Structures with hostiles surrounding them shouldn't appear on the surface of the Overworld because of the risk of spawning besides one and being immediately under fire. Pillagers are weak but I've had cases of spawning near ocean structures, zombie villages, witch huts, or dungeons as well.
The problem that often comes up about survival is it makes little difference whether you have a structure or not. If you've got good armour on as well as a milk bucket or two then night time isn't hard to survive.
We need more reasons to spawn proof our areas or to build a house, protecting your chests and other placed items from Creepers isn't enough.
Adding in climate and its affect on players and their crops would be a game changer, and it would definitely give survival mode the overhaul it needs.
It wouldn't address the hostile mob issue directly, but it would change the game environment to make it feel more like a survival game.
Cold water should also be a hazard to players if they don't use a boat, frost walker enchantment or something like the Elytra to get over the ocean or lake that is in a cold biome. While leather armour could be made to prevent players from freezing and initiating Slowness debuff while out of water but in a cold biome, cold water could actually be changed to slowly damage players if they remain in it for too long, adding in a hypothermia effect.
Adding in the Phantom in the Aquatic update did make beds more necessary, but you can use beds outside, so beds are still overpowered,
if hostile mobs were able to wake players up if they used beds in unsafe areas, then it would encourage more base building.
Beds would be more balanced if players actually had to use them in a well lit house, cave or hole if they wanted to switch to day time,
beds definitely should not be used outside in the dark where every hostile mob can spawn.
Another thing that could reward building and make builds actually functional is the greenhouse thing you brought up before.
Having glass protect your plants from extreme cold and having light sources inside to melt the ice into liquid water for your crops and your trees would make greenhouse builds useful.
Builds are more satisfying when they do a function, if you want to play on normal difficulty for hostile mobs to spawn at night time, that's fair enough, hostile mobs do have important loot in the game and without Skeletons you'd have a less efficient way of getting bone meal, compost bins kind of suck for that unfortunately.
Neither Hazi nor myself are suggesting your build ought to be griefed or not be permanent,
but we would like builds and likewise campfires to be functional in the game, at the moment, campfires are only good for cooking food and producing light, which furnaces already do, and extracting honey from beehives if you care about that, but it's not really that useful imo.
But if temperature were to be a direct hazard to players and their crops on normal difficulty or higher, then campfires would have a unique use that is critical for survival. Easy difficulty could let players toggle temperature off.
The campfire is a great item!
Why waste coal in the early game to cook, when a campfire can cook infinite food?
It does require you to refill manually after the cooking process and it's certainly slow.
The only downside i see with it is that you can only mine it with silktouch.
So it's best use is for an early starterbase, where you know you stick around and mine a bit.
And i don't go for coal. I just need enough for a stack of torches and to smelt the iron.
Once i'm geared up, i start exploring. At that point the campfire becomes unattractive, unless i run short on coal & cooked food.
It is useful, we just play different.
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My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
Why waste coal in the early game to cook, when a campfire can cook infinite food?
It does require you to refill manually after the cooking process and it's certainly slow.
The only downside i see with it is that you can only mine it with silktouch.
So it's best use is for an early starterbase, where you know you stick around and mine a bit.
And i don't go for coal. I just need enough for a stack of torches and to smelt the iron.
Once i'm geared up, i start exploring. At that point the campfire becomes unattractive, unless i run short on coal & cooked food.
It is useful, we just play different.
Charcoal is renewable and can be used in either smokers or furnaces, it's not difficult to use, and smokers have the advantage of cooking your food quicker in addition to doing a whole stack of 64, not just 4 at a time on a campfire.
Hazi's temperature suggestion would make campfires better at something furnaces are not, keeping player characters warm in extreme cold climates.
Otherwise campfires are already doing something that another item does with the exception of honey extraction. I'm not saying campfires are bad, but Minecraft never really suffered without them.
Glamorizing the temperature mechanic a bit too much. Within a day or two of it being in the game the same thread could be posted. I don't think I would ever welcome the performance hit for such mechanics with how little it impacts game-play.
The problem that often comes up about survival is it makes little difference whether you have a structure or not. If you've got good armour on as well as a milk bucket or two then night time isn't hard to survive.
We need more reasons to spawn proof our areas or to build a house, protecting your chests and other placed items from Creepers isn't enough.
Adding in climate and its affect on players and their crops would be a game changer, and it would definitely give survival mode the overhaul it needs.
It wouldn't address the hostile mob issue directly, but it would change the game environment to make it feel more like a survival game.
Cold water should also be a hazard to players if they don't use a boat, frost walker enchantment or something like the Elytra to get over the ocean or lake that is in a cold biome. While leather armour could be made to prevent players from freezing and initiating Slowness debuff while out of water but in a cold biome, cold water could actually be changed to slowly damage players if they remain in it for too long, adding in a hypothermia effect.
Adding in the Phantom in the Aquatic update did make beds more necessary, but you can use beds outside, so beds are still overpowered,
if hostile mobs were able to wake players up if they used beds in unsafe areas, then it would encourage more base building.
Beds would be more balanced if players actually had to use them in a well lit house, cave or hole if they wanted to switch to day time,
beds definitely should not be used outside in the dark where every hostile mob can spawn.
