I think you don't realize the intent of getting Netherite at all.
It is meant to be the late-game tier that the player is supposed to spend a lot of effort and time on with a great deal of patience and quite a lot of risk involved.
Oh, and don't compare it to Elytra, it is utility object that on purpose cannot be combined with chestplates.
If we are to have any armor like endium, it should be an utility/specialist one that shouldn't match Netherite even remotely in brute force tactics.
As of grindstone, it's Villager job block, and is pretty good for builds, like chain reels, or so-called yeeters.
"the late game tier" is not just farming gold ingots and ancient debris, it also involves enchanting, wich takes most of the time.
Upgrading to netherite alone is easy.
Edit:
This may sound stupid but netherite doesn't feel like late game tier at all.
With the nether update we got netherite tier, wich doesn't burn as item laying on the ground ect.
-Gold Armor
Is now a "good manner" tier while you sociolize with piglins.
-Leather Armor
Will keep you warm with caves and cliffs
-Turtle Helmet
Seems to become a relict becouse of netherite from my experience but it has a unique effect
I think you don't realize the intent of getting Netherite at all.
It is meant to be the late-game tier that the player is supposed to spend a lot of effort and time on with a great deal of patience and quite a lot of risk involved.
Oh, and don't compare it to Elytra, it is utility object that on purpose cannot be combined with chestplates.
If we are to have any armor like endium, it should be an utility/specialist one that shouldn't match Netherite even remotely in brute force tactics.
As of grindstone, it's Villager job block, and is pretty good for builds, like chain reels, or so-called yeeters.
and it is not a farmable/renewable resource, netherite is a rare item found only inside the nether. But in this case it does make sense because it is a more durable material than diamonds, it should be rare for what it is, although I think something needs to be done to nerf beds to stop them being abusable for absurdly cheap ancient debris mining.
There are some ideas I agree with others including TMC on and some I do not, I do agree with getting rid of automated farms, but in place of them there should be ways to farm resources and XP manually in my view and most of the resources in the game do need to be renewable to reduce biome entropy. Also it has to be acknowledged that iron isn't just used for tools and armour, plenty of people are using them for ambitious builds in the game.
The problem with resources that are mined underground is once they're used up, unless their related materials are spent on permanent blocks (such as diamond for jukebox) they're gone forever, there is no replacement for them and without mending and villager trades you will find yourself going through diamonds very quickly, making profiteering on your diamond mining almost impossible, not completely, but close. I accept the current mechanics for diamonds because it is supposed to be be a rare item, but not for things like redstone or iron because these materials have too much versatility to safely make less common without it ruining the game. At the very least introduce a different mode for the game for people who have a different opinion and want every resource to be made a lot harder to gather.
and it is not a farmable/renewable resource, netherite is a rare item found only inside the nether. But in this case it does make sense because it is a more durable material than diamonds, it should be rare for what it is, although I think something needs to be done to nerf beds to stop them being abusable for absurdly cheap ancient debris mining.
How is the bed bombing method cheap?
There are quite a few videos about bedbombing vs pickaxe.
I can't say wich method is better but i don't like bed bombing becouse i'm too lazy to chop wood,
shear sheeps and stop over and over to craft more beds. I just run through the netherreck with efficiency 5.
That's fast enough for me.
Bedbombing the dragon, that's cheap imo.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
What is with everyone suggesting extra tiers of things just for the sake of having them..?
I think there should be a new ore added to the End, stronger and rarer than Netherite. I think the Enderite mod by pitti11 is a good example of a good color scheme for it. However some things such as the name for "Enderite" I dislike. Here is a simple list of stats I would suggest, compared to Netherite. (Netherite info from Minecraft Wiki.)
There's not even a reason provided for this. We just have "I think there should be a new ore" with nothing else.
without mending and villager trades you will find yourself going through diamonds very quickly, making profiteering on your diamond mining almost impossible, not completely, but close.
I beg to differ - my caving is far from the most effective way to mine diamonds, with about 269 blocks mined per diamond ore mined, without Fortune, yet I find many times what I'd need to maintain all my gear - and you can find far more diamond by actually searching for it, not just mining everything in sight, and if branch-mining, without taking damage from mobs (thus having to maintain weapons and armor), which can also yield as much as one diamond ore per 59 blocks mined, and with Fortune, one diamond per 27 blocks - a diamond pickaxe with Unbreaking III effectively has 6248 uses for a net gain of 231 diamonds per item repair (or 77 diamonds per diamond needed to repair it. For unit repairs, the only practical way to repair a maxed-out Fortune pickaxe prior to 1.8, the gain is about 58 diamonds per diamond needed).
This says it all:
True, I did use Fortune to mine some of that (for the first 4-5 months out of more than 3 years of caving), and currently get all the diamond gear I need for repairs from trading (which is only done for fun, I didn't trade for the first couple years I played) but calculations show I'd very easily find enough to maintain my gear with a margin of about 5:1, 10:1 if Fortune is used.
That also doesn't even considering everything else - I have the equivalent of more than 1.5 million coal and 600,000 iron stored as blocks, and more than 3 million resources in total:
Each corridor has 16 double chests and is capable of storing 55,296 blocks or 497,664 resources as blocks (plus 32 more blocks containing 288 resources in the floor), with 3 completely filled with coal and another filled with iron, plus another 62,000 or so iron in the form of rails from abandoned mineshafts (this would be my largest single use of iron by far if I had to craft them, with around 20,000 rails used in my rail network, but that is only 7,500 iron, or what I collect in 10 average play sessions):
Note that some of these statistics are misleading; I've used more diamonds than indicated to repair my sword since I only started crafting swords after I found it was possible to use slightly damaged swords to fully repair it instead of individual diamonds; conversely, I currently go through shears at a slower rate than indicated since I started using Silk Touch shears with Unbreaking to collect cobwebs from cave spider spawners (previously I used unenchanted shears to collect string). Iron pickaxes are still being "crafted" and used since I take them from minecarts and enchant/combine them to higher levels for use in digging tunnels for new railways (like trading, etc this is entirely optional, the cost of mining 2-3000 blocks for a new rail extension and base is less than an average play session spent caving, with each base being used for about 2 months on average):
It is hard to imagine any player using that many resources - I could play for the rest of my life, only using these resources, and never use up all the iron I've collected (excluding the iron gear I made early on I've crafted around 100 anvils (3100 iron), plus 100 or so shears (200 iron) and a couple hundred or so trapped chests (100 iron for tripwire hooks) in more than 3 years of daily playing - it would take centuries to use it all up, and 3 decades to use up all the rails I've collected, assuming I don't use the Nether as I go further and further out (I've currently explored the equivalent of a 5300x5300 block area; 10 times the area would be 16760x16760, and I'd likely need to find a new continent long before then which would likely be much further away if I don't want to spend years exploring nothing but ocean; of course, this would not be an issue in modern versions).
