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Quote from Darkbirth »

Though,if you want to talk about ideas failing, you said that, if sapling were planted anywhere in the nether, they would turn into sticks. However, in you 2x2 grid topic, you stated that you can make a stick from 2 saplings. Notice some inconsistencies there?

Since 2 saplings craft into 2 sticks, I see no inconsistencies at all.

Okay, I have not fully explained myself on this one. My problem isn't just the planks anymore, but the fact that "Gloomwood" isn't wood at all. It's ice, or a rock that grows from one of it's own pieces.

No, it's a Wood, hence why you need an axe to mine it, but it doesn't have a grain that allows it to be fashioned into planks, the best you can get out of it is shards.

If you had called it ANYTHING besides gloomwood, I would have bought it. However, you instead take an idea of some else's and do something completely different then what the original intent was... I think. I'm not fully sure who made the first gloomwood or anything.

As you can see in the credits, Connour was the first person to propose a block that generated shadows, I AM the one responsible for turning that idea into Darkwood, to which I gave Zurich my grudging permission to use as the basis for Grimwood. The idea you see for Gloomwood, and every idea connected to it, is based on MY idea for darkwood, and not only has no connection to Zurick's idea, but pretty much specifically refutes Zurich's take on the idea.

On the same subject, think of a new player playing the game. They enter the nether, see the gloomwood tree and cut it down with and axe. When they go to craft it, they find gloom shard rather then planks. Needless to say, that would confuse them.

********.

Finally, don't patronize me with the whole "re-texture," thing. Sure, I could use logs for my decoration, but what if I want to make floors or ceilings? It wouldn't mesh together well. That, and it'll constantly produce darkness, which would cause problems for quite a few reasons.

Which is why I can't figure out why you're investign in plans to build with it anyway.

And with what you said about placing it on soul sand, does it extend further, or just on the log that's touching the sand?

2 blocks above the soul sand are disabled, enough to get a 4 height wall, and plenty to handle floor and ceilings.

Also, what if the sand gets turned into dirt because of the blight mechanic? Not to mention, soul sand isn't a very good decoration piece seeing as how it's kind of ugly.

That only happens if you're in the Nether, on the overworld grass blocks will convert soul sand to regular dirt. Just don't have grass blocks touching the soul sand and you're fine.

So, there you are. You can't simply justify gloomwood being gloomwood simply by saying "it grow and needs to be chopped down with an axe- wait a minute. If it's basically like dry ice, why would it need an axe to chop it down in the first place? That's another flaw I find in it. I'm sorry, Grey. You're a smart guy, but I just can't accept your idea for gloomwood.

I've justified it plenty of times over. I don't know if you'll be able to accept that, but I'm sure that it will be an isolated incident.

Quote from Darkbirth »

So, there you are. You can't simply justify gloomwood being gloomwood simply by saying "it grow and needs to be chopped down with an axe- wait a minute. If it's basically like dry ice, why would it need an axe to chop it down in the first place? That's another flaw I find in it.

Some trees cannot be made into planks. Eucalyptus is bad to build with, and palm trees are not even trees but woody stalks, mostly bare- akin to gloomwood. Living organisms are the only things that "grow," and I think animals/bacteria &c. can be safely ruled out. Not all plants have leaves either, and many do not have leaves part of the time. The most adept tool to cutting down a woody plant is a axe or saw, the former in Minecraft. These are very good justifications to make it a tree. (opinion)> treelike things should be in nether anyway. It would be cool.

Good ideas! Notch better pay close attention :wink.gif:

[code][quote=GreyAcumen][quote=Darkbirth]Okay, I have not fully explained myself on this one. My problem isn't just the planks anymore, but the fact that "Gloomwood" isn't wood at all. It's ice, or a rock that grows from one of it's own pieces.[/quote] No, it's a Wood, hence why you need an axe to mine it, but it doesn't have a grain that allows it to be fashioned into planks, the best you can get out of it is shards.[/quote] You know what, forget the planks. Forget at all that it was suggested as a building material. Lets instead look at the basic premise. Gloomwood is a tree, cold as ice, doesn't burn, doesn't have a grain, and somehow can grow from a piece of itself, rather then a seed. Tell me, have you ever heard of a tree that doesn't have a grain? How would the tree grow without a grain? Or how about a tree that grows from a 2 by 4? Say, what was the about bullshit? I think it perfectly fits in right here. This concept is downright nonsensical. You know what you said before about turning glowstone into wooden planks or making wool nonflammable(And no, I'm not suggesting this)? Well, you might as well if you think this concept is any less ludicrous. Yes, I know the nether is a twisted version, but there's twisted, and there's outright nonsensical. Lava flows like water? Well it is a liquid! Rocks catch fire? Well they are volatile! Soul sand slows you down? Well it is kind of like mud! Gloomwood has nothing to do with a tree other then growing? Do you see what I'm getting at? Look, all I'm saying is that it doesn't have to be a tree. It can be anything else BUT a tree. Having it a tree makes NO SENSE! In fact, didn't you say that they were like stalagmites or stalactites? Why not have them those? [quote=Thack]Some trees cannot be made into planks. Eucalyptus is bad to build with, and palm trees are not even trees but woody stalks, mostly bare- akin to gloomwood. Living organisms are the only things that "grow," and I think animals/bacteria &c. can be safely ruled out. Not all plants have leaves either, and many do not have leaves part of the time. The most adept tool to cutting down a woody plant is a axe or saw, the former in Minecraft. These are very good justifications to make it a tree. (opinion)> treelike things should be in nether anyway. It would be cool.[/quote] Thank you. You're actually trying to apply logic to the situation. While you make good points, I have to point something out. Palm trees are made of complex fibers that grow as on into a palm tree. The reason they do so it that this makes them very flexible. See, they're very tall trees, so the wind makes them move easily. Because of this, the tree needs to be flexible, or else it would break easily. Gloomtrees, on the other hand, grow into an environment where there's likely no wind, and is comprised of volatile rock and lava. It's a hostile environment. Therefore, the tree adapted to absorb the heat around it, producing a bitter cold. Okay. I'll buy that. Now, when you start telling me that it's basically a stalactite or something, then we go pass an acceptable boundary. Since it breaks off into "shards," it's more of a stone then anything else. You could argue that it's a petrified tree, but then how would it have been able to grow from a shard? Since it's petrified, that means it's preserved and thus can't grow. Even that argument isn't legit. Still, I do agree with you. I would like to see ACTUAL trees in the nether.[code][/code][/code]

PREVIEW EDUT: Thack, actually there is a large number of products made using palm tree planks- The wood, when planked, is actually called "porcupine wood". It's so called because the grain of the wood resembles the quills of a porcupine; There is also the Cocoa Palm wood which is simply referred to as "Coconut Lumber"; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coconut_timber for an example. There is actually laws in place in the Phillipines to prevent people from cutting down coconut trees to turn them into lumber because it gives a good return quickly, rather than the relatively slow harvesting of coconuts (70 year average commercial lifespan of a seed-bearing tree). There are plenty of resources online that will confirm this information. As for your claim that Eucalyptus is a bad wood to use: It's actually a very fast-growing wood, and thus is a sustainable resource. It's also a very good wood for use in flooring and similar projects. http://www.house-energy.com/Floors/Eucalyptus.htm  Yes, it does have its downsides, but they are mostly hazards associated with the oils, or with careless planting (they absorb lots of water, so are used to turn marshy areas to farmable plantations, and the oil they contain is flammable, so in large unmaintained areas they can ignite easily) as shown here http://www.pulpapernews.com/2009/04/the-pros-and-cons-of-eucalyptus . <Insert picture of "The More You Know!" rainbow/hands>


Re: Bloodstone = Rubies;

I'm referring to the graphic. It's a recolor of the Diamond Gem. One would infer that all precious gemstones (if added) would use the same graphic and simply swap palettes, thus why I said they're Rubies. Come up with your own graphic, or make them not just a solid-red. Maybe flecked with brown-red spots, like rust/drying blood? Otherwise they're just Ruby-lookalikes under a different name. Lame.


Re: The whole Gloomwood issue;

Get over yourself, Grey. Your idea IS abstract. Either it looks like a tree, it acts like a tree, and it IS a tree, or it isn't a tree in any way. Choose one. There are plenty of stones that grow (though very slowly) without being wood-related, such as calcite deposits (stalactites/stalagmites being a major example) and quite a few gemstones (google it, or just read something like http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/gemstones/sp14-95/synthetic.html ...Which gives me an idea for the ability to use a bucket of lava in the middle of a furnace crafting using obsidian to make a pressure cooker and use lava as the heat source to "slow-cook" gemstones... but that's an idea for another thread). Just because you want it to be almost-a-tree but not doesn't mean it should. Darkbirth gave a very good idea to revamp it [i]while following your idea of it being twisted[/i] so that it actually [u]makes sense[/u]. I give you as example for the fact that you do NOT need grain for planking (where the hell did you come up with that silly idea anyways?) these are STONE planks ( http://www.buffalostone.com/installations/installation.html ). Or the dictionary definition of plank: 1a. A piece of lumber cut thicker than a board. 1b. Such pieces of lumber considered as a group; planking. Even brittle substances such as charcoal can be, with care, cut to planks (though for what use, I couldn't fathom, beyond large barbeque pits and the like).

Just because you want it to be unique and not be able to be made into planks doesn't mean that it shouldn't be able to be. As was said before, Minecraft is a game of possibilities. If you have the manual dexterity and finesse required to take spider's silk and weave it into a -bowstring-, then I'm sure you can cut up a sorta-tree into plank shapes.

tl;dr: Just because you say it shouldn't doesn't mean it shouldn't.