I Like that idea about beds. I feel as though you shouldn't be able to sleep in a bed if it isn't in a fully enclosed home or structure. This would give incentive to make many bases around your map on your travels. maybe during your journey just build a few 5x5 houses with chest, furnaces and beds in them, i would could them travel bases. That might be too difficult for some and probably not liked so, you should be able to craft sleeping bags that have a durability of 3 uses and no respawn point. This would help with cheesing night time and traveling with no threat. On easy mode or peaceful you could sleep anywhere in beds, once again for builders.
As far as temperature goes campfire should be the best go to if your out in the cold and did not prep clothing or things to counter the cold. Furnaces, candles and lava pools should also provide heat. Meaning you'd probably want to carry around a bucket of lava with you as well. Dig a hole and dump lava in it. When standing close to it you heat up for a couple seconds, that shouldn't be cheesed though and only heat you up for a bit so your better off just carrying something like cooling clothing or armor. Same for overheating, soul torches should cool you off, as well as sitting in water or eating watermelon. Leather armor should be good at cooling you down and wool armor should be good at heating you up but provides little damage protection. Lastly new enchantments and potions, cooling 1, and cooling 2, heating 1, and heating 2 should be very rare enchants you could get on armor which are enchants only bought from villagers, same as mending. Potions should be craft able to give you temporary resistance against temperatures, cooling 1 or heating 1 for 2 minutes. Potions would be good for people who did not get the enchants on armor yet or hate wearing clothing that has very little protection against damage but protection against temperature. So just bring about 4 potions or so and you could still wear your diamond gear in the cold or heat. If you choose to live in a desert or ice biome then you'd better be working towards cooling 2 or heating 2 enchants on some of your gear for constant immunity.
I Like that idea about beds. I feel as though you shouldn't be able to sleep in a bed if it isn't in a fully enclosed home or structure. This would give incentive to make many bases around your map on your travels. maybe during your journey just build a few 5x5 houses with chest, furnaces and beds in them. That might be too difficult for some and probably not liked so, you should be able to craft sleeping bags that have a durability of 3 uses and no respawn point. This would help with cheesing night time and traveling with no threat.
As far as temperature goes campfire should be the best go to if your out in the cold and did not prep clothing or things to counter the cold. Furnaces, candles and lava pools should also provide heat. Meaning you'd probably want to carry around a bucket of lava with you as well. Dig a hole and dump lava in it. When standing close to it you heat up for a couple seconds, that shouldn't be cheesed though and only heat you up for a bit so your better off just carrying something like cooling clothing or armor. Same for overheating, soul torches should cool you off, as well as sitting in water or eating watermelon. Lastly new enchantments and potions, cooling 1, and cooling 2, heating 1, and heating 2 should be very rare enchants you could get on armor which are 30 lvl enchants. Potions should be craft able to give you temporary resistance against temperatures, cooling 1 or heating 1 for 60
Yes, it fits within the context of sandbox and survival genre like Minecraft, which is fundamentally about building, in survival builds should serve a purpose and reward or encourage creativity, whether they are to protect players while they are sorting through chest items, enchanting or repairing stuff on an anvil or table, or provide buffs to statistics, that sort of thing.
With items like the campfire, as well as fireplaces inside bases or houses, they can and should be used to keep players warm in cold biomes. If players are not wearing armour or clothes, then unless they are near a heat source their character body temp should fall, if it reaches zero, Slowness status remains constant until they manage to warm themselves up again. And if they are in water in a cold biome, hypothermia status could me made to cause damage over time if the temp is zero, if the player doesn't get out of the water in time, they die.
The workaround for the hazardous water in the Ice biomes is Frost walker enchantment, magma blocks which warm the ocean floor in a small radius, or conduit, conduit could be used to protect players from the extreme cold in the water and drowning.
As for lava, the heat radius of them could be limited to about 16 blocks, while regular fire and likewise campfire can be limited to 8 per block.
So without armour or clothing, players would have to sit no more than 8 blocks away from the fire if they want to avoid the Slowness status from stage 1 hypothermia, stage 2 hypothermia would cause damage but is only initiated by being in water in an Ice biome.
Yes, it fits within the context of sandbox and survival genre like Minecraft, which is fundamentally about building, in survival builds should serve a purpose and reward or encourage creativity, whether they are to protect players while they are sorting through chest items, enchanting or repairing stuff on an anvil or table, or provide buffs to statistics, that sort of thing.
With items like the campfire, as well as fireplaces inside bases or houses, they can and should be used to keep players warm in cold biomes. If players are not wearing armour or clothes, then unless they are near a heat source their character body temp should fall, if it reaches zero, Slowness status remains constant until they manage to warm themselves up again. And if they are in water in a cold biome, hypothermia status could me made to cause damage over time if the temp is zero, if the player doesn't get out of the water in time, they die.
The workaround for the hazardous water in the Ice biomes is Frost walker enchantment, magma blocks which warm the ocean floor in a small radius, or conduit, conduit could be used to protect players from the extreme cold in the water and drowning.
As for lava, the heat radius of them could be limited to about 16 blocks, while regular fire and likewise campfire can be limited to 8 per block.
So without armour or clothing, players would have to sit no more than 8 blocks away from the fire if they want to avoid the Slowness status from stage 1 hypothermia, stage 2 hypothermia would cause damage but is only initiated by being in water in an Ice biome.
I updated my post i think this is more fitting and thought out what you think ?
Edit...
