… Perhaps it's a lichen tree… which is a colonial organism and grows well in volitile places…
… the idea of hellish mold or lichen is interesting in it's own right.…
Yes, well done; now that's thinking outside the box. :smile.gif:
… from the perspective of someone who came from the Overworld; if it feels and acts like wood, they'll call it wood; otherwise they'll call it something else.
(sorry, been gone awhile thinking this was tossed aside by the debate) (quotes shortened for succinctness)
Thanks for taking notice, in the midst of all that. I think it fits better than wood in the flaming Nether. Mold would be in hell, maybe. Lichen grows on old rocks and is at least incredibly difficult to make the little flakes into planks , eliminating that. It could look like anything and would not form leaves, as gloomwood before.
Gloomlichen doesn't have the same "ring" to it, though.
I don't know if it was specifically stated, but Netherafts should probably be immune to Midas Tears, since the iron of the minecart wouldn't actually be touching the tears.
Actually I was referring to not getting any minecarts at all after breaking them. To a minecart addict such as my self this would make the nether very avoidable. I assume it's part of the "Nethers environment is hell on minerals (pun not intended)" but I would think that something like a minecart would be immune to such a thing. And breaking as soon as you get out? OUCH!
Quote from GreyAcumen »
Like TNT, Multiplayer servers should have ways of limiting what blocks players have access to. (if servers don't have a way of direcly limiting player's access to those blocks, then they should) Also, I believe it is mentioned that, like lava, midas tears wouldn't flow as far in the overworld as in the Nether, and it still would require that the griefer be actively near to the player being griefed, so easily reportable.
True but having all your on hand items turned to gold is still very annoying, and destroying any block in their path makes it that much harder to control. If I had to actually throw my items into the midas tears or holding them out that would be diffrent.
Quote from GreyAcumen »
yeah, but if you can MAKE more of those nether blocks by letting the overworld blocks be corrupted in the nether, is it really an issue?
Also, not much careful planning needed, don't let Netherrack touch Mossy cobblestone, don't let grass touch Soul Sand.
Go the the overworlds surface and place a block any were but a grass block. It's a little hard. And I tend to use Mossy cobble stone to line my netherrack fireplaces but honestly I could use something else.
Why not propose Rave Gel for torches: Because a colored torch is just a coloured torch, asssuming it even pigmentizes the flame properly, and would shed the same light range etc. of a torch but in a different colour. Not a ghostly-pale blue flame similar to a will o' wisp, which is a very low-heat flame in real life, made by swamp gases, that emits a very soft light that is visible (the light itself) but doesn't illuminate Sorta fitting to the gloom...thingy)
Gloomwood, et al: It's not wood. Please. Stop calling it that. x_x Even if it was more of a woody vine that grows in twisted clumps, it's possible to "plank" it. I've already linked a number of images using both stone and wood where all it takes is fitting the pieces together properly. If you're really THAT against it making a plank-type block- Make it into a three-wide "fence" piece that basically consists of sticking three pieces together into one block. Something that isn't just "single stick" or "log". Aesthetics. Give them to us.
Shadow Glass: It's the light/darkness cycle determining the state I dislike. I don't care if it breaks into a block that you can recover. Maybe only apply the day/night cycle there- if it's night/dark, the shadow disappates into darkness. If it's day/light enough, it drops a block of shadow glass. *shrug* Maybe even make it determine which mode it's in by Redstone or something. If it turns to shadow in the dark though, it becomes effectively useless, since it'd never stop a mob from passing through or break the line of sight/effect.
Nether Conditions: While it's true that rain can theoretically fall on an active volcano, practically it's impossible. The ash and soot belched from a volcano ensures that it is all but impossible for any form of precipitate to form in the area affected- several dozens of kilometers in diameter, sometimes, not to mention that that same cloud blocks sunlight. These plants, especially the succulents (cacti are succulents, btw) are simply adapted to living in the arid conditions of the volcanic slopes. There are plants that live in deserts that never recieve water through precipitate, in fact; They simply are that adept at living off of other sources. Heck, make it into something that's... carnivorous. Heh... That'd be interesting. it grows off blood. Ones on the ceiiling grow there to feed on those spider things as they skitter about, etc. etc. etc. *ponders*
Planks Stuff: Many plants don't need sunlight to grow, either adapted partially (Semiparasitics mostly rely on a host, rather than translating light to energy through photosynthesis; insectivorous plants also fall into this catagory as they can survive with very little light provided they get a steady supply of insects.) or completely to not need sunlight (I'm referring to holoparasitics and saprophytes, here; There's also at least one insectivorous plant that now relies exclusively on insects to survive, but I can't for the life of me remember the name). And again, if you're THAT stuck on no planks, just log > shards, and you're going to use that as an excuse- get rid of the log entirely.
Gloomwood Fuel: Whether it absorbs heat or light, you still haven't explained what it radiates. Again, something can't be a total heat AND light sink. It must do one or the other. To give a simplified example, a black t-shirt and a white t-shirt. The white one reflects light, and thus doesn't absorb much light to transfer to heat, and thus it doesn't radiate the heat as well as a black t-shirt. While a black t-shirt absorbs the light very well and, through the principle of conservation of energy, converts it to heat and radiates it, which is why black clothes make the light sources that give heat feel hotter.
