The best I can think is it'd be able to make a Sunlight Mob killer, but that'd be far less efficient than even the things people have come up with now.
And the "grab broken blocks no matter what" seems fairly pointless to me. It's only useful when you know you're digging something out that's over a pit or lava. For everything else you're either going to be standing near it or the broken block will fall onto you.
The only part I find useful is the slowing of enemies.
The best I can think is it'd be able to make a Sunlight Mob killer, but that'd be far less efficient than even the things people have come up with now.
Don't forget about the fact that it has a blast resistance of 60. That means you can use it for windows that can't be broken by Ghast Bombs or Fright Bulbs, and may even survive creeper explosions. It would also let you create colored strobe lights by using it to block off Mushraves and Ravegel. It could also be used for auto-harvesting mushrooms, if they were ever made growable, since Mushrooms will pop off into item form when exposed to too much light.
And the "grab broken blocks no matter what" seems fairly pointless to me. It's only useful when you know you're digging something out that's over a pit or lava. For everything else you're either going to be standing near it or the broken block will fall onto you.
There are plenty of times where even a block that you are right next to will break in a direction that doesn't go anywhere near you. It's also useful for digging pitfalls since you can dig down 3 or 4 blocks deep and not need to jump down into it to grab the blocks you mined out from it.
The other point it has is functioning as a secondary tier Nether Tool that can be gathered with a gold shovel that can be obtained from Zombie PIgmen, and crafted into a Soul Shovel which gives players access to Netherraze even if they don't have an iron or diamond shovel that they brought from the overworld, making the Nether more self sustainable.
Also, quick mockup of how they'd look: (the image on the right for making transparency more obvious)
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I have to agree with anton on the Sticky Soul Sand.
If support is removes, sand/gravel should fall. After all, it was the sticky sand that kept it in place.
Uh
The blight thing is cool, but i've been thinking.... The nether is mostly glowstone, netherrack, and soul sand. All of these are brittle materials and can be mined so easily... so why use Blood tools and Raze tools? Now, since both of them have halved durability in the overworld, that makes them a little bit useless. I know the swords and such will be useful, but as for other tools, it wouldn't be much useful (except for raze shovel and blood hoe maybe...) because they're both so rare.
Now soulglass tools would be quite nice, as netherrack is easily mined, so even the speed of a wooden pick would do, and soul sand is common, but the bones would be hard to acquire.... Maybe trolls drop 6-8 bones? If possible, it could vary on difficulty, easy: 6-8, medium: 4-5 hard:0-3.
But after thinking all of this, i could just get 2 stacks of cobblestone and 2 stacks of sticks, and that would be sufficient for a reasonably long stay in the nether...
Anyway, generally good ideas here :smile.gif:
Also, soul sand is good as suggested
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They're mainly thought for battle use.
Blood tier is the strongest damaging. Raze tools ignite enemies.
Both of those attributes carry over into the Overworld, but to balance their strengths they're only really good in the area that's focused around combat.
Plus you're forgetting about the introduction of Gloomwood, in what's in the Nether.
And IIRC Trolls, will drop 1~2 Big/Demon bones when killed. I don't think anything from the Overworld drops in the New Nether.
So Nether dungeons are just tricky and dangerous mazes with no possible way of reaping the rewards?
No those chests are similar to teases. There IS a "final chest" further into the dungeon but these are more of teases than anything else.
32 per item?! That is way way too many, especially seing as how Netherack burns forever. Do you realise how fast the arrow would have to move to make 32 per item possible? And you would have to reload the furnace after 2 blocks were smelted. Terrible idea.
And there is a TON of Netherrack around. Moreso than stone. The more economical "fast smelt" is NetherRaze, but it can also be used as tool material so there's a tradeoff.
And you're thinking of how fast the FLAME would have to go. The arrow would take 4~5 seconds.
Wood and Stone Shovels mine Soul Sand at the same rate as Diamond Picks do Obsidian. Fists and other tools can break, but cannot mine.
Care to explain this? 12s is a long time.
Think about it the same as Punching Stone. Except imagine that using a Wood pickax took 12 seconds to harvest it.