I Like that idea about beds. I feel as though you shouldn't be able to sleep in a bed if it isn't in a fully enclosed home or structure. This would give incentive to make many bases around your map on your travels. maybe during your journey just build a few 5x5 houses with chest, furnaces and beds in them, i would could them travel bases. That might be too difficult for some and probably not liked so, you should be able to craft sleeping bags that have a durability of 3 uses and no respawn point. This would help with cheesing night time and traveling with no threat. On easy mode or peaceful you could sleep anywhere in beds, once again for builders.
As far as temperature goes campfire should be the best go to if your out in the cold and did not prep clothing or things to counter the cold. Furnaces, candles and lava pools should also provide heat. Meaning you'd probably want to carry around a bucket of lava with you as well. Dig a hole and dump lava in it. When standing close to it you heat up for a couple seconds, that shouldn't be cheesed though and only heat you up for a bit so your better off just carrying something like cooling clothing or armor. Same for overheating, soul torches should cool you off, as well as sitting in water or eating watermelon. Leather armor should be good at cooling you down and wool armor should be good at heating you up but provides little damage protection. Lastly new enchantments and potions, cooling 1, and cooling 2, heating 1, and heating 2 should be very rare enchants you could get on armor which are enchants only bought from villagers, same as mending. Potions should be craft able to give you temporary resistance against temperatures, cooling 1 or heating 1 for 2 minutes. Potions would be good for people who did not get the enchants on armor yet or hate wearing clothing that has very little protection against damage but protection against temperature. So just bring about 4 potions or so and you could still wear your diamond gear in the cold or heat. If you choose to live in a desert or ice biome then you'd better be working towards cooling 2 or heating 2 enchants on some of your gear for constant immunity.
- Response
That frost walker idea would be neat, and there should be 3 levels to temp. cold, freezing and hypothermia, same with heat. Which each level the player getting more severe debuffs and even death if your in level 3 status too long your health bar slowly falls as it does when your starving, on normal you'll be left at a half a heart on hard you'll die.
I'm almost certain the the dev's for Minecraft have enough intelligence to make a code that can determine if a structure is enclosed. If you want to make a structure to the sky the so be it as long as you leave no holes in it. It's pretty simple actually many survival games have that mechanic. In Valheim you can not use certain crafting stations unless its in a enclosed structure or home. Lets not make it more difficult than it has to be you know ?
As for sheep i think sheers are good enough.
Cool idea about stealing beds though, I feel as though you shouldn't be able to steal or sleep in a villagers bed. Maybe give villagers names and each villager owns their own bed and if you try to sleep in it it will be like multiplayer when you try to open someone's chest. You get an Alert " Unable to sleep this is Bob's bed" If you mine the bed then it breaks and drops no item? This would be a pain to start off though lol i my self instantly look for a village when starting a map and steal all their stuff, but it definitely makes sense. Maybe this could be a hard and hardcore mode feature only.
I'm almost certain the the dev's for Minecraft have enough intelligence to make a code that can determine if a structure is enclosed. If you want to make a structure to the sky the so be it as long as you leave no holes in it. It's pretty simple actually many survival games have that mechanic. Lets not make it more difficult than it has to be you know ?
As for sheep i think sheers are good enough.
Cool idea about stealing beds though, I feel as though you shouldn't be able to steal or sleep in a villagers bed. Maybe give villagers names and each villager owns their own bed and if you try to sleep in it it will be like multiplayer when you try to open someone's chest. You get an Alert " Unable to sleep this is Bob's bed" If you mine the bed then it breaks and drops no item? This would be a pain to start off though lol i my self instantly look for a village when starting a map and steal all their stuff, but it definitely makes sense. Maybe this could be a hard and hardcore mode feature only.
The problem is not how to code it. The problem is for a new player to get a working bed.
If you need a tutorial on what minecraft considers a sleeping room, new players might skip survival mode.
Remember your first nights in minecraft. They where terrifying, wheren't they?
On the other hand it would dictate any other player how to build this bedroom. That's not a good chioce!
Mojang holds back on so many ideas, just to not grief players builds.
About the villager bed problem: Why do villagers stand up if we rightclick them? Isn't that rude?
If that mechanic where to be removed and mining beds would require silktouch, you would need to find a free bed.
Seems fair to me.
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My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
The problem is not how to code it. The problem is for a new player to get a working bed.
If you need a tutorial on what minecraft considers a sleeping room, new players might skip survival mode.
Remember your first nights in minecraft. They where terrifying, wheren't they?
On the other hand it would dictate any other player how to build this bedroom. That's not a good chioce!
Mojang holds back on so many ideas, just to not grief players builds.
About the villager bed problem: Why do villagers stand up if we rightclick them? Isn't that rude?
If that mechanic where to be removed and mining beds would require silktouch, you would need to find a free bed.
Seems fair to me.
It will be a little learning curve i guess, which all games have. "I get it now i have to make a house before i can sleep" You could honestly make a 5x5 out of dirt if you need to for the first night, I don't think that would be a problem. I knew that beginners would find a problem with that, thats why i added the idea of a sleeping bag which is cheaper to craft and have 3 durability uses but has no respawn point. Sleeping in a bed at night time is pretty overpowered and you could totally avoid all hostile mobs. Its pretty cheesy to be honest. Sleeping bags are a middle ground where you only have 3 night to sleep and would need 2 wool and 2 sticks to craft another, It should mainly be used for travel and not to cheese every night in a infinite use bed to see no mobs or threat.
