a stack of wood along with two sticks to start your never ending production supply of Charcoal, and now you want to remove the middle man ie the furnace from the equation of this well thought out process of resources gathering during the early game, so for that reason I'm out.
I don't know what the solution is, it is a fair point for people to say once they have a maximum fortune enchanted pickaxe then coal is no longer an issue for them to get in vast amounts, so they wouldn't have much use for charcoal by that point.
Coal is only renewable if you get it off Wither skeletons however, but they have such a pathetic spawn rate in Nether fortresses that it's hardly worth it, and increasing their spawn rate would ramp up the difficulty to absurd levels as the player would be getting killed by them often, because of the amount of damage they do.
Charcoal is a great early game item though because it means players don't need to be in a hurry to get enchantments for their pickaxe.
It being so easy to get and being renewable is justifiable enough to keep it in the game. Charcoal is a basic resource that any player should have access too once they have crafted a furnace, I don't believe charcoal should drop by trees getting struck by lightning though, there is too much AFK resource stuff going on in the game already.
After some thought I've come to the conclusion that the only automated farms that should exist in the game, if they are to exist at all,
is stuff to do with plant based food items, it would give redstone an important use for sure. But charcoal? no, I wholeheartedly disagree with this one.
After some thought I've come to the conclusion that the only automated farms that should exist in the game, if they are to exist at all,
is stuff to do with plant based food items, it would give redstone an important use for sure. But charcoal? no, I wholeheartedly disagree with this one.
Automated farms let late game players concentrate on their own goals instead of grinding for every new idea for a building or a challenge that comes into their head.
Automated farms let late game players concentrate on their own goals instead of grinding for every new idea for a building or a challenge that comes into their head.
I'm not suggesting reduce the drop rate of said goodies, however don't you think it is too OP to be able to get certain items for free? for just standing around all day doing nothing or existing within a vicinity of an auto grinder machine? if it required player input, say you fishing for your enchantments, it would improve the game drastically, same thing with copper drops from Drowned Zombies, you want them? fight them.
Similarly, I and another person who posted in this thread believe it would be too overpowered to let charcoal just automatically drop from a tree that got struck by lightning, simply because of a weather event.
I don't like games becoming too grindy, though, so there should be limits to said nerfs.
Otherwise it's forcing players to go through more unrewarding tasks, therefore ruining the game.
I smelt everything using charcoal, it's cheap, comfortable and fairly efficient fuel type. Additionally it's extremely reliable torch source. It's also how I craft my campfires to cook food without having to spend any fuel in process.
I don't burn black coal, because it's a trading good, and I can sell it to kickstart heavy industry in villages (only fletchers buy wood)
I only occasionally smelt with lava, as I either have to lose exp due to hoppers or micromanage the furnace because lava buckets smelt more items than the furnace can hold.
Sometimes I smelt single items with saplings, sticks or burn large quantities of wooden stairs left after deconstructing flammable village to move the noses into rock and stone, but this is a temporary fuel surge.
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
I'm not suggesting reduce the drop rate of said goodies, however don't you think it is too OP to be able to get certain items for free? for just standing around all day doing nothing or existing within a vicinity of an auto grinder machine? if it required player input, say you fishing for your enchantments, it would improve the game drastically, same thing with copper drops from Drowned Zombies, you want them? fight them.
Similarly, I and another person who posted in this thread believe it would be too overpowered to let charcoal just automatically drop from a tree that got struck by lightning, simply because of a weather event.
I don't like games becoming too grindy, though, so there should be limits to said nerfs.
Otherwise it's forcing players to go through more unrewarding tasks, therefore ruining the game.
I think full automation is the real end goal of the game - when you can spend all your time travelling, exploring, constructing and fighting with minimal work required to get supplies for those activities.
Also, getting tree blown to items, collected and smelted to charcoal is already possible, just sapling planting can't be automated.
I'd not like to see so easy way to get so much coal as in OP's proposal though, besides, how could the game verify that the "tree" weren't 2 blocks of log set on fire by the player giving him equivalent of 9 logs smelted for charcoal with additional fuel spending?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
I think full automation is the real end goal of the game - when you can spend all your time travelling, exploring, constructing and fighting with minimal work required to get supplies for those activities.
Also, getting tree blown to items, collected and smelted to charcoal is already possible, just sapling planting can't be automated.
