But, my real problem wasn't even with your suggestion. It was with you, how you handled criticism, and then proceeded to belittle those who provided it.
That's why I suggested putting it all behind. I'd rather just continue copper discussion than have to worry about what has been said.
I do like how you brought up metallurgy, though. If a copper set/tier is added, I'd prefer if it had a special effect. Since gameplay > realism and copper is thought of as an electrical element (even though gold is more conductive), I think it'd be interesting if mining a redstone block with copper could change its "configuration" and allow more possibilities. Maybe copper boots could even carry a redstone charge for when you walk over redstone dust.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Watch out for the crabocalypse. Some say the day will never come. But it will.
Feel free to drop by for a chat whenever.
If you'd like to talk with me about other games, here are a few I play.
Team Fortress 2
Borderlands series (Borderlands 2 is my favorite game, ever. TPS combat is a lot of fun and makes up for the lower-quality story, in my opinion)
Elder Scrolls series
Warframe (IGN is something like That_One_Flesh_Atronach)
Pokémon series (HGSS forever)
Rocket League
Fallout series
Left 4 Dead 2 (Boomer files always corrupt though)
SUPERHOT (SUPERHOT is the most innovative shooter I've played in years!)
Dead Rising series (Dead Rising 2 is one of my favorite games, and the 3rd was a lot of fun. 1st has poor survivor AI and the 4th is bad)
Just Cause series
Come to think of it, I mainly play fighting-based games.
And here's why. Copper is such a little known metal for the use of arms and armor smithing, that it's better known for its use in creating the material that later made it obsolete in such uses: bronze. But more on that in a moment.
Now, I love history, but I was surprised to even see that a few historians decided to make up a "Copper age" that only lasted a little over a thousand years, a sliver of humanity's history of smithing. And the same I'm sure would happen for players with similar arms and armor of the same material; a brief time spent in use, if ever spent at all, just to be subsumed by its historical better: bronze.
Now, the thing about bronze is that, as I hinted at earlier, it is an alloy. We do now have an alloy in game, that being Netherite. Adding alloys could make for interesting, complex gameplay,
I suggested copper as a fix for a progression issue. This is Minecraft, so reality isn't that important. And I don't have any real attachment to the metal being added being copper. It could be bronze ore for all I care. The important thing I'm going for is pushing iron back. The addition of copper is mostly just to prevent huge redstone machines from becoming more expensive. I think the price of redstone machinery is in a good place; it is only the price of iron armor which I have a problem with.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I want ocean content(thanks Möjang!), nether biomes(again thanks!!), and savanna passive mobs (meerkats incoming!?).
it is only the price of iron armor which I have a problem with.
So, just how rare do you think iron needs to be? You do know that if you make it too rare most players will simply go straight to diamond, just as I never consider leather, both because iron is easy to obtain and it doesn't offer much protection. You can easily obtain full diamond armor without ever having to fight a single mob if you branch-mine, which can yield as much as 14 times the natural abundance would suggest in terms of diamond per block mined (this also applies to other ores, so even if iron were made as rare as diamond currently is you could find upwards of a stack per hour). As I mentioned before, somebody was able to make a full set of diamond gear - not just armor, but every single tool, requiring 35 diamonds in total - in less than an hour from starting a new world without using Fortune.
Maybe this isn't typical but the Wiki has data that indicates that up to 1.7% of blocks mined can be diamond ore so you only need to mine one block every 1.75 seconds to find 35 within an hour; even with stone tools and the mining times given on the Wiki only applicable to single blocks you only spend about half that time actually mining to achieve such a rate (for multiple blocks you must add a delay of at least 0.05 seconds between blocks, plus another 0.25 seconds if you can't instant-mine them, so a stone pickaxe can mine about 67 stone per minute, not 100). Iron is about 6 times more abundant per layer so you could find 210 in the same time it takes to find 35 diamond.
