Add way more caves underground, and also add new cave mobs, like cave skeletons, which throw bones, and way more types of slimes. Like ocean slimes, nether slimes, jungle slimes, etc. Also, add mobs called jungle creepers, which are basically jungle spiders. NEW TYPES of trees like medium trees, supertall trees, etc
I'd rather have more cave systems to explore and more hostile mobs to encounter within those caves to fight,
instead of simply making the game more grindy, which is an unimaginative and unoriginal way to add challenge to a game in most situations.
I do agree we should have more types of trees in the Overworld too, I've said before I would like cherry blossom and willow to be added to make forests much more vibrant and fun to explore.
In a Wildlife update, after 1.19, I hope Mojang considers this, adding more plant life and animals into the game besides just frogs, fireflies and mangrove trees. There are quite literally hundreds of different mobs and plants they could add to the game that would make the Overworld much less boring.
I wouldn't mind more neutral mobs being added either, such as hippopotamus, swans, penguins, seagulls etc.
As well as hostile mobs like sharks, that rarely but do attack players in the ocean biomes, having the probability of said attack being increased if players are low on health or if they are carrying raw meat or rotten flesh. Stuff like this would improve the game a lot, as opposed to simply reducing the rate of what goodies mobs drop after killing them, which often makes the game tedious and not fun to play.
I like the idea of skeletons throwing bones unless they spawn with a bow.
That would be funny. Reminds me of the Trumpet-Skeleton mod somehow.
I'd also want some Skeletons to carry a shield, I mean really, not every server is going to have PVP enabled, or even if they do they may not be actively griefing each other, in which case shields have very limited and circumstantial use.
This would give axes somewhat a better use in combat since you could use the axe to do more damage than with a sword, which makes sense.
I'd want Skeletons to do a lot more than just throw bones whenever they don't have a bow or sword. If they carried shields then fighting them would be more fun and engaging.
I'd also want some Skeletons to carry a shield, I mean really, not every server is going to have PVP enabled, or even if they do they may not be actively griefing each other, in which case shields have very limited and circumstantial use.
This would give axes somewhat a better use in combat since you could use the axe to do more damage than with a sword, which makes sense.
I'd want Skeletons to do a lot more than just throw bones whenever they don't have a bow or sword. If they carried shields then fighting them would be more fun and engaging.
Skeleton Legionnaires, eh? Support, I find shields being the bread-and-butter of any serious melee combat, and I am somewhat disappointed that they are completely absent when it comes to mobs themselves for some reason.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
Skeleton Legionnaires, eh? Support, I find shields being the bread-and-butter of any serious melee combat, and I am somewhat disappointed that they are completely absent when it comes to mobs themselves for some reason.
Agreed, it would mean players would need to be more careful around them and when aiming arrows at Skeletons, Skeletons could attempt to block the incoming arrows when they see the player pull out a bow or trident. Forcing players to fight them in close combat with a sword or axe. If a Skeleton is in water, players could simply ignore them and walk away, since in water Skeletons are slower, they could block arrows or tridents with their shield, but then they could sink to the bottom of the water in doing so, so players would have a way to kill them in water if they had to.
Skeleton Legionnaires, eh? Support, I find shields being the bread-and-butter of any serious melee combat, and I am somewhat disappointed that they are completely absent when it comes to mobs themselves for some reason.
Agreed, it would mean players would need to be more careful around them and when aiming arrows at Skeletons, Skeletons could attempt to block the incoming arrows when they see the player pull out a bow or trident. Forcing players to fight them in close combat with a sword or axe. If a Skeleton is in water, players could simply ignore them and walk away, since in water Skeletons are slower, they could block arrows or tridents with their shield, but then they could sink to the bottom of the water in doing so, so players would have a way to kill them in water if they had to.
I'd like to point out, that the mobs don't seem to have the AI to "use" shields yet. I don't oppose, as long as the pathfinding works smoothly.
It would be fun!
Imagine equiped mobs spawning from mobspawners. Imo Spawners should be tweaked. In a way,
that they break after a certain number of mobs spawned AND give more valuable drop (exp + maybe loot) when destroyed asap.
From the vanilla spawners only the skeleton spawner has some value as a mobgrinder imo becouse easy arrows.
The other 3 are rather useless, unless you don't fell like building a proper mobfarm.
I know many ppl would disagree with me on that one, but the thing is:
Spawners are all over the place! I was shocked, when i first tried ESP modifiactions to locate some mob spawners for testing.
Ofcorse most of them aren't exposed in caves, instead they are sealed off and close to the surface.
That's a bad design. Whe could use rare middle-hard dungeons, witth lot's of spawners exposed by ruins on the surface.
Maybe something simular to Roguelike Dungeons. (That mod has mobs spawning with shields btw)
Everytime i enter one of those, i know I'm gonna die for crap loot. But it's the challange in those small hallways that calls out to me as an explorer.
I feel kinda confident, to handel everything in front of me. Untill diamond armed babyzombies charge in.
To be honest, these dungeons are way more fun then raiding a mansion
Let's get rid of overseen spammed mob spawners and add rare dungeon structures. No one complains about woodland mansions in the game.
But some people complain about difficulty/reward ratio. Doesn't matter to me, if the structure is a fun challange,
isntead of mobs that attack you trough walls.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
I'd like to point out, that the mobs don't seem to have the AI to "use" shields yet. I don't oppose, as long as the pathfinding works smoothly.
It would be fun!
Imagine equiped mobs spawning from mobspawners. Imo Spawners should be tweaked. In a way,
that they break after a certain number of mobs spawned AND give more valuable drop (exp + maybe loot) when destroyed asap.