It will be a little learning curve i guess. "I get it now i have to make a house before i can sleep" You could honeslty make a 5x5 out of mud if you need to for the first night, I don't think that would be a problem. I knew that, beginners would find a problem with that, thats why i added the idea of a sleeping bag which is cheaper to craft and have 3 durability uses but has no respawn point. Sleeping in a bed at night time is pretty overpowered and you could totally avoid all hostile mobs. Its pretty cheesy to be honest. Sleeping bags are a middle ground where you only have 3 night to sleep and would need 2 wool and 2 sticks to craft another, It should mainly be used for travel and not to cheese every night in a infinite use bed to see no mobs or threat.
Most new players start by building dirthuts before crafting or using beds, without even thinking of just skipping the nights early while exploring.
The pressure of hostile mobs coming with the night makes them nervous and triggers an important instinct: Shelter.
I understand that minecraft lacks realism here and there but needing a structure just to sleep won't make it harder to skip the night.
Just annoying for those who choose not to expose themselfs to danger. I could just mine 3 blocks underground, cover the hole.
Mine a fiew blocks untill the structure space is reached and use the bad. If that for some reason doesn't count, i can just afk untill dawn.
It's not harder, it's just annoying. And from a realism standpoint: you wouldn't place a bed everywhere. But what prevents you to sleep anywhere?
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My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
Most new players start by building dirthuts before crafting or using beds, without even thinking of just skipping the nights early while exploring.
The pressure of hostile mobs coming with the night makes them nervous and triggers an important instinct: Shelter.
I understand that minecraft lacks realism here and there but needing a structure just to sleep won't make it harder to skip the night.
Just annoying for those who choose not to expose themselfs to danger. I could just mine 3 blocks underground, cover the hole.
Mine a fiew blocks untill the structure space is reached and use the bad. If that for some reason doesn't count, i can just afk untill dawn.
It's not harder, it's just annoying. And from a realism standpoint: you wouldn't place a bed everywhere. But what prevents you to sleep anywhere?
Just make a sleeping bag as i mentioned earlier instead of bed ? Its cheaper to craft and combats all the problems you listed. It only has 3 uses though, which is more than enough time to build a starter home. Beds are over powered and cheesy. why have night time at all if all you need is a one time craft able bed that can be your savoir from night time for ever ?
Just make a sleeping bag as i mentioned earlier instead of bed ? That combats all the problems you listed. It only has 3 uses though. Beds are over powered and cheesy. why have night time at all if all you need is a one time craft able bed that can be your savoir for ever ?
I'm going to contradict myself but however:
First of all, if you don't lock your game difficulty you don't even need a bed. (singleplayer ofc)
If gathering whool requires sheering instead of killing + mining beds requires silktouch you can't run around with the same bed.
If you break down the bed into 2 wool and sticks (aka sleeping bag), it's even easyer to skip the first night, even if it's a consumable item.
It would at least require 3 wool to keep the "difficulty".
I can live with greenhouses beeing necessary for importing plants into different biomes but i am against structure rules for using beds.
We don't need new items to skip nights. And i don't miss those "valid doors" from 1.13 and before.
That's exactly what i think about, even if it's not realy related.
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My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
First of all, if you don't lock your game difficulty you don't even need a bed. (singleplayer ofc)
If gathering whool requires sheering instead of killing + mining beds requires silktouch you can't run around with the same bed.
If you break down the bed into 2 wool and sticks (aka sleeping bag), it's even easyer to skip the first night, even if it's a consumable item.
It would at least require 3 wool to keep the "difficulty".
I can live with greenhouses beeing necessary for importing plants into different biomes but i am against structure rules for using beds.
We don't need new items to skip nights. And i don't miss those "valid doors" from 1.13 and before.
That's exactly what i think about, even if it's not realy related.
The problem isn't skipping the first night, the problem is running around after the first night with a infinite use bed which is cheese your pretty much immune to night time. If you use your 3 sleeping bag uses and are somewhere with out sheep your screwed. You'd probably killed all your sheep in your vicinity depending primarily on sleeping bags and not invested in building a home with a bed. This mechanic is just to reduce the night time cheese and actually give incentive to build little huts around your map. Why have hostile night time mobs if all you need is a one time bed to avoid them forever ? Its pretty counter productive.
I mean you could eventually do the same with sleeping bags if you get a sheep farm but at least the beginning wont be so damn easy, it will be at least mid game before you are able to make a boat load of sleeping bags. Sleeping bags should also have triple the radius at which you cant sleep if a hostile mob is near because your are outside and are victim to what ever near by, so sleeping bags would only work if you do it right before sunset or in desolate area to make some balance. Sleeping bags should really be last resort and a poor mans bed with worst qualities mainly for short travel.
I'm getting totally off topic though lol this post is mostly about new mobs both hostile and passive, temperature, survival mechanics and even some sort of power. Mostly just life in general to the game, the dev focused pretty much on only terrain and biome generation for the last decade.. Mobs are sadly lacking far behind everything else they have updated.
The problem isn't skipping the first night, the problem is running around after the first night with a infinite use bed which is cheese your pretty much immune to night time. If you use your 3 sleeping bag uses and are somewhere with out sheep your screwed. You'd probably killed all your sheep in your vicinity depending primarily on sleeping bags and not invested in building a home with a bed. This mechanic is just to reduce the night time cheese and actually give incentive to build little huts around your map. Why have hostile night time mobs if all you need is a one time bed to avoid them forever ? Its pretty counter productive.