In the end, the only thing making ores rarer does is extend the grind required to get the tools and armor; once you get Mending, which is much easier to get than its status of a "treasure" enchantment implies (which in my view means only obtainable from loot chests), there is no need whatsoever to ever collect more resources for your gear, and otherwise you shouldn't have to play like TheMasterCaver in order to get enough resources to sustain their usage, which most players already don't like as evidenced by all the farms they make (which only furthers my point that many players already think resources are too rare to justify the effort on actually mining them. At the least, iron and all other mineral-based mob drops should only drop if the mob is directly killed by a player, as Mojang once tried doing in a 1.8 snapshot. I think it is crazy that the bugs fixes listed for the 1.16 pre-releases include restoring a bug that makes zombie pigmen drop loot as if killed by a player simply because they are angry).
This is also why my own version of "Netherite", amethyst (not actually based on it, I added it around 6 years ago, but similar as far as rarity and tiers go) is more common below cave lava level so it isn't so difficult to obtain it by branch-mining when compared to its abundance in caves, which is designed to be just enough to let me sustainably use it without Fortune; even then, while branch-mining for my first resources I only found 22 amethyst ore as opposed to 91 diamond ore and around 550 iron ore (I didn't count the latter but iron is about 6 times more abundant within the peak range of diamond) - the amount of diamond I found is enough that I wouldn't even consider using Fortune on it as the time needed to get it likely offsets the time needed to do more mining (while I need a continuous resource income to maintain my gear my playstyle guarantees that so there is no need to maximize diamond yield and it is much more comparable to using Mending in 1.9+ - either way, the abundance of resources doesn't really matter after I've found what I need to make my gear).
Also, if iron is 6 times more abundant than diamond (between layers 5-12) and Fortune multiplies the diamond yield by 2.2 this means that iron is effectively only about 2.7 times more common than diamond so there isn't much room for making it rarer without making going straight to diamond even more attractive (the overall difference is about 30:1, 14:1 with Fortune, due to iron generating over a much wider range, but for a branch-mine only the density on the layers the mine covers matters).
So, just how rare do you think iron needs to be? You do know that if you make it too rare most players will simply go straight to diamond,
I addressed this when I said that diamond should be rarer, too. But as per the forum rules, I need to focus on one suggestion at a time.
Also, many players (especially newer players) will not skip iron tier, as they will not find diamonds so early on. Bountiful or not, most players simply won't find themselves going to y=16 or lower unless they are told they should.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I want ocean content(thanks Möjang!), nether biomes(again thanks!!), and savanna passive mobs (meerkats incoming!?).
Hm.
I have a simpler idea.
Needing anvil and lava buckets to build plate armour, be it gold, iron or diamond.
Cost increase by 2 ingots for helmet and boots, and 3 ingots for leggings and chestplates.
So you insert 6/7/10/11 iron/gold ingots/diamonds in first anvil slot, lava bucket (you'd empty bucket back) in the second, and fresh armourpiece appears in the third slot.
Using iron ingots on crafting bench would yield before-forsaken chainmail, and for diamonds or gold - nothing.
Satisfactory?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
Hm.
I have a simpler idea.
Needing anvil and lava buckets to build plate armour, be it gold, iron or diamond.
Cost increase by 2 ingots for helmet and boots, and 3 ingots for leggings and chestplates.
So you insert 6/7/10/11 iron/gold ingots/diamonds in first anvil slot, lava bucket (you'd empty bucket back) in the second, and fresh armourpiece appears in the third slot.
Using iron ingots on crafting bench would yield before-forsaken chainmail, and for diamonds or gold - nothing.
Satisfactory?
Diamond is a gemstone. Not a metal. You can't melt it down and reshape it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Watch out for the crabocalypse. Some say the day will never come. But it will.
Feel free to drop by for a chat whenever.
If you'd like to talk with me about other games, here are a few I play.
Team Fortress 2
Borderlands series (Borderlands 2 is my favorite game, ever. TPS combat is a lot of fun and makes up for the lower-quality story, in my opinion)
Elder Scrolls series
Warframe (IGN is something like That_One_Flesh_Atronach)
Pokémon series (HGSS forever)
Rocket League
Fallout series
Left 4 Dead 2 (Boomer files always corrupt though)
SUPERHOT (SUPERHOT is the most innovative shooter I've played in years!)
Dead Rising series (Dead Rising 2 is one of my favorite games, and the 3rd was a lot of fun. 1st has poor survivor AI and the 4th is bad)
Just Cause series
Come to think of it, I mainly play fighting-based games.