Re: Gloomwood burning with blue "Coldfire";

Yeah, I have to admit, it sounds weird. It'd be AWESOME looking though, and from what I understand Minecraft follows the Rule of Cool to an extent. As Darkbirth noted would not provide any actual light beyond the flame, in fact sucking it in from the surroundings- Perhaps that is the "flame"? The light being absorbed causing it to "burn" with a cold, lightless fire that sucks in the heat and, in doing so, is eating away the Gloomwood that is absorbing the heat/light; This would also give reasoning for why if used in a furnace it actually disintigrates into nothing while freezing whatever is inside; As it absorbs the heat, it "burns" with a cold flame that absorbs the heat. Perhaps even call those cold flames the remnants of the twisted souls trapped within the warped wood being released? There's an entirely new take to it- Simply put it's the souls trapped within that are "burning" as the wood absorbs the heat and light around it, making it quite effecting nightmare fuel (literally and figuratively) as it is the burning away of the soul that produces the chilly ambiance, and without the souls supporting the unnatural growth, it simply disintigrates to dust. Really, all this is just ideas for justification for being able to set up my own Magus' Lair will o' wisp magic circle in Minecraft. >_>


Re: Minecart vs. Mida's Tears;

In short, see tl;dr above for Gloomwood.

Otherwise; Mida's Tears sound like an interesting idea, but all they really seem to exist for is for the world to randomly grief the player. It's like playing Super Smash Bros. Brawl and then slipping. You don't think, "Wow, that was a neat effect!"; you swear and curse and damn the name of Sakurai for all eternity. There is no "being careful" with it if it's hidden a block below lava and you float over it, under your current setup. And without a means to harden lava, that means that there are simply infinite possible locations of just random griefing against the player(s). Yes, it makes it more dangerous, but not in a way that the entire rest of the game sets you up for- "If you are prepared enough, you can handle anything". It might as well be the slogan for the game. There needs to be a middle ground where preparedness overrules chance. Maybe those salamander skin-covered boats/carts that you were talking about might be unaffected by Mida's Tears, or something. Otherwise, it simply doesn't fit into the game.


Re: Salamander's Tongues;

If they have a range of 15 blocks, while existing in lava, their tongue better either have only one heart and, when hurt, break off (whether this could be a collectable item or not, would need balancing. Maybe it's what makes the lasso?) or reel you in VERY slowly. Otherwise you'd just get pulled into lava and set on fire to death ad nauseam. The example given makes it seem like it's little more than a glorified fishing rod effect (attachment causing damage animation, then sudden very fast flinging in the direction of the caster), and that's what this complaint is based off of. Even if it was very slow, however, it wouldn't be an appropriate approximation of similar attributes seen in real-world animals (such as the chameleon and frogs among others) and thus, would almost seem silly (especially since anything struggling around that's in the Nether would easily break the tongue even if it had decent HP). Best bet would be to have them be short-range (5 blocks = 5 meters, considering they are giant salamanders) and snap-quick. Then people would just avoid the edges of lava until they're sure it's safe- Which falls back to the "if you're prepared enough, you can handle anything" mantra.

tl;dr: Salamanders having tongues that lasso 15 blocks away doesn't really work. Short but very quick make them a threat if you are careless. Otherwise the sheer range plus the speed makes them completely overpowered and, while dangerous, not something that fits the theme of the game (see above mantra).


Re: Gloomwood/Netherraze/New Tools in General;

While interesting, Darkbirth, I have to say... Nice ideas, but we really don't need more tools in the game.

On the same note, Grey: I don't think there's any real need for the surplus of tools made from nether material either. At the same time, I think that if there's a material that emulates another that it should be able to make whatever it makes (such as netherrack basically emulating dirt/cobble). If anything, I'd agree with the use of tools made from nether having a 1x durability in Nether/2x durability in Overworld and Overworld tools being the reverse just to justify using them. Otherwise they should function as equivalent tools of the same grade without any fancy extra effects like that "chance to burn" thing for netherraze. Meh. Tools are tools are tools. They'll see more use unilaterally as tools just digging dirt, breaking stone, and hewing wood than fighting any number of mobs, sans the sword. Maybe focus on making the swords have special bonuses as per their material, but the general tools should be the same across the board- Different materials make them harvest different blocks faster, and have more durability. It may make it seem "plain", but they're just tools. Go ahead and continue to tout the idea, as I'm all for added variety/choice, but I really doubt that it'll be viewed as necessary by the majority of those who end up using the tools. The only real reason I'd use any material over the other is for look- A red pick-axe or sword looks cooler than a blue/teal or grey one.


Re: Ghosts, Trolls, Magmen and More;

Ghosts should move at 75-80% player speed so they can't just overlay you and ensure you die (as you can't then move faster than they can). Especially since you have to dodge obstacles, and if one caught you in Soul Sand even with the speed decrease it'd still ensure your death. regarding the weapons not being able to hurt it, follow standard D&D procedure: 50% miss chance if it isn't a Ghost Touch weapon or force effect (Which here I assume is Gold). Otherwise, not a bad idea. Not much else that I could add to that other than... Perhaps they don't actually attack the player? Perhaps they follow him/her around, waiting for an item to be dropped... Then steal it away? It could "eat" the item, so you'd see it sitting in the middle of the ghost's translucent belly, and while "eaten" it wouldn't fade away. The hard part would be getting it back. Potential use for gloomwood/soul sand in this case= Contact with either destroys the ghost, and any items consumed are brought to the surface. They'll normally not touch the material (One block avoidance range), but it could be used to create a "Ghost Trap" (no, not like Ghostbusters, just an area you make with the blocks to corral them together and slay them to get your items back...Or maybe an item you craft like the Ghostbusters, iunno). Maybe they can't phase through blocks when they've eaten an item, just to make it fair-but-still-challenging?


Trolls definitely need a reskinning and a renaming for use in the Nether. Hell, call them Nether Trolls/Demons and give them that black-with-silverish colouring that you were contemplating- And then put the original Trolls (the green ones) up on the Overworld. Let them be able to grab a block of any non-resource, so he can grab dirt, stone, cobble, logs, planks, topiary, etc even sand and gravel, though the former would just break into a pick-up-able resource, and gravel would only break into a gravel resource on impact. That would ensure that they'd still be a menace in both the overworld and underworld, without a) removing non-renewable resources, and :cool.gif: being able to destroy your buildings. It could even use the explosion resistance of the material it grabs to check whether or not it would break what it hits- and/or how much damage it does. Or just does a flat, say, 5 damage no matter what.

Perhaps also give it a behaviour of "throw high into air/into nearest deep hole/open lava pit" if it gets into melee range. That would ensure that they remain huge threats that the player would want to get rid of without ever getting into melee range; And it would make it so that the bow is actually seen as more of a necessity rather than a convenience, since no mob in the game currently is threatening enough to require a bow (though one could argue Ghasts, their low HP combined with a Fishing Rod do make them easy pickings... assuming you don't just ignore them and dodge the slowish-moving fireballs).

Nether Trolls/Demons are obviously the more dangerous version... Maybe the silver can be the hairy bits on the model, and they're actually metal spikes (like the spiked Grem) and the trolls' skin is flint-like; When it throws a block of netherrack or some other ignitable substance it ignites it? Could make it even more dangerous but still follow the mantra of "if you're prepared enough, you can handle anything" by being able to scoop handfuls of lava up and fling them at you. Very dangerous, something you definitely don't want to mess with in melee, but still something survivable if you deal with it appropriately. Overworld trolls wouldn't be as dangerous, obviously... Maybe as you mentioned briefly in one of your earlier posts if exposed to sunlight, they are turned to stone permanently... but if you defeat them with attacking, they simply turn to stone until the next night? It'd make them dangerous, but still handle-able (excuse if the talk about the Troll re; Overworld is taken as trying to prop another idea; I was simply trying to expand on the Troll concept, which I think the Overworld -should- have).


Magmen seem interesting by description, but I think until "nest" algorithms are introduced, that it should remain out of the game. (If you're curious what I mean, I mean "this is our territory. We're gonna be neutral to you until you enter it, then we'll go hostile" sort of behaviour. Territorial as a different, simpler explanation, but in a much smaller area. There'd be a few who wander around outside the nesting area, and then a few who sit exclusively in the nesting area. Perhaps even make it equivilent to a spawner, but it doesn't create more of them, just localizes a dungeon-like aspect, such as chests that they store stuff in, for example. Maybe even mark one who stays outside with a special graphic and make him act as a trader or some such, when NPCs are introduced, if ever.


Brands seem interesting, but the whole "I put myself on fire without damaging myself and then rush you ceaselessly until I burn you to death" is... just a bit too much, since you can't extinguish yourself normally (and your idea for a low percent of snowballs functioning is just... no). Maybe make it so they set themselves on fire... and then start melting as they try to kamikaze at you. Sort of like Creepers, except on fire with a timer that doesn't reset, no explosion (Or even an explosion on death if you want; I mean, their "blood" could be a volatile fluid for example), and leaving trails of flame following them.

/endlongpost

@Amariithynar
Thank you for clarifying this. I'd always heard that Eucalyptus was a poor wood to build with, and that it's more of a weed than anything else. We have some eucalyptus at our house, and they blow over pretty easily, and splinter as well. Never heard of coconut planks either, thanks for that. It seemed too porous and grassy to make into planks, but apparently not. As for flooring, you can use cork bark, but I wouldn't build with it like I'd build with, say, oak.
@Darkbirth
Yes, I see that. Maybe all the cold it absorbs makes it brittle, and it crystallizes, although that is quite unrealistic. Perhaps it's a lichen tree, which is a colonial organism and grows well in volitile places, and they can be living and grow, but still be mineral-like; if Lichen grew huge and solid like proposed, it would probably form cakey shards (from my experience with lichen anyway) Yes they usually are smaller, but, trees don't spontaneously grow in real life, either.