I mean you could eventually do the same with sleeping bags if you get a sheep farm but at least the beginning wont be so damn easy, it will be at least mid game before you are able to make a boat load of sleeping bags. Sleeping bags should also have triple the radius at which you cant sleep if a hostile mob is near because your are outside and are victim to what ever near by, so sleeping bags would only work if you do it right before sunset or in desolate area to make some balance. Sleeping bags should really be last resort and a poor mans bed with worst qualities mainly for short travel.
I'm getting totally off topic though lol this post is mostly about new mobs both hostile and passive, temperature, survival mechanics and even some sort of power. Mostly just life in general to the game, the dev focused pretty much on only terrain and biome generation for the last decade.. Mobs are sadly lacking far behind everything else they have updated.
I agree with the sleeping bags idea, also it should only be allowed 3 times before a cool down is initiated.
But the rebalancing beds desperately need are what I said earlier, they should necessitate a secure base or well lit hole or cave to be used, otherwise there's a risk of hostile mobs waking the player up in the middle of the night.
Also if a player had recently logged out of a world whilst it was night time, beds should be on a 2 minute cool-down, to prevent them being cheesed.
Or better still, the player who logged out has to wait 2 minutes before they can log back into the world. If they don't want the 2 minutes delay to return, then they should get their own bed and use them like everybody else.
The only problem left with beds is their abusable explosive properties that have been used to kill the Ender Dragon in End and mining ancient Debris in Nether. If beds were nerfed so they could no longer be used for any of that, beds would be balanced and would function properly, meaning their purpose is to allow players to go to day time in Overworld when all requirements have been met, and to set a spawn location, all other benefits from beds imo is a cheat.
I agree both Beds and Fishing definitely are in need of a long overdue redesign for this game.
Ever since they added fish mobs to the game the need for a fishing rod has shifted towards gambling away your time to collect the other items you can get while fishing besides fish. To fix this I would love to see if there was some kind of interaction between the fish mobs and the fishing rod. This way players would have to actually find a school of fish to start their fishing adventure instead of popping down some water in a make shift hole in the ground and start fishing there. Also there needs to be some established benefits from using a fishing rod to catch fish as apposed to going in cave man style and fishing that way. One thing they could do is simply make Fishing Rods hand over more Exp points with each fish being caught by rod and there could even be enchantments meant only for the fishing rod that would double or even triple the amount of acquired Exp points.
Now as for Beds, I agree lots of things need to happen here for beds. If an update were to happen where Beds were nerfed and the Devs removed the fact that it explodes both in the Neather and in the End dimension and players simply couldn't place these items down in these dimension, I would say that is not enough. I personally think Beds should only be obtained through crafting them and after placed down will remain there until destroyed. Also after a player dies they should be presented a dual option request as to where you can respawn meaning that you have the option to respawn either in your main base bed or in your side base bed, this way if you were to venture to far out from your main base and you died and somehow lost all your personal items leaving you stranded where all you have left is your bare fist you wouldn't felt pressured into building up another base and start all over again to re-group to make the long voyage back to base.
Beds exploding in nether, understandable to ask changes for that. I don't know why you guys are focusing so much on beds outside of that. You can just build a dirt block hut or safe hole in no time flat at night time if they were to 'nerf' beds. Realistically just adding steps, an inconvenience, not really adding depth. Having more control over respawn would be nice tho.
I agree both Beds and Fishing definitely are in need of a long overdue redesign for this game.
Ever since they added fish mobs to the game the need for a fishing rod has shifted towards gambling away your time to collect the other items you can get while fishing besides fish. To fix this I would love to see if there was some kind of interaction between the fish mobs and the fishing rod. This way players would have to actually find a school of fish to start their fishing adventure instead of popping down some water in a make shift hole in the ground and start fishing there. Also there needs to be some established benefits from using a fishing rod to catch fish as apposed to going in cave man style and fishing that way. One thing they could do is simply make Fishing Rods hand over more Exp points with each fish being caught by rod and there could even be enchantments meant only for the fishing rod that would double or even triple the amount of acquired Exp points.
Now as for Beds, I agree lots of things need to happen here for beds. If an update were to happen where Beds were nerfed and the Devs removed the fact that it explodes both in the Neather and in the End dimension and players simply couldn't place these items down in these dimension, I would say that is not enough. I personally think Beds should only be obtained through crafting them and after placed down will remain there until destroyed. Also after a player dies they should be presented a dual option request as to where you can respawn meaning that you have the option to respawn either in your main base bed or in your side base bed, this way if you were to venture to far out from your main base and you died and somehow lost all your personal items leaving you stranded where all you have left is your bare fist you wouldn't felt pressured into building up another base and start all over again to re-group to make the long voyage back to base.
The selective respawn option mechanic I like, but imo should only allow players to set and choose between 3 locations in the Overworld, and also allow respawn to origin at the death screen, technically giving players 4 respawn areas to go to. More beds can be used obviously in this case, but only 3 of them will have an allowed spawn location per player with this update I'm suggesting.
How should it work? the 3 most recent beds get their spawn locations, players can take advantage of this by destroying then replacing beds at 3 different bases last. Or alternatively, players could change their respawn locations through the inventory menu, coordinates of where each bed could be shown in the new inventory system and players could select them at will.
This would allow using deaths as teleports and with an enderchest there would be no penalty whatsoever (except xp, which is easily farmable). I don't think having multiple respawn location would be implemented.