Diamond is a gemstone. Not a metal. You can't melt it down and reshape it.
I know.
But game treats diamond like a metal, letting you create swords, plate armour, and various tools with it.
I see no problem with crafting these tools as if diamond was metal.
Optionally I can say that I solder the diamond bits with lava on the anvil, it makes more sense than doing so on crafting table without lava either way. Edit: Besides, we were talking about iron.
Apart from the diamond detail, what do you think of plate armour creation on anvil with use of lava?
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
I think it's a good idea. Crafting is oversimplified in this game and multi-step recipes are fun. Now that we even have a Search feature in crafting books I no longer see any reason to avoid expanding the mechanic again.
That's why I suggested putting it all behind. I'd rather just continue copper discussion than have to worry about what has been said.
I do like how you brought up metallurgy, though. If a copper set/tier is added, I'd prefer if it had a special effect. Since gameplay > realism and copper is thought of as an electrical element (even though gold is more conductive), I think it'd be interesting if mining a redstone block with copper could change its "configuration" and allow more possibilities. Maybe copper boots could even carry a redstone charge for when you walk over redstone dust.
Watch out for the crabocalypse. Some say the day will never come. But it will.
Feel free to drop by for a chat whenever.
If you'd like to talk with me about other games, here are a few I play.
Team Fortress 2
Borderlands series (Borderlands 2 is my favorite game, ever. TPS combat is a lot of fun and makes up for the lower-quality story, in my opinion)
Elder Scrolls series
Warframe (IGN is something like That_One_Flesh_Atronach)
Pokémon series (HGSS forever)
Rocket League
Fallout series
Left 4 Dead 2 (Boomer files always corrupt though)
SUPERHOT (SUPERHOT is the most innovative shooter I've played in years!)
Dead Rising series (Dead Rising 2 is one of my favorite games, and the 3rd was a lot of fun. 1st has poor survivor AI and the 4th is bad)
Just Cause series
Come to think of it, I mainly play fighting-based games.
I suggested copper as a fix for a progression issue. This is Minecraft, so reality isn't that important. And I don't have any real attachment to the metal being added being copper. It could be bronze ore for all I care. The important thing I'm going for is pushing iron back. The addition of copper is mostly just to prevent huge redstone machines from becoming more expensive. I think the price of redstone machinery is in a good place; it is only the price of iron armor which I have a problem with.
I want
ocean content(thanks Möjang!),nether biomes(again thanks!!), and savanna passive mobs (meerkats incoming!?).So, just how rare do you think iron needs to be? You do know that if you make it too rare most players will simply go straight to diamond, just as I never consider leather, both because iron is easy to obtain and it doesn't offer much protection. You can easily obtain full diamond armor without ever having to fight a single mob if you branch-mine, which can yield as much as 14 times the natural abundance would suggest in terms of diamond per block mined (this also applies to other ores, so even if iron were made as rare as diamond currently is you could find upwards of a stack per hour). As I mentioned before, somebody was able to make a full set of diamond gear - not just armor, but every single tool, requiring 35 diamonds in total - in less than an hour from starting a new world without using Fortune.
Maybe this isn't typical but the Wiki has data that indicates that up to 1.7% of blocks mined can be diamond ore so you only need to mine one block every 1.75 seconds to find 35 within an hour; even with stone tools and the mining times given on the Wiki only applicable to single blocks you only spend about half that time actually mining to achieve such a rate (for multiple blocks you must add a delay of at least 0.05 seconds between blocks, plus another 0.25 seconds if you can't instant-mine them, so a stone pickaxe can mine about 67 stone per minute, not 100). Iron is about 6 times more abundant per layer so you could find 210 in the same time it takes to find 35 diamond.
In the end, the only thing making ores rarer does is extend the grind required to get the tools and armor; once you get Mending, which is much easier to get than its status of a "treasure" enchantment implies (which in my view means only obtainable from loot chests), there is no need whatsoever to ever collect more resources for your gear, and otherwise you shouldn't have to play like TheMasterCaver in order to get enough resources to sustain their usage, which most players already don't like as evidenced by all the farms they make (which only furthers my point that many players already think resources are too rare to justify the effort on actually mining them. At the least, iron and all other mineral-based mob drops should only drop if the mob is directly killed by a player, as Mojang once tried doing in a 1.8 snapshot. I think it is crazy that the bugs fixes listed for the 1.16 pre-releases include restoring a bug that makes zombie pigmen drop loot as if killed by a player simply because they are angry).