Quote from Amariithynar »

PREVIEW EDUT: {snip - stuff about trees}

All well and good, but does that mean that you can make good planks out of them with basic hand carpentry tools? Furthermore does it prove in any way that a tree CAN'T exist that has its grain malformed in such a way that it isn't suitable for making wood planks from?

Re: Bloodstone = Rubies;

I'm referring to the graphic. It's a recolor of the Diamond Gem. One would infer that all precious gemstones (if added) would use the same graphic and simply swap palettes, thus why I said they're Rubies. Come up with your own graphic, or make them not just a solid-red. Maybe flecked with brown-red spots, like rust/drying blood? Otherwise they're just Ruby-lookalikes under a different name. Lame.

A) Blood Gem, not stone. :cool.gif: Seeing as how even the DYES that notch added to the game have different graphics, I highly doubt that, if other gemstones DO get added to the game, that they will be merely a recoloring. I honestly don't feel like coming up with my own graphic for it. All I needed to do was convey that it's a red gem, and it can be crafted into tools.

Re: The whole Gloomwood issue;

Get over yourself, Grey. Your idea IS abstract. Either it looks like a tree, it acts like a tree, and it IS a tree, or it isn't a tree in any way. Choose one. There are plenty of stones that grow (though very slowly) without being wood-related, such as calcite deposits (stalactites/stalagmites being a major example) and quite a few gemstones (google it, or just read something like http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/ ... hetic.html ...Which gives me an idea for the ability to use a bucket of lava in the middle of a furnace crafting using obsidian to make a pressure cooker and use lava as the heat source to "slow-cook" gemstones... but that's an idea for another thread). Just because you want it to be almost-a-tree but not doesn't mean it should. Darkbirth gave a very good idea to revamp it while following your idea of it being twisted so that it actually makes sense. I give you as example for the fact that you do NOT need grain for planking (where the hell did you come up with that silly idea anyways?) these are STONE planks ( http://www.buffalostone.com/installatio ... ation.html ). Or the dictionary definition of plank: 1a. A piece of lumber cut thicker than a board. 1b. Such pieces of lumber considered as a group; planking. Even brittle substances such as charcoal can be, with care, cut to planks (though for what use, I couldn't fathom, beyond large barbeque pits and the like).

You just failed and failed hard here. Did you seriously quote me BUFFALO STONE? A professional company that undoubtedly uses some of the most high tech equipment available for doing that job?
Sure, you can MAKE planking from wood that is usually unsuitable for it through various high tech methods, and you might have a CHANCE of being able to accomplish that by hand, but that doesn't mean that you'll be able to GET that from a chunk of log that hasn't grown in a way that is conducive to that.

Just because you want it to be unique and not be able to be made into planks doesn't mean that it shouldn't be able to be. As was said before, Minecraft is a game of possibilities. If you have the manual dexterity and finesse required to take spider's silk and weave it into a -bowstring-, then I'm sure you can cut up a sorta-tree into plank shapes.

tl;dr: Just because you say it shouldn't doesn't mean it shouldn't.

Making planks from wood doesn't need dexterity, it needs wood that can be made into planks to begin with. You can cut wood apart in a plank shape, but if it already has breaks in the wood, then those breaks aren't just going to magically seal up when you cut it apart.

tl;dr: Just because you say it should, doesn't mean it should.

Re: Gloomwood burning with blue "Coldfire";

Still not sold on the idea.

Re: Minecart vs. Mida's Tears;

In short, see tl;dr above for Gloomwood.

Otherwise; Mida's Tears sound like an interesting idea, but all they really seem to exist for is for the world to randomly grief the player. It's like playing Super Smash Bros. Brawl and then slipping. You don't think, "Wow, that was a neat effect!"; you swear and curse and damn the name of Sakurai for all eternity. There is no "being careful" with it if it's hidden a block below lava and you float over it, under your current setup. And without a means to harden lava, that means that there are simply infinite possible locations of just random griefing against the player(s). Yes, it makes it more dangerous, but not in a way that the entire rest of the game sets you up for- "If you are prepared enough, you can handle anything". It might as well be the slogan for the game. There needs to be a middle ground where preparedness overrules chance. Maybe those salamander skin-covered boats/carts that you were talking about might be unaffected by Mida's Tears, or something. Otherwise, it simply doesn't fit into the game.

Again, you've failed pretty hard here. Sorry. A) If it's hidden a block below lava, you wont be touching it to activate its properties. :cool.gif: If you DO dip under the lava to activate its properties, you're pretty much dead anyway and all your items are going to burn in the lava anyway. C)
And it fits the game perfectly; It's how Zombie Pigmen got their Gold Tools to begin with, after all, there isn't any gold found native to the Nether:

Pigmen were originally a proud race that acted as lords of the Nether and had built entire kingdoms. At their peak, every Pigman carried tools of Netherraze, BloodGems, and perhaps even Obsidian and Netherrack or SoulGlass tools that used crafting recipes that have since been lost to time. These tools, combined with the PIgmen's numbers, were the strength that allowed them to lord over even the most dangerous beasts of the Nether.
However Pigmen had a weakness; their pride... and their greed.
When Midas Tears were discovered, the Pigmen found themselves unconsciously and irresistibly fond of the color and luster it brought to their tools and items. Soon the pigmen sacrificed every tool they had, each individual pigman was certain that his tool wouldn't make that big of a difference to the might of their race.
But soon nearly every tool the Pigmen race had built was now useless gold, unable to be used even to mine new Netherraze and Gloomwood, and too weak to kill more enemies for the bones and bloodgems. Their civilization fell to ruins, and with its fall the wills of the Pigmen were crushed completely. Without their confidence and determination, the pigmen race was eventually warped over time to the Zombie Pigmen that exist now. They still covet their gold tools, but some rare Zombie Pigman will stumble across a relic of Netherraze or Blood Gem and use it to lord over his small clan and act as chieftain.

Re: Salamander's Tongues;

If they have a range of 15 blocks, while existing in lava, their tongue better either have only one heart and, when hurt, break off (whether this could be a collectable item or not, would need balancing. Maybe it's what makes the lasso?) or reel you in VERY slowly. Otherwise you'd just get pulled into lava and set on fire to death ad nauseam.

Honestly, no ****.

tl;dr: Salamanders having tongues that lasso 15 blocks away doesn't really work. Short but very quick make them a threat if you are careless. Otherwise the sheer range plus the speed makes them completely overpowered and, while dangerous, not something that fits the theme of the game (see above mantra).

No. It may make sense from a REAL LIFE animal perspective, but this is Minecraft, and in the Nether to boot. If it was a fast snap, then no one would survive the damn thing at all. It reels you in, and you have a chance to break the thing, though having multiple salamanders to deal with could have a fair chance of making it possible for one to recover and grab you again before you finished making the other let you go.

Re: Gloomwood/Netherraze/New Tools in General;

While interesting, Darkbirth, I have to say... Nice ideas, but we really don't need more tools in the game.

that's something I can agree with.

On the same note, Grey: I don't think there's any real need for the surplus of tools made from nether material either. At the same time, I think that if there's a material that emulates another that it should be able to make whatever it makes (such as netherrack basically emulating dirt/cobble). If anything, I'd agree with the use of tools made from nether having a 1x durability in Nether/2x durability in Overworld and Overworld tools being the reverse just to justify using them. Otherwise they should function as equivalent tools of the same grade without any fancy extra effects like that "chance to burn" thing for netherraze. Meh. Tools are tools are tools. They'll see more use unilaterally as tools just digging dirt, breaking stone, and hewing wood than fighting any number of mobs, sans the sword. Maybe focus on making the swords have special bonuses as per their material, but the general tools should be the same across the board- Different materials make them harvest different blocks faster, and have more durability. It may make it seem "plain", but they're just tools. Go ahead and continue to tout the idea, as I'm all for added variety/choice, but I really doubt that it'll be viewed as necessary by the majority of those who end up using the tools. The only real reason I'd use any material over the other is for look- A red pick-axe or sword looks cooler than a blue/teal or grey one.

None of this made any sense. This thread doesn't propose any tools being made from netherrack or anything else that is teh equivalent of something. Blood Gem are not obtained through mining, and Netherraze ingots are obtained from Netherraze, which has no Overworld equivalent.

Re: Ghosts, Trolls, Magmen and More;

Ghosts should move at 75-80% player speed so they can't just overlay you and ensure you die (as you can't then move faster than they can). Especially since you have to dodge obstacles, and if one caught you in Soul Sand even with the speed decrease it'd still ensure your death. regarding the weapons not being able to hurt it, follow standard D&D procedure: 50% miss chance if it isn't a Ghost Touch weapon or force effect (Which here I assume is Gold).

Ugh, no. It would be easier just to have the ghost slow down to spider speed or something as it approaches the player. So that the player can out maneuver the ghost in medium range, but will never get far enough away to get the ghost to lose them.

Otherwise, not a bad idea. Not much else that I could add to that other than... Perhaps they don't actually attack the player? Perhaps they follow him/her around, waiting for an item to be dropped... Then steal it away? It could "eat" the item, so you'd see it sitting in the middle of the ghost's translucent belly, and while "eaten" it wouldn't fade away. The hard part would be getting it back.

Glutton already does that.

Potential use for gloomwood/soul sand in this case= Contact with either destroys the ghost, and any items consumed are brought to the surface. They'll normally not touch the material (One block avoidance range), but it could be used to create a "Ghost Trap" (no, not like Ghostbusters, just an area you make with the blocks to corral them together and slay them to get your items back...Or maybe an item you craft like the Ghostbusters, iunno). Maybe they can't phase through blocks when they've eaten an item, just to make it fair-but-still-challenging?

Just go the simpler route and have them slowed down while touching/phasing through it, the same way as everything else.