Nether Tools: Yeah, "proc" is progspeak for procedure, or something that happens on a circumstantial basis; A very common case being percentile chances for something to occur. While your ideas about giving them chance effects to occur do bring something new to the game, I'm still not at all convinced that they're something that actually brings something needed to the table.
Salamander's Tongue: Three seconds is maybe fast enough when a) you're expecting the attack, and :cool.gif: you're at maximum range. Even then, hit it with anything that isn't either a diamond-quality tool (and who really brings diamond tools INTO the Nether, unless they're walking/carting down a safe path?) and you waste an entire second at the least while it flashes with damage immunity. No. This ain't something I'm going to back down on. Either slow it down, or make it much easier to break.
Mida's Tears: Fail. If you didn't notice, almost the entire thing was sarcasm, since I capped the entire thing with "Or, we can just continue following the trope of Convection Schmonvection that the entire rest of the game follows. yeah, lets do that."
The low point in the earth reference was for the purpose of -lava even existing- since near the surface, regardless of the planetary body unless special circumstances such as being far too close to a celestial body exist, it cools very quickly. Wherever the Nether is, it's deep underground, there is not a large amount of pressure but it is deep enough for lava/magma lakes, and the magma's chemistry is either not the same as that found on the overworld, (with Felsic lava being the one found on the overworld and mafic magma being found in the Nether) or, if it functions when brought ot the Overworld from the Nether (which is more likely since after all as you said Notch said, the Nether has no physical correlation with the Overworld), whatever planetary body it exists on does not have the same size/density ratio as the Overworld's planet, causing a drop in lithostatic pressure, and thus a drop in the solidus. (Lithostatic pressure is why even with all the heat that is in the Mantle of our planet that it still remains solid; the pressure of the 75-some odd kilometers of lithosphere and its own weight pushing down towards the nickel-iron core actually prevents most of it from flowing fluidly, even though it maintains a temperature of around 500 to 900*C).
Creatures: No. It must be survivable sans cheese in Single Player, no matter what. The game is, first and foremost, SSP. SMP is a bonus. I'm sure should it be implimented, Notch will ensure balance. As is, unbalanced.
With trolls, again, all you have to do is dig down a square, place a block above you, and you're protected enough to dig down two and repeat protecting your head. If they can pull a block and throw it faster than a skeleton, unbalanced. Hell, if they can throw faster than twice a skeleton's speed, i'd say that's unbalanced. They're meant to be big powerhouses. Keep it balanced. if they move fast and hit hard, they hit slow. Otherwise they become the thing that everyone complains about and wants modded out. Again though, regardless of what we work out here, if it gets implimented I'm sure Notch will make sure it's balanced.
And, back to Brands again: Again with the procs. Bleh. it's still setting you on fire. It's still dealing a half heart a second for 15 seconds. with the only proposed solution being a CHANCE effect. No.
I'm all for Cool Hades Slime (not Creeper) though, as a completely separate mod.
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<Pluecherry777>: I still think its funny that in 5 months, a group of modders made a mod thats actually better than a game thats been around for 2 years...
As for the idea, I think it's basically covered by the Hell Bulbs. Not completely, but basically.
Would it be another type of corruption? Would it be mine-able? What would it's uses be if it were?
Give it a little more thought. It's not bad, but not quite good yet.
@Green
While I'm not a Minecart maniac I do greatly enjoy digging tunnels for them in the lowest 16 layers (ie. Lava central).
And while I can get that you wouldn't want your Iron Minecarts to turn into 5 Gold ingots, Netherbrush was included specifically for the reason of anti-fluid griefing.
You'll be mining those tunnels, and if you don't simply overwrite the Tear Sources (ie. placing a solid block where they are) you can always place a line of Netherbrush next to your track or the sources.
And that's assuming you don't just pick it up yourself to make some awesome golden waterfalls for your castle.
@Gloomdust
You have my attention.
It's not quite good enough but the pure concept is out there enough to warrant my interest.
If anything the dust should lessen the light of it's block by 1 level.
But I don't think the engine can actually handle "remembering" that gloomdust was placed where a different block currently is, so "blocks can be directly placed atop it" doesn't quite work.
The rest of the ideas, while neat uses, were usually overpowered. especially "use one gloomwood dust on a Lava Source to create an obsidian". To be quick about that one in particular:
1 Gloomwood block (placed above lava) = 1 block of obsidian replacing the lava, loss of Gloomwood block.
Now we go for the dust method.
1 GW block = 3 Shards = 3~9 Dust = 3~9 possible obsidian.
It obsoletes the previous method.
It's a cruddy offensive as I'm tired, but I think you can see the point.
Keep working on it.
@Magmen villages
Maybe when Pigmen villages are actually introduced I'll back a Magmen village.
And Grey, I had actually forgotten that rule. Buuut it was basically my reasoning for how I was gonna respond.
@the massive list you guys have been talking about
It's a little too much for me to catch up on, so I'm going to leave it all up to Grey to sort out what those Wall of Texts birthed.
And yes, we need a sig image. I'm just hoping someone who's better at art than I will get us one.
I really need a list of things I need to modify in the OP...
*Side note
Since Mobs seem to have been brought up in the previous post (again I just skimmed) Gonna let everyone know.
These mobs were built under the assumption you were coming in fully armed. IE Diamond Weapons (a few) and, atleast two suits of, Iron armor.