Also, this is only exposed ores and anything hidden behind them mined from the walls of caves, which are only a fraction of all the ores in a chunk (the number of rails I've collected would be closest to the total that originally existed).
I don't really see a need for a more powerful set of tools- but there could still be more types of armor added with different profficencies. In the same way that diamond armor can be upgraded into netherite using the smithing table, perhaps gold armor could be upgraded into a quartz variant that is weaker but can be enchanted even more effectively; and iron armor could be upgraded with copper into a reinforced type of armor that offers more protection at the expense of durability. (These are just some general ideas.) I'd appreciate more options for advancement, rather than just more advancement in general.
I don't really see a need for a more powerful set of tools- but there could still be more types of armor added with different profficencies. In the same way that diamond armor can be upgraded into netherite using the smithing table, perhaps gold armor could be upgraded into a quartz variant that is weaker but can be enchanted even more effectively; and iron armor could be upgraded with copper into a reinforced type of armor that offers more protection at the expense of durability. (These are just some general ideas.) I'd appreciate more options for advancement, rather than just more advancement in general.
I would like to see more turtle armor but at the moment there would be no special use for it.
Increasing respiration would downgrade brewing (and fishing).
Increasing the mobility could be catastrophal. Whe can already swim super fast with dolphins.
But i agree, i'd like armor to become more diverse then now. I hope chainmail gets some changes next.
Iron armor feels like the basic armor to me, i wouldn't change that one for now.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
I beg to differ - my caving is far from the most effective way to mine diamonds, with about 269 blocks mined per diamond ore mined, without Fortune, yet I find many times what I'd need to maintain all my gear - and you can find far more diamond by actually searching for it, not just mining everything in sight, and if branch-mining, without taking damage from mobs (thus having to maintain weapons and armor), which can also yield as much as one diamond ore per 59 blocks mined, and with Fortune, one diamond per 27 blocks - a diamond pickaxe with Unbreaking III effectively has 6248 uses for a net gain of 231 diamonds per item repair (or 77 diamonds per diamond needed to repair it. For unit repairs, the only practical way to repair a maxed-out Fortune pickaxe prior to 1.8, the gain is about 58 diamonds per diamond needed).
This says it all:
True, I did use Fortune to mine some of that (for the first 4-5 months out of more than 3 years of caving), and currently get all the diamond gear I need for repairs from trading (which is only done for fun, I didn't trade for the first couple years I played) but calculations show I'd very easily find enough to maintain my gear with a margin of about 5:1, 10:1 if Fortune is used.
That also doesn't even considering everything else - I have the equivalent of more than 1.5 million coal and 600,000 iron stored as blocks, and more than 3 million resources in total:
Each corridor has 16 double chests and is capable of storing 55,296 blocks or 497,664 resources as blocks (plus 32 more blocks containing 288 resources in the floor), with 3 completely filled with coal and another filled with iron, plus another 62,000 or so iron in the form of rails from abandoned mineshafts (this would be my largest single use of iron by far if I had to craft them, with around 20,000 rails used in my rail network, but that is only 7,500 iron, or what I collect in 10 average play sessions):
Note that some of these statistics are misleading; I've used more diamonds than indicated to repair my sword since I only started crafting swords after I found it was possible to use slightly damaged swords to fully repair it instead of individual diamonds; conversely, I currently go through shears at a slower rate than indicated since I started using Silk Touch shears with Unbreaking to collect cobwebs from cave spider spawners (previously I used unenchanted shears to collect string). Iron pickaxes are still being "crafted" and used since I take them from minecarts and enchant/combine them to higher levels for use in digging tunnels for new railways (like trading, etc this is entirely optional, the cost of mining 2-3000 blocks for a new rail extension and base is less than an average play session spent caving, with each base being used for about 2 months on average):
It is hard to imagine any player using that many resources - I could play for the rest of my life, only using these resources, and never use up all the iron I've collected (excluding the iron gear I made early on I've crafted around 100 anvils (3100 iron), plus 100 or so shears (200 iron) and a couple hundred or so trapped chests (100 iron for tripwire hooks) in more than 3 years of daily playing - it would take centuries to use it all up, and 3 decades to use up all the rails I've collected, assuming I don't use the Nether as I go further and further out (I've currently explored the equivalent of a 5300x5300 block area; 10 times the area would be 16760x16760, and I'd likely need to find a new continent long before then which would likely be much further away if I don't want to spend years exploring nothing but ocean; of course, this would not be an issue in modern versions).
Also, this is only exposed ores and anything hidden behind them mined from the walls of caves, which are only a fraction of all the ores in a chunk (the number of rails I've collected would be closest to the total that originally existed).
You're talking about work that took you by your own admission 3 years, some of which was done with a Fortune pickaxe within the first 5 months. You're talking about something which literally took you almost a 10th of the average human life expectancy, and in old age we may lose our ability to remain competent enough to play video games due to diseases like dementia.
You basically confirmed my point, that without mending and villager trades, acquiring large amounts of diamonds would become a near limitless grind.