The problem that often comes up about survival is it makes little difference whether you have a structure or not. If you've got good armour on as well as a milk bucket or two then night time isn't hard to survive.
We need more reasons to spawn proof our areas or to build a house, protecting your chests and other placed items from Creepers isn't enough.
Adding in climate and its affect on players and their crops would be a game changer, and it would definitely give survival mode the overhaul it needs.
It wouldn't address the hostile mob issue directly, but it would change the game environment to make it feel more like a survival game.
Cold water should also be a hazard to players if they don't use a boat, frost walker enchantment or something like the Elytra to get over the ocean or lake that is in a cold biome. While leather armour could be made to prevent players from freezing and initiating Slowness debuff while out of water but in a cold biome, cold water could actually be changed to slowly damage players if they remain in it for too long, adding in a hypothermia effect.
Adding in the Phantom in the Aquatic update did make beds more necessary, but you can use beds outside, so beds are still overpowered,
if hostile mobs were able to wake players up if they used beds in unsafe areas, then it would encourage more base building.
Beds would be more balanced if players actually had to use them in a well lit house, cave or hole if they wanted to switch to day time,
beds definitely should not be used outside in the dark where every hostile mob can spawn.
The campfire is a great item!
Why waste coal in the early game to cook, when a campfire can cook infinite food?
It does require you to refill manually after the cooking process and it's certainly slow.
The only downside i see with it is that you can only mine it with silktouch.
So it's best use is for an early starterbase, where you know you stick around and mine a bit.
And i don't go for coal. I just need enough for a stack of torches and to smelt the iron.
Once i'm geared up, i start exploring. At that point the campfire becomes unattractive, unless i run short on coal & cooked food.
It is useful, we just play different.
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
Charcoal is renewable and can be used in either smokers or furnaces, it's not difficult to use, and smokers have the advantage of cooking your food quicker in addition to doing a whole stack of 64, not just 4 at a time on a campfire.
Hazi's temperature suggestion would make campfires better at something furnaces are not, keeping player characters warm in extreme cold climates.
Otherwise campfires are already doing something that another item does with the exception of honey extraction. I'm not saying campfires are bad, but Minecraft never really suffered without them.
Glamorizing the temperature mechanic a bit too much. Within a day or two of it being in the game the same thread could be posted. I don't think I would ever welcome the performance hit for such mechanics with how little it impacts game-play.
I Like that idea about beds. I feel as though you shouldn't be able to sleep in a bed if it isn't in a fully enclosed home or structure. This would give incentive to make many bases around your map on your travels. maybe during your journey just build a few 5x5 houses with chest, furnaces and beds in them, i would could them travel bases. That might be too difficult for some and probably not liked so, you should be able to craft sleeping bags that have a durability of 3 uses and no respawn point. This would help with cheesing night time and traveling with no threat. On easy mode or peaceful you could sleep anywhere in beds, once again for builders.
As far as temperature goes campfire should be the best go to if your out in the cold and did not prep clothing or things to counter the cold. Furnaces, candles and lava pools should also provide heat. Meaning you'd probably want to carry around a bucket of lava with you as well. Dig a hole and dump lava in it. When standing close to it you heat up for a couple seconds, that shouldn't be cheesed though and only heat you up for a bit so your better off just carrying something like cooling clothing or armor. Same for overheating, soul torches should cool you off, as well as sitting in water or eating watermelon. Leather armor should be good at cooling you down and wool armor should be good at heating you up but provides little damage protection. Lastly new enchantments and potions, cooling 1, and cooling 2, heating 1, and heating 2 should be very rare enchants you could get on armor which are enchants only bought from villagers, same as mending. Potions should be craft able to give you temporary resistance against temperatures, cooling 1 or heating 1 for 2 minutes. Potions would be good for people who did not get the enchants on armor yet or hate wearing clothing that has very little protection against damage but protection against temperature. So just bring about 4 potions or so and you could still wear your diamond gear in the cold or heat. If you choose to live in a desert or ice biome then you'd better be working towards cooling 2 or heating 2 enchants on some of your gear for constant immunity.
But how can you determine if a bed is used "inside"? If the player has a block between his head and the sky?
You could place your bed under a tree or a cliff.
It wouldn't even work with light level beeing low or high becouse of petential mobs spawning in your bedroom or lavalakes spending light.
The further we think this, the more confusing beds become.
Some time ago, someone in this forum suggested wool only beeing gatherable by using sheers instead of just killing sheeps.
Let's expand on that and make mining beds require silktouch.
That way you have to carefully think where to build a base and more important: You can't just steal a bed.
Sleep in the village or get your own bed. This may sound harsh but the bed IS the most powerful item.
It can even be used as a weapon!
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
Yes, it fits within the context of sandbox and survival genre like Minecraft, which is fundamentally about building, in survival builds should serve a purpose and reward or encourage creativity, whether they are to protect players while they are sorting through chest items, enchanting or repairing stuff on an anvil or table, or provide buffs to statistics, that sort of thing.
With items like the campfire, as well as fireplaces inside bases or houses, they can and should be used to keep players warm in cold biomes. If players are not wearing armour or clothes, then unless they are near a heat source their character body temp should fall, if it reaches zero, Slowness status remains constant until they manage to warm themselves up again. And if they are in water in a cold biome, hypothermia status could me made to cause damage over time if the temp is zero, if the player doesn't get out of the water in time, they die.