I'd not like to see so easy way to get so much coal as in OP's proposal though, besides, how could the game verify that the "tree" weren't 2 blocks of log set on fire by the player giving him equivalent of 9 logs smelted for charcoal with additional fuel spending?
There are some item drops I wouldn't mind being automated for the purposes of making redstone more useful in later game, but stuff like fuel and mineable resources are not it. I used to be for AFK iron farms through Iron golems, but after watching SimplySarc's video about the issue, my opinion on it has changed since there is a better way to solve the abundance of iron problem, that's asking Mojang to make certain biomes have an abundance of Iron ore, similar to how Mesa makes Gold Ore abundant, also over time Iron Ingot drops from Zombies and Mending enchantment can make up for whatever tools you broke so long as you used them wisely.
The reality is often times AFK farms are a crutch for a flawed and broken mining system, which ironically some people keep asking even the ore distribution to be nerfed despite some people building gold and iron farms because mining apparently doesn't satisfy their resource needs.
I don't believe the solution to resource scarcity is necessarily solved through automation,
in some cases it's alright I suppose, such as with crop based items, but with charcoal this does have a significant impact on gameplay,
because of its ability to spawn proof areas with torches which are so cheaply made as it is, on top of this they have an infinite lifespan.
There are some item drops I wouldn't mind being automated for the purposes of making redstone more useful in later game, but stuff like fuel and mineable resources are not it. I used to be for AFK iron farms through Iron golems, but after watching SimplySarc's video about the issue, my opinion on it has changed since there is a better way to solve the abundance of iron problem, that's asking Mojang to make certain biomes have an abundance of Iron ore, similar to how Mesa makes Gold Ore abundant, also over time Iron Ingot drops from Zombies and Mending enchantment can make up for whatever tools you broke so long as you used them wisely.
The reality is often times AFK farms are a crutch for a flawed and broken mining system, which ironically some people keep asking even the ore distribution to be nerfed despite some people building gold and iron farms because mining apparently doesn't satisfy their resource needs.
I don't believe the solution to resource scarcity is necessarily solved through automation,
in some cases it's alright I suppose, such as with crop based items, but with charcoal this does have a significant impact on gameplay,
because of its ability to spawn proof areas with torches which are so cheaply made as it is, on top of this they have an infinite lifespan.
SimplySarc has a striking point: how come mojang didn't remove iron golems?
They have been "fixed" so many times but eventually they stayed bc they provide iron.
Imo the iron drop should be removed.
It's just that the iron golem completly lost it's purpose & became an abstract ressource.
There needs to be another method to gain iron. It's not difficult to block villagers in safe spots and secure the villages later.
I never relied on golems to protect my villagers. When it comes to securing villages, it's quite hard to pinpoint every dark spot in a village.
While i use lightlevel-overlay mods, vanilla minecraft only shows the light level of 1 block in the debug screen.
(Sadly the Glare was their last idea to adress a lightlevels related feature )
I'd say it's next to impossible for a new player to secure a village unless he studies spawnproof mechanics.
Untill then he died multiple times to the golem becouse villagers like to run in your tools...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
SimplySarc has a striking point: how come mojang didn't remove iron golems?
They have been "fixed" so many times but eventually they stayed bc they provide iron.
Imo the iron drop should be removed.
It's just that the iron golem completly lost it's purpose & became an abstract ressource.
There needs to be another method to gain iron. It's not difficult to block villagers in safe spots and secure the villages later.
I never relied on golems to protect my villagers. When it comes to securing villages, it's quite hard to pinpoint every dark spot in a village.
While i use lightlevel-overlay mods, vanilla minecraft only shows the light level of 1 block in the debug screen.
(Sadly the Glare was their last idea to adress a lightlevels related feature )
I'd say it's next to impossible for a new player to secure a village unless he studies spawnproof mechanics.
Untill then he died multiple times to the golem becouse villagers like to run in your tools...
I thought of some sort of iron extractors, akin to Coal Extractors and Titanium Extractors from Mindustry - they chug up massive amounts of stone or iron, respectively, and with use of water convert them to small amount of coal or titanium in areas where these resources are scarce.
The painfully relatable to real life problem is that whatever the extraction material is, it will be strip mined to extreme. Gravel and Tuff seem to be the least problematic candidates for being possible to extract iron nuggets from them.
An alternative is to make zombies drop iron ingots unconditionally, or add some trading option of iron nuggets sold for emeralds given by villagers.