You haven't even filled 1 double chest completely of your diamond blocks and it already took you that long with that version and with the style you play.
I don't know about you, but if mending and villager trades were nerfed to the point where I couldn't repair my armour and tools indefinitely, I'd lose the incentive to mine for diamonds and I would instead mine more common materials like iron since that would be much more efficient. We are already dealt a heavy penalty for losing items in lava, fire or the void, which teaches us to be responsible with our equipment and that I am fully okay with. What I don't want is resources to become too inefficient to be useful.
You basically confirmed my point, that without mending and villager trades, acquiring large amounts of diamonds would become a near limitless grind.
Apparently, you missed my point about how quickly you can find diamonds by branch-mining, as opposed to caving, which is incredibly inefficient - only about 4 diamonds per hour - compared to over 100 with an effective branch-mining strategy and Fortune III:
A good efficiency is reached at a spacing of around 6 blocks (that is, 6 solid blocks left in-between the tunnels). At this spacing, efficiency is about 0.017, corresponding to 1.7% of blocks removed being a diamond.
Assuming you mine an average of one block per second, which is easily attainable with enchanted tools (even an unenchanted stone pickaxe takes less than a second to mine stone, including a 0.25 second delay added between consecutive blocks), you can average about 61 diamond ore per hour (3600 * 1.7%), 135 diamonds with Fortune III - or around 33 times the rate at which I've collected diamonds over the entire time I've spent playing on my first world, including time not spent caving (15,372 diamonds over 3,725 hours, average 4.1 diamond per hour; when only counting time spent caving I averaged slightly more, 4.3 per hour over 13 play sessions, which still makes my caving 31 times worse than optimal branch-mining).
In other words, you could mine all the diamonds I've collected in an estimated 3,500 hours of caving in only 114 hours if you mined them efficiently; the 1,731 diamonds I've used to repair my pickaxe could be mined in about 13 hours - or only about 0.37% of the time I've been using it. Absolutely no reason why spending just 1% of your playtime on mining diamonds (generously accounting for other gear) is game-breaking or makes them too hard to collect in a game whose very name includes mining.
This also underscores the fact that I do not cave to get resources I need - I do it solely for fun and actually branch-mine myself to get what I need early on, where it only takes a few hours to find what I need, even with TMCW's much rarer amethyst (over that time I found 22 amethyst and 91 diamond ore, the latter about half the rate claimed by the Wiki but I used a tunnel spacing, 3 blocks, which is said to yield about half as many blocks being diamond, and the floor was solid bedrock, reducing efficiency by 1/6. Either way, I have no idea what you are doing to consume diamonds far faster than it would be practical to mine them, even a 10:1 profit still means you only need to spend 10% of your time mining).
Fun fact, I once actually got a comment about why I don't cave since somebody apparently only read the first post in a thread on one of my worlds, which mentioned why I branch-mine and avoid caving at the start of start of a new world (resources are only one factor, I also want to save it for the end-game):
Apparently, you missed my point about how quickly you can find diamonds by branch-mining, as opposed to caving, which is incredibly inefficient - only about 4 diamonds per hour - compared to over 100 with an effective branch-mining strategy and Fortune III:
Assuming you mine an average of one block per second, which is easily attainable with enchanted tools (even an unenchanted stone pickaxe takes less than a second to mine stone, including a 0.25 second delay added between consecutive blocks), you can average about 61 diamond ore per hour (3600 * 1.7%), 135 diamonds with Fortune III - or around 33 times the rate at which I've collected diamonds over the entire time I've spent playing on my first world, including time not spent caving (15,372 diamonds over 3,725 hours, average 4.1 diamond per hour; when only counting time spent caving I averaged slightly more, 4.3 per hour over 13 play sessions, which still makes my caving 31 times worse than optimal branch-mining).
In other words, you could mine all the diamonds I've collected in an estimated 3,500 hours of caving in only 114 hours if you mined them efficiently; the 1,731 diamonds I've used to repair my pickaxe could be mined in about 13 hours - or only about 0.37% of the time I've been using it. Absolutely no reason why spending just 1% of your playtime on mining diamonds (generously accounting for other gear) is game-breaking or makes them too hard to collect in a game whose very name includes mining.
This also underscores the fact that I do not cave to get resources I need - I do it solely for fun and actually branch-mine myself to get what I need early on, where it only takes a few hours to find what I need, even with TMCW's much rarer amethyst (over that time I found 22 amethyst and 91 diamond ore, the latter about half the rate claimed by the Wiki but I used a tunnel spacing, 3 blocks, which is said to yield about half as many blocks being diamond, and the floor was solid bedrock, reducing efficiency by 1/6. Either way, I have no idea what you are doing to consume diamonds far faster than it would be practical to mine them, even a 10:1 profit still means you only need to spend 10% of your time mining).
Fun fact, I once actually got a comment about why I don't cave since somebody apparently only read the first post in a thread on one of my worlds, which mentioned why I branch-mine and avoid caving at the start of start of a new world (resources are only one factor, I also want to save it for the end-game):
Farming is also a part of the game too, this is evidenced by the fact that trading exists in the game to serve as an alternate method to get important gear. This also gives crops another reason to exist in the game besides just providing you with unlimited and generous amounts of food. If you could trade a surplus stack of wheat for an emerald or two, why wouldn't you? you're getting a good deal so there's no logical reason to turn your nose up at the offer.
emeralds also serve as the in-game currency which can get you anything from tools, armour to compasses or shears etc.
Not everyone has a lot of friends to play with so for people with only 2 or 3 people on their worlds at any given time, their options for trading materials are already going to be quite limited as it is, why punish them by removing farmable resources from the game?
I've come to accept the motion to remove AFK farms, but not manual ones that require a lot of time and patience to put into action to get a decent amount of valuable resources, I do think players should be rewarded for building huge surpluses of crop based farms by having them tradeable with the villagers, without that the villagers would have no good reason to exist, in fact before the trades villagers were absolutely useless and were a major criticism people had for the game at the time.