This is also why my own version of "Netherite", amethyst (not actually based on it, I added it around 6 years ago, but similar as far as rarity and tiers go) is more common below cave lava level so it isn't so difficult to obtain it by branch-mining when compared to its abundance in caves, which is designed to be just enough to let me sustainably use it without Fortune; even then, while branch-mining for my first resources I only found 22 amethyst ore as opposed to 91 diamond ore and around 550 iron ore (I didn't count the latter but iron is about 6 times more abundant within the peak range of diamond) - the amount of diamond I found is enough that I wouldn't even consider using Fortune on it as the time needed to get it likely offsets the time needed to do more mining (while I need a continuous resource income to maintain my gear my playstyle guarantees that so there is no need to maximize diamond yield and it is much more comparable to using Mending in 1.9+ - either way, the abundance of resources doesn't really matter after I've found what I need to make my gear).
Also, if iron is 6 times more abundant than diamond (between layers 5-12) and Fortune multiplies the diamond yield by 2.2 this means that iron is effectively only about 2.7 times more common than diamond so there isn't much room for making it rarer without making going straight to diamond even more attractive (the overall difference is about 30:1, 14:1 with Fortune, due to iron generating over a much wider range, but for a branch-mine only the density on the layers the mine covers matters).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
I addressed this when I said that diamond should be rarer, too. But as per the forum rules, I need to focus on one suggestion at a time.
Also, many players (especially newer players) will not skip iron tier, as they will not find diamonds so early on. Bountiful or not, most players simply won't find themselves going to y=16 or lower unless they are told they should.
I want
ocean content(thanks Möjang!),nether biomes(again thanks!!), and savanna passive mobs (meerkats incoming!?).Hm.
I have a simpler idea.
Needing anvil and lava buckets to build plate armour, be it gold, iron or diamond.
Cost increase by 2 ingots for helmet and boots, and 3 ingots for leggings and chestplates.
So you insert 6/7/10/11 iron/gold ingots/diamonds in first anvil slot, lava bucket (you'd empty bucket back) in the second, and fresh armourpiece appears in the third slot.
Using iron ingots on crafting bench would yield before-forsaken chainmail, and for diamonds or gold - nothing.
Satisfactory?
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
Diamond is a gemstone. Not a metal. You can't melt it down and reshape it.
Watch out for the crabocalypse. Some say the day will never come. But it will.
Feel free to drop by for a chat whenever.
If you'd like to talk with me about other games, here are a few I play.
Team Fortress 2
Borderlands series (Borderlands 2 is my favorite game, ever. TPS combat is a lot of fun and makes up for the lower-quality story, in my opinion)
Elder Scrolls series
Warframe (IGN is something like That_One_Flesh_Atronach)
Pokémon series (HGSS forever)
Rocket League
Fallout series
Left 4 Dead 2 (Boomer files always corrupt though)
SUPERHOT (SUPERHOT is the most innovative shooter I've played in years!)
Dead Rising series (Dead Rising 2 is one of my favorite games, and the 3rd was a lot of fun. 1st has poor survivor AI and the 4th is bad)
Just Cause series
Come to think of it, I mainly play fighting-based games.
I know.
But game treats diamond like a metal, letting you create swords, plate armour, and various tools with it.
I see no problem with crafting these tools as if diamond was metal.
Optionally I can say that I solder the diamond bits with lava on the anvil, it makes more sense than doing so on crafting table without lava either way.
Edit: Besides, we were talking about iron.
Apart from the diamond detail, what do you think of plate armour creation on anvil with use of lava?
Dwarf gamer found:
Buildings - square, not round
Materials - from rubble mound
Dark caves - lit 'n' cleaned out
Settlements - deep underground
Farmability - to grinder bound
Shields - made creepers but sound
Axes and crossbows - taking mobs out
I think it's a good idea. Crafting is oversimplified in this game and multi-step recipes are fun. Now that we even have a Search feature in crafting books I no longer see any reason to avoid expanding the mechanic again.