Trolls definitely need a reskinning and a renaming for use in the Nether. Hell, call them Nether Trolls/Demons and give them that black-with-silverish colouring that you were contemplating- And then put the original Trolls (the green ones) up on the Overworld. Let them be able to grab a block of any non-resource, so he can grab dirt, stone, cobble, logs, planks, topiary, etc even sand and gravel, though the former would just break into a pick-up-able resource, and gravel would only break into a gravel resource on impact. That would ensure that they'd still be a menace in both the overworld and underworld, without a) removing non-renewable resources, and :cool.gif: being able to destroy your buildings. It could even use the explosion resistance of the material it grabs to check whether or not it would break what it hits- and/or how much damage it does. Or just does a flat, say, 5 damage no matter what.

The reskinning is something I'm considering purely for Aesthetics. This suggestion isn't about adding things to the Overworld. So whether the troll is going to be added to the overworld is entirely seperate from this.

Perhaps also give it a behaviour of "throw high into air/into nearest deep hole/open lava pit" if it gets into melee range. That would ensure that they remain huge threats that the player would want to get rid of without ever getting into melee range; And it would make it so that the bow is actually seen as more of a necessity rather than a convenience, since no mob in the game currently is threatening enough to require a bow (though one could argue Ghasts, their low HP combined with a Fishing Rod do make them easy pickings... assuming you don't just ignore them and dodge the slowish-moving fireballs).

I have no idea what you're trying to accomplish here.

Nether Trolls/Demons are obviously the more dangerous version... Maybe the silver can be the hairy bits on the model, and they're actually metal spikes (like the spiked Grem) and the trolls' skin is flint-like; When it throws a block of netherrack or some other ignitable substance it ignites it? Could make it even more dangerous but still follow the mantra of "if you're prepared enough, you can handle anything" by being able to scoop handfuls of lava up and fling them at you. Very dangerous, something you definitely don't want to mess with in melee, but still something survivable if you deal with it appropriately. Overworld trolls wouldn't be as dangerous, obviously... Maybe as you mentioned briefly in one of your earlier posts if exposed to sunlight, they are turned to stone permanently... but if you defeat them with attacking, they simply turn to stone until the next night? It'd make them dangerous, but still handle-able (excuse if the talk about the Troll re; Overworld is taken as trying to prop another idea; I was simply trying to expand on the Troll concept, which I think the Overworld -should- have).

Fair enough, but adding all the fire supplemented attacks is just getting rote. Practically everything else in the game sets things on fire or uses lava etc. the Troll stands out as a purely PHYSICAL powerhouse. I'm not going to water that down.

Brands seem interesting, but the whole "I put myself on fire without damaging myself and then rush you ceaselessly until I burn you to death" is... just a bit too much, since you can't extinguish yourself normally (and your idea for a low percent of snowballs functioning is just... no). Maybe make it so they set themselves on fire... and then start melting as they try to kamikaze at you. Sort of like Creepers, except on fire with a timer that doesn't reset, no explosion (Or even an explosion on death if you want; I mean, their "blood" could be a volatile fluid for example), and leaving trails of flame following them.

You've completely misunderstood the point of a Brand. They rush you, until they get ONE hit on you, and then run.

Quote from Darkbirth »

You know what, forget the planks. Forget at all that it was suggested as a building material. Lets instead look at the basic premise.

Gloomwood is a tree, cold as ice, doesn't burn, doesn't have a grain, and somehow can grow from a piece of itself, rather then a seed. Tell me, have you ever heard of a tree that doesn't have a grain? How would the tree grow without a grain? Or how about a tree that grows from a 2 by 4?

Say, what was the about ********? I think it perfectly fits in right here. This concept is downright nonsensical. You know what you said before about turning glowstone into wooden planks or making wool nonflammable(And no, I'm not suggesting this)? Well, you might as well if you think this concept is any less ludicrous.

Yes, I know the nether is a twisted version, but there's twisted, and there's outright nonsensical.
Lava flows like water? Well it is a liquid!
Rocks catch fire? Well they are volatile!
Soul sand slows you down? Well it is kind of like mud!
Gloomwood has nothing to do with a tree other then growing?

Do you see what I'm getting at?

Look, all I'm saying is that it doesn't have to be a tree. It can be anything else BUT a tree. Having it a tree makes NO SENSE! In fact, didn't you say that they were like stalagmites or stalactites? Why not have them those?

Thank you. You're actually trying to apply logic to the situation. While you make good points, I have to point something out.

Palm trees are made of complex fibers that grow as on into a palm tree. The reason they do so it that this makes them very flexible. See, they're very tall trees, so the wind makes them move easily. Because of this, the tree needs to be flexible, or else it would break easily.

Gloomtrees, on the other hand, grow into an environment where there's likely no wind, and is comprised of volatile rock and lava. It's a hostile environment. Therefore, the tree adapted to absorb the heat around it, producing a bitter cold. Okay. I'll buy that. Now, when you start telling me that it's basically a stalactite or something, then we go pass an acceptable boundary.

Since it breaks off into "shards," it's more of a stone then anything else. You could argue that it's a petrified tree, but then how would it have been able to grow from a shard? Since it's petrified, that means it's preserved and thus can't grow. Even that argument isn't legit.

Still, I do agree with you. I would like to see ACTUAL trees in the nether.

Now you really are just being dumb. you just spent half your post arguing against how I claimed that Gloomwood doesn't have a grain, even though I said "It doesn't have a grain that allows it to be fashioned into planks" or to clarify so you can't misunderstand; "It has a grain, but not one that splits into planks properly"

and there are a **** TON of trees out there that reproduce out of pieces of its own wood. I'm pretty sure the large redwood or sequoia do something like that, as they can drop branches, which fall so far that they embed themselves into the ground when they impact, and then put down roots to grow from that. "But those branches have leaves!" I hear you say, well, yeah, and the "leaves" of gloomwood are its shadows, so gloomwood shards have their "leaves" too.

You have this preconceived and absolutely limited idea of what a tree can be like, and it's absolutely ridiculous to do that when this is MINECRAFT, and is dealing with a tree that PRODUCES SHADOWS INSTEAD OF LEAVES, thus not limited to petty little restrictions of real life, and it's even MORE ridiculous when you realize, as I've just pointed out, that trees in REAL LIFE can function similar to the ways I've described Gloomwood behaving (for the tree part, not the shadow and cold producing parts, obviously)

Get over yourself. Your arguments and expectations are unreasonable and ill informed, and have no solid basis in anything at all except your own desire to build something that you wouldn't even want to use gloomwood to build due to its shadow producing effects. You don't even sound like you have any idea what you're arguing for anymore, just that you can remember that it's really important to you, for some unknown reason, that anything called "wood" has to be able to be made into planks.

Excuse me sir! Do you have Prince Albert in a can? You do? Well you better let the poor guy out! Er, I mean...

Edited: Compressed for convenience.

[quote=GreyAcumen]Now you really are just being dumb.~snip[/quote]

You know, I'm getting the feeling that you're just backpedaling and looking for ways too keep this idea alive because you're to stubborn to change your view. Now you've resorted to insulting me? Seriously? I think you're over reacting.

You claimed before that the wood only absorbs light, not produce shadows. Yet now your saying that the shadows are the leaves of the tree? Which is it Grey?

Furthermore, the plants you mentioned, red wood and sequoia, they reproduce from branches, if I'm not mistake. Gloomwood is supposed to grow from "shards." I don't think trees have shards. They have chunks of splintered wood. For a tree to be shards, it would have to be like glass or crystal.

Speaking of such, I took time to check, and while you can grow plants from their branches, it takes a lot of work to do it properly. Yeah, I'm not an expert on trees, but I doubt you are as well. Plus, those are some pretty big trees you've mentioned. Do Gloomwood grow that big?

Back on the subject of shards, I'm pretty sure it's needless to say, but if somethings hard enough to produce SHARDS then I'm sure you'll need something design to break up crystal like formations. An axe would not be suitable for that.

And all your argument before this pretty much came down to "Because I say it is." And like I said, that's WEAK JUSTIFICATION! You've provided NOTHING to back up WHY gloomwood should even be wood in the first place.

As I've said before, I would not be bothered by this if it was anything but wood. The fact that it's called wood is the reason I suggested the wooden planks. Is it hard to see why?

Furthermore, your grain argument was easy to take out of context. It was also easy for you to backpedal and change what you mean. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Even so, the argument is still weak as it's pretty much still "because I say so."

Now, how about you take some time to calm down, think it over, and then give me reason as to why Gloom wood should be wood.

Quote from Thack »

@Darkbirth
Yes, I see that. Maybe all the cold it absorbs makes it brittle, and it crystallizes, although that is quite unrealistic. Perhaps it's a lichen tree, which is a colonial organism and grows well in volitile places, and they can be living and grow, but still be mineral-like; if Lichen grew huge and solid like proposed, it would probably form cakey shards (from my experience with lichen anyway) Yes they usually are smaller, but, trees don't spontaneously grow in real life, either.

Bless your heart, Thack. You're actually coming up with reasons as to why it would be possible. And in all honesty, it's not a bad idea. I'm not sure I would exactly call it a tree, but the idea of hellish mold or lichen is interesting in it's own right. Go ahead and hold on to that idea. It's a good one.

Quote from Darkbirth »

Quote from Thack »

@Darkbirth
Yes, I see that. Maybe all the cold it absorbs makes it brittle, and it crystallizes, although that is quite unrealistic. Perhaps it's a lichen tree, which is a colonial organism and grows well in volitile places, and they can be living and grow, but still be mineral-like; if Lichen grew huge and solid like proposed, it would probably form cakey shards (from my experience with lichen anyway) Yes they usually are smaller, but, trees don't spontaneously grow in real life, either.