If you walk into the New Nether less prepared than that... well you're going to get roughly the same result everyone gets when walking into the current Nether unprepared:
Death, or a frantic run back to the portal.
Look, could you please drop the whole plank issue? There's no reason to argue for it anymore. The topic is moot. Lets please move on.
@Sabata2: I see what you mean. In that case, yeah. It wouldn't work on Lava source blocks. I'm not a programmer myself, so I'm not sure what the details of having a block on top of gloomwood is, but seeing as how you're job is balancing games, I suppose I'll have to take your word for it.
As for Shadow ice (Or Mal Ice if you want to call it that. Seems a bit punny to me =3.); I proposed two ways for it to work: Either in enough light, it would "melt into shadows," basically becoming unsubstantial in enough light and substantial when it was back in darkness. The other way it would work is the opposite effect, that when there was enough darkness, "it would merge with the shadows" and become insubstantial, while in the light it would be substantial, owing to the fact that grimwood feeds of light.
And finally, for the Cool Hades Creeper: Only if he's cherry flavor. =3
hi I do not like that you used demon bones it kind of offends me could you please use something like big bones or something, otherwise it is a great suggestion
The Gloomdust is cool, I guess. I think I actually proposed something similar in the Nether Update thread a while ago as a use for Sapropype. The Mal Ice... hn. I guess I like the concept, but I feel like any sort of 'glass' thing would be made simply by smelting Soul Sand. I get that you're using it as some sorta ice thing, hence the Gloomwood dust in the recipe (and it's name), but... I dunno. Yeah. Not much of an argument, I know, but yeah.
Look, could you please drop the whole plank issue? There's no reason to argue for it anymore. The topic is moot. Lets please move on.
@Sabata2: I see what you mean. In that case, yeah. It wouldn't work on Lava source blocks. I'm not a programmer myself, so I'm not sure what the details of having a block on top of gloomwood is, but seeing as how you're job is balancing games, I suppose I'll have to take your word for it.
As for Shadow ice (Or Mal Ice if you want to call it that. Seems a bit punny to me =3.); I proposed two ways for it to work: Either in enough light, it would "melt into shadows," basically becoming unsubstantial in enough light and substantial when it was back in darkness. The other way it would work is the opposite effect, that when there was enough darkness, "it would merge with the shadows" and become insubstantial, while in the light it would be substantial, owing to the fact that grimwood feeds of light.
And finally, for the Cool Hades Creeper: Only if he's cherry flavor. =3
If you did that with Shadeglass it would be pretty useless. I would rather have it controlled by redstone
so you can make working mechanisms out of it that can be triggered instead of some random chance of light.
...and, uh, what's the whole ~snip~ thing?
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Quote from Amariithynar »
Aesthetics. Give them to us.
Quote from GreyAcumen »
Quote from lxxwj »
I think Grey just hates putting new things into the game unless they can be completely and fully justified for at least 3 uses, not including looking cool.
Instead of making a whole new item, I'd use regular bones instead of demon bones. The demons could drop these bones, easily.
Yes, I agree. Or maybe the whole suggestion shouldn't be implemented?
I think Grey explained earlier that regular bones would be too easy to get to make that good of a tool.
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Quote from Amariithynar »
Aesthetics. Give them to us.
Quote from GreyAcumen »
Quote from lxxwj »
I think Grey just hates putting new things into the game unless they can be completely and fully justified for at least 3 uses, not including looking cool.
As for the idea, I think it's basically covered by the Hell Bulbs. Not completely, but basically.
Would it be another type of corruption? Would it be mine-able? What would it's uses be if it were?
Give it a little more thought. It's not bad, but not quite good yet.
The idea was to replace the current wood idea to end that debate, not to start a new one. It would be the same wood as before, but made more hellish or different in concept than a tree that can't be made into planks, does not make leaves &c. It would still follow the shard patterns and all that was said begfore, but now it has reasons to do so. If anyone hates the idea of it being lichen as opposed to wood, comment, because I feel it fits better here than wood.
Instead of making a whole new item, I'd use regular bones instead of demon bones. The demons could drop these bones, easily.
I explained earlier that for the Mithos surrounding our suggested Nether, Overworld bones just don't fit.
I think it was somewhere in like page 2~4.
And it was I who made the argument, not Grey. Grey was on the side of using regular bones.
Here's the explanation for why a new Bone instead of Skele bones:
Quote from sabata2 »
Quote from GreyAcumen »
-Demon bones. Why not just bones? anyway, this idea is related to new tools, I don't like the whole thing.
I actually suggested the same thing.
I was insistent on not using regular bones, because of the implications that "An Overworld item now has an incredibly high amount of utility in the Nether."
If the Nether was to have Bone tier tools the bone couldn't come from the "weak skeletons" that we find in the Overworld.
Now, the bones of a massive troll? Those would be strong enough. Not to mention, they'd have been created and grown inside the Nether atmosphere so that they'd be particularly resistant to the corrosive portions, whereas no other Overworld item does.
Implying that Overworld Bones can survive the Nether is, in my eyes, trying too heavily to tie "Oooh, deathly scary" to the Nether instead of actually having it be a place where you can never relax.