From the vanilla spawners only the skeleton spawner has some value as a mobgrinder imo becouse easy arrows.
The other 3 are rather useless, unless you don't fell like building a proper mobfarm.
I know many ppl would disagree with me on that one, but the thing is:
Spawners are all over the place! I was shocked, when i first tried ESP modifiactions to locate some mob spawners for testing.
Ofcorse most of them aren't exposed in caves, instead they are sealed off and close to the surface.
That's a bad design. Whe could use rare middle-hard dungeons, witth lot's of spawners exposed by ruins on the surface.
Maybe something simular to Roguelike Dungeons. (That mod has mobs spawning with shields btw)
Everytime i enter one of those, i know I'm gonna die for crap loot. But it's the challange in those small hallways that calls out to me as an explorer.
I feel kinda confident, to handel everything in front of me. Untill diamond armed babyzombies charge in.
To be honest, these dungeons are way more fun then raiding a mansion
Let's get rid of overseen spammed mob spawners and add rare dungeon structures. No one complains about woodland mansions in the game.
But some people complain about difficulty/reward ratio. Doesn't matter to me, if the structure is a fun challange,
isntead of mobs that attack you trough walls.
Or, instead of making a feature useless or completely defeating the point of their implementation to begin with
how about redesigning mob spawners so they are more challenging to farm? by increasing the spawn rates of hostile mobs and making it so they cannot be cheesed as easily. For example make it so players can no longer hit mobs through a half block hole, design the mob spawners so they can't work in water or over a drop where the hostile mobs would take fall damage, and adding a cool down on mob spawner drops according to TheMasterCaver's idea. This way you can only get about 50 drops per in game day or something like that.
Or, instead of making a feature useless or completely defeating the point of their implementation to begin with
how about redesigning mob spawners so they are more challenging to farm? by increasing the spawn rates of hostile mobs and making it so they cannot be cheesed as easily. For example make it so players can no longer hit mobs through a half block hole, design the mob spawners so they can't work in water or over a drop where the hostile mobs would take fall damage, and adding a cool down on mob spawner drops according to TheMasterCaver's idea. This way you can only get about 50 drops per in game day or something like that.
1. Increasing mob spawn rates will promote grinding more and fighting less, since fights will be riskier and mobility less valuable than positioning in item gathering.
2. Denying players ability to kill mobs through half block hole would have to change the entire mechanics of slabs and hitboxes. And I could be certain that players would find one way or another to circumvent it, like 2-3 block tall pillars as killzones.
3. Fall damage and water everywhere won't do, many of current grinders work on behalf of mobs themselves walking into water streams that cut through normal spawning zones. Trapdoors can also be used to make mobs fall through the floor. Even if you change mob AI not to walk over open trapdoors, there is still an option to connect trapdoors to a redstone clock so that they from time to time open and close back again. The only solution is to make mobs always stand still and avoid flowing water, and never go on trapdoors, open or closed, and that will severely impact their fighting abilities in various ways - and give players another method of circumventing slab killhole exploit removal.
4. Adding extra cooldown on spawner will simply make it less challenging to fight against and less profitable to capture. Basically making a quarter of a spawner outta a single spawner.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
1. Increasing mob spawn rates will promote grinding more and fighting less, since fights will be riskier and mobility less valuable than positioning in item gathering.
2. Denying players ability to kill mobs through half block hole would have to change the entire mechanics of slabs and hitboxes. And I could be certain that players would find one way or another to circumvent it, like 2-3 block tall pillars as killzones.
3. Fall damage and water everywhere won't do, many of current grinders work on behalf of mobs themselves walking into water streams that cut through normal spawning zones. Trapdoors can also be used to make mobs fall through the floor. Even if you change mob AI not to walk over open trapdoors, there is still an option to connect trapdoors to a redstone clock so that they from time to time open and close back again. The only solution is to make mobs always stand still and avoid flowing water, and never go on trapdoors, open or closed, and that will severely impact their fighting abilities in various ways - and give players another method of circumventing slab killhole exploit removal.
4. Adding extra cooldown on spawner will simply make it less challenging to fight against and less profitable to capture. Basically making a quarter of a spawner outta a single spawner.
Without mob spawners, some resources in the game would be too much of a grind to get anyway, so what's your point? the solution to the exploits I've mentioned about them isn't to get rid of mob spawners, and such a change is very unlikely to be popular because of how long they've existed as a legit mechanic in the game and how many people actually use them.
You fix mob spawners by patching the exploits, design them so players have to actively put themselves at risk to take advantage of the loot they reward you with for killing the mobs, risk vs reward is how it should be done, as this is the point of making a game fun is it not?
As I said before while it wouldn't be perfect, it would be a good start to prevent players from damaging hostile mobs by attacking through half slab holes, and so there needs to be an opening a hostile mob can come through. You could even redesign mob spawners so that if their pathfinding is unable to determine a path to the player, they drop no loot upon death, and that would be one exploit permanently removed from Mob Spawners.
Another patch could be something along the lines of hostile mobs must take no environmental damage in order for players to be rewarded with loot drops upon death, it should not matter whether the environmental damage killed the mob or not, if they are hurt by fall damage, fire, lava, drowning or suffocation etc, it should remove their XP and item drops so they cannot drop them when the player finishes them off.
Make a suggestion yourself on how to improve the mob spawning system,
but their removal is going to make the game much more grindy and tedious than it already is now,
which would discourage a lot of people from even playing the game. Instead suggest an alternative that gives players
an incentive to keep on playing. Just because a mechanic causes you to waste time, doesn't mean it is challenging,
too many people confuse the two and all that is going to achieve is a ruined game.
