Minecraft has large variety of food. But there are some "super foods", such as steaks, which restore many food points and saturation points, and easy obtainable at same time. So, many players just skip any other type of food (some of which are objectively very poor - such as cookies, carrots, berries, etc) ad eat only steaks and golden carrots. That kills big part of the game, because many foods and complex recipies are fell excessive. Like there are so many food items with no purpose.
I suggest to fix this by adding new food statistic called "fatigue".
Basically: there more you eat particular food item - the less food points and saturation points it regenerates.
The counter works during the day. Lets say steak has 5 fatigue points (I don`t have particular math formula, I just show general concept). After you eat steak for 5 times - you get status effect "steak fatigued" (or whatever). After that steak will regenerate only 4 food points (not 8 as before), and 6.4 saturation (opposed to 12.8). To get rid of this effect you need to eat another food. Everytime you are eating another food - you decreasing "fatigue" counter for previously eated foods. This counter is decreasing with time also.
This will force player to consume different types of food during the day. Carefully select which type foods (and how many of them) to take in the long trip.
Basic foods (like carrots, beets, steaks) wil have lowest fatigue resistance (can`t eat many of them). Complex food like rabbit stew or pumpkin pie (any kinds of stews or pies) will have higher fatigue resistance (you can eat lot of them, before you become fatigued), so it will motivate player to make complex dishes.
UPD
But you can be fatigued by multiple types of food simultaneously.
If you fatigued, lets say, by steaks an start to eat golden carrots you can get "golden carrot fatigue" before you loose "steak fatigue", so you need to use third food type.
It just depends how rapidly you consume food.
UPD
I suggest to divide food on three categories. Meat, Fruits and vegetables, seafood.
Food X doesn`t affect duration of fatigue caused by food Y if they both are in same category. Porkchop will not reduce Steak fatigue.You can eat it ofcourse as alternative food during steak fatigue, but you can get Porkchop fatigue even before steak fatigue ends.
Food from another category (baked potato) will reduce duration of steak fatigue each time you eat it. So you can get rid of fatigue by eating food from another category. But fatigue counter for baked potato itself will rise each time you it it.
Duration of fatigue, and how many items you need to eat in certain period of time to get fatigue of that specific food item, should be dependent on saturation level of that item and its complexity.
More complex food is (stew, pie) - more of it you can eat before catch fatigue stat.
More simple it is (carrot, steak) - sooner you get fatigue stat
More saturation points food have - longer you will be affected by fatigue.
So, speaking of steak - it is simple (one ingredient) food with high points of saturation. That means you will be affected by fatigue pretty soon, and that fatigue will last longer compared to many other foods.
Cake, from other hand, is complex food with low saturation points. That means you can eat lot of it before get fatigue effect, and this effect will not last for long.
Berries are simple food with low sat points - you will get fatigued pretty soon, but not for long.
P.S. Sorry, I am not native English speaker. I hope you get my point.
UPD
Also, I suggest to implement positive effect for eating various food during the day (something like potion effect).
It works like this: during the day you eat specific food combinations, effect appears and lasts one game day.
To activate this effect you need to eat during the day such food combinations:
Three different cooked meat (Porkchop + Steak + Mutton, or Steak + Chicken + Rabbit , etc.)
OR
Four types of vegetarian food (Beets + Carrots + Bread + Potatoes, etc.)
OR
Two types of meat AND two types of vegetables, including bread (Porkchop + Steak + Carrots + Bread, or Mutton + Chicken + Potatoes + Beets, etc.)
OR
One type of meat AND one type of seafood AND one type of vegetable (cooked Salmon + Steak + Sweet berries, or Rabbit + Dried kelp + bread, etc.)
What effect exactly? It could provide you with two additional health hearts like golden apple do. Or your speed could be faster. More oxygen under a water. Write your suggestions!
This mechanic is not connected to fatigue system directly, it just another bonus for eating something else except steak.
If it only require 1 other kind of food to be eaten, then they'll probably still do what you're trying to prevent: eat steaks until fatigued, then eat golden carrots.
But, the complex food part might help with that, though bowls stews take up lots of inventory.
I feel like there would need to be more underlying complexity here to make it worth implementing. Based on how this is currently described, instead of just having one stack of Steak, I have one of Steak and another of the next best food like a Porkchop. Then I just alternate between the two, which is no big deal. This isn't going to really convince players to diversify their food much in the current state.