The ability to Craft them only came about because tying them ONLY to the Troll made them too hard to get. Initially we wanted to smelt bonemeal back together to get a Demon Bone, but there's no easy code modification that will check the amount of items in the Input of the Furnace. Which would mean 1 bone becomes 3 demon bones, which completely breaks the balance of them.
@the ~snip~ comment
It's just to basically say "Yes I'm commenting to YOU about a really long post you made. I'm cutting it out to save space, and likely am going to summarize what you said"
It's just to save space.
@Thack
Ah, I thought the Litchen was an entirely separate suggestion. If you're just suggesting a different Mithos behind Gloomwood then sure. I don't really care.
@DiamondKnight
Demon Bone is offensive?
Would you rather I call it Akuma Bone?
Lastly, lol at Hwd basically trolling this thread.
-Demon bones. Why not just bones? anyway, this idea is related to new tools, I don't like the whole thing.
I actually suggested the same thing.
I was insistent on not using regular bones, because of the implications that "An Overworld item now has an incredibly high amount of utility in the Nether."
If the Nether was to have Bone tier tools the bone couldn't come from the "weak skeletons" that we find in the Overworld.
Now, the bones of a massive troll? Those would be strong enough. Not to mention, they'd have been created and grown inside the Nether atmosphere so that they'd be particularly resistant to the corrosive portions, whereas no other Overworld item does.
Implying that Overworld Bones can survive the Nether is, in my eyes, trying too heavily to tie "Oooh, deathly scary" to the Nether instead of actually having it be a place where you can never relax.
The ability to Craft them only came about because tying them ONLY to the Troll made them too hard to get. Initially we wanted to smelt bonemeal back together to get a Demon Bone, but there's no easy code modification that will check the amount of items in the Input of the Furnace. Which would mean 1 bone becomes 3 demon bones, which completely breaks the balance of them.
I think Grey just hates putting new things into the game unless they can be completely and fully justified
for at least 3 uses, not including looking cool. :tongue.gif:
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Quote from Amariithynar »
Aesthetics. Give them to us.
Quote from GreyAcumen »
Quote from lxxwj »
I think Grey just hates putting new things into the game unless they can be completely and fully justified for at least 3 uses, not including looking cool.
I think Grey just hates putting new things into the game unless they can be completely and fully justified for at least 3 uses, not including looking cool. :tongue.gif:
If I had room, I'd sig it for how true that is.
Quote from GreenPug »
Go the the overworlds surface and place a block any were but a grass block. It's a little hard. And I tend to use Mossy cobble stone to line my netherrack fireplaces but honestly I could use something else.
D'oh! I forgot to point out that Netherrack that is actively burning shouldn't be able to be "corrupted" same for tilled Soul sand, especially if it has a gloomshard placed on it. I'll have to get sabata to add that.
Quote from Amariithynar »
Why not propose Rave Gel for torches: Because a colored torch is just a coloured torch, asssuming it even pigmentizes the flame properly, and would shed the same light range etc. of a torch but in a different colour. Not a ghostly-pale blue flame similar to a will o' wisp, which is a very low-heat flame in real life, made by swamp gases, that emits a very soft light that is visible (the light itself) but doesn't illuminate Sorta fitting to the gloom...thingy)
Sorry, not what Gloomwood does.
Aesthetics. Give them to us.
Honestly, if it's that important to you, you do it. Oh, and "gloomwood"
(no, seriously, do some mockups yourself and if it's something I feel fits the feel that we're going for, then yeah, we'll update stuff and credit you.
Shadow Glass: It's the light/darkness cycle determining the state I dislike. I don't care if it breaks into a block that you can recover. Maybe only apply the day/night cycle there- if it's night/dark, the shadow disappates into darkness. If it's day/light enough, it drops a block of shadow glass. *shrug* Maybe even make it determine which mode it's in by Redstone or something. If it turns to shadow in the dark though, it becomes effectively useless, since it'd never stop a mob from passing through or break the line of sight/effect.
I was really only considering Mal ice as a type of dry ice that melts directly into air. I wasn't considering a light/darkness cycle as anything more than the usual way ice uses light levels to determine whether it will melt or not.
And again, if you're THAT stuck on no planks, just log > shards, and you're going to use that as an excuse- get rid of the log entirely.
Nah, Log stays so you can build your own trees, and so you can still build structures with it if you want.
Gloomwood Fuel: Whether it absorbs heat or light, you still haven't explained what it radiates.
It doesn't need to radiate anything. I've already explained how Minecraft has numerous examples already breaking basic energy returns ratios from portal, being able to carry lava by hand, and I think something else, but it's in the last post I made addressing your issues.
Nether Tools: Yeah, "proc" is progspeak for procedure, or something that happens on a circumstantial basis; A very common case being percentile chances for something to occur. While your ideas about giving them chance effects to occur do bring something new to the game, I'm still not at all convinced that they're something that actually brings something needed to the table.
If they were straight 100% then they'd be overpowered.
Salamander's Tongue: Three seconds is maybe fast enough when a) you're expecting the attack, and :cool.gif: you're at maximum range. Even then, hit it with anything that isn't either a diamond-quality tool (and who really brings diamond tools INTO the Nether, unless they're walking/carting down a safe path?) and you waste an entire second at the least while it flashes with damage immunity. No. This ain't something I'm going to back down on. Either slow it down, or make it much easier to break.