There isn't much to explain, unless you'd like to rephrase the question.
I could go through and pick out all the things I have issues with here but I'm not allowed to embed that many quotes, and I've only got as far as the soul sand so far, so I'll just say you really need to take a look through that list and at every point ask yourself the question "is this really needed?" If the first thing that comes to your mind is "no" then scrap it straight away. If the first thing that comes to your mind is "uh... well . . ." then the answer is probably "no" but you just have a bias towards it because it is your own creation, so scrap it.
We did that.
Extensively.
Seriously, we did before this thread even went up we went back and forth, Grey and I, as to what should make the cut. Everything in this thread we can explain with reasoning that stands on either the mithos of the Nether we're trying to build or the abilities of the Overworld.
But please go through what you think is wrong and tell us.
Hell the current topic is because of other users talking about problems.
the player will even come across Chests that are visible to the player, but completely inaccessible
So Nether dungeons are just tricky and dangerous mazes with no possible way of reaping the rewards?
Paying attention and remembering that these ideas were not developed by morons will help locate the key word here.
32 per item?! That is way way too many, especially seing as how Netherack burns forever. Do you realise how fast the arrow would have to move to make 32 per item possible? And you would have to reload the furnace after 2 blocks were smelted. Terrible idea.
You forget that Netherrack is F-ing EVERYWHERE in the Nether and can be mined with ANY pick. That type of ratio is downright required to be balanced. Obviously netherrack burns forever, but that's not necessarily true when you're squeezing a faster burn rate out of it.
Wood and Stone Shovels mine Soul Sand at the same rate as Diamond Picks do Obsidian. Fists and other tools can break, but cannot mine.
Care to explain this? 12s is a long time.
15 seconds. That's only for wood and stone. Obviously they're getting stuck in the Sticky Soul Sand and slowed by it so they can't mine it as fast. If you want a decent speed, use a gold, iron, or diamond shovel, or one of the Nether shovels.
I could go through and pick out all the things I have issues with here but I'm not allowed to embed that many quotes, and I've only got as far as the soul sand so far, so I'll just say you really need to take a look through that list and at every point ask yourself the question "is this really needed?" If the first thing that comes to your mind is "no" then scrap it straight away. If the first thing that comes to your mind is "uh... well . . ." then the answer is probably "no" but you just have a bias towards it because it is your own creation, so scrap it.
If I said "uh, well" on any of these, they wouldn't be there.
You only need to adjust features if there is something wrong with it. There is nothing wrong with taking less than 12s to break soul sand with a stone shovel, so don't change that.
there's also nothing wrong with reading carefully.
There are also alot of good ideas, such as soul sand being able to support gravity-affected blocks, but you really need to think through the practical application of some of these ideas.
Okay, anyway, GreyAcumen and Sabata2, I need YOUR help in convincing a bunch of modders to convert from NetherUpdatism to New Netherism.
The outcome is the difference between this mod being made, and it not being made while a crappier topic is made.
They already seem to like all the mobs, but I lack enough reasoning to convince them about other things.
I don't really see the point. i mean, sure they can do the textures for gloomwood and kitrinite tools and whatnot, but what's going to be the point when there aren't any stats or features to go with them?
Besides, this suggestion has only just started to get rolling. There's a lot of stuff that needs added yet.
But it's not an easy sell to convert people to the New Nether.
There's a lot of people out there who'd rather have new, and entirely useless, ores than none at all.
And because of that they'll NEVER prefer the New Nether to the Nether Update.
And on the side of the modders, TNU is a fair amount easier to implement because... it's more of the same. There's nothing drastically new in TNU so they can mod it in easily.
TNN, while being perfectly possible, would be a fair amount harder.
By the way, the poll is now up, please support the New Nether!
Even if you don't like it so much, GreyAcumen, the difference is either it gets made, or not. At the click of an option.
I have two new ideas for dungeon or cave monsters.
1. A tendril-like entity which slowly grows. It has a maximum of 10 blocks wide for its base, but the tendrils can reach up to 30 blocks away. If the player finds a dungeon, marks it, and comes back a few days later, any creature like this would have grown significantly during that time.
