------------------------ NOTICE
I was informed that this discussion is already taking place on this thread: Coal/Iron Strategic Ressources
Please respond to these ideas there, thank you very much!
------------------------
My preference would be for a much greater emphasis on the exploration and discovery aspects of the game, and I hope that's the way Notch is going with development. The following are some suggestions on ore distribution changes which could help push the game in that direction.
Problems
1. Heights – Currently any terrain higher than sea level serves the following purposes: A place to grow trees, something to climb, and scenery. Mountains especially seem like little more than obstacles. They fill no niche, provide no reason to explore them, and get in the way.
2. Depths – Currently everything dry below sea level serves the following purposes: A buffer between you and the “diamond zone”, a place to explore caves, and dark, dangerous scenery. The middle layers of the world need to have more potential.
3. Infinity Wasted – Because of ore distribution, each chunk has some of every ore, which is found at predictable layers. Because every ore can be found in small quantities in small areas there is little reason to explore for more resources. Because every ore is found at predictable layers, and there are layers at which every ore can be found, there is no reason to mine outside of the diamond zone. Ever. So if for any building project an area roughly 128x128x16 holds all of the mineable resources one might need, there’s no reason to explore the world, visit far-off places, or to utilize the game’s awesome transportation options. Without a reason to explore there is no reason the game need be infinite in breadth.
Suggested Solutions
1. Ore distribution needs to be less limited by altitude – If it were possible to find various ores at any altitude, exploring all layers becomes rewarding. Altitude should play its part, but only as a modifier to the likelihood, not as a limiting factor. Altitude’s modifier to the likelihood of generating a vein of an ore should range from 100% (the sweet spot for that type of ore) to no less than 10% (the rarest depths at which the ore can be found). Yes, this means that one out of ten diamond clusters have the potential to be just under the sandy beach. Anomalous ore deposits will create unique features in an area, providing something cool to find when exploring distant locations.
2. Altitude for ore distribution needs to be variable – For the purposes of ore distribution, the likelihood of finding an ore at a certain level should be based on a percentage of the total vertical space from bedrock to the highest stone block in a column, rather than on a fixed layer of the world. This results in the area under mountains having larger stretches of ore sweet spots and the possibility of mining into the sides of tall mountains to find sweet spots for ores which are common deep underground. Hills produce ideal mining locations, just like in the real world. (e.g.: Let’s say gold is most commonly found between the upper 6-16% of the elevation. In a selected location under a sea the highest stone is found is at layer 59 so gold is most likely between layers and 50 and 56. In a selected location of a high uplift the highest stone is found at layer 108 so gold is most likely between layers 91 and 102. This is a spread of 6 layers under the sea versus a spread of 11 layers under the mountain, and the elevation of the sweet spot is drastically different, giving players a reason to explore vastly different areas of the world.)
3. Ores need contrasting sweet spots – Let’s say you need an ore, maybe it’s gold (because you want to… um… well let’s pretend it has a purpose). You could dig down to where gold is found and dig there. Or, since you could benefit from getting diamonds as well, and since gold is also found where diamonds are found, you could mine in the diamond zone to get gold and everything else. Why would you bother mining outside the diamond zone? You wouldn’t. This needs to change, and I suggest looking to the real world for inspiration:
[*:1095n0yc]Coal was formed near the surface, and so is rarely found very deep. The largest ore deposits are coal.
[*:1095n0yc]Iron is the element of the Earth’s core, and so is found in greater quantities the deeper you go. Iron is found in smaller, common clusters which get larger and rarer as you go up.
[*:1095n0yc]Gold is an element formed in stars and deposited in various ways, but usually is not found very deep. We find most of our gold in places where erosion removes everything else around it, so under water and near gravel and sand in upper elevations is the best place to look for gold. Gold usually does not cluster very much, but is spread out. It tends to cluster more closely the deeper you go. Gold is very rare at the deepest depths.
[*:1095n0yc]Diamonds are formed at the deepest depths and are usually only found in locations where we can reach them after lava vents bring them to the surface. Diamonds are rare, of course, but are easier to find the deeper you go and the closer you are to lava sources.