Well, I'm not backing down either
Quote from opening post »
the Salamander's hold can be broken by doing 2.5 damage to its tongue,
Mida's Tears: Fail. If you didn't notice, almost the entire thing was sarcasm, since I capped the entire thing with "Or, we can just continue following the trope of Convection Schmonvection that the entire rest of the game follows. yeah, lets do that."
Yeah, I pretty much stopped reading that once I hit the first obviously wrong point. I didn't bother checking for sarcasm since it seemed right in line with your whole "Gloomwood trees HAVE to radiate energy because Minecraft is strictly bound by scientific rules(even though it isn't)" reasoning.
{snip - More science-y babble that, while valid in the real world, holds absolutely no sway over Minecraft}
Creatures: No. It must be survivable sans cheese in Single Player, no matter what. The game is, first and foremost, SSP. SMP is a bonus. I'm sure should it be implimented, Notch will ensure balance. As is, unbalanced.
By "someone else" I was referring to the Zombie pigmen, which are still present in SSP.
With trolls, again, all you have to do is dig down a square, place a block above you, and you're protected enough to dig down two and repeat protecting your head.
I suppose you can survive it by digging down, but it'll still be able to recover while you sit on your thumbs.
If they can pull a block and throw it faster than a skeleton, unbalanced. Hell, if they can throw faster than twice a skeleton's speed, i'd say that's unbalanced. They're meant to be big powerhouses. Keep it balanced. if they move fast and hit hard, they hit slow. Otherwise they become the thing that everyone complains about and wants modded out. Again though, regardless of what we work out here, if it gets implimented I'm sure Notch will make sure it's balanced.
I was pretty much expecting their pull&chuck attack to occur at about the same rate as a skeleton firing its bow, and to travel about as fast as an arrow being fired, but unlike it's melee attack, it does a straight lower amount of damage, while it's melee attack is much more powerful.
And, back to Brands again: Again with the procs. Bleh. it's still setting you on fire. It's still dealing a half heart a second for 15 seconds. with the only proposed solution being a CHANCE effect. No.
that damage is distributed across armor as well. Just a basic full iron armor will cut the damage you take to little more than 2 hearts (and will also cut the physical damage the brand deals) Is it really unreasonable to expect people to protect themselves properly while in a completely alien and hostile environment?
I'm all for Cool Hades Slime (not Creeper) though, as a completely separate mod.
Nah, creeper face is important, as well as the fact that it has the ability to absolutely destroy the terrain, as it gets to you.
Quote from DiamondKnight »
hi I do not like that you used demon bones it kind of offends me could you please use something like big bones or something, otherwise it is a great suggestion
Demon is shorthand for "Dimension Man" D-man = demon, since Trolls are from a different dimension (the nether) that's how they are referred.
This isn't really the explanation, but it should help you get over your superficial issues with the name.
Quote from Thack »
The idea was to replace the current wood idea to end that debate, not to start a new one. It would be the same wood as before, but made more hellish or different in concept than a tree that can't be made into planks, does not make leaves &c. It would still follow the shard patterns and all that was said begfore, but now it has reasons to do so. If anyone hates the idea of it being lichen as opposed to wood, comment, because I feel it fits better here than wood.
If the Lichen is hard enoguh to need an iron axe, I don't think it'll really be much different than wood anyway. Besides, I like it as Gloomwood. Someone else already pointed out that that names are often given to things purely on how they look and have nothing to do with it's actual composition. Since it grows in pretty much the same patterns as trees (though also upside down trees) and the shadows it generates looks like leaves, the name still works no matter what conclusion people want to believe about what material it actually is.
If the Lichen is hard enoguh to need an iron axe, I don't think it'll really be much different than wood anyway. Besides, I like it as Gloomwood. Someone else already pointed out that that names are often given to things purely on how they look and have nothing to do with it's actual composition. Since it grows in pretty much the same patterns as trees (though also upside down trees) and the shadows it generates looks like leaves, the name still works no matter what conclusion people want to believe about what material it actually is.
Hooray! Somebody did read my post!
On-Topic: Overall, I love everything suggested. However, I am most fixated on the capability of Gloomwood Shards to be "light switches."
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Quote from Travesty »
Quote from Paddy352 »
Are you always so pessimistic?
Yes, yes I am. A pessimist is always either right, or pleasantly surprised.
Quote from ChargerIIC »
Egads..this is World of Warcraft meets Battlefield 1942 in a dark alley with way too much to drink and no discarded mattress nearby.
You're a bit late, arguing about whether this is a rip off or not was all in the first 3 or so pages.
So could you please explain why this is worse than a suggestion that has 3 or 4 different tiers
of items that have no application? I suggest you read through the thread before posting. Suggestion
threads justify themselves eventually (at least Grey's suggestion threads do). At first I was like
you, completely mad about how this thread had dared to steal Scarecrowman's ideas. But then, as
Grey explained, I decided that this version makes more sense if you read the text. The graphics might be
worse, but the ideas are incredibly logical.
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Quote from Amariithynar »
Aesthetics. Give them to us.
Quote from GreyAcumen »
Quote from lxxwj »
I think Grey just hates putting new things into the game unless they can be completely and fully justified for at least 3 uses, not including looking cool.