If villagers didn't have trades I wanted I would simply kill them off to be frank with you, because they are dead weight and since they are non sentient beings I have no reason to have empathy for them, they're just bits of code taking up space in a virtual world made up of blocks.
I've seen other people in this thread having pretty much the same take as me on this, but another tier of tools would just be completely redundant. I would definitely be okay with another 6th tier resource, and this is an idea that I've actually thought about for a bit. Enderite sounds good, and to me it would just be able to make armor that is just as good as diamond (not netherite), but the armor has a special bonus that it gives you a 2.5% speed boost for every piece of the armor you wear. It would also have a little more durability on tools and armor, as it is. It think a sort of rose-gold color would look nice for it and it would be a good way to still give it a unique color while not deviating from the End color palate.
I've seen other people in this thread having pretty much the same take as me on this, but another tier of tools would just be completely redundant. I would definitely be okay with another 6th tier resource, and this is an idea that I've actually thought about for a bit. Enderite sounds good, and to me it would just be able to make armor that is just as good as diamond (not netherite), but the armor has a special bonus that it gives you a 2.5% speed boost for every piece of the armor you wear. It would also have a little more durability on tools and armor, as it is. It think a sort of rose-gold color would look nice for it and it would be a good way to still give it a unique color while not deviating from the End color palate.
If they make another tier of tools and armour then it should be a non farmable ultra rare in my opinion, diamond tools and armour are already infinitely farmable from villager trades which to some may seem overpowered. I'm not so sure I can agree with that given the amount of emeralds you'd spend per item and some of us would like to collect the emeralds for collectable sake or use them for aesthetics on our builds, everyone's playstyle is different.
For people who are only into pure survival, caving etc, yes I could see why people would say it is OP because it means you reach a point where you never have to mine for diamonds to make your top tier overworld tools. However if people do more than just battle monsters and mining, and are into building cities, you'd be surprised how quick resources get spent and mining just isn't enough.
It took TheMasterCaver all that time just to fill up one double chest with diamond blocks, and that's not a grind I wish to take part in because me and friends on my server do more than caving and battling monsters. More years wasted on grinding for resources would just get in the way of things we'd like to do with our time.
I do agree that there should be another tier tool, although it is not needed, I could see the appeal and why people would want it, and having it as an ultra non farmable rare that is more powerful than netherite would give players more things to do in the game instead of complaining about how unbalanced the game is on the forums.
Perhaps Mojang could add a new, 4th dimension with even tougher mobs and bosses for them to fight with the newer gear they've earned, I don't really care as long as it doesn't interfere with the playstyles of people who don't want those things.
It took TheMasterCaver all that time just to fill up one double chest with diamond blocks, and that's not a grind I wish to take part in because me and friends on my server do more than caving and battling monsters. More years wasted on grinding for resources would just get in the way of things we'd like to do with our time.
Again, I only find an average of about 4.1 diamonds per hour spent caving - truly, utterly awful compared to a good branch-mining technique, which can yield a stack per hour, two stacks if you use Fortune - that's about 32 times the rate at which I collect diamonds! Even then, I only need about 20% of the diamonds that I collect (if I didn't trade), and of course, 1.9 made it so resources are utterly irrelevant anyway.
In fact, here is proof of how quickly you can collect diamonds - they mined 854 diamonds in 12 hours, a rate of 71 per hour, and they simply mined out a huge area, far from the most efficient way to mine:
(skip to 12:12 to see how many diamonds they collected)
Somebody else claims that they can get 120 ores or 264 diamonds per hour with Fortune III using a beacon and presumably a more efficient mining strategy - that's about 64 times the rate at which I collect them!
ilmango 3 points · 2 years ago I don't agree with your conclusion. From own experience with multiple one hour tests, beacon mining yields around 120 ores per hour, which is far superior to this method.
Again, most players don't come even close to the optimum efficiency as they space their tunnels too close together, or even just clear a large area, as Mumbo did - the chart shown below doesn't show a spacing of 0 but a spacing of 1 only yields an efficiency of about 0.003, less than 1/6 of the optimum spacing, so they could have mined 6 times as many diamonds for the same number of blocks mined. Many players use a spacing of 2, which only gets about 1/3 of the optimal efficiency:
A good efficiency is reached at a spacing of around 6 blocks (that is, 6 solid blocks left in-between the tunnels). At this spacing, efficiency is about 0.017, corresponding to 1.7% of blocks removed being a diamond.
Fun fact: this chart is from 2012, meaning that it is only accurate for versions up to 1.6.4, with slightly less accuracy up to 1.7.10 - in 1.8 they increased the abundance of diamond by about 20% so multiply all the values by 1.2 for current versions (e.g. 1 block mined per second * 0.017 being diamond ore = 61.2 ore per hour, 1.8 and later = 73.44 ore per hour)
For yet another example of just how awful I am at finding diamond, people have found far more diamond per hour while caving - in 1.7 and later!
On average, a 20-minute match consisting of 3 players in a good cave system will yield a total of 30 diamond ore, 40 lapis ore, 80 gold ore, 200 redstone ore, and 300 iron ore. [or the hourly rates for one player]
This underscores the fact that I don't just look for diamond; I thoroughly explore everything underground, regardless of its altitude - I've even occasionally found no diamond at all over an entire 3-4 hour play session since few of the caves I was exploring went deep enough. Actually, even my iron collection rate is less than claimed above for competitive caving, 200 vs 300 per hour for one player, though I did collect much more when I once played in 1.9 just to see how effective Mending was; 1.6.4 cave systems may be far larger but they have less ores exposed for a given volume/length of caves, plus I do mine all coal, which isn't even counted.
Again, I only find an average of about 4.1 diamonds per hour spent caving - truly, utterly awful compared to a good branch-mining technique, which can yield a stack per hour, two stacks if you use Fortune - that's about 32 times the rate at which I collect diamonds! Even then, I only need about 20% of the diamonds that I collect (if I didn't trade), and of course, 1.9 made it so resources are utterly irrelevant anyway.