To defeat it, you must battle its tendrils first (they fight back with quick, striking movements, possibly disarming you)
Occasionally, larger tentacles, a maximum of 3 per creature, will grow out of the core of the monster (think: mass of tentacles + Sarlaac.) These can reach up to 40 blocks away (keep in mind this is only through dungeon corridors or large caves, it doesn't go through walls or intrude into many other dungeon rooms.)
These will grab the player and begin dragging him towards the core, sometimes smashing him against the wall. If you've seen the video for the Aether Team's version of the Swet, which absorbs the player, it will be a similar battle to "break free."
If the player can't destroy the tentacle in time, he'll either be killed by being smashed against the wall or destroyed by the core.
To finally kill the nasty beast, you must destroy the core or center. (which may attempt to grow back small tentacles, that still attack but are very weak.)
Summary:
Mob Name: (Tendril Monster?) Size: Grows, max 10 blocks Damage: Tentacles do hearts on Hard Health: Small Tentacles take 2 hits with a diamond sword to destroy, Large Tentacles take 4 hits with a diamond sword to destroy, the core takes 6 hits with a diamond sword to destroy. Rarity: Relatively rare in dungeons, medium-rarity in large caverns of the Nether, not found anywhere else. Drops: One to three? Blood Gems. A boss monster of this size deserves a good reward.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. A small, round, immobile, sac-like monster which dwells on ceilings, walls, and floors. Touching it causes it to explode (does not destroy blocks, but damages player) If the player walks near one of the ceiling or wall-dwelling creatures, they will spit a few drops of acid at the player. (The mob will emit some "acid-colored" water particles and a non-source Acid liquid will collect where the drops hit.)
This Acid can be collected with any bucket, iron or gold, and can be used for a weaker alternative to Lava, which slowly damages mobs and degrades items instead of instantly destroying them, or a corrosive addition to Iron Swords (more damage, but less durability.) To defeat this pesky creature, simply whack it a few times after it has spat acid. Shooting it with a bow and arrow will still trigger the acid reflex.
Summary:
Mob Name: (???) Size: 1 block by 1 block Damage: Explosion does
Acid does / second Health: One hit with a diamond sword would kill it. If the creature hasn't spat acid in the past minute, its death would also trigger the attack. Rarity: Common in dungeons, medium-rarity in caverns Drops: None, its acid is essentially its drop.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I spent some time on this, so if you don't like the ideas, please say why and what you dislike about them, and what I could change to make it better.
Also, if you correctly guess what game inspired me for both of these suggestions, you win an overused virtual reward- a valuable mineral used in pickaxes, swords, and not much else, commonly found in layers 1-16.
Something that powerful, yet stationary, should ONLY be in dungeons as a "final guardian" type mob before getting to the treasure.
I also don't particularly like having any particular "acid block" though perhaps it could have some type of attack where it could have an attack that changed the weather effect inside of its room to acid rain?
My gut reaction is that it also sounds like it's going to be WAAAY too tedious to fight through its tentacles, unless those are much easier to hack through that I had originally been given the impression of.
Also, perhaps a Netherraze Tool, or Flint and Steel could be used to burn a tentacle once cut off to keep it from growing back.
You should also give better HP descriptions than just "4 hits with diamond" as that's very vague. 4 hits with diamond could mean 16 HP, which could also be only 4 shots with an iron sword, and only 2 minimally charged shots with the Blood Sword. If you mean 20 HP, that would be 5 hits with iron sword, and could be done in 3 uncharged hits of a Blood Sword, or in 2 heavily charged Blood Sword hits.
EDIT: With that said, Netheraze weapons having a 10% chance to ignite things is too small. Most mobs will die long before they are even ignited, given that most mobs die from 2-3 hits.... Chance has to be higher to make it worthwhile.
It's not like the effect should happen on EVERY single enemy you attack, but it probably could be raised to 20%, especially since most nether mobs have resistances to fire, so it would be more useful for overworld mobs.
Something that powerful, yet stationary, should ONLY be in dungeons as a "final guardian" type mob before getting to the treasure.