As a last resort there is piglin trading and manual zombie farms, but those are rather labor intensive options with little in the way of consistency.
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
I thought of some sort of iron extractors, akin to Coal Extractors and Titanium Extractors from Mindustry - they chug up massive amounts of stone or iron, respectively, and with use of water convert them to small amount of coal or titanium in areas where these resources are scarce.
The painfully relatable to real life problem is that whatever the extraction material is, it will be strip mined to extreme. Gravel and Tuff seem to be the least problematic candidates for being possible to extract iron nuggets from them.
An alternative is to make zombies drop iron ingots unconditionally, or add some trading option of iron nuggets sold for emeralds given by villagers.
As a last resort there is piglin trading and manual zombie farms, but those are rather labor intensive options with little in the way of consistency.
I'd say let's add trades for ingots instead!
Even tough that wouldn't be an automatic ressource, players could trade a LOT per day.
Another advantage is that you don't need to learn how golems spawn, instead you just secure villagers on a large scale.
That way players who struggle transporting villagers into abstract contraptions can have jucy iron-skyscrapers too.
I like that!
SUPPORT!!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
Even tough that wouldn't be an automatic ressource, players could trade a LOT per day.
Another advantage is that you don't need to learn how golems spawn, instead you just secure villagers on a large scale.
That way players who struggle transporting villagers into abstract contraptions can have jucy iron-skyscrapers too.
I like that!
SUPPORT!!
Trading for Iron ingots is a good way to fix this, this would ensure players are taking action in the game instead of relying on an auto grinder to get them free resources. The same could apply to charcoal, you could have farmers offer 3x charcoal in exchange for 1x sapling, and there you have it, a massively improved trading system that doesn't rely on automation to get players resources.
But I still think it would be a good idea to have biomes affect the distribution of Iron Ore. Jungle biomes could be made to have the largest distribution of Iron Ore underground, and there is an incentive to actually mine the substance instead of relying on Iron Golems which in this case would be nerfed.
Also it would help if steel were to be added, with 750 durability points per tool, when iron is processed with coal or charcoal.
One iron ingot and one coal or charcoal making a steel ingot would get players a far more reliable tool item that is cheaper than diamond
and offers half the durability of diamond tools, making these a decent alternative to use late game.
In this instance, the crafting recipe of flint and steel gets updated,
and now requires a steel ingot and a flint to make.
I don't know what the solution is, it is a fair point for people to say once they have a maximum fortune enchanted pickaxe then coal is no longer an issue for them to get in vast amounts, so they wouldn't have much use for charcoal by that point.
Nobody should ever have an issue with getting enough coal, even without Fortune:
TMCW World1
Coal 2225 2069
Iron 787 778
Redstone 109 112
Gold 84 94
Lapis 31 34
Diamond 14 16
Emerald 5 4
Total Ore 3256 3107
Rails 86 277
Cobwebs 36 114
Moss Stone 97 129
Grand Total 3476 3628
That's what I mine every time I play - more than 2,000 coal, which is enough to smelt 16,000 items or craft 8,000 torches, both far in excess of what I need:
That's also only ores exposed in caves within an area of about 100 chunks; a single chunk has an average of 207 coal ore, or 20,700 coal in 100 chunks, and most of that is in the lower 64 layers (1.6.4 has about 3/4 as much due to a change that made veins larger in 1.8):
Coal ore attempts to generate 20 times per chunk in blobs of size 0-37, from levels 0 to 127, in all biomes. An average of 207 coal ore generates per chunk.
As far as charcoal goes, I'd only add a charcoal block, which is less effective than coal blocks (no bonus, where a coal block can smelt the equivalent to 10 items instead of 9), along with nerfing charcoal itself (I actually added both of these to TMCW, where charcoal can smelt 6 items instead of 8, making it as effective as a log crafted into planks (minus the fuel needed to smelt the charcoal, which if charcoal you'd need one for every 6 new charcoal, making it 5/6 as effective), but being able to smelt 4 times as many items per stack (384 vs 96 items); a charcoal block can smelt 54 items as opposed to 80 for coal blocks. The torch recipe was not changed; you still get 4 per piece).