Without mob spawners, some resources in the game would be too much of a grind to get anyway, so what's your point? the solution to the exploits I've mentioned about them isn't to get rid of mob spawners, and such a change is very unlikely to be popular because of how long they've existed as a legit mechanic in the game and how many people actually use them.
You fix mob spawners by patching the exploits, design them so players have to actively put themselves at risk to take advantage of the loot they reward you with for killing the mobs, risk vs reward is how it should be done, as this is the point of making a game fun is it not?
On the other hand it deincentivizes building actual farms. I sometimes go killing mobs in regular combat because I'm too lazy to go build a grinder.
Strip mining is not a very dangerous task, yet it allows obtaining precious minerals, the same applies for farming giant spruces to chop to sticks and buy solid gear from villagers.
As I said before while it wouldn't be perfect, it would be a good start to prevent players from damaging hostile mobs by attacking through half slab holes, and so there needs to be an opening a hostile mob can come through.
Even if they blocked sword strikes they would still let entities through, allowing you to kill them via arrows.
You could even redesign mob spawners so that if their pathfinding is unable to determine a path to the player, they drop no loot upon death, and that would be one exploit permanently removed from Mob Spawners.
Another patch could be something along the lines of hostile mobs must take no environmental damage in order for players to be rewarded with loot drops upon death, it should not matter whether the environmental damage killed the mob or not, if they are hurt by fall damage, fire, lava, drowning or suffocation etc, it should remove their XP and item drops so they cannot drop them when the player finishes them off.
Congratulations, you just took away the entire purpose of building colossal, resource intensive mob farms and enraged thousands of engineers who worked long hours to get those clankers set up and operational, whose entire work was in one update funneled into garbage chute.
Also, Mojang is not willing to do this thing even to Iron Golems getting grinded in iron farms.
Besides, over time players will still find easy ways to get a massive edge in combat, like using a narrow, uphill pathway and a piercing crossbow to area-damage mobs, or just have enough dogs or golems to swarmkill anything and everything short of creepers (that in turn are afraid of dogs).
There are also things that slow mobs down nearly to a halt while not technically stopping mobs, like cobwebs, soul sand or even a trench full of water, and blockades that mobs don't register as blockades and still force their way through, for example a piston connected to a pressure plate that pushes the mob whenever it tries to climb a staircase.
Grinderkommandants will find the ways to make the fight unfair...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
On the other hand it deincentivizes building actual farms. I sometimes go killing mobs in regular combat because I'm too lazy to go build a grinder.
Strip mining is not a very dangerous task, yet it allows obtaining precious minerals, the same applies for farming giant spruces to chop to sticks and buy solid gear from villagers.
Strip mining can be dangerous though, if you're not wearing armour then even touching lava can be enough to kill you, especially since compared to regular fire it leaves a longer lasting burn status effect, having a bucket of water helps, but only if you're not trapped in the lava too long.
This isn't the downside of mining I'm getting at though, the problem with mining is some resources are either too scarce, or even if they are, those resources are not renewable and so can create problems in the long term for people on a world. It means eventually you need to relocate your mine, some of the fastest ways to deplete Iron are anvils and hoppers, if you build large farms using those mob spawner systems, it's a considerable resource drain.
I surmise this was one of the reasons why Mojang made mending to make your gear last forever so long as you took care of it, it removed tedium from mining so you weren't forced to mine all the time and through progression, you eventually ended up with the freedom to build large structures and only ever had to mine for additional resources when it involved something like an Iron door or some decoration block etc.
It may not be very balanced, but it is understandable why it was designed this way when you take the time to think it over, it's a sandbox with survival as a feature, not a strictly hardcore survival game.
My disagreement with eiche has to do with the suggestion that Mob Spawners should self destruct after a set number of spawns, which would essentially make them a useless feature since they wouldn't benefit players in any way over natural spawning mechanics of the game. We do agree that the current Mob Spawning mechanics are not thought out very well, but the problems of Mob Spawners stem from the fact they can give players unlimited resources for just standing around all day AFKing.
My opinions on Iron Golem farms over time also changed, I don't agree that their Iron drops should be removed entirely, but I do think players should be expected to engage them in direct combat if they want the renewable Iron drops, an alternative is to make certain biomes yield more Iron Ore, or larger Ore veins, such as Jungle Biomes.
I do understand your point about automation however, that you wish for redstone and hopper setups to have some sort of a purpose when players are advanced, the problem is using Mob Spawners in this way essentially removes any need to go mining for said resources, far more than even mending ever does. What's the point in going to mine for Iron if you're just going to get it for free in vast amounts, just for idling near your automated grinder?
I don't have a problem with Mob Spawners being used for renewable resources,
I just have a problem with them being exploited in ways that are not intended, nor are beneficial for the game.
Besides you can do very interesting things with Mob Spawners if you put your mind to it,
you can use them to make a Monster Battle arena which would make their drops feel actually earned and be more fun to get,
instead of just standing in one place, killing them in a trap as soon as they spawn using an overpowered sword. Increasing their spawn rates could make them more difficult to grind in this way, but unless the other exploits are removed that only stands to make them more broken than they are now. The way Mob Spawners work now, it means players are able to get unlimited resources without themselves or their gear damaged, sometimes AFK, sometimes not, but players tend to abuse them in other ways that mean the hostile mobs are unable to fight back or even give chase.
4. Adding extra cooldown on spawner will simply make it less challenging to fight against and less profitable to capture. Basically making a quarter of a spawner outta a single spawner.