But at the same time I don't really want some complex subsystem added to what is supposed to be a simple system. I don't see a need for it to be more complex than Be Hungry > Eat Food > Be Not Hungry.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
I know a mod that does this. Its called Spice of Life. I'm not saying "this can be implemented via mod instead" but if you want this feature right now than you can use this mod
It doesn't add a "fatigue" feature like you suggest, but it just causes food to fufill less and less hunger and saturation points as you eat more of a certain type. One downside is I believe this mod isn't being worked on anymore, so it only goes from 1.6.4 - 1.12.2. I'm not trying to depose your suggestion I just recommend this mod if you want this feature in the game.
I feel like there would need to be more underlying complexity here to make it worth implementing. Based on how this is currently described, instead of just having one stack of Steak, I have one of Steak and another of the next best food like a Porkchop. Then I just alternate between the two, which is no big deal. This isn't going to really convince players to diversify their food much in the current state.
But at the same time I don't really want some complex subsystem added to what is supposed to be a simple system. I don't see a need for it to be more complex than Be Hungry > Eat Food > Be Not Hungry.
But you can be fatigued by second type of food also
If you fatigued by steaks an start to eat golden carrots you can get "golden carrot fatigue" before you loose "steak fatigue", so you need to use third food type.
All this would do is make the food mechanic annoying while adding nothing to it. Instead of just steaks or golden carrots, now people will be lugging around steaks, pork, and golden carrots.
But you can be fatigued by second type of food also
If you fatigued by steaks an start to eat golden carrots you can get "golden carrot fatigue" before you loose "steak fatigue", so you need to use third food type.
It just depends how rapidly you consume food.
Well that means you probably need to give more details on the rate the fatigue decreases over time and how much eating one food reduces the fatigue of others. Based solely on the OP you just say that eating food of type X reduces fatigue for type Y. Without additional information of how much fatigue is actually going up or down it isn't easy to give useful feedback or opinions on the idea.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
Well that means you probably need to give more details on the rate the fatigue decreases over time and how much eating one food reduces the fatigue of others. Based solely on the OP you just say that eating food of type X reduces fatigue for type Y. Without additional information of how much fatigue is actually going up or down it isn't easy to give useful feedback or opinions on the idea.
I suggest to divide food on three categories. Meat, Fruits and vegetables, seafood.
Food X doesn`t affect duration of fatigue caused by food Y if they both are in same category. Porkchop will not reduce Steak fatigue.You can eat it ofcourse as alternative food during steak fatigue, but you can get Porkchop fatigue even before steak fatigue ends.
Food from another category (baked potato) will reduce duration of steak fatigue each time you eat it. So you can get rid of fatigue by eating food from another category. But fatigue counter for baked potato itself will rise each time you it it.
Duration of fatigue, and how many items you need to eat in certain period of time to get fatigue of that specific food item, should be dependent on saturation level of that item and its complexity.
More complex food is (stew, pie) - more of it you can eat before catch fatigue stat.
More simple it is (carrot, steak) - sooner you get fatigue stat
More saturation points food have - longer you will be affected by fatigue.
So, speaking of steak - it is simple (one ingredient) food with high points of saturation. That means you will be affected by fatigue pretty soon, and that fatigue will last longer compared to many other foods.
Cake, from other hand, is complex food with low saturation points. That means you can eat lot of it before get fatigue effect, and this effect will not last for long.
Berries are simple food with low sat points - you will get fatigued pretty soon, but not for long.
P.S. Sorry, I am not native English speaker. I hope you get my point.
Like alxgvr mentioned, this system would encourage players to plan ahead before going on long trips, and that is one of my favorite benefits from this suggestion. It needs to be refined.
All this would do is make the food mechanic annoying while adding nothing to it. Instead of just steaks or golden carrots, now people will be lugging around steaks, pork, and golden carrots.
I believe you are mistaken.
You say this suggestion would add nothing to the food mechanic (system), but if you read the OP carefully, you could see that this suggestion adds a fatigue system within the food mechanic system.
Sooooo... a system that if you don't eat a diversified diet it introduces your Player Character to Depression?
No thanks. I already have that IRL. I don't need my game character suffering from it too. :-)
It is more that the Minecraft hunger system is currently suffering from depression, and OP put forth a system that cures it by bringing balance to the food items. :-)
As much as I personally enjoy having to farm for multiple types of food, this suggestion is a straight downgrade to the current hunger system. It'd just make hunger management more tedious. Give it some kind of benefit system. Maybe eating a food (possibly anything from the whole category) you haven't eaten much of recently gives it a massive saturation boost? Maybe it gives off some kind of new potion effect? Nobody will want to support it if it's only downsides. The hunger bar itself had benefits such as enabling health regeneration and sprinting.
And please, let the food fatigues be hidden mechanics, not potion effects. Potion effects can be cleared with a simple bucket of milk (this even applies to things like Bad Omen and Hero of the Village), and I don't want my screen cluttered with Fatigue timers every time I open my inventory.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Watch out for the crabocalypse. Some say the day will never come. But it will.
