So in the past, Notch has said that the Nether is at least figuratively underneath the main world, which makes sense for three major reasons:
1. The main world [referred to from now on as the Mainland] has a bedrock floor. The Nether has a bedrock ceiling. Anybody see where I'm going with this?
2. The Nether is full of lava/magma and rare minerals, both of which occur deep underground in real life.
3. The Nether is an in-game manifestation of a "hell," a common afterlife in many religions, though Notch has named it the Nether rather that hell because he does not want to bias the game toward any specific real-life religions. Hell is often portrayed as being in the center of the earth, which would work with the idea of the Nether being under the Mainland.
While this seems like a minor change to be implemented, it would be useful for several reasons.
1. If the Nether was remapped in the game as a continuation of the real world under the bedrock layer, it would allow portals to be used in SMP without any great code additions, as they would be similar to a warpgate or teleporter like those that exist in many Bukkit mods.
2. Also, it would eliminate the need for a loading screen like the one that is used to transport to the Nether, as chunks would be read from the same world rather that a separate one.
This would also represent several difficulties, for either a modder or Notch to implement.
1. Firstly, the remapping would destroy the idea of the Nether being 1/8 the size of the Mainland. There would be no way around this that I can think of. I have heard suggestions of making blocks 8 times larger, but think this would not work, in code or in implementation. My only notes are that portal transport could be implemented by having portals transport you a set number of blocks in the direction that they are built, so that one could transport, say 250 blocks forward, get in another portal, and transport another 250 blocks. I don't know what Notch's position is on the idea of nether teleportation, but I will have this thread, and any subsequent mods follow his beliefs on it.
2. This would also possible slow chunk generation/loading to 1/2 the time, unless the Nether chunks were loaded separately or the chunks were limited in height and stacked, which is also a possible performance improvement idea i have had, but I don't know if it has been suggested before.
3. The Void would have to be remapped to below the Nether, for obvious reasons.
4. The portals would have to be completely recoded, and this might cause compatibility issues with other mods or the game code.
Finally, I would like to suggest possible several additional improvements that could be implemented with this idea and work together with it. Any suggestions for this list MUST be related directly to this mod and not the Nether in general. e.g., I don't want people spamming the thread with "Let mobs go through portals so I can make an army of pigmen like the Wizard Burgmund!
1. The bedrock under the Mainland could be replaced with "Adminiglass" or a similar material, which is a name class edit of bedrock, and has exactly the same properties, but has a transparent texture so one could see the Nether underneath.
2. If a tunnel was made from the surface to Adminiglass, the sunlight would reach through and kill all Nether mobs, like a "light of god" effect, or the turning to stone of trolls in sunlight (lol The Hobbit). This light could also transform Netherrack into another material... stone or possibly a new one, as it was purified.
Lastly (and I know I already said finally, but this one's only for a few people), a note on modding/implementation.
This would hopefully be implemented by Notch, but I don't think he would like the loss of the 1/8 Nether scale. If you are reading this, Notch, please PM me with your comments.
However, that occurring is doubtful, so I will plan to try and release this as a plugin for Bukkit and a client mod.
One problem... I don't know how to mod.
I know Java OK, and could pick up the rest of it fast (within a few weeks), but I have no idea how to mod minecraft, as all I see in the class files is random class names and no actual variables named in english, so I know that I'm doing something wrong.
If any modders want to help me, I will do my best to help, and will work on the mod, but until that happens, I don't know what I'll do besides promote this idea (maybe on GS), and make some concept art. For now, I'll be working on sigs, hopefully to go up later this weekend, and some early concept art/screenshots.
Any suggestions are welcome, and I will consider them fairly, with one caveat:
I do not want to make the game easier. Portals or similarly difficult to build structures will be the only way to enter the Nether. I am against all mods that make the game easier, with the exception of those designed for creative mode. (e.g. flymod is good for building awesome cities, but not escaping creepers.)
Editlist:
2/26, 9:45 AM PST: Added notes on 1/8 size.
TL;DR: The Nether should be below the main world, and I want to make a mod if I can get help from an experienced modder.
I have had this idea for a while for the exact reason of (bottom of the overworld is bedrock... and the ceiling of the nether is bedrock). While yes... the 1/8 block movement would have to be eliminated, your ideas about "rays of god" are brilliant!
Portals PWN boats and minecarts so bad in the transportation department it isn't funny. Spawn to mob trap to distant building project to farthest point I've travelled in a 32 block walk? Hello? I am NOT giving up the Nether as a 1/8th world.