I think you misunderstood what they meant by a "cooldown":
If a mob spawner spawns too many mobs (about 50 when most consecutive spawn attempts succeed) within a short time mobs spawned will no longer drop anything (excluding items they picked up) until a certain amount of time has passed, taking longer to fully reset (up to 50000 ticks or 2500 seconds; if the player is outside of the activation range and the counter is below the activation threshold the time is 1/4 as long. At least 1200 ticks or 60 seconds must elapse without any new spawns for mobs to start dropping loot again.
This is a feature in TMCW to offset the greatly increased spawn rates (up to 6 mobs as often as every 5 seconds - that's more than one mob every second, averaging half this rate for a zombie spawner (5-15 seconds), or 3.75 times the spawn rate per mob of vanilla; of course, TMCW's "attack penalty" feature only reduces attack damage if you miss or hit a mob during its damage immunity period so you can actually kill mobs that fast) and the addition of mobs like creepers and witches so dungeons are actually a challenge - no rushing in and breaking the spawner before it even has a chance to spawn more than once (there are even "double dungeons", which contain two spawners spawning two different types of mobs; strongholds also have spawners placed under the chests in hallways and silverfish spawners under the bookshelves in libraries, and desert temples may have two skeleton and/or zombie spawners in the upper part).
This still allows you to get plenty of drops, e.g. 50 blaze rods at an average of one per blaze (more with Looting), and with rare exceptions they don't spawn that many mobs until I destroy the spawner while caving, while preventing outright exploits (TMCW nerfs mob farms in general, and particularly ones that give mineral resources, e.g. iron golems only drop iron if directly killed bay a player, in favor of a playstyle like my own, where I get vastly more resources and XP than I need while caving for fun; you CAN still make farms but they won't be as effective (natural mob spawning is 4 times slower per chunk, which is still more than enough to keep the cap filled under normal conditions, even while flying around in Creative), and if you are AFK it doesn't really matter how quickly they can produce - I've even seen claims of 100,000 items per hour. Of course, mob spawners won't work unless you have some contraption to regularly move the player in and out of range).
My disagreement with eiche has to do with the suggestion that Mob Spawners should self destruct after a set number of spawns, which would essentially make them a useless feature since they wouldn't benefit players in any way over natural spawning mechanics of the game. We do agree that the current Mob Spawning mechanics are not thought out very well, but the problems of Mob Spawners stem from the fact they can give players unlimited resources for just standing around all day AFKing.
The most valuable ressource here would be arrows imo. I don't know if it's a thing to farm strings using mobspawners.
Personally don't have a problem with ppl using mobspawners to build simpler farms.
My problem is that there are too many simple dungeons, most of them unexposed,
while the surface barely has any decorational structures like desert wells.
I think simple dungeons should be replaced with big rare dungeons that are fun to explore.
If those dungeons where filled with mobspawners, they would defenetly need a nerf.
Right now, spawners are a rare find with minimum reward & challange unless you find a skeleton spawner imo.
Of corse the simple dungeon comes with good loot but it's design is just an airpocket.
I can't see myself searching hours to maybe find a skeleton spawner when i could build a simple ugly tower after some stripmining, with overall better spawn rates.
I think you misunderstood what they meant by a "cooldown":
This is a feature in TMCW to offset the greatly increased spawn rates (up to 6 mobs as often as every 5 seconds - that's more than one mob every second, averaging half this rate for a zombie spawner (5-15 seconds), or 3.75 times the spawn rate per mob of vanilla; of course, TMCW's "attack penalty" feature only reduces attack damage if you miss or hit a mob during its damage immunity period so you can actually kill mobs that fast) and the addition of mobs like creepers and witches so dungeons are actually a challenge - no rushing in and breaking the spawner before it even has a chance to spawn more than once (there are even "double dungeons", which contain two spawners spawning two different types of mobs; strongholds also have spawners placed under the chests in hallways and silverfish spawners under the bookshelves in libraries, and desert temples may have two skeleton and/or zombie spawners in the upper part).
This still allows you to get plenty of drops, e.g. 50 blaze rods at an average of one per blaze (more with Looting), and with rare exceptions they don't spawn that many mobs until I destroy the spawner while caving, while preventing outright exploits (TMCW nerfs mob farms in general, and particularly ones that give mineral resources, e.g. iron golems only drop iron if directly killed bay a player, in favor of a playstyle like my own, where I get vastly more resources and XP than I need while caving for fun; you CAN still make farms but they won't be as effective (natural mob spawning is 4 times slower per chunk, which is still more than enough to keep the cap filled under normal conditions, even while flying around in Creative), and if you are AFK it doesn't really matter how quickly they can produce - I've even seen claims of 100,000 items per hour. Of course, mob spawners won't work unless you have some contraption to regularly move the player in and out of range).
I've come to accept that your solution is fair, 50 drops affected by Looting should be plenty for players in the overwhelming majority of cases provided that the cool down didn't last too long. And as for Blaze rods there are very few uses for them, they are important, And it's probably wasteful to use them as a fuel source considering both coal and charcoal are both renewable and are often times a lot safer to get, either by mining Coal in the Overworld which is a super abundant resource, or making Charcoal which is easily made using furnaces and a reasonably sized wood farm, 2 by 2 jungle trees and spruce would give the maximum wood yield per sapling.
You can smelt or cook more items per unit with Blaze rods, but most players would hardly ever use them for this purpose because of the fact that they are in the Nether, and the Nether is harder to survive in. Even if you did somehow manage to get a lot of Blaze rods there, they're still not as efficient as wood farming because with Blaze Spawners you have to wait until Blazes spawn before you have a chance to get their loot, and killing them doesn't always cause them to drop Blaze rods, sometimes you only get XP. With wood you're guaranteed a fuel source, trees will always grow so long as they are planted in dirt and there is enough space for them.