Bless your heart, Thack. You're actually coming up with reasons as to why it would be possible. And in all honesty, it's not a bad idea. I'm not sure I would exactly call it a tree, but the idea of hellish mold or lichen is interesting in it's own right. Go ahead and hold on to that idea. It's a good one.

Yes, well done; now that's thinking outside the box. :smile.gif:

It sounds to me like gloomwood is supposed to behave more like some sort of hybrid of crystal and fungus, as opposed to an actual tree. If that's the case, then it shouldn't be called '-wood', because it certainly woodn't be wood then. Yes this is the Nether and things are supposed to behave differently, but think about what these things would be called from the perspective of someone who came from the Overworld; if it feels and acts like wood, they'll call it wood; otherwise they'll call it something else.

Quote from Darkbirth »

Quote from GreyAcumen »

Now you really are just being dumb.~snip

You know, I'm getting the feeling that you're just backpedaling and looking for ways too keep this idea alive because you're to stubborn to change your view. Now you've resorted to insulting me? Seriously? I think you're over reacting.

you've yet to come up with a properly formed argument, and you're even starting to lose the ability to comprehend what I'm writing. Either you're just outright not reading it, or you're not actually thinking about what you've read. It's coming across dumb.

You claimed before that the wood only absorbs light, not produce shadows. Yet now your saying that the shadows are the leaves of the tree? Which is it Grey?

It's both. How are you not able to comprehend that? What is the function of leaves? to catch and absorb light for the purpose of photosynthesis so the tree can grow. Gloomwood "sucks" the light out of its surrounding area to pretty much the same effect (developing the ability to do this to combat nether's low natural lighting level) so the shadows that Gloomwood generate for all intents and purposes act as the "leaves" of Gloomwood. Also, since gloomwood blocks have their shadow generation suppressed when within 2 blocks above or below a soul sand block,(and no, this effect doesn't need to extend to Gloomshards, since they get planted in TILLED Soul Sand) the shadows they generate are generally going to be focused in a similar pattern to leaves on a tree.

Furthermore, the plants you mentioned, red wood and sequoia, they reproduce from branches, if I'm not mistake. Gloomwood is supposed to grow from "shards." I don't think trees have shards. They have chunks of splintered wood. For a tree to be shards, it would have to be like glass or crystal.

A basic google search for "Shard of Wood" probably would have saved you from making incorrect statements.
And as I stated, since Gloomwood's ability to suck light out of the air serves the same purpose as leaves, and since Gloomshards have that same ability, it allows Gloomshards to function as branches even though they are still just shards.

Speaking of such, I took time to check, and while you can grow plants from their branches, it takes a lot of work to do it properly.

Hahahaha. And it's not a lot of work to make a specialized Hoe with heat properties that can only be found in the nether and even requires a shard from the tree your trying to grow in order to make, to till special sand that is only found in the Nether, and then supply it with Bonemeal? Compared to how you can grow a tree without tilling anything or using bonemeal, that sounds just about the right amount of work then. Besides, what you're talking about is the case for plants that DON'T usually reproduce through their own branches. Obviously it's going to be a lot easier when the tree has evolved to use that method of reproduction.

Yeah, I'm not an expert on trees, but I doubt you are as well. Plus, those are some pretty big trees you've mentioned. Do Gloomwood grow that big?

How big they grow is entirely unrelated to their ability for a GAME tree to grow IN THE NETHER using such a method for reproduction.

Back on the subject of shards, I'm pretty sure it's needless to say, but if somethings hard enough to produce SHARDS then I'm sure you'll need something design to break up crystal like formations. An axe would not be suitable for that.

Like I said, google search; Shard of Wood

Furthermore, your grain argument was easy to take out of context. It was also easy for you to backpedal and change what you mean. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

"doesn't have a grain so it can't be fashioned into planks" is not the same as "it doesn't have a grain that allows it to be fashioned into planks" I'm not backpedaling, I'm telling you to read properly, there is no doubt for me to benefit from.

Even so, the argument is still weak as it's pretty much still "because I say so."

I've already justified my stance on numerous occasions, and you simply refuse to accept these as properties that an IMAGINARY tree can have in a realm that even within the game is disconnected from the standard rules of reality. This was the way Gloomwood has ALWAYS been conceived of since its original implementation as Darkwood back in the Aether suggestion thread. The most arguing with you has done is helped nail down its specific properties.
YOU are the one whose argument has boiled down to "because I want it, even though I have no use for it"

Now, how about you take some time to calm down, think it over, and then give me reason as to why Gloom wood should be wood.

I'd like to, but I don't have a time machine to let you travel back into the past so you can watch me explain it to you over again, but you could probably just read back through the archives for the same effect.

It seems the thread has devolved into an argument of semantics.

Does it matter what it's called?

For my part, I think Gloomwood is a fine name; it doesn't need much justification. My justification? It looks like wood. Imagine you're a pioneer, venturing into the Nether where none had been before you. You find this strange... "Thing." It looks kind of like a tree.

What will you name it? You haven't gotten close enough to see what properties this "thing" possesses. All you have to go on: It looks like a tree. You get wood from a tree... It's gloomy-lookin'... "Ah! I know! I'll call it Rainbow Birdy."
Of course, that isn't what you'd call it. From those two properties that you've observed, tree-like and "gloomy," you'll call it... "Gloomwood."

Even if you find that it's not as much like a tree as you'd thought, upon further examination, you've still named it Gloomwood from the initial impression you'd gotten from it.

"Fool's Gold": This isn't gold! It's Pyrite! But it looks kind of like gold... Some people call it Fool's Gold, just because it resembles gold.
"Koala Bear": This isn't a bear! It's a marsupial! But the settlers thought it looked like a bear. Hence, the "bear" part of its name.

As those two (admittedly weak) points hopefully illustrate, things aren't always named "appropriately." You're never going to look at a koala and not have "bear" pop up alongside it in your head. Look at the provided sprite for a Gloomwood block. Does it look like a log? Yes? Why not call it Gloomwood?

Unrelated: If you'd want a "slowing" weapon, I think it'd be best suited to an arrow made with a shard. That's just me, though.

Sorry I've been gone for a while.

Anyways, Grey. Take a break from the thread for a few days. Seems like you kinda need it.

I have to admit I've skimmed most of the Wall-o-Texts these past few pages but here's what I have to say:

@Troll rename/reskin
I'm fully behind that. Though I have trouble mentally thinking up a new color scheme for it. (Personally I think it looks perfect).

@Blood Diamond = Ruby
Yeah I know it's just a palette swap of a Diamond. Buuuut, the same can be said of Iron, Gold, and Brick, Armors, Boots, Swords, Pickaxes, Shovels, Helmets, ... You can see where I'm going here.
Honestly, I don't mind a little more coloration, similar to what you suggested, but I don't think the whole "it's just a palette swap" would work even with Notch directly listening to you.
But by all means please create your own rendition.

@Magmen/Moa additions
Grey covered this well enough, that they don't add enough, or anything, to this interpretation of the Nether.
But trust me, I've been on the look out for Nether suggestions that would fit. I saw those suggestions waaay back when their topics were first made.
If the thread was created AFTER this thread was then you might have a chance. But if it wasn't, and isn't in here now you can safely assume it didn't make the cut.

@Cart to Gold Helm objections
While it's a little portion of the actual code for Midas Tears I can see why it confuses a lot of people.
But, as you'll see if you read the next "bullet", we don't want to add things that bring nothing to minecraft and are purely cosmetic.
If you guys think something else would work better, then give it some real thought, get back to us, and be ready to defend your idea or ready to tweak it.


@Gloomwood should make Gloomplanks not shards!

To everyone, INCLUDING GREY, grow up. (Oh no, I might offend the people arguing over something aesthetic)

I'll tell you here and now:
Gloomplanks will NOT be a portion of this suggestion, sans a certain special case.

Now do you want the short answer why?
It brings nothing to the table that a reskin couldn't.

EVERYTHING in the Nether has some other purpose inside the Nether or brings something else to the entirety of Minecraft.

Gloomwood planks?
They have no proposed purpose outside of decoration.
They have no extra or altered abilities in the Nether or Overworld.
They have no tie in purpose for anything suggested in the Nether OR the Aether.
They.
Have.
Nothing.

Does that mean should Notch decide to pick up this version of the New Nether he WON'T include Gloomwood Planks?
Certainly not.
But we aren't including them because we have no purpose for them.
Notch gets final say in anything and if he wants a simple new tier, or thinks up something amazing then so be it.
But as is, it's not making Opening Post Cut.

As final words on this matter, this is not "Hey Grey and Sabata, defend why there's no Gloomwood planks!" This is "Hey, you guys who want Gloomwood Planks. Why should we consider them?"
The EXACT same mentality was in the Aether thread when it started. Just because I made the opening post doesn't mean the genius rule won't come into play.



Now then, I'm going to be gone a majority of tomorrow and am going to have a busy weekend so expect even less view of me than you've seen.
Remember both of us WILL read all posts that come through here, but it's on your shoulders to think up good additions, because we've given all of ours.
YOU think up/find something you like and tweak it to fit this version of the Nether. Then be ready to defend why your idea should become a part of this larger one.
That said, I hope we'll see more actual constructive discussion on what should and could be in this New Nether instead of this fruitless back and forth of "No you're wrong." NO, you're wrong." "NO YOU ARE!" "NO U!"

This is a community thread, and criticism is welcomed, but realize you have to bring ideas to the table. You can't criticize the absence of ideas.

Yes I wrote this post in supersize so I could get everyone's attention... I felt I needed to.

[quote=GreyAcumen][quote=Darkbirth][quote=GreyAcumen]Now you really are just being dumb.~snip[/quote]

You know, I'm getting the feeling that you're just backpedaling and looking for ways too keep this idea alive because you're to stubborn to change your view. Now you've resorted to insulting me? Seriously? I think you're over reacting.[/quote]you've yet to come up with a properly formed argument, and you're even starting to lose the ability to comprehend what I'm writing. Either you're just outright not reading it, or you're not actually thinking about what you've read. It's coming across dumb.[/quote] I'm comprehending it perfect. All your coming across as is condescending and thick headed.