In fact, here is proof of how quickly you can collect diamonds - they mined 854 diamonds in 12 hours, a rate of 71 per hour, and they simply mined out a huge area, far from the most efficient way to mine:
(skip to 12:12 to see how many diamonds they collected)
Somebody else claims that they can get 120 ores or 264 diamonds per hour with Fortune III using a beacon and presumably a more efficient mining strategy - that's about 64 times the rate at which I collect them!
Again, most players don't come even close to the optimum efficiency as they space their tunnels too close together, or even just clear a large area, as Mumbo did - the chart shown below doesn't show a spacing of 0 but a spacing of 1 only yields an efficiency of about 0.003, less than 1/6 of the optimum spacing, so they could have mined 6 times as many diamonds for the same number of blocks mined. Many players use a spacing of 2, which only gets about 1/3 of the optimal efficiency:
Fun fact: this chart is from 2012, meaning that it is only accurate for versions up to 1.6.4, with slightly less accuracy up to 1.7.10 - in 1.8 they increased the abundance of diamond by about 20% so multiply all the values by 1.2 for current versions (e.g. 1 block mined per second * 0.017 being diamond ore = 61.2 ore per hour, 1.8 and later = 73.44 ore per hour)
For yet another example of just how awful I am at finding diamond, people have found far more diamond per hour while caving - in 1.7 and later!
This underscores the fact that I don't just look for diamond; I thoroughly explore everything underground, regardless of its altitude - I've even occasionally found no diamond at all over an entire 3-4 hour play session since few of the caves I was exploring went deep enough. Actually, even my iron collection rate is less than claimed above for competitive caving, 200 vs 300 per hour for one player, though I did collect much more when I once played in 1.9 just to see how effective Mending was; 1.6.4 cave systems may be far larger but they have less ores exposed for a given volume/length of caves, plus I do mine all coal, which isn't even counted.
Most people are not going to be pro miners in the game, this is an unavoidable fact. I get that using Fortune III enchantment would increase the rate of diamond gathering but that is to be expected.
I'm still not comfortable with the idea of diamond tools and armour being removed from trades, I'd be okay with them costing more emeralds than they do now to encourage more mining, but to remove the currently renewable items from trades would be a total nuisance and would discourage me and friends on my server from playing altogether.
Perhaps it is possible to mine diamonds at 32 times the rate of the way you do it using enchantments, (although you did admit to using Fortune in the first 5 months out of the 3 years of your mining sessions) I'm not an expert on that. But what I do know is I don't want to waste a 10th of my lifetime on mining just 1 material. Repetition becomes boring after a while, it's also artificial difficulty, not a true challenge, there's a huge difference.
The addition of netherite is a decent tradeoff instead of making current materials in the game more grindy than they already are. A stronger set of tools and armour can be made but you also take a huge risk by going into a more dangerous dimension to get it. An ultra rare End item being added to the game for tools and armour would be nice as well, it would give people something else to work towards.
Perhaps it is possible to mine diamonds at 32 times the rate of the way you do it using enchantments, (although you did admit to using Fortune in the first 5 months out of the 3 years of your mining sessions) I'm not an expert on that. But what I do know is I don't want to waste a 10th of my lifetime on mining just 1 material. Repetition becomes boring after a while, it's also artificial difficulty, not a true challenge, there's a huge difference.
Fortune is completely irrelevant as I also looked at raw ore collected over time, not diamonds per hour, which is closer to 4.6 when subtracting what I used before I started trading and adding diamonds from mineshaft chests. Also, how many people are ever going to use 15,000 diamonds? Depending on the tools and enchantments you use that is capable of mining 7.8 to 93 million blocks (the lowest figure is pickaxes/axes without Unbreaking - even then the diamonds I've collected could have mined twice as much as I have - while the highest is shovels with Unbreaking III)! Also, "3 years" means 3 years of playing for a few hours per day, which adds up to only a few months of 24/7 gameplay (this is not even half my potential as I will have been playing for 8 years in a few months, but a lot of it has been spent on other worlds). Then there is the fact that Mending makes it completely irrelevant anyway, and I never heard of people complaining about resource availability before it was added; it is quite hard to imagine that anybody is going to get a worse efficiency than I do (unless they play as I do, then collecting resources is not on their mind).
Fortune is completely irrelevant as I also looked at raw ore collected over time, not diamonds per hour, which is closer to 4.6 when subtracting what I used before I started trading and adding diamonds from mineshaft chests. Also, how many people are ever going to use 15,000 diamonds? Depending on the tools and enchantments you use that is capable of mining 7.8 to 93 million blocks (the lowest figure is pickaxes/axes without Unbreaking - even then the diamonds I've collected could have mined twice as much as I have - while the highest is shovels with Unbreaking III)! Also, "3 years" means 3 years of playing for a few hours per day, which adds up to only a few months of 24/7 gameplay (this is not even half my potential as I will have been playing for 8 years in a few months, but a lot of it has been spent on other worlds). Then there is the fact that Mending makes it completely irrelevant anyway, and I never heard of people complaining about resource availability before it was added; it is quite hard to imagine that anybody is going to get a worse efficiency than I do (unless they play as I do, then collecting resources is not on their mind).
it strictly depends on what the resources are used for.
And making beacons out of diamond blocks is very costly as it should be given the fact they give you stat buffs when used nearby.
But there's also a lot of aesthetics that could require diamond blocks, such as large temples with diamond block flooring if somebody wants that sort of thing, then imagine a dozen or 100+ players all doing this on the same server. I don't want a situation where people end up fighting over resources because on non anarchy servers it is not something I'd wish to contend with, I don't want to police it and neither do the people I play with who are trustworthy enough not to grief builds to start with.