But the advantage Blaze rods have over other resources is obvious, they are needed for potions, and you can't make an Ender chest without them, as you need blaze powder, and you also need blaze powder to reach End. It shouldn't take 54 (or even a single) stacks of Blaze rods to achieve this, at most you can get away with about 16 blaze rods and you'll have enough Eye of Ender to make the End portal AND find the stronghold, I know because I've done it before. For every unit of Blaze rod you get 2 Blaze powder, and 16 blaze rods would net you 32 Eye of Enders, if you're lucky you'll have enough for an Ender chest or 2 when all is said and done.
A cool down shouldn't last more than an in game day though, regardless of what it is affecting imo, because there will come a point where the player would need more of said resource, the further out they go in each dimension the more Ender chests they're going to need to craft.
I mean, cool down on trades with Villagers don't last longer than a day, so I don't see why it should be any different for mob drops, we're talking about having players wait up to 20 minutes which may take up most of the spare time the player has depending on if they need to get up for work in the next morning or if they have to get up for school or college, even if they had a day off, 20 minutes is still a long time to wait just to wait for a cool down, I know you haven't suggested it be this long TMC, I'm just making sure people understand that there are limits to what they will tolerate.
While I do find cool downs on Villager trades to be iffy when over farming of said resources in a short amount of time can simply be fixed by increasing prices of said trade items. A cool down is more understandable in the case of mob drops however, and I do support that. With trades you still need to do work to make goods that Villagers find valuable in order to receive a valuable item in return, but Mob Spawners are a different story, they're too easily cheesed right now, and they should be a lot more challenging to farm imo.
Add way more caves underground, and also add new cave mobs, like cave skeletons, which throw bones, and way more types of slimes. Like ocean slimes, nether slimes, jungle slimes, etc. Also, add mobs called jungle creepers, which are basically jungle spiders. NEW TYPES of trees like medium trees, supertall trees, etc
add these pls
I'd rather have more cave systems to explore and more hostile mobs to encounter within those caves to fight,
instead of simply making the game more grindy, which is an unimaginative and unoriginal way to add challenge to a game in most situations.
I do agree we should have more types of trees in the Overworld too, I've said before I would like cherry blossom and willow to be added to make forests much more vibrant and fun to explore.
In a Wildlife update, after 1.19, I hope Mojang considers this, adding more plant life and animals into the game besides just frogs, fireflies and mangrove trees. There are quite literally hundreds of different mobs and plants they could add to the game that would make the Overworld much less boring.
I wouldn't mind more neutral mobs being added either, such as hippopotamus, swans, penguins, seagulls etc.
As well as hostile mobs like sharks, that rarely but do attack players in the ocean biomes, having the probability of said attack being increased if players are low on health or if they are carrying raw meat or rotten flesh. Stuff like this would improve the game a lot, as opposed to simply reducing the rate of what goodies mobs drop after killing them, which often makes the game tedious and not fun to play.
I like the idea of skeletons throwing bones unless they spawn with a bow.
That would be funny. Reminds me of the Trumpet-Skeleton mod somehow.
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
I'd also want some Skeletons to carry a shield, I mean really, not every server is going to have PVP enabled, or even if they do they may not be actively griefing each other, in which case shields have very limited and circumstantial use.
This would give axes somewhat a better use in combat since you could use the axe to do more damage than with a sword, which makes sense.
I'd want Skeletons to do a lot more than just throw bones whenever they don't have a bow or sword. If they carried shields then fighting them would be more fun and engaging.
Skeleton Legionnaires, eh?
Support, I find shields being the bread-and-butter of any serious melee combat, and I am somewhat disappointed that they are completely absent when it comes to mobs themselves for some reason.
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
Agreed, it would mean players would need to be more careful around them and when aiming arrows at Skeletons, Skeletons could attempt to block the incoming arrows when they see the player pull out a bow or trident. Forcing players to fight them in close combat with a sword or axe. If a Skeleton is in water, players could simply ignore them and walk away, since in water Skeletons are slower, they could block arrows or tridents with their shield, but then they could sink to the bottom of the water in doing so, so players would have a way to kill them in water if they had to.
I'd like to point out, that the mobs don't seem to have the AI to "use" shields yet. I don't oppose, as long as the pathfinding works smoothly.
It would be fun!
Imagine equiped mobs spawning from mobspawners. Imo Spawners should be tweaked. In a way,
that they break after a certain number of mobs spawned AND give more valuable drop (exp + maybe loot) when destroyed asap.
From the vanilla spawners only the skeleton spawner has some value as a mobgrinder imo becouse easy arrows.
The other 3 are rather useless, unless you don't fell like building a proper mobfarm.
I know many ppl would disagree with me on that one, but the thing is:
Spawners are all over the place! I was shocked, when i first tried ESP modifiactions to locate some mob spawners for testing.
Ofcorse most of them aren't exposed in caves, instead they are sealed off and close to the surface.
That's a bad design. Whe could use rare middle-hard dungeons, witth lot's of spawners exposed by ruins on the surface.
Maybe something simular to Roguelike Dungeons. (That mod has mobs spawning with shields btw)
Everytime i enter one of those, i know I'm gonna die for crap loot. But it's the challange in those small hallways that calls out to me as an explorer.
I feel kinda confident, to handel everything in front of me. Untill diamond armed babyzombies charge in.
To be honest, these dungeons are way more fun then raiding a mansion
Let's get rid of overseen spammed mob spawners and add rare dungeon structures. No one complains about woodland mansions in the game.