[quote][quote]You claimed before that the wood only absorbs light, not produce shadows. Yet now your saying that the shadows are the leaves of the tree? Which is it Grey?[/quote]It's both. How are you not able to comprehend that? What is the function of leaves? to catch and absorb light for the purpose of photosynthesis so the tree can grow. Gloomwood "sucks" the light out of its surrounding area to pretty much the same effect (developing the ability to do this to combat nether's low natural lighting level) so the shadows that Gloomwood generate for all intents and purposes act as the "leaves" of Gloomwood. Also, since gloomwood blocks have their shadow generation suppressed when within 2 blocks above or below a soul sand block,(and no, this effect doesn't need to extend to Gloomshards, since they get planted in TILLED Soul Sand) the shadows they generate are generally going to be focused in a similar pattern to leaves on a tree.[/quote]
How does the soul sand stop gloomwood from producing shadows? Furthermore, why does it do this? If soul sand inhibits the darkness abilities, why doesn't normal dirt do the same? Further, why doesn't only the top most blocks have shadows on them instead? Just so it looks like a tree?

On that subject, the darkness wouldn't for "leaves." Go into a dark cave and place two torches, on at each end. Now stand at one torch and look at the other. Notice how you can see the torch at the other end despite the darkness along the way? The shadows wouldn't be leaves, it would just make the area around it darker. If the shadows were leaves, they would be big dark translucent blocks connected to the trees. But no. It's just darkness.

[quote][quote]Furthermore, the plants you mentioned, red wood and sequoia, they reproduce from branches, if I'm not mistake. Gloomwood is supposed to grow from "shards." I don't think trees have shards. They have chunks of splintered wood. For a tree to be shards, it would have to be like glass or crystal.[/quote]A basic google search for [url=http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&gfns=1&q=shard+of+wood]"Shard of Wood"[/url] probably would have saved you from making incorrect statements.
And as I stated, since Gloomwood's ability to suck light out of the air serves the same purpose as leaves, and since Gloomshards have that same ability, it allows Gloomshards to function as branches even though they are still just shards.[/quote]

I'll admit that I may have misinterpreted shard, seeing as how I never hear someone call a chunk of wood a shard, but going by you logic, that would mean that any part of the tree would grow into a tree itself. In that case:

[quote=GreyAcumen]And that's just the most likely and annoying one. After that you get the people who go "if Gloomwood makes planks, why do the planks make shards instead of sticks?" [b]but it doesn't make sense to plant sticks[/b], so then Gloomwood will also need it's own sapling, and if it has a sapling specific to it, it will need leaves too. Congratulations, Gloomwood is now just a magical tree that makes shadows and cold, and whose "twisted" and "corrupt" nature consists of nothing more than a palette recoloring.[/quote]

That line there pretty much contradicts what you're saying here. You argument is that even the slightest part, namely a shard, can absorb light and grow into another tree. In that case, there's no reason a stick wouldn't grow into a tree.

[quote][quote]Speaking of such, I took time to check, and while you can grow plants from their branches, it takes a lot of work to do it properly. [/quote]Hahahaha. And it's not a lot of work to make a specialized Hoe with heat properties that can only be found in the nether and even requires a shard from the tree your trying to grow in order to make, to till special sand that is only found in the Nether, and then supply it with Bonemeal? Compared to how you can grow a tree without tilling anything or using bonemeal, that sounds just about the right amount of work then. Besides, what you're talking about is the case for plants that DON'T usually reproduce through their own branches. Obviously it's going to be a lot easier when the tree has evolved to use that method of reproduction.[/quote]

In that case, how would the trees have grown in the first place? By what you're saying here, the trees wouldn't have the ability to reproduce on their own. The soul sand needs be tilled and bone meal used on it? Okay. Then how does an entire forest sprout up with trees that "have evolved to combat their environment?"

[quote][quote]Yeah, I'm not an expert on trees, but I doubt you are as well. Plus, those are some pretty big trees you've mentioned. Do Gloomwood grow that big?[/quote]How big they grow is entirely unrelated to their ability for a GAME tree to grow IN THE NETHER using such a method for reproduction.[/quote]

If that's the case, then something like a gloomwood stick would be enough to grow a gloomwood, right?

[quote][quote]Furthermore, your grain argument was easy to take out of context. It was also easy for you to backpedal and change what you mean. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.[/quote]"doesn't have a grain [i]so it can't[/i] be fashioned into planks" is not the same as "it doesn't have a grain [b]that allows it to[/b] be fashioned into planks" I'm not backpedaling, I'm telling you to read properly, there is no doubt for me to benefit from.[/quote]

Or you could have said, "it doesn't have the right type of grain." Even then, that's a limitation YOU'RE putting in place, not the game itself.

[quote][quote] Even so, the argument is still weak as it's pretty much still "because I say so."[/quote]I've already justified my stance on numerous occasions, and you simply refuse to accept these as properties that an IMAGINARY tree can have in a realm that even within the game is disconnected from the standard rules of reality. This was the way Gloomwood has ALWAYS been conceived of since its original implementation as Darkwood back in the Aether suggestion thread. The most arguing with you has done is helped nail down its specific properties.
YOU are the one whose argument has boiled down to "because I want it, even though I have no use for it"[/quote]

This is where you've got it wrong. Several times I asked "How is it like a tree," and you're answer pretty much came down to "because you need and axe to cut it and it can grow." Everything else has simply been explaining what the tree does, and those explanations don't make gloomwood seem like a tree. They make it seem more like ice or some hellish rock.

Also, don't put words in my mouth. I wanted wooden plank to build with. You know, a big part of that game. And don't argue with me that the logs are the same. I'd like to build without having blocks cast shadows or destroying my torches, and not have to set soul sand every two or four blocks. It's overly complicated and restricting. Having some variety in wood would be a very nice thing to have for the sake of decoration.

[quote][quote]Now, how about you take some time to calm down, think it over, and then give me reason as to why Gloom wood should be wood.[/quote]I'd like to, but I don't have a time machine to let you travel back into the past so you can watch me explain it to you over again, but you could probably just read back through the archives for the same effect.[/quote]

In the end, all it really comes down to is "It's a tree because you say it's a tree." That's not a good argument.

@Sabata2: Sorry about the mess. This post is a bit lengthy, but I do feel as though I should argue my case. It's not so much it being "no gloomwood planks." as it being just a tree for the sake of a tree. However, thanks for giving an actual reason behind not having Gloomwood planks. If I can, I'll see if I can come up with any uses.

Quote from Darkbirth »

@Sabata2: Sorry about the mess. This post is a bit lengthy, but I do feel as though I should argue my case. It's not so much it being "no gloomwood planks." as it being just a tree for the sake of a tree. However, thanks for giving an actual reason behind not having Gloomwood planks. If I can, I'll see if I can come up with any uses.

I'm glad you atleast read it. For a second there I thought the thread had gotten to the point where it was so far gone people weren't even paying attention to the TC anymore.

Though I would like it if you, and everyone who argued against you, go back through your posts and simply surround everything to do with the back and forth with CODE[code] [code][/code] [/code]tags.
It'll shrink down all that back and forth that only you guys really cared about into a single size chunk and it won't scare others away if it's their first time into the thread.


Also, I warn against trying Gloomwood Tools. Ideas concerning them prooobably won't be the most groundbreaking.





*edit*
Totally unrelated note. Anyone else notice that those red bars by our posts no longer signify if we're online or not?

The below isn't code bracketed because of replying to specific points while color-coding and/or quoting my replies being impossible using code tags. I did snip out the original points (though left enough in to give the gist of what he was talking about to check against the previous post that is coded) but left in his points to understand my responses, in case he edits what he said at a later time.

Quote from GreyAcumen »

Quote from Amariithynar »

PREVIEW EDUT: {snip - stuff about trees}

All well and good, but does that mean that you can make good planks out of them with basic hand carpentry tools? Furthermore does it prove in any way that a tree CAN'T exist that has its grain malformed in such a way that it isn't suitable for making wood planks from?

Actually, yes it does. The palm trees that are harvested were originally harvested by hand by Phillipino farmers; Men and women using small hand tools, not giant machines. While they may now be processed by machine, they were used long before they were considered for the lumber industry; In fact, before such a thing even existed.

Re: Bloodstone = Rubies -snip-

A) Blood Gem, not stone. :cool.gif: Seeing as how even the DYES that notch added to the game have different graphics, I highly doubt that, if other gemstones DO get added to the game, that they will be merely a recoloring. I honestly don't feel like coming up with my own graphic for it. All I needed to do was convey that it's a red gem, and it can be crafted into tools.

Gems are stones. That's why they're called gemstones in the proper vernacular, not just "gems". Whether or not I got your precious name right by calling it a "Blood Gem" instead of bloodstone is inconsequential. As for the dyes, Gray/Pink/Magenta/Purple/Lime all share the same graphic, simply recoloured. All the items that are made using wood/gold/stone/iron/diamond also all use the same graphics, again simply recoloured. Same goes for your tool graphics, which simply uses a colour not used yet- red. If you want to make something original, make it actually original, ne?

Re: The whole Gloomwood issue -snip-

You just failed and failed hard here. Did you seriously quote me BUFFALO STONE? A professional company that undoubtedly uses some of the most high tech equipment available for doing that job?
Sure, you can MAKE planking from wood that is usually unsuitable for it through various high tech methods, and you might have a CHANCE of being able to accomplish that by hand, but that doesn't mean that you'll be able to GET that from a chunk of log that hasn't grown in a way that is conducive to that.