The point is Minecraft isn't just about combat and mining and I don't see why people should be forced to go on creative mode which is essentially cheating just to get an abundance of a material. People aren't complaining yet because the resources in the game aren't too rare, but if an update changed that then I can guarantee you there will be numerous people complaining about it and would likely end up playing older versions of the game in either the Java launcher or the legacy console editions of the game on PS4 and Xbox One to make up for an update that ruined the availability of resources that they relied on to do ambitious builds.
"the late game tier" is not just farming gold ingots and ancient debris, it also involves enchanting, wich takes most of the time.
Upgrading to netherite alone is easy.
Edit:
This may sound stupid but netherite doesn't feel like late game tier at all.
With the nether update we got netherite tier, wich doesn't burn as item laying on the ground ect.
-Gold Armor
Is now a "good manner" tier while you sociolize with piglins.
-Leather Armor
Will keep you warm with caves and cliffs
-Turtle Helmet
Seems to become a relict becouse of netherite from my experience but it has a unique effect
-Iron armor
Is basic equipment imo
-Chainmail armor
Why does this still exist? It has no pros at all.
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
and it is not a farmable/renewable resource, netherite is a rare item found only inside the nether. But in this case it does make sense because it is a more durable material than diamonds, it should be rare for what it is, although I think something needs to be done to nerf beds to stop them being abusable for absurdly cheap ancient debris mining.
There are some ideas I agree with others including TMC on and some I do not, I do agree with getting rid of automated farms, but in place of them there should be ways to farm resources and XP manually in my view and most of the resources in the game do need to be renewable to reduce biome entropy. Also it has to be acknowledged that iron isn't just used for tools and armour, plenty of people are using them for ambitious builds in the game.
The problem with resources that are mined underground is once they're used up, unless their related materials are spent on permanent blocks (such as diamond for jukebox) they're gone forever, there is no replacement for them and without mending and villager trades you will find yourself going through diamonds very quickly, making profiteering on your diamond mining almost impossible, not completely, but close. I accept the current mechanics for diamonds because it is supposed to be be a rare item, but not for things like redstone or iron because these materials have too much versatility to safely make less common without it ruining the game. At the very least introduce a different mode for the game for people who have a different opinion and want every resource to be made a lot harder to gather.
How is the bed bombing method cheap?
There are quite a few videos about bedbombing vs pickaxe.
I can't say wich method is better but i don't like bed bombing becouse i'm too lazy to chop wood,
shear sheeps and stop over and over to craft more beds. I just run through the netherreck with efficiency 5.
That's fast enough for me.
Bedbombing the dragon, that's cheap imo.
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
What is with everyone suggesting extra tiers of things just for the sake of having them..?
There's not even a reason provided for this. We just have "I think there should be a new ore" with nothing else.
I beg to differ - my caving is far from the most effective way to mine diamonds, with about 269 blocks mined per diamond ore mined, without Fortune, yet I find many times what I'd need to maintain all my gear - and you can find far more diamond by actually searching for it, not just mining everything in sight, and if branch-mining, without taking damage from mobs (thus having to maintain weapons and armor), which can also yield as much as one diamond ore per 59 blocks mined, and with Fortune, one diamond per 27 blocks - a diamond pickaxe with Unbreaking III effectively has 6248 uses for a net gain of 231 diamonds per item repair (or 77 diamonds per diamond needed to repair it. For unit repairs, the only practical way to repair a maxed-out Fortune pickaxe prior to 1.8, the gain is about 58 diamonds per diamond needed).
This says it all:
True, I did use Fortune to mine some of that (for the first 4-5 months out of more than 3 years of caving), and currently get all the diamond gear I need for repairs from trading (which is only done for fun, I didn't trade for the first couple years I played) but calculations show I'd very easily find enough to maintain my gear with a margin of about 5:1, 10:1 if Fortune is used.
That also doesn't even considering everything else - I have the equivalent of more than 1.5 million coal and 600,000 iron stored as blocks, and more than 3 million resources in total:
Note that some of these statistics are misleading; I've used more diamonds than indicated to repair my sword since I only started crafting swords after I found it was possible to use slightly damaged swords to fully repair it instead of individual diamonds; conversely, I currently go through shears at a slower rate than indicated since I started using Silk Touch shears with Unbreaking to collect cobwebs from cave spider spawners (previously I used unenchanted shears to collect string). Iron pickaxes are still being "crafted" and used since I take them from minecarts and enchant/combine them to higher levels for use in digging tunnels for new railways (like trading, etc this is entirely optional, the cost of mining 2-3000 blocks for a new rail extension and base is less than an average play session spent caving, with each base being used for about 2 months on average):
It is hard to imagine any player using that many resources - I could play for the rest of my life, only using these resources, and never use up all the iron I've collected (excluding the iron gear I made early on I've crafted around 100 anvils (3100 iron), plus 100 or so shears (200 iron) and a couple hundred or so trapped chests (100 iron for tripwire hooks) in more than 3 years of daily playing - it would take centuries to use it all up, and 3 decades to use up all the rails I've collected, assuming I don't use the Nether as I go further and further out (I've currently explored the equivalent of a 5300x5300 block area; 10 times the area would be 16760x16760, and I'd likely need to find a new continent long before then which would likely be much further away if I don't want to spend years exploring nothing but ocean; of course, this would not be an issue in modern versions).
Also, this is only exposed ores and anything hidden behind them mined from the walls of caves, which are only a fraction of all the ores in a chunk (the number of rails I've collected would be closest to the total that originally existed).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
I don't really see a need for a more powerful set of tools- but there could still be more types of armor added with different profficencies. In the same way that diamond armor can be upgraded into netherite using the smithing table, perhaps gold armor could be upgraded into a quartz variant that is weaker but can be enchanted even more effectively; and iron armor could be upgraded with copper into a reinforced type of armor that offers more protection at the expense of durability. (These are just some general ideas.) I'd appreciate more options for advancement, rather than just more advancement in general.