I also don't particularly like having any particular "acid block" though perhaps it could have some type of attack where it could have an attack that changed the weather effect inside of its room to acid rain?
I would still like to rarely see it in huge caverns (which are also very rare. Most caves in the Nether are not more than 20 blocks x 10 blocks.)
And yes, when it's in the dungeon, it would either be the last room, or the boss to fight before the last room (which wouldn't have much more than a puzzle or trap, not another boss fight.)
It's very hard to explain, but I imagine the acid liquid as the lowest height level of the water from this mod: viewtopic.php?f=1032&t=282152
watch a little bit into the video and you'll see the kind of liquid that I imagine.
Quote from GreyAcumen »
My gut reaction is that it also sounds like it's going to be WAAAY too tedious to fight through its tentacles, unless those are much easier to hack through that I had originally been given the impression of.
Also, perhaps a Netherraze Tool, or Flint and Steel could be used to burn a tentacle once cut off to keep it from growing back.
You can swing a sword about two times per second. This means that a skilled player who's able to avoid most tentacles can defeat a single tendril in about three seconds with an iron sword.
And yes, Flint and Steel / Netherraze should be effective, but it's only at the core that a few weaker tentacles grow back. As you make your way through the tangle of tendrils, once you kill them, they won't grow back.
Quote from GreyAcumen »
You should also give better HP descriptions than just "4 hits with diamond" as that's very vague. 4 hits with diamond could mean 16 HP, which could also be only 4 shots with an iron sword, and only 2 minimally charged shots with the Blood Sword. If you mean 20 HP, that would be 5 hits with iron sword, and could be done in 3 uncharged hits of a Blood Sword, or in 2 heavily charged Blood Sword hits.
Sorry, I don't have a great understanding of the enemy health system. If we're going with the assumption that a
Creeper or Zombie has 10 hearts or HP, then
Thin Tentacles would have 10 hearts
Large Tentacles would have 20 or 40 hearts
The core or center would have about 50 hearts.
Acid-spitting monsters would have 5-8 hearts.
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Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
The best I can think is it'd be able to make a Sunlight Mob killer, but that'd be far less efficient than even the things people have come up with now.
And the "grab broken blocks no matter what" seems fairly pointless to me. It's only useful when you know you're digging something out that's over a pit or lava. For everything else you're either going to be standing near it or the broken block will fall onto you.
The only part I find useful is the slowing of enemies.
There are plenty of times where even a block that you are right next to will break in a direction that doesn't go anywhere near you. It's also useful for digging pitfalls since you can dig down 3 or 4 blocks deep and not need to jump down into it to grab the blocks you mined out from it.
The other point it has is functioning as a secondary tier Nether Tool that can be gathered with a gold shovel that can be obtained from Zombie PIgmen, and crafted into a Soul Shovel which gives players access to Netherraze even if they don't have an iron or diamond shovel that they brought from the overworld, making the Nether more self sustainable.
Also, quick mockup of how they'd look: (the image on the right for making transparency more obvious)
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to bad
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Minecraft is for girls to...
Residue.
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The blight thing is cool, but i've been thinking.... The nether is mostly glowstone, netherrack, and soul sand. All of these are brittle materials and can be mined so easily... so why use Blood tools and Raze tools? Now, since both of them have halved durability in the overworld, that makes them a little bit useless. I know the swords and such will be useful, but as for other tools, it wouldn't be much useful (except for raze shovel and blood hoe maybe...) because they're both so rare.
Now soulglass tools would be quite nice, as netherrack is easily mined, so even the speed of a wooden pick would do, and soul sand is common, but the bones would be hard to acquire.... Maybe trolls drop 6-8 bones? If possible, it could vary on difficulty, easy: 6-8, medium: 4-5 hard:0-3.
But after thinking all of this, i could just get 2 stacks of cobblestone and 2 stacks of sticks, and that would be sufficient for a reasonably long stay in the nether...
Anyway, generally good ideas here :smile.gif:
Also, soul sand is good as suggested
Blood tier is the strongest damaging. Raze tools ignite enemies.
Both of those attributes carry over into the Overworld, but to balance their strengths they're only really good in the area that's focused around combat.