But some people complain about difficulty/reward ratio. Doesn't matter to me, if the structure is a fun challange,
isntead of mobs that attack you trough walls.
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
Or, instead of making a feature useless or completely defeating the point of their implementation to begin with
how about redesigning mob spawners so they are more challenging to farm? by increasing the spawn rates of hostile mobs and making it so they cannot be cheesed as easily. For example make it so players can no longer hit mobs through a half block hole, design the mob spawners so they can't work in water or over a drop where the hostile mobs would take fall damage, and adding a cool down on mob spawner drops according to TheMasterCaver's idea. This way you can only get about 50 drops per in game day or something like that.
1. Increasing mob spawn rates will promote grinding more and fighting less, since fights will be riskier and mobility less valuable than positioning in item gathering.
2. Denying players ability to kill mobs through half block hole would have to change the entire mechanics of slabs and hitboxes. And I could be certain that players would find one way or another to circumvent it, like 2-3 block tall pillars as killzones.
3. Fall damage and water everywhere won't do, many of current grinders work on behalf of mobs themselves walking into water streams that cut through normal spawning zones. Trapdoors can also be used to make mobs fall through the floor. Even if you change mob AI not to walk over open trapdoors, there is still an option to connect trapdoors to a redstone clock so that they from time to time open and close back again. The only solution is to make mobs always stand still and avoid flowing water, and never go on trapdoors, open or closed, and that will severely impact their fighting abilities in various ways - and give players another method of circumventing slab killhole exploit removal.
4. Adding extra cooldown on spawner will simply make it less challenging to fight against and less profitable to capture. Basically making a quarter of a spawner outta a single spawner.
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
Without mob spawners, some resources in the game would be too much of a grind to get anyway, so what's your point? the solution to the exploits I've mentioned about them isn't to get rid of mob spawners, and such a change is very unlikely to be popular because of how long they've existed as a legit mechanic in the game and how many people actually use them.
You fix mob spawners by patching the exploits, design them so players have to actively put themselves at risk to take advantage of the loot they reward you with for killing the mobs, risk vs reward is how it should be done, as this is the point of making a game fun is it not?
As I said before while it wouldn't be perfect, it would be a good start to prevent players from damaging hostile mobs by attacking through half slab holes, and so there needs to be an opening a hostile mob can come through. You could even redesign mob spawners so that if their pathfinding is unable to determine a path to the player, they drop no loot upon death, and that would be one exploit permanently removed from Mob Spawners.
Another patch could be something along the lines of hostile mobs must take no environmental damage in order for players to be rewarded with loot drops upon death, it should not matter whether the environmental damage killed the mob or not, if they are hurt by fall damage, fire, lava, drowning or suffocation etc, it should remove their XP and item drops so they cannot drop them when the player finishes them off.
Make a suggestion yourself on how to improve the mob spawning system,
but their removal is going to make the game much more grindy and tedious than it already is now,
which would discourage a lot of people from even playing the game. Instead suggest an alternative that gives players
an incentive to keep on playing. Just because a mechanic causes you to waste time, doesn't mean it is challenging,
too many people confuse the two and all that is going to achieve is a ruined game.
On the other hand it deincentivizes building actual farms. I sometimes go killing mobs in regular combat because I'm too lazy to go build a grinder.
Strip mining is not a very dangerous task, yet it allows obtaining precious minerals, the same applies for farming giant spruces to chop to sticks and buy solid gear from villagers.
Even if they blocked sword strikes they would still let entities through, allowing you to kill them via arrows.
Congratulations, you just took away the entire purpose of building colossal, resource intensive mob farms and enraged thousands of engineers who worked long hours to get those clankers set up and operational, whose entire work was in one update funneled into garbage chute.
Also, Mojang is not willing to do this thing even to Iron Golems getting grinded in iron farms.
Besides, over time players will still find easy ways to get a massive edge in combat, like using a narrow, uphill pathway and a piercing crossbow to area-damage mobs, or just have enough dogs or golems to swarmkill anything and everything short of creepers (that in turn are afraid of dogs).
There are also things that slow mobs down nearly to a halt while not technically stopping mobs, like cobwebs, soul sand or even a trench full of water, and blockades that mobs don't register as blockades and still force their way through, for example a piston connected to a pressure plate that pushes the mob whenever it tries to climb a staircase.
Grinderkommandants will find the ways to make the fight unfair...
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
Strip mining can be dangerous though, if you're not wearing armour then even touching lava can be enough to kill you, especially since compared to regular fire it leaves a longer lasting burn status effect, having a bucket of water helps, but only if you're not trapped in the lava too long.
This isn't the downside of mining I'm getting at though, the problem with mining is some resources are either too scarce, or even if they are, those resources are not renewable and so can create problems in the long term for people on a world. It means eventually you need to relocate your mine, some of the fastest ways to deplete Iron are anvils and hoppers, if you build large farms using those mob spawner systems, it's a considerable resource drain.
I surmise this was one of the reasons why Mojang made mending to make your gear last forever so long as you took care of it, it removed tedium from mining so you weren't forced to mine all the time and through progression, you eventually ended up with the freedom to build large structures and only ever had to mine for additional resources when it involved something like an Iron door or some decoration block etc.
It may not be very balanced, but it is understandable why it was designed this way when you take the time to think it over, it's a sandbox with survival as a feature, not a strictly hardcore survival game.
My disagreement with eiche has to do with the suggestion that Mob Spawners should self destruct after a set number of spawns, which would essentially make them a useless feature since they wouldn't benefit players in any way over natural spawning mechanics of the game. We do agree that the current Mob Spawning mechanics are not thought out very well, but the problems of Mob Spawners stem from the fact they can give players unlimited resources for just standing around all day AFKing.