Yes, i did just quote you buffalo stone, since it was a simple and quick google. They are definitely not the first to do so; The ancient Egyptians had stone slabs that weighed tons... all the way down to using mother-of-pearl in tiling. Certainly we usually call stone planks slabs instead of planks, but the shape and concept are the same- A relatively thin layer of material used as a decorative finish. Granite has always been a common material used this way, as has marble- The Romans used it for facing, as well as tiling in baths as it is still used today. Do you know what "having a twisted grain" means in traditional lumber? Knots, which are usually cut from planks (widthwise, shortening it and putting it to a different use than the rest of the trunk) so that it doesn't disrupt the aesthetic of the grain. But, as shown by Porcupine Wood, aka palm lumber, even a twisted (non)grain can be used aesthetically. Long story short, you can take things that have no grain or a twisted grain and make planks out of them.
Trying to take the fact that the first-link-on-Google sample I provided was a more recent, high-tech example rather than the underlying principle of "Stone can be planked" and then throwing it in my face as if to make me look like an idiot is a really nasty thing to try.

Making planks from wood doesn't need dexterity, it needs wood that can be made into planks to begin with. You can cut wood apart in a plank shape, but if it already has breaks in the wood, then those breaks aren't just going to magically seal up when you cut it apart.

tl;dr: Just because you say it should, doesn't mean it should.

Actually, yes it does need dexterity. It needs a great deal of manual dexterity, hand-eye coordination, and a sharp eye to make planks. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plane_%28tool%29 ) Planes have been used for longer than recorded history; Since we can generally make planks of wood even without a crafting table, that would assume we're, as players, dexterous/strong enough and have the required coordination/sharpness of sight to craft planks straight from a length of wooden log. Even if you can't use a plane to shave off pieces, due to brittleness, you can knapp ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knapping ) stone or other conchordial fracturing materials (You seem to be implying that gloomwood is, which... just isn't possible if it grows through any process, really. For reference, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_grain and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_s ... in_size%29 . Even colloidal substances such as milk (liquid butterfat suspended in a water-based liquid) still have grain. Stating something has no grain is a bald-faced lie. Even Freestone, a stone that is supposedly without grain, simply is a very fine-grained rock. Everything has a grain.

Re: Gloomwood burning with blue "Coldfire";

Still not sold on the idea.

*shrug* Really, you can color regular flame with various chemicals like magnesium (electric white), barium chloride (green), or copper sulfate (blue), among others. They've been used for quite a long time; At least since the fourteenth century (though admittedly only for Chinese royalty) in fireworks, if not earlier in the use of colouring fires used by shaman (/theory). I think more people would appreciate blue torches than would appreciate the rest of its uses, but that's me.

Re: Minecart vs. Mida's Tears -snip-

Again, you've failed pretty hard here. Sorry. A) If it's hidden a block below lava, you wont be touching it to activate its properties. :cool.gif: If you DO dip under the lava to activate its properties, you're pretty much dead anyway and all your items are going to burn in the lava anyway. C)
And it fits the game perfectly; It's how Zombie Pigmen got their Gold Tools to begin with, after all, there isn't any gold found native to the Nether:

-Pigmen info snip-

Not at all. Though I'd appreciate it if you stopped trying to attack me and my intelligence with your "you've failed pretty hard" ********. A) There are plenty of lava falls or slopes where you WILL be touching the adjacent blocks at an angle. In most maps of the Nether I've generated or my friends have generated, they tend NOT to just be flat, high levels of lava the entire way through. Do also recall that you can get a diagonal recognition of touch/weight with just the basic minecart on a track that takes two turns in quick succession. :cool.gif: Covered in A. Even then, the lighting in the Nether just by lava isn't very bright, and the graphic for the Midas' Tears isn't different enough to ensure that it isn't simply mistaken for another patch of lava. If it gave off a golden light ("All that shimmers is gold" lyrics being the first thing that pops into my head) or something, something that makes it obviously different from lava, or simply not being able to be spawned in contact with lava.

Re: Salamander's Tongues -snip-

Honestly, no ****.

Stuff you. Seriously.

Quote from GreyAcumen »

Quote from Equeon »

All right, great. I hope the tongue isn't just 1 hit to escape, though. Four or five punches is good, since you can punch RIDICULOUSLY fast. I once killed a Zombie that was trapped in a corner in about 6 seconds with my fists

You can break it in one hit provided you have a strong enough weapon. Keep in mind that it's going to reel you in fairly quickly, and there may be more than one present to lasso you, so you wont have time to leisurely wear the tongue out.

YOUR OWN DAMN WORDS. "fairly quickly". No matter what speed you consider "fairly quickly", that's still too fast for any reasonable concept at a 10-15 block range.

tl;dr: Salamanders having tongues that lasso 15 blocks away doesn't really work. -snip-

No. It may make sense from a REAL LIFE animal perspective, but this is Minecraft, and in the Nether to boot. If it was a fast snap, then no one would survive the damn thing at all. It reels you in, and you have a chance to break the thing, though having multiple salamanders to deal with could have a fair chance of making it possible for one to recover and grab you again before you finished making the other let you go.

Your own words, listed above by me, state "fairly quickly" for (as mentioned in an earlier post) a distance of 10-15 blocks. Anything "Quick" at a distance of that measure is simply too fast, period. That can reach up and pull you off a cliff, or snatch you from a relatively large island in the middle of a lake of lava (thirty blocks wide is relatively large; Standing in the center, you'd be able to be attacked from any direction. As there is rarely any situation where you'll have a perfect 30 block diameter circle island, you'll have bumps pushing out and in on the shoreline, leading to an uneven distribution of attackable locations, true; But it still doesn't fix the fact that it's a very long swath that any one point can quickly attack. Thus why I stated a range of 5 (five meters/blocks is STILL a long range for a melee type attack) would be reasonable at that speed. Not to mention that a range of 5 is outside all but the range of bows.

Re: Gloomwood/Netherraze/New Tools in General -snip-

None of this made any sense. This thread doesn't propose any tools being made from netherrack or anything else that is teh equivalent of something. Blood Gem are not obtained through mining, and Netherraze ingots are obtained from Netherraze, which has no Overworld equivalent.

It proposes tools made from "Blood Gem" and from Netherraze. I stated that while I believe that any material currently existing that is basically an equivilent (like netherrack is to dirt/cobble) should be able to be used as a differently-textured version of that material in crafting recipes (like a lot of other materials are currently; Wooden/stone stairs, wooden/iron doors, wooden/stone slabs, every tool, weapon, and armor item using every one of the materials from wood through diamond except wooden armor, etc. etc.), that we don't need new items that have a mess of new effects. the double durability function already exists, so applying it to the code for Nether materials harvested by Overworld material tools is relatively easy, as is the reverse; However, the whole special thing of Netherraze (entirely new material being mined, with a rate of acquisition the same low rate of diamond, then... frozen? to be tempered? What? Illogical. Heated materials are, plain and simple, easier to be molded because of the heat- the molecules are expressing a lot more energy, and are also a lot more fluid- This is why lava is a lot easier to manipulate while hot and fluid than cooled into stone. If the metal is naturally hot enough to set things on fire but not be in a fluid form, all it would need is a non-conductive material as a hilt to stop the heat from radiating through to your hand, and a sheath made of similar material in the real world; As there is no visible sheath for any sword ingame, it can be assumed they are crafted with one and it simply is invisibly located in the backpack, or attached to the side of the backpack.) or Blood Gem ( Only obtained as a low percent drop from hard to kill mobs? Ensures that either only the swords will be crafted, because the people hunting them are fighter-types looking for an edge.... Or rarely found by crafters and generally ignored, who could care less about killing stuff and just bring a stack of cobble and sticks to make stone picks, which would be more efficient to time spent, since they're only there for the quicktravel).

Re: Ghosts, Trolls, Magmen and More -snip-

Ugh, no. It would be easier just to have the ghost slow down to spider speed or something as it approaches the player. So that the player can out maneuver the ghost in medium range, but will never get far enough away to get the ghost to lose them.

That works. It was just an idea for them not to just be always as fast as you, which in any non-entirely flat area means it would get you. Making them move spider speed (and unable to jump you like a spider >_>) would be balance enough. I still think the 1/2 rate of hitting with non-Gold items would be appropriate, and then Notch doesn't have to try and put in a "if player inventory = contains gold item, attack", just the basic mob attack formula. Since that follows the guideline of KISS, I'm for it.

-ghost item-grabber idea snip-

Glutton already does that.

Glutton steals items from you, prioritizing food items; As far as I understood, they didn't pick up loose items. Besides, the idea was as a replacement for them damaging you- all they do is follow you and just snatch stuff when you die, so you'd have a troubling time getting your stuff back when you came back. If it is slowed down to spider speed at medium range and closer, that would alleviate the need to change it's style from the Basic Attack Formula.

-Alternative Ghost movement idea snip-

Just go the simpler route and have them slowed down while touching/phasing through it, the same way as everything else.

Agreed. Was just a random idea that bubbled to the surface when I was trying to think of a replacement for as-fast-as-player ghosts... When I should have just thought of slower-when-in-range, which is the obviously simpler choice.

-Trolls reskinning, thoughts re; nether and overworld versions, and attack development snip-

The reskinning is something I'm considering purely for Aesthetics. This suggestion isn't about adding things to the Overworld. So whether the troll is going to be added to the overworld is entirely seperate from this.

My point still stands re; what they should be able to throw, for either iteration, whether or not the Troll is moved Overworld-side as well. I simply like the idea of the Troll Overworld-side as well, since as stated later in my point, there really isn't anything so dangerous that it requires a bow; Skellies are very predictable with their shots and movements, and none of the melee mobs are really dangerous at all, sans surprise.

-Trolls throwing in melee range snip-

I have no idea what you're trying to accomplish here.