Since you have to harvest wood yourself, along with the abundance of coal, this makes it less OP in my opinion than automated kelp farms, or whatever other fuels there are in newer versions (I haven't added kelp blocks); on the other hand, even with the nerfs I'd find charcoal blocks to be more useful than coal blocks as fuel since they smelt less than a stack of items (you need to either tend to the furnace or use hoppers if you use a coal block as otherwise it will stop after 64 items and waste the rest; either way, I'd just use individual coal as fuel, 8 pieces per stack of items, and maybe charcoal early on, but as mentioned above wood planks are just as effective unless you need to smelt a very large amount of items, and I find plenty of coal while branch-mining for other resources).
Nobody should ever have an issue with getting enough coal, even without Fortune:
TMCW World1
Coal 2225 2069
Iron 787 778
Redstone 109 112
Gold 84 94
Lapis 31 34
Diamond 14 16
Emerald 5 4
Total Ore 3256 3107
Rails 86 277
Cobwebs 36 114
Moss Stone 97 129
Grand Total 3476 3628
That's what I mine every time I play - more than 2,000 coal, which is enough to smelt 16,000 items or craft 8,000 torches, both far in excess of what I need:
That's also only ores exposed in caves within an area of about 100 chunks; a single chunk has an average of 207 coal ore, or 20,700 coal in 100 chunks, and most of that is in the lower 64 layers (1.6.4 has about 3/4 as much due to a change that made veins larger in 1.8):
As far as charcoal goes, I'd only add a charcoal block, which is less effective than coal blocks (no bonus, where a coal block can smelt the equivalent to 10 items instead of 9), along with nerfing charcoal itself (I actually added both of these to TMCW, where charcoal can smelt 6 items instead of 8, making it as effective as a log crafted into planks (minus the fuel needed to smelt the charcoal, which if charcoal you'd need one for every 6 new charcoal, making it 5/6 as effective), but being able to smelt 4 times as many items per stack (384 vs 96 items); a charcoal block can smelt 54 items as opposed to 80 for coal blocks. The torch recipe was not changed; you still get 4 per piece).
Since you have to harvest wood yourself, along with the abundance of coal, this makes it less OP in my opinion than automated kelp farms, or whatever other fuels there are in newer versions (I haven't added kelp blocks); on the other hand, even with the nerfs I'd find charcoal blocks to be more useful than coal blocks as fuel since they smelt less than a stack of items (you need to either tend to the furnace or use hoppers if you use a coal block as otherwise it will stop after 64 items and waste the rest; either way, I'd just use individual coal as fuel, 8 pieces per stack of items, and maybe charcoal early on, but as mentioned above wood planks are just as effective unless you need to smelt a very large amount of items, and I find plenty of coal while branch-mining for other resources).
Agreed, making charcoal smelt only 6 items per charcoal unit makes sense because then it puts coal at ahead and is sensible because it would encourage using coal later on for smelting or cooking items. Charcoal is still useful and is easily renewable, but with this nerf this encourages coal to be used far more often.
There has also been suggestions to nerf torches so that only the coal variant has the infinite lifespan, where as charcoal ones would burn out after some time and would need relighting with a flint and steel, I don't know where from or who made this suggestion, but after some thought I do agree with the idea because then it means coal also needs to be used for torches if people want to have their torches continue to burn.
Agreed, making charcoal smelt only 6 items per charcoal unit makes sense because then it puts coal at ahead and is sensible because it would encourage using coal later on for smelting or cooking items. Charcoal is still useful and is easily renewable, but with this nerf this encourages coal to be used far more often.
There has also been suggestions to nerf torches so that only the coal variant has the infinite lifespan, where as charcoal ones would burn out after some time and would need relighting with a flint and steel, I don't know where from or who made this suggestion, but after some thought I do agree with the idea because then it means coal also needs to be used for torches if people want to have their torches continue to burn.
I wouldn't object if chorcoal would be nerfed to a fueltime of 6 items.
Speaking as a nomad i barely mine any coal, nor do i chop down entire forests.
I just calculate what to use as fuel depending on the situation. Most times i use sticks.
But i object realistic torches. Looking back at rlcraft, that feature was just annoying.
(Even tough the torches required glowstone instead if coal/chorcoal)
That was what made me abandone my stripmines and just move on. It's not fun to re-lit torches nor to replace them with prelit ones.
However, it does fit into the modpack when you think about the lycanites horror mobs.
Vanilla mobs on the other hand won't force you to light up stripmines.
But I still think it would be a good idea to have biomes affect the distribution of Iron Ore. Jungle biomes could be made to have the largest distribution of Iron Ore underground, and there is an incentive to actually mine the substance instead of relying on Iron Golems which in this case would be nerfed.