My opinions on Iron Golem farms over time also changed, I don't agree that their Iron drops should be removed entirely, but I do think players should be expected to engage them in direct combat if they want the renewable Iron drops, an alternative is to make certain biomes yield more Iron Ore, or larger Ore veins, such as Jungle Biomes.
I do understand your point about automation however, that you wish for redstone and hopper setups to have some sort of a purpose when players are advanced, the problem is using Mob Spawners in this way essentially removes any need to go mining for said resources, far more than even mending ever does. What's the point in going to mine for Iron if you're just going to get it for free in vast amounts, just for idling near your automated grinder?
I don't have a problem with Mob Spawners being used for renewable resources,
I just have a problem with them being exploited in ways that are not intended, nor are beneficial for the game.
Besides you can do very interesting things with Mob Spawners if you put your mind to it,
you can use them to make a Monster Battle arena which would make their drops feel actually earned and be more fun to get,
instead of just standing in one place, killing them in a trap as soon as they spawn using an overpowered sword. Increasing their spawn rates could make them more difficult to grind in this way, but unless the other exploits are removed that only stands to make them more broken than they are now. The way Mob Spawners work now, it means players are able to get unlimited resources without themselves or their gear damaged, sometimes AFK, sometimes not, but players tend to abuse them in other ways that mean the hostile mobs are unable to fight back or even give chase.
I think you misunderstood what they meant by a "cooldown":
This is a feature in TMCW to offset the greatly increased spawn rates (up to 6 mobs as often as every 5 seconds - that's more than one mob every second, averaging half this rate for a zombie spawner (5-15 seconds), or 3.75 times the spawn rate per mob of vanilla; of course, TMCW's "attack penalty" feature only reduces attack damage if you miss or hit a mob during its damage immunity period so you can actually kill mobs that fast) and the addition of mobs like creepers and witches so dungeons are actually a challenge - no rushing in and breaking the spawner before it even has a chance to spawn more than once (there are even "double dungeons", which contain two spawners spawning two different types of mobs; strongholds also have spawners placed under the chests in hallways and silverfish spawners under the bookshelves in libraries, and desert temples may have two skeleton and/or zombie spawners in the upper part).
This still allows you to get plenty of drops, e.g. 50 blaze rods at an average of one per blaze (more with Looting), and with rare exceptions they don't spawn that many mobs until I destroy the spawner while caving, while preventing outright exploits (TMCW nerfs mob farms in general, and particularly ones that give mineral resources, e.g. iron golems only drop iron if directly killed bay a player, in favor of a playstyle like my own, where I get vastly more resources and XP than I need while caving for fun; you CAN still make farms but they won't be as effective (natural mob spawning is 4 times slower per chunk, which is still more than enough to keep the cap filled under normal conditions, even while flying around in Creative), and if you are AFK it doesn't really matter how quickly they can produce - I've even seen claims of 100,000 items per hour. Of course, mob spawners won't work unless you have some contraption to regularly move the player in and out of range).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
The most valuable ressource here would be arrows imo. I don't know if it's a thing to farm strings using mobspawners.
Personally don't have a problem with ppl using mobspawners to build simpler farms.
My problem is that there are too many simple dungeons, most of them unexposed,
while the surface barely has any decorational structures like desert wells.
I think simple dungeons should be replaced with big rare dungeons that are fun to explore.
If those dungeons where filled with mobspawners, they would defenetly need a nerf.
Right now, spawners are a rare find with minimum reward & challange unless you find a skeleton spawner imo.
Of corse the simple dungeon comes with good loot but it's design is just an airpocket.
Simple Dungeon Loottable from 1.16.5
{
"type": "minecraft:chest",
"pools": [
{
"rolls": {
"min": 1.0,
"max": 3.0,
"type": "minecraft:uniform"
},
"entries": [
{
"type": "minecraft:item",
"weight": 20,
"name": "minecraft:saddle"
},
{
"type": "minecraft:item",
"weight": 15,
"name": "minecraft:golden_apple"
},
{
"type": "minecraft:item",
"weight": 2,
"name": "minecraft:enchanted_golden_apple"
},
{
"type": "minecraft:item",
"weight": 15,
"name": "minecraft:music_disc_13"
},
{
"type": "minecraft:item",
"weight": 15,
"name": "minecraft:music_disc_cat"
},
{
"type": "minecraft:item",
"weight": 20,
"name": "minecraft:name_tag"
},
{
"type": "minecraft:item",
"weight": 10,
"name": "minecraft:golden_horse_armor"
},
{
"type": "minecraft:item",
"weight": 15,
"name": "minecraft:iron_horse_armor"
},
{
"type": "minecraft:item",
"weight": 5,
"name": "minecraft:diamond_horse_armor"
},
{
"type": "minecraft:item",
"weight": 10,
"functions": [
{
"function": "minecraft:enchant_randomly"
}
],
"name": "minecraft:book"
}
]
},
{
"rolls": {
"min": 1.0,
"max": 4.0,
"type": "minecraft:uniform"
},
"entries": [
{
"type": "minecraft:item",
"weight": 10,
"functions": [
{
"function": "minecraft:set_count",
"count": {
"min": 1.0,
"max": 4.0,
"type": "minecraft:uniform"
}
}
],
"name": "minecraft:iron_ingot"
},
{
"type": "minecraft:item",
"weight": 5,
"functions": [
{
"function": "minecraft:set_count",
"count": {
"min": 1.0,
"max": 4.0,
"type": "minecraft:uniform"
}
}
],
"name": "minecraft:gold_ingot"
},
{
"type": "minecraft:item",
"weight": 20,