[*:1095n0yc]Lapis Lazuli is usually found in marble! Neat huh? Well there’s no marble in the game, but it can be found near sandstone too, so lapis should be found primarily under thick layers of sandstone. It becomes much more rare as you go deep.
[*:1095n0yc]Redstone is make-believe, so this should probably fill a niche. In looking at my other suggestions maybe the mid range of depths would be best. It could be interesting if redstone had a strong tendency to form vertical veins, making it more interesting. As it stands, redstone is far too common in the game (I can get 3 stacks of redstone for every 1 diamond – who needs that?) so should probably be more rare.
4. Ores need larger, rarer clusters – If ores were found in much larger clusters and far less frequently (retaining the current ratios of ore to stone) it would be a special and exciting event to find an ore vein. This would greater value the exploration process, provide other reasons to build to protect resource deposits, and give us greater reasons to venture far and wide for sources of ores.
When I say “larger clusters” I mean exponentially larger. Coal, which forms the largest deposits, should usually be found in clusters of 256 to 1024 blocks (just to pick some round numbers out of the air). Since coal usually constitutes around 9% of a given area of stone (rough estimate) that means that it could be around 100 blocks linear distance between one coal deposit and another.
Yes, this means you will have to rely on charcoal until you find coal, at which point you’ll probably have enough coal for a while. Maybe when you find coal you want to establish a coal mine at that location, to ensure that you can get it out and back home safely. Maybe you want to build a minecart track here to make it easier to come back for more. Maybe now you have a reason to be building things that have their own reason to exist and the game is more fun. Would be for me.
Note: This concept would benefit greatly by increasing the limitations of the game world’s Z axis, making taller mountains and deeper depths.
4. Ores need larger, rarer clusters – If ores were found in much larger clusters and far less frequently (retaining the current ratios of ore to stone) it would be a special and exciting event to find an ore vein. This would greater value the exploration process, provide other reasons to build to protect resource deposits, and give us greater reasons to venture far and wide for sources of ores.
When I say “larger clusters” I mean exponentially larger. Coal, which forms the largest deposits, should usually be found in clusters of 256 to 1024 blocks (just to pick some round numbers out of the air). Since coal usually constitutes around 9% of a given area of stone (rough estimate) that means that it could be around 100 blocks linear distance between one coal deposit and another.
Yes, this means you will have to rely on charcoal until you find coal, at which point you’ll probably have enough coal for a while. Maybe when you find coal you want to establish a coal mine at that location, to ensure that you can get it out and back home safely. Maybe you want to build a minecart track here to make it easier to come back for more. Maybe now you have a reason to be building things that have their own reason to exist and the game is more fun. Would be for me.
NOTICE
I was informed that this discussion is already taking place on this thread: Coal/Iron Strategic Ressources
Please respond to these ideas there, thank you very much!
------------------------
My preference would be for a much greater emphasis on the exploration and discovery aspects of the game, and I hope that's the way Notch is going with development. The following are some suggestions on ore distribution changes which could help push the game in that direction.
Problems
1. Heights – Currently any terrain higher than sea level serves the following purposes: A place to grow trees, something to climb, and scenery. Mountains especially seem like little more than obstacles. They fill no niche, provide no reason to explore them, and get in the way.
2. Depths – Currently everything dry below sea level serves the following purposes: A buffer between you and the “diamond zone”, a place to explore caves, and dark, dangerous scenery. The middle layers of the world need to have more potential.
3. Infinity Wasted – Because of ore distribution, each chunk has some of every ore, which is found at predictable layers. Because every ore can be found in small quantities in small areas there is little reason to explore for more resources. Because every ore is found at predictable layers, and there are layers at which every ore can be found, there is no reason to mine outside of the diamond zone. Ever. So if for any building project an area roughly 128x128x16 holds all of the mineable resources one might need, there’s no reason to explore the world, visit far-off places, or to utilize the game’s awesome transportation options. Without a reason to explore there is no reason the game need be infinite in breadth.
Suggested Solutions
1. Ore distribution needs to be less limited by altitude – If it were possible to find various ores at any altitude, exploring all layers becomes rewarding. Altitude should play its part, but only as a modifier to the likelihood, not as a limiting factor. Altitude’s modifier to the likelihood of generating a vein of an ore should range from 100% (the sweet spot for that type of ore) to no less than 10% (the rarest depths at which the ore can be found). Yes, this means that one out of ten diamond clusters have the potential to be just under the sandy beach. Anomalous ore deposits will create unique features in an area, providing something cool to find when exploring distant locations.