Cooking with Mindthemoods ~ Biomes ~ Archeology
---
~ My Portfolio ~ Skindex ~ Test ~ Discs ~
I would like to see more turtle armor but at the moment there would be no special use for it.
Increasing respiration would downgrade brewing (and fishing).
Increasing the mobility could be catastrophal. Whe can already swim super fast with dolphins.
But i agree, i'd like armor to become more diverse then now. I hope chainmail gets some changes next.
Iron armor feels like the basic armor to me, i wouldn't change that one for now.
My projects:
-are abandoned for now. I might pick 'em up in the future.
For now i'm working on a private modpack that suit's my own playstyle.
I am gonna stay in modded 1.12.2 untill my potato dies. No mercy! :Q
You're talking about work that took you by your own admission 3 years, some of which was done with a Fortune pickaxe within the first 5 months. You're talking about something which literally took you almost a 10th of the average human life expectancy, and in old age we may lose our ability to remain competent enough to play video games due to diseases like dementia.
You basically confirmed my point, that without mending and villager trades, acquiring large amounts of diamonds would become a near limitless grind.
You haven't even filled 1 double chest completely of your diamond blocks and it already took you that long with that version and with the style you play.
I don't know about you, but if mending and villager trades were nerfed to the point where I couldn't repair my armour and tools indefinitely, I'd lose the incentive to mine for diamonds and I would instead mine more common materials like iron since that would be much more efficient. We are already dealt a heavy penalty for losing items in lava, fire or the void, which teaches us to be responsible with our equipment and that I am fully okay with. What I don't want is resources to become too inefficient to be useful.
Apparently, you missed my point about how quickly you can find diamonds by branch-mining, as opposed to caving, which is incredibly inefficient - only about 4 diamonds per hour - compared to over 100 with an effective branch-mining strategy and Fortune III:
Assuming you mine an average of one block per second, which is easily attainable with enchanted tools (even an unenchanted stone pickaxe takes less than a second to mine stone, including a 0.25 second delay added between consecutive blocks), you can average about 61 diamond ore per hour (3600 * 1.7%), 135 diamonds with Fortune III - or around 33 times the rate at which I've collected diamonds over the entire time I've spent playing on my first world, including time not spent caving (15,372 diamonds over 3,725 hours, average 4.1 diamond per hour; when only counting time spent caving I averaged slightly more, 4.3 per hour over 13 play sessions, which still makes my caving 31 times worse than optimal branch-mining).
In other words, you could mine all the diamonds I've collected in an estimated 3,500 hours of caving in only 114 hours if you mined them efficiently; the 1,731 diamonds I've used to repair my pickaxe could be mined in about 13 hours - or only about 0.37% of the time I've been using it. Absolutely no reason why spending just 1% of your playtime on mining diamonds (generously accounting for other gear) is game-breaking or makes them too hard to collect in a game whose very name includes mining.
This also underscores the fact that I do not cave to get resources I need - I do it solely for fun and actually branch-mine myself to get what I need early on, where it only takes a few hours to find what I need, even with TMCW's much rarer amethyst (over that time I found 22 amethyst and 91 diamond ore, the latter about half the rate claimed by the Wiki but I used a tunnel spacing, 3 blocks, which is said to yield about half as many blocks being diamond, and the floor was solid bedrock, reducing efficiency by 1/6. Either way, I have no idea what you are doing to consume diamonds far faster than it would be practical to mine them, even a 10:1 profit still means you only need to spend 10% of your time mining).
Fun fact, I once actually got a comment about why I don't cave since somebody apparently only read the first post in a thread on one of my worlds, which mentioned why I branch-mine and avoid caving at the start of start of a new world (resources are only one factor, I also want to save it for the end-game):
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
Farming is also a part of the game too, this is evidenced by the fact that trading exists in the game to serve as an alternate method to get important gear. This also gives crops another reason to exist in the game besides just providing you with unlimited and generous amounts of food. If you could trade a surplus stack of wheat for an emerald or two, why wouldn't you? you're getting a good deal so there's no logical reason to turn your nose up at the offer.
emeralds also serve as the in-game currency which can get you anything from tools, armour to compasses or shears etc.
Not everyone has a lot of friends to play with so for people with only 2 or 3 people on their worlds at any given time, their options for trading materials are already going to be quite limited as it is, why punish them by removing farmable resources from the game?
I've come to accept the motion to remove AFK farms, but not manual ones that require a lot of time and patience to put into action to get a decent amount of valuable resources, I do think players should be rewarded for building huge surpluses of crop based farms by having them tradeable with the villagers, without that the villagers would have no good reason to exist, in fact before the trades villagers were absolutely useless and were a major criticism people had for the game at the time.
If villagers didn't have trades I wanted I would simply kill them off to be frank with you, because they are dead weight and since they are non sentient beings I have no reason to have empathy for them, they're just bits of code taking up space in a virtual world made up of blocks.
I've seen other people in this thread having pretty much the same take as me on this, but another tier of tools would just be completely redundant. I would definitely be okay with another 6th tier resource, and this is an idea that I've actually thought about for a bit. Enderite sounds good, and to me it would just be able to make armor that is just as good as diamond (not netherite), but the armor has a special bonus that it gives you a 2.5% speed boost for every piece of the armor you wear. It would also have a little more durability on tools and armor, as it is. It think a sort of rose-gold color would look nice for it and it would be a good way to still give it a unique color while not deviating from the End color palate.
If they make another tier of tools and armour then it should be a non farmable ultra rare in my opinion, diamond tools and armour are already infinitely farmable from villager trades which to some may seem overpowered. I'm not so sure I can agree with that given the amount of emeralds you'd spend per item and some of us would like to collect the emeralds for collectable sake or use them for aesthetics on our builds, everyone's playstyle is different.
For people who are only into pure survival, caving etc, yes I could see why people would say it is OP because it means you reach a point where you never have to mine for diamonds to make your top tier overworld tools. However if people do more than just battle monsters and mining, and are into building cities, you'd be surprised how quick resources get spent and mining just isn't enough.