Plus you're forgetting about the introduction of Gloomwood, in what's in the Nether.
And IIRC Trolls, will drop 1~2 Big/Demon bones when killed. I don't think anything from the Overworld drops in the New Nether.
No those chests are similar to teases. There IS a "final chest" further into the dungeon but these are more of teases than anything else.
And there is a TON of Netherrack around. Moreso than stone. The more economical "fast smelt" is NetherRaze, but it can also be used as tool material so there's a tradeoff.
And you're thinking of how fast the FLAME would have to go. The arrow would take 4~5 seconds.
Think about it the same as Punching Stone. Except imagine that using a Wood pickax took 12 seconds to harvest it.
There isn't much to explain, unless you'd like to rephrase the question.
We did that.
Extensively.
Seriously, we did before this thread even went up we went back and forth, Grey and I, as to what should make the cut. Everything in this thread we can explain with reasoning that stands on either the mithos of the Nether we're trying to build or the abilities of the Overworld.
But please go through what you think is wrong and tell us.
Hell the current topic is because of other users talking about problems.
You forget that Netherrack is F-ing EVERYWHERE in the Nether and can be mined with ANY pick. That type of ratio is downright required to be balanced. Obviously netherrack burns forever, but that's not necessarily true when you're squeezing a faster burn rate out of it.
15 seconds. That's only for wood and stone. Obviously they're getting stuck in the Sticky Soul Sand and slowed by it so they can't mine it as fast. If you want a decent speed, use a gold, iron, or diamond shovel, or one of the Nether shovels.
If I said "uh, well" on any of these, they wouldn't be there.
there's also nothing wrong with reading carefully.
I always do.
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i dont like u
Okay, anyway, GreyAcumen and Sabata2, I need YOUR help in convincing a bunch of modders to convert from NetherUpdatism to New Netherism.
The outcome is the difference between this mod being made, and it not being made while a crappier topic is made.
They already seem to like all the mobs, but I lack enough reasoning to convince them about other things.
Here's the link.
viewtopic.php?f=1039&t=292613
And YES, they do plan on doing TNU 100%, unlike the Aether team.
Besides, this suggestion has only just started to get rolling. There's a lot of stuff that needs added yet.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
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But it's not an easy sell to convert people to the New Nether.
There's a lot of people out there who'd rather have new, and entirely useless, ores than none at all.
And because of that they'll NEVER prefer the New Nether to the Nether Update.
And on the side of the modders, TNU is a fair amount easier to implement because... it's more of the same. There's nothing drastically new in TNU so they can mod it in easily.
TNN, while being perfectly possible, would be a fair amount harder.
Brand (improve texture)
Salamander (improve texture)
Netherwurm (improve model and texture) maybe like:
Even if you don't like it so much, GreyAcumen, the difference is either it gets made, or not. At the click of an option.
Vote here for lazy people who can't read up a few posts -> viewtopic.php?f=1039&t=292613
Yes
No. Firehazurd's work is half the reason that mob was considered at all. It's perfect as is.
Your image doesn't work, and I actually like the Netherwurm as it is.
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Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
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1. A tendril-like entity which slowly grows. It has a maximum of 10 blocks wide for its base, but the tendrils can reach up to 30 blocks away. If the player finds a dungeon, marks it, and comes back a few days later, any creature like this would have grown significantly during that time.
To defeat it, you must battle its tendrils first (they fight back with quick, striking movements, possibly disarming you)
Occasionally, larger tentacles, a maximum of 3 per creature, will grow out of the core of the monster (think: mass of tentacles + Sarlaac.) These can reach up to 40 blocks away (keep in mind this is only through dungeon corridors or large caves, it doesn't go through walls or intrude into many other dungeon rooms.)
These will grab the player and begin dragging him towards the core, sometimes smashing him against the wall. If you've seen the video for the Aether Team's version of the Swet, which absorbs the player, it will be a similar battle to "break free."
If the player can't destroy the tentacle in time, he'll either be killed by being smashed against the wall or destroyed by the core.
To finally kill the nasty beast, you must destroy the core or center. (which may attempt to grow back small tentacles, that still attack but are very weak.)