Yes, we defenetly need a counterpart of mesa biomes for iron ore. Another thing i miss is rocks made of stone types, leaf blocks, coal & iron ores.
They should generate here and there alone for ambience purpose.
It's also woth considering to include redstone as a rare ore in those rocks, to encourage using vanilla maps.
It doesn't make much sence to have this ore only generate deep down when it isn't a rare ressource.
While villagers can trade redstone and map related materials, it's generally faster to just dig down or plunder shipwracks.
Imo maps need to become more accessable in the earlygame.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
I wouldn't object if chorcoal would be nerfed to a fueltime of 6 items.
Speaking as a nomad i barely mine any coal, nor do i chop down entire forests.
I just calculate what to use as fuel depending on the situation. Most times i use sticks.
But i object realistic torches. Looking back at rlcraft, that feature was just annoying.
(Even tough the torches required glowstone instead if coal/chorcoal)
That was what made me abandone my stripmines and just move on. It's not fun to re-lit torches nor to replace them with prelit ones.
However, it does fit into the modpack when you think about the lycanites horror mobs.
Vanilla mobs on the other hand won't force you to light up stripmines.
Yes, we defenetly need a counterpart of mesa biomes for iron ore. Another thing i miss is rocks made of stone types, leaf blocks, coal & iron ores.
They should generate here and there alone for ambience purpose.
It's also woth considering to include redstone as a rare ore in those rocks, to encourage using vanilla maps.
It doesn't make much sence to have this ore only generate deep down when it isn't a rare ressource.
While villagers can trade redstone and map related materials, it's generally faster to just dig down or plunder shipwracks.
Imo maps need to become more accessable in the earlygame.
The annoyance of the torch update could be fixed by keeping all the current torches people placed as the perma variant, and then making charcoal based torches have a finite lifespan going forward, meaning future torches players would place after the update, would need to be coal variant if they wanted to avoid having relit their torches, or they could just use lanterns, their decision, but I feel this rebalancing decision can work with the proper care, meaning if players were told this would happen beforehand in an upcoming update for torches.
About the Iron Ore thing, I'm glad you agree with me on that one, jungle biomes could serve as the Mesa counterpart for Iron Ore and make Iron Ore distribution much more common compared to in other biomes, in other biomes their distribution ought to be the same as it is now, but in Jungle I believe it would be great to have Iron be up to 4 times as common, meaning the Ore veins would be larger or quadruple the size.
I think you're forgetting an important detail here, with the Iron ore being more common it would be much easier to craft and place lanterns, since you'd have such an enormous supply of Iron that it wouldn't make sense to not use any on lanterns in my honest opinion, seeing as lanterns are a permanent item and will not burn out, lanterns can be destroyed, but only if you're careless and they get blown up by a Creeper or something like that.
I think you're forgetting an important detail here, with the Iron ore being more common it would be much easier to craft and place lanterns, since you'd have such an enormous supply of Iron that it wouldn't make sense to not use any on lanterns in my honest opinion, seeing as lanterns are a permanent item and will not burn out, lanterns can be destroyed, but only if you're careless and they get blown up by a Creeper or something like that.
In that case lanters (and jack 'o lanterns) should require permanent lit torches.
The annoyance of the torch update could be fixed by keeping all the current torches people placed as the perma variant, and then making charcoal based torches have a finite lifespan going forward, meaning future torches players would place after the update, would need to be coal variant if they wanted to avoid having relit their torches, or they could just use lanterns, their decision, but I feel this rebalancing decision can work with the proper care, meaning if players were told this would happen beforehand in an upcoming update for torches.
That would be a wise decision. No one would welcome a griefing update.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
I've got to say, that charcoal is becoming far more useless as the updates roll by. It needs an update!
So, I propose the idea that charcoal gets a new texture. It looks brown and black. It needs a reason for use, perhaps it burns the item fast but lasts a shorter time. And, it could be implemented in the overworld. Everytime a lightning bolt hits s tree, it singes down to the stump and that stump, and it makes a coal block. Everytime you set a tree on fire it does the same thing.
What do you think?
I think we could use a chorcoal block. But i wouldn't implement it the same way coal blocks work.
Just crafting coal/chorcoal to blocks and back to the exact amount is practical but also weird imo.