It took TheMasterCaver all that time just to fill up one double chest with diamond blocks, and that's not a grind I wish to take part in because me and friends on my server do more than caving and battling monsters. More years wasted on grinding for resources would just get in the way of things we'd like to do with our time.
I do agree that there should be another tier tool, although it is not needed, I could see the appeal and why people would want it, and having it as an ultra non farmable rare that is more powerful than netherite would give players more things to do in the game instead of complaining about how unbalanced the game is on the forums.
Perhaps Mojang could add a new, 4th dimension with even tougher mobs and bosses for them to fight with the newer gear they've earned, I don't really care as long as it doesn't interfere with the playstyles of people who don't want those things.
Again, I only find an average of about 4.1 diamonds per hour spent caving - truly, utterly awful compared to a good branch-mining technique, which can yield a stack per hour, two stacks if you use Fortune - that's about 32 times the rate at which I collect diamonds! Even then, I only need about 20% of the diamonds that I collect (if I didn't trade), and of course, 1.9 made it so resources are utterly irrelevant anyway.
In fact, here is proof of how quickly you can collect diamonds - they mined 854 diamonds in 12 hours, a rate of 71 per hour, and they simply mined out a huge area, far from the most efficient way to mine:
(skip to 12:12 to see how many diamonds they collected)
Somebody else claims that they can get 120 ores or 264 diamonds per hour with Fortune III using a beacon and presumably a more efficient mining strategy - that's about 64 times the rate at which I collect them!
Again, most players don't come even close to the optimum efficiency as they space their tunnels too close together, or even just clear a large area, as Mumbo did - the chart shown below doesn't show a spacing of 0 but a spacing of 1 only yields an efficiency of about 0.003, less than 1/6 of the optimum spacing, so they could have mined 6 times as many diamonds for the same number of blocks mined. Many players use a spacing of 2, which only gets about 1/3 of the optimal efficiency:
Fun fact: this chart is from 2012, meaning that it is only accurate for versions up to 1.6.4, with slightly less accuracy up to 1.7.10 - in 1.8 they increased the abundance of diamond by about 20% so multiply all the values by 1.2 for current versions (e.g. 1 block mined per second * 0.017 being diamond ore = 61.2 ore per hour, 1.8 and later = 73.44 ore per hour)
For yet another example of just how awful I am at finding diamond, people have found far more diamond per hour while caving - in 1.7 and later!
This underscores the fact that I don't just look for diamond; I thoroughly explore everything underground, regardless of its altitude - I've even occasionally found no diamond at all over an entire 3-4 hour play session since few of the caves I was exploring went deep enough. Actually, even my iron collection rate is less than claimed above for competitive caving, 200 vs 300 per hour for one player, though I did collect much more when I once played in 1.9 just to see how effective Mending was; 1.6.4 cave systems may be far larger but they have less ores exposed for a given volume/length of caves, plus I do mine all coal, which isn't even counted.
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
Most people are not going to be pro miners in the game, this is an unavoidable fact. I get that using Fortune III enchantment would increase the rate of diamond gathering but that is to be expected.
I'm still not comfortable with the idea of diamond tools and armour being removed from trades, I'd be okay with them costing more emeralds than they do now to encourage more mining, but to remove the currently renewable items from trades would be a total nuisance and would discourage me and friends on my server from playing altogether.
Perhaps it is possible to mine diamonds at 32 times the rate of the way you do it using enchantments, (although you did admit to using Fortune in the first 5 months out of the 3 years of your mining sessions) I'm not an expert on that. But what I do know is I don't want to waste a 10th of my lifetime on mining just 1 material. Repetition becomes boring after a while, it's also artificial difficulty, not a true challenge, there's a huge difference.
The addition of netherite is a decent tradeoff instead of making current materials in the game more grindy than they already are. A stronger set of tools and armour can be made but you also take a huge risk by going into a more dangerous dimension to get it. An ultra rare End item being added to the game for tools and armour would be nice as well, it would give people something else to work towards.
Fortune is completely irrelevant as I also looked at raw ore collected over time, not diamonds per hour, which is closer to 4.6 when subtracting what I used before I started trading and adding diamonds from mineshaft chests. Also, how many people are ever going to use 15,000 diamonds? Depending on the tools and enchantments you use that is capable of mining 7.8 to 93 million blocks (the lowest figure is pickaxes/axes without Unbreaking - even then the diamonds I've collected could have mined twice as much as I have - while the highest is shovels with Unbreaking III)! Also, "3 years" means 3 years of playing for a few hours per day, which adds up to only a few months of 24/7 gameplay (this is not even half my potential as I will have been playing for 8 years in a few months, but a lot of it has been spent on other worlds). Then there is the fact that Mending makes it completely irrelevant anyway, and I never heard of people complaining about resource availability before it was added; it is quite hard to imagine that anybody is going to get a worse efficiency than I do (unless they play as I do, then collecting resources is not on their mind).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
it strictly depends on what the resources are used for.
And making beacons out of diamond blocks is very costly as it should be given the fact they give you stat buffs when used nearby.
But there's also a lot of aesthetics that could require diamond blocks, such as large temples with diamond block flooring if somebody wants that sort of thing, then imagine a dozen or 100+ players all doing this on the same server. I don't want a situation where people end up fighting over resources because on non anarchy servers it is not something I'd wish to contend with, I don't want to police it and neither do the people I play with who are trustworthy enough not to grief builds to start with.
The point is Minecraft isn't just about combat and mining and I don't see why people should be forced to go on creative mode which is essentially cheating just to get an abundance of a material. People aren't complaining yet because the resources in the game aren't too rare, but if an update changed that then I can guarantee you there will be numerous people complaining about it and would likely end up playing older versions of the game in either the Java launcher or the legacy console editions of the game on PS4 and Xbox One to make up for an update that ruined the availability of resources that they relied on to do ambitious builds.