Feel free to drop by for a chat whenever.
If you'd like to talk with me about other games, here are a few I play.
Team Fortress 2
Borderlands series (Borderlands 2 is my favorite game, ever. TPS combat is a lot of fun and makes up for the lower-quality story, in my opinion)
Elder Scrolls series
Warframe (IGN is something like That_One_Flesh_Atronach)
Pokémon series (HGSS forever)
Rocket League
Fallout series
Left 4 Dead 2 (Boomer files always corrupt though)
SUPERHOT (SUPERHOT is the most innovative shooter I've played in years!)
Dead Rising series (Dead Rising 2 is one of my favorite games, and the 3rd was a lot of fun. 1st has poor survivor AI and the 4th is bad)
Just Cause series
Come to think of it, I mainly play fighting-based games.
As much as I personally enjoy having to farm for multiple types of food, this suggestion is a straight downgrade to the current hunger system. It'd just make hunger management more tedious. Give it some kind of benefit system. Maybe eating a food (possibly anything from the whole category) you haven't eaten much of recently gives it a massive saturation boost? Maybe it gives off some kind of new potion effect? Nobody will want to support it if it's only downsides. The hunger bar itself had benefits such as enabling health regeneration and sprinting.
And please, let the food fatigues be hidden mechanics, not potion effects. Potion effects can be cleared with a simple bucket of milk (this even applies to things like Bad Omen and Hero of the Village), and I don't want my screen cluttered with Fatigue timers every time I open my inventory.
I disagree with your comment about nobody wanting to support it if it is only "downsides". If you read my post further up the thread, I already expressed support.
I support your idea of keeping the fatigue a hidden mechanic as opposed to being a potion effect.
Consider the "This suggestion only brings downsides" argument. This suggestion may bring objective downsides to Minecraft regarding Minecraft's current system, but Minecraft's current system is why we are suggesting a change in the first place.
The current system could use rework because it is out of balance. Once balance is brought between the food items, the new system may be considered a "downside" from the old system in regards to immediate player benefit, but the main point of the suggestion is to rework the system with little to no concern for matching it's standards with the current system. Whether or not this suggestion makes Minecraft easier or harder in the long run is not as important as bringing balance to the food items.
If I were in Mojang, I would bring balance by setting new standards, and then refine difficultly based on the new system and how it relates to other in-game systems, as opposed to matching difficulty with the old hunger system. Forget the old system, it was broken to begin with, and too easy in my opinion.
I am not opposed to adding "upsides", but this "downside" suggestion alone does not "just make the hunger system more tedious"; it sets new standards that fix the current unbalanced hunger system. Of course, what is tedious is subjective; for me this suggestion would make the hunger system more fun.
In regards to the overall Minecraft survival experience, this system is a straight upgrade from the current hunger system. It needs to be refined.
I disagree with your comment about nobody wanting to support it if it is only "downsides". If you read my post further up the thread, I already expressed support.
Generalization. I'm confident that the overwhelming majority of the Minecraft community would dislike the idea, so I'm able to use words reflecting that. The slight exaggeration is to make my argument stronger. Sure, you agreed with the idea,but out of the seven commenters minus OP, you're the first to agree with it.
This suggestion may bring objective downsides to Minecraft regarding Minecraft's current system, but Minecraft's current system is why we are suggesting a change in the first place.
Isn't that the point of suggesting things? To change parts of the game you don't like? And what do you mean by "objective"? Downside (in this case) is a synonym for downgrade.
Consider this: iron swords do six damage and 200-something durability. Diamond swords do seven damage and have a whopping 1561 durability. Iron swords cannot be "objectively" better. Likewise, the idea removes the easiness that comes from sticking to one type of easily-obtainable food for the sake of making the game more difficult and requiring more planning. Since the idea is changing the core mechanics of the game in an unavoidable way and only exists to punish the player with absolutely zero incentives to stick to the system aside from maintaining the old default values, it is considered a direct downgrade. Like using a butter knife to cut a steak.
The current system could use rework because it is out of balance. Once balance is brought between the food items, the new system may be considered a "downside" from the old system in regards to immediate player benefit,
So you take a complete 180 and say I can only criticize it if I support the idea?
the main point of the suggestion is to rework the system with little to no concern for matching it's standards with the current system. Whether or not this suggestion makes Minecraft easier or harder in the long run is not as important as bringing balance to the food items.
I beg to differ. Minecraft has a very casual playerbase. Your average non-Wiki-hounding player wouldn't understand how this works. Furthermore, it would tank the difficulty of Minecraft in one of the worst ways possible. Not everybody has the ability to immediately farm multiple types of food. I've created Hardcore worlds where I build as large a farm as I can and still struggle to create bread every few days. So when that bread vanishes...