(sorry, been gone awhile thinking this was tossed aside by the debate) (quotes shortened for succinctness)
Thanks for taking notice, in the midst of all that. I think it fits better than wood in the flaming Nether. Mold would be in hell, maybe. Lichen grows on old rocks and is at least incredibly difficult to make the little flakes into planks , eliminating that. It could look like anything and would not form leaves, as gloomwood before.
Gloomlichen doesn't have the same "ring" to it, though.
Actually I was referring to not getting any minecarts at all after breaking them. To a minecart addict such as my self this would make the nether very avoidable. I assume it's part of the "Nethers environment is hell on minerals (pun not intended)" but I would think that something like a minecart would be immune to such a thing. And breaking as soon as you get out? OUCH!
True but having all your on hand items turned to gold is still very annoying, and destroying any block in their path makes it that much harder to control. If I had to actually throw my items into the midas tears or holding them out that would be diffrent.
Go the the overworlds surface and place a block any were but a grass block. It's a little hard. And I tend to use Mossy cobble stone to line my netherrack fireplaces but honestly I could use something else.
Gloomwood, et al: It's not wood. Please. Stop calling it that. x_x Even if it was more of a woody vine that grows in twisted clumps, it's possible to "plank" it. I've already linked a number of images using both stone and wood where all it takes is fitting the pieces together properly. If you're really THAT against it making a plank-type block- Make it into a three-wide "fence" piece that basically consists of sticking three pieces together into one block. Something that isn't just "single stick" or "log". Aesthetics. Give them to us.
Shadow Glass: It's the light/darkness cycle determining the state I dislike. I don't care if it breaks into a block that you can recover. Maybe only apply the day/night cycle there- if it's night/dark, the shadow disappates into darkness. If it's day/light enough, it drops a block of shadow glass. *shrug* Maybe even make it determine which mode it's in by Redstone or something. If it turns to shadow in the dark though, it becomes effectively useless, since it'd never stop a mob from passing through or break the line of sight/effect.
Nether Conditions: While it's true that rain can theoretically fall on an active volcano, practically it's impossible. The ash and soot belched from a volcano ensures that it is all but impossible for any form of precipitate to form in the area affected- several dozens of kilometers in diameter, sometimes, not to mention that that same cloud blocks sunlight. These plants, especially the succulents (cacti are succulents, btw) are simply adapted to living in the arid conditions of the volcanic slopes. There are plants that live in deserts that never recieve water through precipitate, in fact; They simply are that adept at living off of other sources. Heck, make it into something that's... carnivorous. Heh... That'd be interesting. it grows off blood. Ones on the ceiiling grow there to feed on those spider things as they skitter about, etc. etc. etc. *ponders*
Planks Stuff: Many plants don't need sunlight to grow, either adapted partially (Semiparasitics mostly rely on a host, rather than translating light to energy through photosynthesis; insectivorous plants also fall into this catagory as they can survive with very little light provided they get a steady supply of insects.) or completely to not need sunlight (I'm referring to holoparasitics and saprophytes, here; There's also at least one insectivorous plant that now relies exclusively on insects to survive, but I can't for the life of me remember the name). And again, if you're THAT stuck on no planks, just log > shards, and you're going to use that as an excuse- get rid of the log entirely.
Gloomwood Fuel: Whether it absorbs heat or light, you still haven't explained what it radiates. Again, something can't be a total heat AND light sink. It must do one or the other. To give a simplified example, a black t-shirt and a white t-shirt. The white one reflects light, and thus doesn't absorb much light to transfer to heat, and thus it doesn't radiate the heat as well as a black t-shirt. While a black t-shirt absorbs the light very well and, through the principle of conservation of energy, converts it to heat and radiates it, which is why black clothes make the light sources that give heat feel hotter.
Nether Tools: Yeah, "proc" is progspeak for procedure, or something that happens on a circumstantial basis; A very common case being percentile chances for something to occur. While your ideas about giving them chance effects to occur do bring something new to the game, I'm still not at all convinced that they're something that actually brings something needed to the table.
Salamander's Tongue: Three seconds is maybe fast enough when a) you're expecting the attack, and :cool.gif: you're at maximum range. Even then, hit it with anything that isn't either a diamond-quality tool (and who really brings diamond tools INTO the Nether, unless they're walking/carting down a safe path?) and you waste an entire second at the least while it flashes with damage immunity. No. This ain't something I'm going to back down on. Either slow it down, or make it much easier to break.
Mida's Tears: Fail. If you didn't notice, almost the entire thing was sarcasm, since I capped the entire thing with "Or, we can just continue following the trope of Convection Schmonvection that the entire rest of the game follows. yeah, lets do that."
The low point in the earth reference was for the purpose of -lava even existing- since near the surface, regardless of the planetary body unless special circumstances such as being far too close to a celestial body exist, it cools very quickly. Wherever the Nether is, it's deep underground, there is not a large amount of pressure but it is deep enough for lava/magma lakes, and the magma's chemistry is either not the same as that found on the overworld, (with Felsic lava being the one found on the overworld and mafic magma being found in the Nether) or, if it functions when brought ot the Overworld from the Nether (which is more likely since after all as you said Notch said, the Nether has no physical correlation with the Overworld), whatever planetary body it exists on does not have the same size/density ratio as the Overworld's planet, causing a drop in lithostatic pressure, and thus a drop in the solidus. (Lithostatic pressure is why even with all the heat that is in the Mantle of our planet that it still remains solid; the pressure of the 75-some odd kilometers of lithosphere and its own weight pushing down towards the nickel-iron core actually prevents most of it from flowing fluidly, even though it maintains a temperature of around 500 to 900*C).