"name": "minecraft:bread"
},
{
"type": "minecraft:item",
"weight": 20,
"functions": [
{
"function": "minecraft:set_count",
"count": {
"min": 1.0,
"max": 4.0,
"type": "minecraft:uniform"
}
}
],
"name": "minecraft:wheat"
},
{
"type": "minecraft:item",
"weight": 10,
"name": "minecraft:bucket"
},
{
"type": "minecraft:item",
"weight": 15,
"functions": [
{
"function": "minecraft:set_count",
"count": {
"min": 1.0,
"max": 4.0,
"type": "minecraft:uniform"
}
}
],
"name": "minecraft:redstone"
},
{
"type": "minecraft:item",
"weight": 15,
"functions": [
{
"function": "minecraft:set_count",
"count": {
"min": 1.0,
"max": 4.0,
"type": "minecraft:uniform"
}
}
],
"name": "minecraft:coal"
},
{
"type": "minecraft:item",
"weight": 10,
"functions": [
{
"function": "minecraft:set_count",
"count": {
"min": 2.0,
"max": 4.0,
"type": "minecraft:uniform"
}
}
],
"name": "minecraft:melon_seeds"
},
{
"type": "minecraft:item",
"weight": 10,
"functions": [
{
"function": "minecraft:set_count",
"count": {
"min": 2.0,
"max": 4.0,
"type": "minecraft:uniform"
}
}
],
"name": "minecraft:pumpkin_seeds"
},
{
"type": "minecraft:item",
"weight": 10,
"functions": [
{
"function": "minecraft:set_count",
"count": {
"min": 2.0,
"max": 4.0,
"type": "minecraft:uniform"
}
}
],
"name": "minecraft:beetroot_seeds"
}
]
},
{
"rolls": 3,
"entries": [
{
"type": "minecraft:item",
"weight": 10,
"functions": [
{
"function": "minecraft:set_count",
"count": {
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"max": 8.0,
"type": "minecraft:uniform"
}
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],
"name": "minecraft:bone"
},
{
"type": "minecraft:item",
"weight": 10,
"functions": [
{
"function": "minecraft:set_count",
"count": {
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"max": 8.0,
"type": "minecraft:uniform"
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}
],
"name": "minecraft:gunpowder"
},
{
"type": "minecraft:item",
"weight": 10,
"functions": [
{
"function": "minecraft:set_count",
"count": {
"min": 1.0,
"max": 8.0,
"type": "minecraft:uniform"
}
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],
"name": "minecraft:rotten_flesh"
},
{
"type": "minecraft:item",
"weight": 10,
"functions": [
{
"function": "minecraft:set_count",
"count": {
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"max": 8.0,
"type": "minecraft:uniform"
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"name": "minecraft:string"
}
]
}
]
}
Edit:
I can't see myself searching hours to maybe find a skeleton spawner when i could build a simple ugly tower after some stripmining, with overall better spawn rates.
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
I've come to accept that your solution is fair, 50 drops affected by Looting should be plenty for players in the overwhelming majority of cases provided that the cool down didn't last too long. And as for Blaze rods there are very few uses for them, they are important, And it's probably wasteful to use them as a fuel source considering both coal and charcoal are both renewable and are often times a lot safer to get, either by mining Coal in the Overworld which is a super abundant resource, or making Charcoal which is easily made using furnaces and a reasonably sized wood farm, 2 by 2 jungle trees and spruce would give the maximum wood yield per sapling.
You can smelt or cook more items per unit with Blaze rods, but most players would hardly ever use them for this purpose because of the fact that they are in the Nether, and the Nether is harder to survive in. Even if you did somehow manage to get a lot of Blaze rods there, they're still not as efficient as wood farming because with Blaze Spawners you have to wait until Blazes spawn before you have a chance to get their loot, and killing them doesn't always cause them to drop Blaze rods, sometimes you only get XP. With wood you're guaranteed a fuel source, trees will always grow so long as they are planted in dirt and there is enough space for them.
But the advantage Blaze rods have over other resources is obvious, they are needed for potions, and you can't make an Ender chest without them, as you need blaze powder, and you also need blaze powder to reach End. It shouldn't take 54 (or even a single) stacks of Blaze rods to achieve this, at most you can get away with about 16 blaze rods and you'll have enough Eye of Ender to make the End portal AND find the stronghold, I know because I've done it before. For every unit of Blaze rod you get 2 Blaze powder, and 16 blaze rods would net you 32 Eye of Enders, if you're lucky you'll have enough for an Ender chest or 2 when all is said and done.
A cool down shouldn't last more than an in game day though, regardless of what it is affecting imo, because there will come a point where the player would need more of said resource, the further out they go in each dimension the more Ender chests they're going to need to craft.
I mean, cool down on trades with Villagers don't last longer than a day, so I don't see why it should be any different for mob drops, we're talking about having players wait up to 20 minutes which may take up most of the spare time the player has depending on if they need to get up for work in the next morning or if they have to get up for school or college, even if they had a day off, 20 minutes is still a long time to wait just to wait for a cool down, I know you haven't suggested it be this long TMC, I'm just making sure people understand that there are limits to what they will tolerate.
While I do find cool downs on Villager trades to be iffy when over farming of said resources in a short amount of time can simply be fixed by increasing prices of said trade items. A cool down is more understandable in the case of mob drops however, and I do support that. With trades you still need to do work to make goods that Villagers find valuable in order to receive a valuable item in return, but Mob Spawners are a different story, they're too easily cheesed right now, and they should be a lot more challenging to farm imo.