2. Altitude for ore distribution needs to be variable – For the purposes of ore distribution, the likelihood of finding an ore at a certain level should be based on a percentage of the total vertical space from bedrock to the highest stone block in a column, rather than on a fixed layer of the world. This results in the area under mountains having larger stretches of ore sweet spots and the possibility of mining into the sides of tall mountains to find sweet spots for ores which are common deep underground. Hills produce ideal mining locations, just like in the real world. (e.g.: Let’s say gold is most commonly found between the upper 6-16% of the elevation. In a selected location under a sea the highest stone is found is at layer 59 so gold is most likely between layers and 50 and 56. In a selected location of a high uplift the highest stone is found at layer 108 so gold is most likely between layers 91 and 102. This is a spread of 6 layers under the sea versus a spread of 11 layers under the mountain, and the elevation of the sweet spot is drastically different, giving players a reason to explore vastly different areas of the world.)
3. Ores need contrasting sweet spots – Let’s say you need an ore, maybe it’s gold (because you want to… um… well let’s pretend it has a purpose). You could dig down to where gold is found and dig there. Or, since you could benefit from getting diamonds as well, and since gold is also found where diamonds are found, you could mine in the diamond zone to get gold and everything else. Why would you bother mining outside the diamond zone? You wouldn’t. This needs to change, and I suggest looking to the real world for inspiration:
[*:1095n0yc]Coal was formed near the surface, and so is rarely found very deep. The largest ore deposits are coal.
[*:1095n0yc]Iron is the element of the Earth’s core, and so is found in greater quantities the deeper you go. Iron is found in smaller, common clusters which get larger and rarer as you go up.
[*:1095n0yc]Gold is an element formed in stars and deposited in various ways, but usually is not found very deep. We find most of our gold in places where erosion removes everything else around it, so under water and near gravel and sand in upper elevations is the best place to look for gold. Gold usually does not cluster very much, but is spread out. It tends to cluster more closely the deeper you go. Gold is very rare at the deepest depths.
[*:1095n0yc]Diamonds are formed at the deepest depths and are usually only found in locations where we can reach them after lava vents bring them to the surface. Diamonds are rare, of course, but are easier to find the deeper you go and the closer you are to lava sources.
[*:1095n0yc]Lapis Lazuli is usually found in marble! Neat huh? Well there’s no marble in the game, but it can be found near sandstone too, so lapis should be found primarily under thick layers of sandstone. It becomes much more rare as you go deep.
[*:1095n0yc]Redstone is make-believe, so this should probably fill a niche. In looking at my other suggestions maybe the mid range of depths would be best. It could be interesting if redstone had a strong tendency to form vertical veins, making it more interesting. As it stands, redstone is far too common in the game (I can get 3 stacks of redstone for every 1 diamond – who needs that?) so should probably be more rare.
4. Ores need larger, rarer clusters – If ores were found in much larger clusters and far less frequently (retaining the current ratios of ore to stone) it would be a special and exciting event to find an ore vein. This would greater value the exploration process, provide other reasons to build to protect resource deposits, and give us greater reasons to venture far and wide for sources of ores.
When I say “larger clusters” I mean exponentially larger. Coal, which forms the largest deposits, should usually be found in clusters of 256 to 1024 blocks (just to pick some round numbers out of the air). Since coal usually constitutes around 9% of a given area of stone (rough estimate) that means that it could be around 100 blocks linear distance between one coal deposit and another.
Yes, this means you will have to rely on charcoal until you find coal, at which point you’ll probably have enough coal for a while. Maybe when you find coal you want to establish a coal mine at that location, to ensure that you can get it out and back home safely. Maybe you want to build a minecart track here to make it easier to come back for more. Maybe now you have a reason to be building things that have their own reason to exist and the game is more fun. Would be for me.
Note: This concept would benefit greatly by increasing the limitations of the game world’s Z axis, making taller mountains and deeper depths.
This Thread Right Here ---> Coal/Iron Strategic Ressources
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