That said... is there a way to work around this problem? Perhaps rare gaps in bedrock would allow naturally created portals to the Nether ceiling. Another possibility is "shrinking" the neither so blocks are codes as being 8x the normal size, but so is your camera so you don't notice the difference until you climb through the adminium layer and go "Hey! I just grew/shrunk!"
Finally, sunlight should NOT be EVER ABLE to enter the Nether under ANY CONDITIONS WHATSOEVER. With the possible exception of a sunstone, if implemented.
EDIT: Nether has 8x larger blocks, not 8 times smaller.
Wait is this just a way to simplify things, or could you reach the nether from the over world?
He is stating that you can reach the nether from the overworld.
No, he isn't. Because of the layer of Adminiglass. The only way to reach the Nether from the surface, other than portals, would be a hole in the bedrock, or adminiglass.
Wait is this just a way to simplify things, or could you reach the nether from the over world?
He is stating that you can reach the nether from the overworld.
No, he isn't. Because of the layer of Adminiglass. The only way to reach the Nether from the surface, other than portals, would be a hole in the bedrock, or adminiglass.
Yes, the only purpose of the adminiglass would be to show the nether visually and possibly strategically, and to possible allow one to shine a "Ray of God" Down. Obviously this could be exploited in custom maps or custom servers, but I believe that making it possible to "go down" would make vanilla, mod-free minecraft too easy, which is a trend i see a lot with mods like IndustrialCraft. These mods, while they do introduce new ideas, often tend to make the game too easy.
Portals PWN boats and minecarts so bad in the transportation department it isn't funny. Spawn to mob trap to distant building project to farthest point I've travelled in a 32 block walk? Hello? I am NOT giving up the Nether as a 1/8th world.
That said... is there a way to work around this problem? Perhaps rare gaps in bedrock would allow naturally created portals to the Nether ceiling. Another possibility is "shrinking" the neither so blocks are codes as being 8x the normal size, but so is your camera so you don't notice the difference until you climb through the adminium layer and go "Hey! I just grew/shrunk!"
Finally, sunlight should NOT be EVER ABLE to enter the Nether under ANY CONDITIONS WHATSOEVER. With the possible exception of a sunstone, if implemented.
EDIT: Nether has 8x larger blocks, not 8 times smaller.
While I understand that the 1/8 block movement would be a painful loss, I believe that a way around it could be found. For instance, some kind of teleportation could be implemented, as I think that when one is able to build portals, it does not make the game easier to teleport, as long as the resources to build the teleport are hard enough to find. Perhaps portals would transport you to a spot in the Nether a set number of blocks away in the direction they are built? This system would allow you to build a similar transportation method.
P.S. Unrelated, but I just had the idea that you could put a nether inside a nether to make even faster travel. BWAAAAAAAM.....
INCEPTCRAFT
1. The main world [referred to from now on as the Mainland] has a bedrock floor. The Nether has a bedrock ceiling. Anybody see where I'm going with this?
2. The Nether is full of lava/magma and rare minerals, both of which occur deep underground in real life.
3. The Nether is an in-game manifestation of a "hell," a common afterlife in many religions, though Notch has named it the Nether rather that hell because he does not want to bias the game toward any specific real-life religions. Hell is often portrayed as being in the center of the earth, which would work with the idea of the Nether being under the Mainland.
While this seems like a minor change to be implemented, it would be useful for several reasons.
1. If the Nether was remapped in the game as a continuation of the real world under the bedrock layer, it would allow portals to be used in SMP without any great code additions, as they would be similar to a warpgate or teleporter like those that exist in many Bukkit mods.
2. Also, it would eliminate the need for a loading screen like the one that is used to transport to the Nether, as chunks would be read from the same world rather that a separate one.
This would also represent several difficulties, for either a modder or Notch to implement.
1. Firstly, the remapping would destroy the idea of the Nether being 1/8 the size of the Mainland. There would be no way around this that I can think of. I have heard suggestions of making blocks 8 times larger, but think this would not work, in code or in implementation. My only notes are that portal transport could be implemented by having portals transport you a set number of blocks in the direction that they are built, so that one could transport, say 250 blocks forward, get in another portal, and transport another 250 blocks. I don't know what Notch's position is on the idea of nether teleportation, but I will have this thread, and any subsequent mods follow his beliefs on it.