The workaround for the hazardous water in the Ice biomes is Frost walker enchantment, magma blocks which warm the ocean floor in a small radius, or conduit, conduit could be used to protect players from the extreme cold in the water and drowning.
As for lava, the heat radius of them could be limited to about 16 blocks, while regular fire and likewise campfire can be limited to 8 per block.
So without armour or clothing, players would have to sit no more than 8 blocks away from the fire if they want to avoid the Slowness status from stage 1 hypothermia, stage 2 hypothermia would cause damage but is only initiated by being in water in an Ice biome.
I updated my post i think this is more fitting and thought out what you think ?
Edit...
I Like that idea about beds. I feel as though you shouldn't be able to sleep in a bed if it isn't in a fully enclosed home or structure. This would give incentive to make many bases around your map on your travels. maybe during your journey just build a few 5x5 houses with chest, furnaces and beds in them, i would could them travel bases. That might be too difficult for some and probably not liked so, you should be able to craft sleeping bags that have a durability of 3 uses and no respawn point. This would help with cheesing night time and traveling with no threat. On easy mode or peaceful you could sleep anywhere in beds, once again for builders.
As far as temperature goes campfire should be the best go to if your out in the cold and did not prep clothing or things to counter the cold. Furnaces, candles and lava pools should also provide heat. Meaning you'd probably want to carry around a bucket of lava with you as well. Dig a hole and dump lava in it. When standing close to it you heat up for a couple seconds, that shouldn't be cheesed though and only heat you up for a bit so your better off just carrying something like cooling clothing or armor. Same for overheating, soul torches should cool you off, as well as sitting in water or eating watermelon. Leather armor should be good at cooling you down and wool armor should be good at heating you up but provides little damage protection. Lastly new enchantments and potions, cooling 1, and cooling 2, heating 1, and heating 2 should be very rare enchants you could get on armor which are enchants only bought from villagers, same as mending. Potions should be craft able to give you temporary resistance against temperatures, cooling 1 or heating 1 for 2 minutes. Potions would be good for people who did not get the enchants on armor yet or hate wearing clothing that has very little protection against damage but protection against temperature. So just bring about 4 potions or so and you could still wear your diamond gear in the cold or heat. If you choose to live in a desert or ice biome then you'd better be working towards cooling 2 or heating 2 enchants on some of your gear for constant immunity.
- Response
That frost walker idea would be neat, and there should be 3 levels to temp. cold, freezing and hypothermia, same with heat. Which each level the player getting more severe debuffs and even death if your in level 3 status too long your health bar slowly falls as it does when your starving, on normal you'll be left at a half a heart on hard you'll die.
I'm almost certain the the dev's for Minecraft have enough intelligence to make a code that can determine if a structure is enclosed. If you want to make a structure to the sky the so be it as long as you leave no holes in it. It's pretty simple actually many survival games have that mechanic. In Valheim you can not use certain crafting stations unless its in a enclosed structure or home. Lets not make it more difficult than it has to be you know ?
As for sheep i think sheers are good enough.
Cool idea about stealing beds though, I feel as though you shouldn't be able to steal or sleep in a villagers bed. Maybe give villagers names and each villager owns their own bed and if you try to sleep in it it will be like multiplayer when you try to open someone's chest. You get an Alert " Unable to sleep this is Bob's bed" If you mine the bed then it breaks and drops no item? This would be a pain to start off though lol i my self instantly look for a village when starting a map and steal all their stuff, but it definitely makes sense. Maybe this could be a hard and hardcore mode feature only.
The problem is not how to code it. The problem is for a new player to get a working bed.
If you need a tutorial on what minecraft considers a sleeping room, new players might skip survival mode.
Remember your first nights in minecraft. They where terrifying, wheren't they?
On the other hand it would dictate any other player how to build this bedroom. That's not a good chioce!
Mojang holds back on so many ideas, just to not grief players builds.
About the villager bed problem: Why do villagers stand up if we rightclick them? Isn't that rude?
If that mechanic where to be removed and mining beds would require silktouch, you would need to find a free bed.
Seems fair to me.
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
It will be a little learning curve i guess, which all games have. "I get it now i have to make a house before i can sleep" You could honestly make a 5x5 out of dirt if you need to for the first night, I don't think that would be a problem. I knew that beginners would find a problem with that, thats why i added the idea of a sleeping bag which is cheaper to craft and have 3 durability uses but has no respawn point. Sleeping in a bed at night time is pretty overpowered and you could totally avoid all hostile mobs. Its pretty cheesy to be honest. Sleeping bags are a middle ground where you only have 3 night to sleep and would need 2 wool and 2 sticks to craft another, It should mainly be used for travel and not to cheese every night in a infinite use bed to see no mobs or threat.
Most new players start by building dirthuts before crafting or using beds, without even thinking of just skipping the nights early while exploring.
The pressure of hostile mobs coming with the night makes them nervous and triggers an important instinct: Shelter.
I understand that minecraft lacks realism here and there but needing a structure just to sleep won't make it harder to skip the night.
Just annoying for those who choose not to expose themselfs to danger. I could just mine 3 blocks underground, cover the hole.
Mine a fiew blocks untill the structure space is reached and use the bad. If that for some reason doesn't count, i can just afk untill dawn.
It's not harder, it's just annoying. And from a realism standpoint: you wouldn't place a bed everywhere. But what prevents you to sleep anywhere?