If a chorcoal block would be implemented, i'd change the coalblock as well:
When you mine them, they drop coal/chorcoal. Less then you need to craft them. (Even with fortune)
That way people would start to think about the value (fueltime?) and not waste like 1 coal for 1 iron ore.
When i watch ppl do that, while they have sticks or sapplings it pains me somehow.
But it's not like there isn't enough fuel.
If Chorcoal blocks would be implemented as a ressource of burned wood (like near lava pools) it would be op imo.
A cool idea but slightly op. Even if you would need silktouch to mine them.
Howerver-
Chorcoal doesn't realy need an update. It's a strategic niche item you use, when you have something to smelt but no coal.
For me it's an early game alternative, which allows me to not waste too much wood as fuel.
If you want renewable industrialized fuel, i would suggest something else instead:
Kelpblocks, blazerods, bamboo and idk. There is enough stuff to fuel up a furnace.
Treefarms are more complicated imo but you do you.
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
An entire update for a single item whos primary use is to make torches, smelt ore and cook food, sure why not. However have you consider that charcoal is already op as it is considering its renewable resource and all you pretty much need is a furnace and a stack of wood along with two sticks to start your never ending production supply of Charcoal, and now you want to remove the middle man ie the furnace from the equation of this well thought out process of resources gathering during the early game, so for that reason I'm out.
I don't know what the solution is, it is a fair point for people to say once they have a maximum fortune enchanted pickaxe then coal is no longer an issue for them to get in vast amounts, so they wouldn't have much use for charcoal by that point.
Coal is only renewable if you get it off Wither skeletons however, but they have such a pathetic spawn rate in Nether fortresses that it's hardly worth it, and increasing their spawn rate would ramp up the difficulty to absurd levels as the player would be getting killed by them often, because of the amount of damage they do.
Charcoal is a great early game item though because it means players don't need to be in a hurry to get enchantments for their pickaxe.
It being so easy to get and being renewable is justifiable enough to keep it in the game. Charcoal is a basic resource that any player should have access too once they have crafted a furnace, I don't believe charcoal should drop by trees getting struck by lightning though, there is too much AFK resource stuff going on in the game already.
After some thought I've come to the conclusion that the only automated farms that should exist in the game, if they are to exist at all,
is stuff to do with plant based food items, it would give redstone an important use for sure. But charcoal? no, I wholeheartedly disagree with this one.
Automated farms let late game players concentrate on their own goals instead of grinding for every new idea for a building or a challenge that comes into their head.
I'm not suggesting reduce the drop rate of said goodies, however don't you think it is too OP to be able to get certain items for free? for just standing around all day doing nothing or existing within a vicinity of an auto grinder machine? if it required player input, say you fishing for your enchantments, it would improve the game drastically, same thing with copper drops from Drowned Zombies, you want them? fight them.
Similarly, I and another person who posted in this thread believe it would be too overpowered to let charcoal just automatically drop from a tree that got struck by lightning, simply because of a weather event.
I don't like games becoming too grindy, though, so there should be limits to said nerfs.
Otherwise it's forcing players to go through more unrewarding tasks, therefore ruining the game.
To my taste - Needless one.
I smelt everything using charcoal, it's cheap, comfortable and fairly efficient fuel type. Additionally it's extremely reliable torch source. It's also how I craft my campfires to cook food without having to spend any fuel in process.
I don't burn black coal, because it's a trading good, and I can sell it to kickstart heavy industry in villages (only fletchers buy wood)
I only occasionally smelt with lava, as I either have to lose exp due to hoppers or micromanage the furnace because lava buckets smelt more items than the furnace can hold.
Sometimes I smelt single items with saplings, sticks or burn large quantities of wooden stairs left after deconstructing flammable village to move the noses into rock and stone, but this is a temporary fuel surge.
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
I think full automation is the real end goal of the game - when you can spend all your time travelling, exploring, constructing and fighting with minimal work required to get supplies for those activities.
Also, getting tree blown to items, collected and smelted to charcoal is already possible, just sapling planting can't be automated.
I'd not like to see so easy way to get so much coal as in OP's proposal though, besides, how could the game verify that the "tree" weren't 2 blocks of log set on fire by the player giving him equivalent of 9 logs smelted for charcoal with additional fuel spending?