Creatures: No. It must be survivable sans cheese in Single Player, no matter what. The game is, first and foremost, SSP. SMP is a bonus. I'm sure should it be implimented, Notch will ensure balance. As is, unbalanced.
With trolls, again, all you have to do is dig down a square, place a block above you, and you're protected enough to dig down two and repeat protecting your head. If they can pull a block and throw it faster than a skeleton, unbalanced. Hell, if they can throw faster than twice a skeleton's speed, i'd say that's unbalanced. They're meant to be big powerhouses. Keep it balanced. if they move fast and hit hard, they hit slow. Otherwise they become the thing that everyone complains about and wants modded out. Again though, regardless of what we work out here, if it gets implimented I'm sure Notch will make sure it's balanced.
And, back to Brands again: Again with the procs. Bleh. it's still setting you on fire. It's still dealing a half heart a second for 15 seconds. with the only proposed solution being a CHANCE effect. No.
I'm all for Cool Hades Slime (not Creeper) though, as a completely separate mod.
Yeah it was lost in the debate.
As for the idea, I think it's basically covered by the Hell Bulbs. Not completely, but basically.
Would it be another type of corruption? Would it be mine-able? What would it's uses be if it were?
Give it a little more thought. It's not bad, but not quite good yet.
@Green
While I'm not a Minecart maniac I do greatly enjoy digging tunnels for them in the lowest 16 layers (ie. Lava central).
And while I can get that you wouldn't want your Iron Minecarts to turn into 5 Gold ingots, Netherbrush was included specifically for the reason of anti-fluid griefing.
You'll be mining those tunnels, and if you don't simply overwrite the Tear Sources (ie. placing a solid block where they are) you can always place a line of Netherbrush next to your track or the sources.
And that's assuming you don't just pick it up yourself to make some awesome golden waterfalls for your castle.
@Gloomdust
You have my attention.
It's not quite good enough but the pure concept is out there enough to warrant my interest.
If anything the dust should lessen the light of it's block by 1 level.
But I don't think the engine can actually handle "remembering" that gloomdust was placed where a different block currently is, so "blocks can be directly placed atop it" doesn't quite work.
The rest of the ideas, while neat uses, were usually overpowered. especially "use one gloomwood dust on a Lava Source to create an obsidian". To be quick about that one in particular:
1 Gloomwood block (placed above lava) = 1 block of obsidian replacing the lava, loss of Gloomwood block.
Now we go for the dust method.
1 GW block = 3 Shards = 3~9 Dust = 3~9 possible obsidian.
It obsoletes the previous method.
It's a cruddy offensive as I'm tired, but I think you can see the point.
Keep working on it.
@Magmen villages
Maybe when Pigmen villages are actually introduced I'll back a Magmen village.
And Grey, I had actually forgotten that rule. Buuut it was basically my reasoning for how I was gonna respond.
@the massive list you guys have been talking about
It's a little too much for me to catch up on, so I'm going to leave it all up to Grey to sort out what those Wall of Texts birthed.
And yes, we need a sig image. I'm just hoping someone who's better at art than I will get us one.
I really need a list of things I need to modify in the OP...
*Side note
Since Mobs seem to have been brought up in the previous post (again I just skimmed) Gonna let everyone know.
These mobs were built under the assumption you were coming in fully armed. IE Diamond Weapons (a few) and, atleast two suits of, Iron armor.
If you walk into the New Nether less prepared than that... well you're going to get roughly the same result everyone gets when walking into the current Nether unprepared:
Death, or a frantic run back to the portal.
Oh, god, what have I done?
Look, could you please drop the whole plank issue? There's no reason to argue for it anymore. The topic is moot. Lets please move on.
@Sabata2: I see what you mean. In that case, yeah. It wouldn't work on Lava source blocks. I'm not a programmer myself, so I'm not sure what the details of having a block on top of gloomwood is, but seeing as how you're job is balancing games, I suppose I'll have to take your word for it.
As for Shadow ice (Or Mal Ice if you want to call it that. Seems a bit punny to me =3.); I proposed two ways for it to work: Either in enough light, it would "melt into shadows," basically becoming unsubstantial in enough light and substantial when it was back in darkness. The other way it would work is the opposite effect, that when there was enough darkness, "it would merge with the shadows" and become insubstantial, while in the light it would be substantial, owing to the fact that grimwood feeds of light.
And finally, for the Cool Hades Creeper: Only if he's cherry flavor. =3
The Gloomdust is cool, I guess. I think I actually proposed something similar in the Nether Update thread a while ago as a use for Sapropype. The Mal Ice... hn. I guess I like the concept, but I feel like any sort of 'glass' thing would be made simply by smelting Soul Sand. I get that you're using it as some sorta ice thing, hence the Gloomwood dust in the recipe (and it's name), but... I dunno. Yeah. Not much of an argument, I know, but yeah.
If you did that with Shadeglass it would be pretty useless. I would rather have it controlled by redstone
so you can make working mechanisms out of it that can be triggered instead of some random chance of light.
...and, uh, what's the whole ~snip~ thing?