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
Just make a sleeping bag as i mentioned earlier instead of bed ? Its cheaper to craft and combats all the problems you listed. It only has 3 uses though, which is more than enough time to build a starter home. Beds are over powered and cheesy. why have night time at all if all you need is a one time craft able bed that can be your savoir from night time for ever ?
I'm going to contradict myself but however:
First of all, if you don't lock your game difficulty you don't even need a bed. (singleplayer ofc)
If gathering whool requires sheering instead of killing + mining beds requires silktouch you can't run around with the same bed.
If you break down the bed into 2 wool and sticks (aka sleeping bag), it's even easyer to skip the first night, even if it's a consumable item.
It would at least require 3 wool to keep the "difficulty".
I can live with greenhouses beeing necessary for importing plants into different biomes but i am against structure rules for using beds.
We don't need new items to skip nights. And i don't miss those "valid doors" from 1.13 and before.
That's exactly what i think about, even if it's not realy related.
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
The problem isn't skipping the first night, the problem is running around after the first night with a infinite use bed which is cheese your pretty much immune to night time. If you use your 3 sleeping bag uses and are somewhere with out sheep your screwed. You'd probably killed all your sheep in your vicinity depending primarily on sleeping bags and not invested in building a home with a bed. This mechanic is just to reduce the night time cheese and actually give incentive to build little huts around your map. Why have hostile night time mobs if all you need is a one time bed to avoid them forever ? Its pretty counter productive.
I mean you could eventually do the same with sleeping bags if you get a sheep farm but at least the beginning wont be so damn easy, it will be at least mid game before you are able to make a boat load of sleeping bags. Sleeping bags should also have triple the radius at which you cant sleep if a hostile mob is near because your are outside and are victim to what ever near by, so sleeping bags would only work if you do it right before sunset or in desolate area to make some balance. Sleeping bags should really be last resort and a poor mans bed with worst qualities mainly for short travel.
I'm getting totally off topic though lol this post is mostly about new mobs both hostile and passive, temperature, survival mechanics and even some sort of power. Mostly just life in general to the game, the dev focused pretty much on only terrain and biome generation for the last decade.. Mobs are sadly lacking far behind everything else they have updated.
I agree with the sleeping bags idea, also it should only be allowed 3 times before a cool down is initiated.
But the rebalancing beds desperately need are what I said earlier, they should necessitate a secure base or well lit hole or cave to be used, otherwise there's a risk of hostile mobs waking the player up in the middle of the night.
Also if a player had recently logged out of a world whilst it was night time, beds should be on a 2 minute cool-down, to prevent them being cheesed.
Or better still, the player who logged out has to wait 2 minutes before they can log back into the world. If they don't want the 2 minutes delay to return, then they should get their own bed and use them like everybody else.
The only problem left with beds is their abusable explosive properties that have been used to kill the Ender Dragon in End and mining ancient Debris in Nether. If beds were nerfed so they could no longer be used for any of that, beds would be balanced and would function properly, meaning their purpose is to allow players to go to day time in Overworld when all requirements have been met, and to set a spawn location, all other benefits from beds imo is a cheat.
I agree both Beds and Fishing definitely are in need of a long overdue redesign for this game.
Ever since they added fish mobs to the game the need for a fishing rod has shifted towards gambling away your time to collect the other items you can get while fishing besides fish. To fix this I would love to see if there was some kind of interaction between the fish mobs and the fishing rod. This way players would have to actually find a school of fish to start their fishing adventure instead of popping down some water in a make shift hole in the ground and start fishing there. Also there needs to be some established benefits from using a fishing rod to catch fish as apposed to going in cave man style and fishing that way. One thing they could do is simply make Fishing Rods hand over more Exp points with each fish being caught by rod and there could even be enchantments meant only for the fishing rod that would double or even triple the amount of acquired Exp points.
Now as for Beds, I agree lots of things need to happen here for beds. If an update were to happen where Beds were nerfed and the Devs removed the fact that it explodes both in the Neather and in the End dimension and players simply couldn't place these items down in these dimension, I would say that is not enough. I personally think Beds should only be obtained through crafting them and after placed down will remain there until destroyed. Also after a player dies they should be presented a dual option request as to where you can respawn meaning that you have the option to respawn either in your main base bed or in your side base bed, this way if you were to venture to far out from your main base and you died and somehow lost all your personal items leaving you stranded where all you have left is your bare fist you wouldn't felt pressured into building up another base and start all over again to re-group to make the long voyage back to base.
Beds exploding in nether, understandable to ask changes for that. I don't know why you guys are focusing so much on beds outside of that. You can just build a dirt block hut or safe hole in no time flat at night time if they were to 'nerf' beds. Realistically just adding steps, an inconvenience, not really adding depth. Having more control over respawn would be nice tho.
The selective respawn option mechanic I like, but imo should only allow players to set and choose between 3 locations in the Overworld, and also allow respawn to origin at the death screen, technically giving players 4 respawn areas to go to. More beds can be used obviously in this case, but only 3 of them will have an allowed spawn location per player with this update I'm suggesting.
How should it work? the 3 most recent beds get their spawn locations, players can take advantage of this by destroying then replacing beds at 3 different bases last. Or alternatively, players could change their respawn locations through the inventory menu, coordinates of where each bed could be shown in the new inventory system and players could select them at will.
This would allow using deaths as teleports and with an enderchest there would be no penalty whatsoever (except xp, which is easily farmable). I don't think having multiple respawn location would be implemented.