By making them hit you high into the air/into a deep hole/into lava, it makes them more deadly. If all they do is throw stuff at you, all you have to do really is get into melee range and dodge them as they follow the same predictable pattern as the skellies. Giving them a heavy knockback effect means that you do NOT want to get into melee range with it, while it's constantly charging, throwing pieces of the landscape at you. Encountering it in a cave system wouldn't really be that dangerous if it was just "throw the player into the air", thus why it would also toss the player down a hole, or into lava; In other words, be careful around trolls in melee range. They will really mess you up. Be careful at range, too, or again, they will mess you up.

-Troll flavour/attacks ideas snip-

Fair enough, but adding all the fire supplemented attacks is just getting rote. Practically everything else in the game sets things on fire or uses lava etc. the Troll stands out as a purely PHYSICAL powerhouse. I'm not going to water that down.

Yeah, it was simply an idea for them to be able to toss around ignitables and source blocks of lava as ammo as well, for added danger. Maybe it seems a bit cliche, but cliches are cliches for a reason; They make a general sort of sense. If it were able to throw lava around, by default its hide must be immune to a great amount of heat, and thus fire-based attacks such as ghast fireballs and Brand attacks would be ineffective, as would leading it into a lava flow/pouring lava on it. As for other things using fire/lava- I'm only aware of Ghasts using fire, and nothing else that isn't something suggested in this thread that uses fire or lava. Even then, only the Brand comes to mind for anything that uses fire, while salamanders are immune from lava's burn/drowning (since with their height it looks like they'd drown in a single layer).

-Brands snip-

You've completely misunderstood the point of a Brand. They rush you, until they get ONE hit on you, and then run.

No, I haven't. They set themselves on fire, then hit you, making you burn. Since you can't put yourself out other than with snowballs (Which are a really silly idea... They'd melt and evaporate faster than a bucket of water would) then it's basically a death by ticks after one hit. If their only purpose when lighting up is.. to hit you while they're on fire 'cause it looks neat? ... Just No.

Quote from Darkbirth »

-Gloomtrees snip-

Now you really are just being dumb. you just spent half your post arguing against how I claimed that Gloomwood doesn't have a grain, even though I said "It doesn't have a grain that allows it to be fashioned into planks" or to clarify so you can't misunderstand; "It has a grain, but not one that splits into plants properly"

and there are a **** TON of trees out there that reproduce out of pieces of its own wood. I'm pretty sure the large redwood or sequoia do something like that, as they can drop branches, which fall so far that they embed themselves into the ground when they impact, and then put down roots to grow from that. "But those branches have leaves!" I hear you say, well, yeah, and the "leaves" of gloomwood are its shadows, so gloomwood shards have their "leaves" too.

You have this preconceived and absolutely limited idea of what a tree can be like, and it's absolutely ridiculous to do that when this is MINECRAFT, and is dealing with a tree that PRODUCES SHADOWS INSTEAD OF LEAVES, thus not limited to petty little restrictions of real life, and it's even MORE ridiculous when you realize, as I've just pointed out, that trees in REAL LIFE can function similar to the ways I've described Gloomwood behaving (for the tree part, not the shadow and cold producing parts, obviously)

Get over yourself. Your arguments and expectations are unreasonable and ill informed, and have no solid basis in anything at all except your own desire to build something that you wouldn't even want to use gloomwood to build due to its shadow producing effects. You don't even sound like you have any idea what you're arguing for anymore, just that you can remember that it's really important to you, for some unknown reason, that anything called "wood" has to be able to be made into planks.

Er, no. YOUR arguments and expectations are unreasonable and ill informed, on no solid basis other than your own silly logic, as I explained above regarding grain- Anything called "wood" CAN be made into planks. Only your stubborn insistance that it is wood that isn't wood is what continues this farce of an argument about what it can be used for. YOU'RE the one with the preconcieved and absolutely limited idea of what a tree is, trying to say that it is a tree yet isn't a tree in any recognizable sense of the word other than declaring "It's wood because I say so, even if it doesn't share ANY other characteristics with wood, again because I say so". It doesn't matter that it makes shadows instead of leaves, since the purpose of leaves in the first place is to make sugars, aka energy, from carbon dioxide through photosynthesis. If it gets its energy from a different process, leaves are unnecessary. You do make a single correct point here though- Any tree, in fact any plant, can be made to root from a cutting provided it is large enough to take. It is most common in horticulture regarding small plants, rather than actual trees, but if large enough branches split from the trunk and can bury deeply enough on the broken end into the ground, they -can- survive. The chance is much higher when root hormones are used, which would mean that to actually get it to grow at all you should have to use Bone Meal on it (as it currently is), and to make it sprout immediately another bone meal would have to be used after that. Assuming it actually IS wood.

Now, with that all said, Sabata: You're wanting reasoning for gloomwood planks? Ambience. Decorative flair. Something doesn't necessarily have to have a direct function other than to look nice. I mean, putting two chests together to get a double-sized chest rather than just two chests placed beside each other is an aesthetic issue, rather than giving any real benefit (I know, you can access both storages at the same time- but realistically you can just store everything you might need of a number of types in a single chest, ala Adventuring Chest (Holds armor, materials to make weapons/weapons premade, torches/coal and sticks, portion of food. All of which fits easily into a single chest). Since the logs are concentrated Gloomwood, Gloomplanks have less of an effect in dampening light, making it so that you can create a shadowed floor, for example, while maintaining a brightly lit ceiling.

Still, though, if you want an ACTUAL use- Have it be the base for the "Freezer". 8 planks in a box shape just like a chest instead of simply throwing it into a furnace and changing it from smelting to freezing suddenly due to a different "fuel". Since it radiates chill, it'd make more sense than "burning" it in a furnace/freezer to freeze something. And instead of having a smelting "process" simply have it wait a half game day cycle (10 minutes) to freeze whatever was put into it. Lava in a bucket results in a block of obsidian and a empty bucket.

Maybe make it the first wood-type armor, that protects you from getting set on fire/from fire damage better than any other armor- but is flimsier than all but cloth armor.

Maybe instead of that whole "use a minecart as a boat for lava" idea, you use Gloomwood instead. Since it leeches heat, it'd make a perfect lava-boat; Not only that, but it'd turn the lava to obsidian at the same time, effectively riding a super-cooling wave of lava. Add salamander skin to the recipe either before (in the middle) or after crafting the boat (as current) if you must. And then we can stop the whole "minecart turns into gold ingots/helmet" silliness. Let it just be unaffected, since salamanders would need to be able to swim through Mida's Tears with no ill effect. 

Make it into a 2x4 "door" shape to make a one-use portal to the Nether, in reverse of the "emergency teleport".

Make an apple surrounded by 8 pieces of gloom-plank to get a Rotten Apple, which reduces HP to 1 (both as Glutton-bait, and for challenge runs- Has griefing potential, but nothing that would be really massively done).

Have it used to make beds that suck in the light from around the bed- letting you sleep even during the day.

Since they aren't burnable, they make effective anti-griefer wooden housing material.

Maybe a SINGLE tool, a Gloomwood Shovel, that lets you shovel Lava into your backpack as Obsidian (rediculously fast Obsidian farming! ...yeah, unbalanced, but /randomthought that sounded possible, with tweaking).

When used to make a bookshelf, gives a different, creepier set of notes to read when right-clicking.

If used to make a Pressure Plate/lever, or simply attached to Redstone in any way, acts as a "KILL" switch (ie; prevents it from activating).

You asked for ideas. Some of them were thought out. Not all of them were.

Oh, and in response to your "Can't criticize absence of ideas" point- 
1. The act of criticizing, especially adversely.
2. A critical comment or judgment.
3. a. The practice of analyzing, classifying, interpreting, or evaluating literary or other artistic works.
    b. A critical article or essay; a critique.
    c. The investigation of the origin and history of literary documents; textual criticism.

Thus, criticizing the fact that there is an absence of an idea of why, while it looks, acts, and is named wood, it suddenly doesn't act like it at all is in fact a valid criticism. We've given reasons why even though it's effectively being used as "wood-that-isn't-wood", it still would function as wood- or stone, which can still be used in much the same manner, rebutting his arguments with logic. We were providing constructive criticism- "If you call it wood, and it acts like wood in other ways (I mean, it even makes "Gloom O'Lanterns" acting as a torch replacement) well, it should act like wood. If it doesn't have a proper grain, that's fine. Make it make less planks or something- It doesn't have to be perfect. Let us use it in more ways, because freedom of concept is better than unnecessary restrictions." And were basically getting a "STFU, MY IDEA, MY WAY!", which we weren't and still are't standing for.

Oh, and general side note: Iron's melting point is 1538*C, while lava and magma both tends to be in the temperature range of 700-1300*C, with extremely rare lows and highs of as cool as 600*C or as hot as 1600*C. It'd certainly heat up (And burn your butt) if you tried making a boat out of iron to float through lava, but as it's open-to-air lava (not magma) that you're floating on, it would tend to be towards the cooler portion of the tempurature gauge, and thus a regular iron boat would be able to withstand the heat without melting. Without some form of heat protection for yourself, you'd still burn.... At least, if Minecraft didn't follow Convection Schmonvection.

Looks Magnificent!

Does that mean should Notch decide to pick up this version of the New Nether he WON'T include Gloomwood Planks?
Certainly not.
But we aren't including them because we have no purpose for them.

Well said! Here - . :smile.gif:

For the future, here's a little tip (a little something for everyone): When people suggest cosmetic/aesthetic options that have no specific function or are essentially just reskins (gold carts, gloomwood planks, etc), rather than argue about their function/value, just accept the suggestion and move on. You might not see the value in them (or their discussion), but others might and there's absolutely no harm in that. Minecraft is no stranger to mere aesthetics (there are currently three types of trees and they all do the same thing).