Summary:
Mob Name: (Tendril Monster?)
Size: Grows, max 10 blocks
Damage: Tentacles do
Health: Small Tentacles take 2 hits with a diamond sword to destroy, Large Tentacles take 4 hits with a diamond sword to destroy, the core takes 6 hits with a diamond sword to destroy.
Rarity: Relatively rare in dungeons, medium-rarity in large caverns of the Nether, not found anywhere else.
Drops: One to three? Blood Gems. A boss monster of this size deserves a good reward.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. A small, round, immobile, sac-like monster which dwells on ceilings, walls, and floors. Touching it causes it to explode (does not destroy blocks, but damages player) If the player walks near one of the ceiling or wall-dwelling creatures, they will spit a few drops of acid at the player. (The mob will emit some "acid-colored" water particles and a non-source Acid liquid will collect where the drops hit.)
This Acid can be collected with any bucket, iron or gold, and can be used for a weaker alternative to Lava, which slowly damages mobs and degrades items instead of instantly destroying them, or a corrosive addition to Iron Swords (more damage, but less durability.) To defeat this pesky creature, simply whack it a few times after it has spat acid. Shooting it with a bow and arrow will still trigger the acid reflex.
Summary:
Mob Name: (???)
Size: 1 block by 1 block
Damage: Explosion does
Acid does
Health: One hit with a diamond sword would kill it. If the creature hasn't spat acid in the past minute, its death would also trigger the attack.
Rarity: Common in dungeons, medium-rarity in caverns
Drops: None, its acid is essentially its drop.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I spent some time on this, so if you don't like the ideas, please say why and what you dislike about them, and what I could change to make it better.
Also, if you correctly guess what game inspired me for both of these suggestions, you win an overused virtual reward- a valuable mineral used in pickaxes, swords, and not much else, commonly found in layers 1-16.
I also don't particularly like having any particular "acid block" though perhaps it could have some type of attack where it could have an attack that changed the weather effect inside of its room to acid rain?
My gut reaction is that it also sounds like it's going to be WAAAY too tedious to fight through its tentacles, unless those are much easier to hack through that I had originally been given the impression of.
Also, perhaps a Netherraze Tool, or Flint and Steel could be used to burn a tentacle once cut off to keep it from growing back.
You should also give better HP descriptions than just "4 hits with diamond" as that's very vague. 4 hits with diamond could mean 16 HP, which could also be only 4 shots with an iron sword, and only 2 minimally charged shots with the Blood Sword. If you mean 20 HP, that would be 5 hits with iron sword, and could be done in 3 uncharged hits of a Blood Sword, or in 2 heavily charged Blood Sword hits.
It's not like the effect should happen on EVERY single enemy you attack, but it probably could be raised to 20%, especially since most nether mobs have resistances to fire, so it would be more useful for overworld mobs.
PLEASE ALSO SUPPORT:
Sabata & Grey Acumen's "New Nether"
Grey Acumen's Minecraft 2.0 Suggestion Series
I would still like to rarely see it in huge caverns (which are also very rare. Most caves in the Nether are not more than 20 blocks x 10 blocks.)
And yes, when it's in the dungeon, it would either be the last room, or the boss to fight before the last room (which wouldn't have much more than a puzzle or trap, not another boss fight.)
It's very hard to explain, but I imagine the acid liquid as the lowest height level of the water from this mod:
viewtopic.php?f=1032&t=282152
watch a little bit into the video and you'll see the kind of liquid that I imagine.
You can swing a sword about two times per second. This means that a skilled player who's able to avoid most tentacles can defeat a single tendril in about three seconds with an iron sword.
And yes, Flint and Steel / Netherraze should be effective, but it's only at the core that a few weaker tentacles grow back. As you make your way through the tangle of tendrils, once you kill them, they won't grow back.
Sorry, I don't have a great understanding of the enemy health system. If we're going with the assumption that a
Creeper or Zombie has 10 hearts or HP, then
Thin Tentacles would have 10 hearts
Large Tentacles would have 20 or 40 hearts
The core or center would have about 50 hearts.
Acid-spitting monsters would have 5-8 hearts.