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
There are some item drops I wouldn't mind being automated for the purposes of making redstone more useful in later game, but stuff like fuel and mineable resources are not it. I used to be for AFK iron farms through Iron golems, but after watching SimplySarc's video about the issue, my opinion on it has changed since there is a better way to solve the abundance of iron problem, that's asking Mojang to make certain biomes have an abundance of Iron ore, similar to how Mesa makes Gold Ore abundant, also over time Iron Ingot drops from Zombies and Mending enchantment can make up for whatever tools you broke so long as you used them wisely.
The reality is often times AFK farms are a crutch for a flawed and broken mining system, which ironically some people keep asking even the ore distribution to be nerfed despite some people building gold and iron farms because mining apparently doesn't satisfy their resource needs.
I don't believe the solution to resource scarcity is necessarily solved through automation,
in some cases it's alright I suppose, such as with crop based items, but with charcoal this does have a significant impact on gameplay,
because of its ability to spawn proof areas with torches which are so cheaply made as it is, on top of this they have an infinite lifespan.
SimplySarc has a striking point: how come mojang didn't remove iron golems?
They have been "fixed" so many times but eventually they stayed bc they provide iron.
Imo the iron drop should be removed.
It's just that the iron golem completly lost it's purpose & became an abstract ressource.
There needs to be another method to gain iron. It's not difficult to block villagers in safe spots and secure the villages later.
I never relied on golems to protect my villagers. When it comes to securing villages, it's quite hard to pinpoint every dark spot in a village.
While i use lightlevel-overlay mods, vanilla minecraft only shows the light level of 1 block in the debug screen.
(Sadly the Glare was their last idea to adress a lightlevels related feature )
I'd say it's next to impossible for a new player to secure a village unless he studies spawnproof mechanics.
Untill then he died multiple times to the golem becouse villagers like to run in your tools...
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
I thought of some sort of iron extractors, akin to Coal Extractors and Titanium Extractors from Mindustry - they chug up massive amounts of stone or iron, respectively, and with use of water convert them to small amount of coal or titanium in areas where these resources are scarce.
The painfully relatable to real life problem is that whatever the extraction material is, it will be strip mined to extreme. Gravel and Tuff seem to be the least problematic candidates for being possible to extract iron nuggets from them.
An alternative is to make zombies drop iron ingots unconditionally, or add some trading option of iron nuggets sold for emeralds given by villagers.
As a last resort there is piglin trading and manual zombie farms, but those are rather labor intensive options with little in the way of consistency.
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
I'd say let's add trades for ingots instead!
Even tough that wouldn't be an automatic ressource, players could trade a LOT per day.
Another advantage is that you don't need to learn how golems spawn, instead you just secure villagers on a large scale.
That way players who struggle transporting villagers into abstract contraptions can have jucy iron-skyscrapers too.
I like that!
SUPPORT!!
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
Trading for Iron ingots is a good way to fix this, this would ensure players are taking action in the game instead of relying on an auto grinder to get them free resources. The same could apply to charcoal, you could have farmers offer 3x charcoal in exchange for 1x sapling, and there you have it, a massively improved trading system that doesn't rely on automation to get players resources.
But I still think it would be a good idea to have biomes affect the distribution of Iron Ore. Jungle biomes could be made to have the largest distribution of Iron Ore underground, and there is an incentive to actually mine the substance instead of relying on Iron Golems which in this case would be nerfed.
Also it would help if steel were to be added, with 750 durability points per tool, when iron is processed with coal or charcoal.
One iron ingot and one coal or charcoal making a steel ingot would get players a far more reliable tool item that is cheaper than diamond
and offers half the durability of diamond tools, making these a decent alternative to use late game.
In this instance, the crafting recipe of flint and steel gets updated,
and now requires a steel ingot and a flint to make.
Nobody should ever have an issue with getting enough coal, even without Fortune:
That's what I mine every time I play - more than 2,000 coal, which is enough to smelt 16,000 items or craft 8,000 torches, both far in excess of what I need:
That's also only ores exposed in caves within an area of about 100 chunks; a single chunk has an average of 207 coal ore, or 20,700 coal in 100 chunks, and most of that is in the lower 64 layers (1.6.4 has about 3/4 as much due to a change that made veins larger in 1.8):
As far as charcoal goes, I'd only add a charcoal block, which is less effective than coal blocks (no bonus, where a coal block can smelt the equivalent to 10 items instead of 9), along with nerfing charcoal itself (I actually added both of these to TMCW, where charcoal can smelt 6 items instead of 8, making it as effective as a log crafted into planks (minus the fuel needed to smelt the charcoal, which if charcoal you'd need one for every 6 new charcoal, making it 5/6 as effective), but being able to smelt 4 times as many items per stack (384 vs 96 items); a charcoal block can smelt 54 items as opposed to 80 for coal blocks. The torch recipe was not changed; you still get 4 per piece).