2. This would also possible slow chunk generation/loading to 1/2 the time, unless the Nether chunks were loaded separately or the chunks were limited in height and stacked, which is also a possible performance improvement idea i have had, but I don't know if it has been suggested before.
3. The Void would have to be remapped to below the Nether, for obvious reasons.
4. The portals would have to be completely recoded, and this might cause compatibility issues with other mods or the game code.
Finally, I would like to suggest possible several additional improvements that could be implemented with this idea and work together with it. Any suggestions for this list MUST be related directly to this mod and not the Nether in general. e.g., I don't want people spamming the thread with "Let mobs go through portals so I can make an army of pigmen like the Wizard Burgmund!
1. The bedrock under the Mainland could be replaced with "Adminiglass" or a similar material, which is a name class edit of bedrock, and has exactly the same properties, but has a transparent texture so one could see the Nether underneath.
2. If a tunnel was made from the surface to Adminiglass, the sunlight would reach through and kill all Nether mobs, like a "light of god" effect, or the turning to stone of trolls in sunlight (lol The Hobbit). This light could also transform Netherrack into another material... stone or possibly a new one, as it was purified.
Lastly (and I know I already said finally, but this one's only for a few people), a note on modding/implementation.
This would hopefully be implemented by Notch, but I don't think he would like the loss of the 1/8 Nether scale. If you are reading this, Notch, please PM me with your comments.
However, that occurring is doubtful, so I will plan to try and release this as a plugin for Bukkit and a client mod.
One problem... I don't know how to mod.
I know Java OK, and could pick up the rest of it fast (within a few weeks), but I have no idea how to mod minecraft, as all I see in the class files is random class names and no actual variables named in english, so I know that I'm doing something wrong.
If any modders want to help me, I will do my best to help, and will work on the mod, but until that happens, I don't know what I'll do besides promote this idea (maybe on GS), and make some concept art. For now, I'll be working on sigs, hopefully to go up later this weekend, and some early concept art/screenshots.
Any suggestions are welcome, and I will consider them fairly, with one caveat:
I do not want to make the game easier. Portals or similarly difficult to build structures will be the only way to enter the Nether. I am against all mods that make the game easier, with the exception of those designed for creative mode. (e.g. flymod is good for building awesome cities, but not escaping creepers.)
Editlist:
2/26, 9:45 AM PST: Added notes on 1/8 size.
TL;DR: The Nether should be below the main world, and I want to make a mod if I can get help from an experienced modder.
Sig made by llama66613
Follow me on twitter
He is stating that you can reach the nether from the overworld.
I APPROVE!
Since when has MC made sense? I alway thought the Nether to be the future...
Portals PWN boats and minecarts so bad in the transportation department it isn't funny. Spawn to mob trap to distant building project to farthest point I've travelled in a 32 block walk? Hello? I am NOT giving up the Nether as a 1/8th world.
That said... is there a way to work around this problem? Perhaps rare gaps in bedrock would allow naturally created portals to the Nether ceiling. Another possibility is "shrinking" the neither so blocks are codes as being 8x the normal size, but so is your camera so you don't notice the difference until you climb through the adminium layer and go "Hey! I just grew/shrunk!"
Finally, sunlight should NOT be EVER ABLE to enter the Nether under ANY CONDITIONS WHATSOEVER. With the possible exception of a sunstone, if implemented.
EDIT: Nether has 8x larger blocks, not 8 times smaller.
No, he isn't. Because of the layer of Adminiglass. The only way to reach the Nether from the surface, other than portals, would be a hole in the bedrock, or adminiglass.
Sig made by llama66613
Follow me on twitter
Yes, the only purpose of the adminiglass would be to show the nether visually and possibly strategically, and to possible allow one to shine a "Ray of God" Down. Obviously this could be exploited in custom maps or custom servers, but I believe that making it possible to "go down" would make vanilla, mod-free minecraft too easy, which is a trend i see a lot with mods like IndustrialCraft. These mods, while they do introduce new ideas, often tend to make the game too easy.
While I understand that the 1/8 block movement would be a painful loss, I believe that a way around it could be found. For instance, some kind of teleportation could be implemented, as I think that when one is able to build portals, it does not make the game easier to teleport, as long as the resources to build the teleport are hard enough to find. Perhaps portals would transport you to a spot in the Nether a set number of blocks away in the direction they are built? This system would allow you to build a similar transportation method.
P.S. Unrelated, but I just had the idea that you could put a nether inside a nether to make even faster travel. BWAAAAAAAM.....
INCEPTCRAFT