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Curse PremiumYes, I agree. Or maybe the whole suggestion shouldn't be implemented?
I think Grey explained earlier that regular bones would be too easy to get to make that good of a tool.
The idea was to replace the current wood idea to end that debate, not to start a new one. It would be the same wood as before, but made more hellish or different in concept than a tree that can't be made into planks, does not make leaves &c. It would still follow the shard patterns and all that was said begfore, but now it has reasons to do so. If anyone hates the idea of it being lichen as opposed to wood, comment, because I feel it fits better here than wood.
I explained earlier that for the Mithos surrounding our suggested Nether, Overworld bones just don't fit.
I think it was somewhere in like page 2~4.
And it was I who made the argument, not Grey. Grey was on the side of using regular bones.
Here's the explanation for why a new Bone instead of Skele bones:
@the ~snip~ comment
It's just to basically say "Yes I'm commenting to YOU about a really long post you made. I'm cutting it out to save space, and likely am going to summarize what you said"
It's just to save space.
@Thack
Ah, I thought the Litchen was an entirely separate suggestion. If you're just suggesting a different Mithos behind Gloomwood then sure. I don't really care.
@DiamondKnight
Demon Bone is offensive?
Would you rather I call it Akuma Bone?
Lastly, lol at Hwd basically trolling this thread.
I think Grey just hates putting new things into the game unless they can be completely and fully justified
for at least 3 uses, not including looking cool. :tongue.gif:
D'oh! I forgot to point out that Netherrack that is actively burning shouldn't be able to be "corrupted" same for tilled Soul sand, especially if it has a gloomshard placed on it. I'll have to get sabata to add that.
Sorry, not what Gloomwood does.
Honestly, if it's that important to you, you do it. Oh, and "gloomwood"
(no, seriously, do some mockups yourself and if it's something I feel fits the feel that we're going for, then yeah, we'll update stuff and credit you.
I was really only considering Mal ice as a type of dry ice that melts directly into air. I wasn't considering a light/darkness cycle as anything more than the usual way ice uses light levels to determine whether it will melt or not.
Nah, Log stays so you can build your own trees, and so you can still build structures with it if you want.
It doesn't need to radiate anything. I've already explained how Minecraft has numerous examples already breaking basic energy returns ratios from portal, being able to carry lava by hand, and I think something else, but it's in the last post I made addressing your issues.
If they were straight 100% then they'd be overpowered.
Well, I'm not backing down either
Yeah, I pretty much stopped reading that once I hit the first obviously wrong point. I didn't bother checking for sarcasm since it seemed right in line with your whole "Gloomwood trees HAVE to radiate energy because Minecraft is strictly bound by scientific rules(even though it isn't)" reasoning.
By "someone else" I was referring to the Zombie pigmen, which are still present in SSP.
I suppose you can survive it by digging down, but it'll still be able to recover while you sit on your thumbs.
I was pretty much expecting their pull&chuck attack to occur at about the same rate as a skeleton firing its bow, and to travel about as fast as an arrow being fired, but unlike it's melee attack, it does a straight lower amount of damage, while it's melee attack is much more powerful.
that damage is distributed across armor as well. Just a basic full iron armor will cut the damage you take to little more than 2 hearts (and will also cut the physical damage the brand deals) Is it really unreasonable to expect people to protect themselves properly while in a completely alien and hostile environment?
Nah, creeper face is important, as well as the fact that it has the ability to absolutely destroy the terrain, as it gets to you.
Demon is shorthand for "Dimension Man" D-man = demon, since Trolls are from a different dimension (the nether) that's how they are referred.
This isn't really the explanation, but it should help you get over your superficial issues with the name.
If the Lichen is hard enoguh to need an iron axe, I don't think it'll really be much different than wood anyway. Besides, I like it as Gloomwood. Someone else already pointed out that that names are often given to things purely on how they look and have nothing to do with it's actual composition. Since it grows in pretty much the same patterns as trees (though also upside down trees) and the shadows it generates looks like leaves, the name still works no matter what conclusion people want to believe about what material it actually is.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
and the other set of items just dont make me say me gusta
honestly your MOBS make more sense
but their mobs are a little
wacky?
one more thing notch said he may ad the aether becuz the nether is a little boring right.
honestly i think this doesnt cut it
here is their topic for any one that cares
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=146410
EDIT:
one more thing
the mobs that i like are the
troll, salamander, and the spiked grem,
and out of their mobs i only like
Netherhounds, Lavamonsters, Charredbone Archers, Fireslimes, Hellshrews, Imps
combine these mobs in the nether AND IT WILL BE OF GODLY PROPORTIONS!!!!!!!!!!
K'naan
Hooray! Somebody did read my post!
On-Topic: Overall, I love everything suggested. However, I am most fixated on the capability of Gloomwood Shards to be "light switches."
You're a bit late, arguing about whether this is a rip off or not was all in the first 3 or so pages.
So could you please explain why this is worse than a suggestion that has 3 or 4 different tiers
of items that have no application? I suggest you read through the thread before posting. Suggestion
threads justify themselves eventually (at least Grey's suggestion threads do). At first I was like
you, completely mad about how this thread had dared to steal Scarecrowman's ideas. But then, as
Grey explained, I decided that this version makes more sense if you read the text. The graphics might be
worse, but the ideas are incredibly logical.