Since you have to harvest wood yourself, along with the abundance of coal, this makes it less OP in my opinion than automated kelp farms, or whatever other fuels there are in newer versions (I haven't added kelp blocks); on the other hand, even with the nerfs I'd find charcoal blocks to be more useful than coal blocks as fuel since they smelt less than a stack of items (you need to either tend to the furnace or use hoppers if you use a coal block as otherwise it will stop after 64 items and waste the rest; either way, I'd just use individual coal as fuel, 8 pieces per stack of items, and maybe charcoal early on, but as mentioned above wood planks are just as effective unless you need to smelt a very large amount of items, and I find plenty of coal while branch-mining for other resources).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
Agreed, making charcoal smelt only 6 items per charcoal unit makes sense because then it puts coal at ahead and is sensible because it would encourage using coal later on for smelting or cooking items. Charcoal is still useful and is easily renewable, but with this nerf this encourages coal to be used far more often.
There has also been suggestions to nerf torches so that only the coal variant has the infinite lifespan, where as charcoal ones would burn out after some time and would need relighting with a flint and steel, I don't know where from or who made this suggestion, but after some thought I do agree with the idea because then it means coal also needs to be used for torches if people want to have their torches continue to burn.
I wouldn't object if chorcoal would be nerfed to a fueltime of 6 items.
Speaking as a nomad i barely mine any coal, nor do i chop down entire forests.
I just calculate what to use as fuel depending on the situation. Most times i use sticks.
But i object realistic torches. Looking back at rlcraft, that feature was just annoying.
(Even tough the torches required glowstone instead if coal/chorcoal)
That was what made me abandone my stripmines and just move on. It's not fun to re-lit torches nor to replace them with prelit ones.
However, it does fit into the modpack when you think about the lycanites horror mobs.
Vanilla mobs on the other hand won't force you to light up stripmines.
Yes, we defenetly need a counterpart of mesa biomes for iron ore. Another thing i miss is rocks made of stone types, leaf blocks, coal & iron ores.
They should generate here and there alone for ambience purpose.
It's also woth considering to include redstone as a rare ore in those rocks, to encourage using vanilla maps.
It doesn't make much sence to have this ore only generate deep down when it isn't a rare ressource.
While villagers can trade redstone and map related materials, it's generally faster to just dig down or plunder shipwracks.
Imo maps need to become more accessable in the earlygame.
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
The annoyance of the torch update could be fixed by keeping all the current torches people placed as the perma variant, and then making charcoal based torches have a finite lifespan going forward, meaning future torches players would place after the update, would need to be coal variant if they wanted to avoid having relit their torches, or they could just use lanterns, their decision, but I feel this rebalancing decision can work with the proper care, meaning if players were told this would happen beforehand in an upcoming update for torches.
About the Iron Ore thing, I'm glad you agree with me on that one, jungle biomes could serve as the Mesa counterpart for Iron Ore and make Iron Ore distribution much more common compared to in other biomes, in other biomes their distribution ought to be the same as it is now, but in Jungle I believe it would be great to have Iron be up to 4 times as common, meaning the Ore veins would be larger or quadruple the size.
I think you're forgetting an important detail here, with the Iron ore being more common it would be much easier to craft and place lanterns, since you'd have such an enormous supply of Iron that it wouldn't make sense to not use any on lanterns in my honest opinion, seeing as lanterns are a permanent item and will not burn out, lanterns can be destroyed, but only if you're careless and they get blown up by a Creeper or something like that.
In that case lanters (and jack 'o lanterns) should require permanent lit torches.
That would be a wise decision. No one would welcome a griefing update.
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
Alright, sure we may not need it to spawn more frequently, but I do think it could have a block.
That would be useful.
About chorcoal smelting faster:
Wouldn't you agree, that a bucket of lava would take the first place?
I'm not sure about adding temperature for fuel, could be interesting.
The endresult however would be cauldron farms for renewable lava left and right imo.
(My favourite is the kelp-flyingmachine btw)
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q