If I were in Mojang, I would bring balance by setting new standards, and then refine difficultly based on the new system and how it relates to other in-game systems, as opposed to matching difficulty with the old hunger system. Forget the old system, it was broken to begin with, and too easy in my opinion.
I've read this at least eight times now, yet I still can't process what you're saying here.
I am not opposed to adding "upsides", but this "downside" suggestion alone does not "just make the hunger system more tedious"; it sets new standards that fix the current unbalanced hunger system. Of course, what is tedious is subjective; for me this suggestion would make the hunger system more fun.
It's nice that you find it fun, but you're not the majority of the community. Minecraft has never been about mechanics like these. It's not the same type of survival game as something like ARK or Don't Starve. Minecraft is first and foremost a sandbox game.
This system would simply cripple adventuring further than 1.13 did by adding Phantom random encounters when you don't sleep. Ever since Phantoms were added, players have had to either take a bed with them and risk losing their gear and spawnpoint or simply face the wrath of multiple flying biters spawning and chomping down on them. Phantoms changed the core mechanics of the game by setting the standard for mobs spawning from triggered events. Did they make the game more enjoyable? No.
In regards to the overall Minecraft survival experience, this system is a straight upgrade from the current hunger system. It needs to be refined.
You admit this system adds no upsides then call it a direct upgrade? How can it perform better than the current system if there are no additional mechanics that allow it to perform in the first place?
Generalization. I'm confident that the overwhelming majority of the Minecraft community would dislike the idea, so I'm able to use words reflecting that. The slight exaggeration is to make my argument stronger. Sure, you agreed with the idea,but out of the seven commenters minus OP, you're the first to agree with it.
Generalization is a fallacy. How do you know that you are slightly exaggerating? You might be significantly exaggerating. You would need to be circular in order to assume that you are correct from the get-go. The majority of posts here are perhaps negative feedback (that is not to say they are not constructive!); but appealing to these comments as support for your generalization is supporting a general proposition with anecdotal evidence, which is another fallacy. It could be that most people who read this post agree with OP but haven't spoken about it.
Even if the majority of players are generally on your side, appealing to them would be to appeal to population; another fallacy. Minecraft should not be built solely on what the population wants. The game would have no backbone. It would turn into a mess of unbalanced systems because different people want different things, and we cannot please everybody. There needs to be a single large coherent balanced vision that Minecraft develops towards.
Isn't that the point of suggesting things? To change parts of the game you don't like?
Not necessarily, but I believe my point went over your head.
And what do you mean by "objective"? Downside (in this case) is a synonym for downgrade.
Consider this: iron swords do six damage and 200-something durability. Diamond swords do seven damage and have a whopping 1561 durability. Iron swords cannot be "objectively" better. Likewise, the idea removes the easiness that comes from sticking to one type of easily-obtainable food for the sake of making the game more difficult and requiring more planning. Since the idea is changing the core mechanics of the game in an unavoidable way and only exists to punish the player with absolutely zero incentives to stick to the system aside from maintaining the old default values, it is considered a direct downgrade. Like using a butter knife to cut a steak.
"Objective", meaning: Absolute (relating to values); not relating to opinions nor feelings. "Downside", meaning: Increased difficulty; less immediate player benefit.
"Objective downside" (as it was used in this case) example:
John: "They changed the sword damage value from 6 to 5, what an objective downside!"
Dustin: "Yes, but overall, they brought balance to other weapons; now the stone sword is no longer obsolete! This is an objective upside, but in another sense. Focus on the bigger picture, John!"
So you take a complete 180 and say I can only criticize it if I support the idea?
No, I did not say this. I believe my point went over your head. I remained logically consistent and said what I said above.
I beg to differ. Minecraft has a very casual playerbase. Your average non-Wiki-hounding player wouldn't understand how this works. Furthermore, it would tank the difficulty of Minecraft in one of the worst ways possible. Not everybody has the ability to immediately farm multiple types of food.
Instead of focusing what is best for the balance of the game, you are concerned with how you think casual players are going to stumble. This is where we differ. There is a casual fanbase, and there is also a technical fanbase who wants to see this survival game thrive with a solid balanced structure. If the casual people are casual, then will they even mind this technical suggestion?
Not everybody has the ability to immediately farm multiple types of food? They can learn. If they don't learn, then they can still live on one type of food. Those who learn systems are rewarded. Case closed. That is my opinion, and I am happy that you have yours.
I've created Hardcore worlds where I build as large a farm as I can and still struggle to create bread every few days. So when that bread vanishes...
...Hopefully this system will be in place.
I've read this at least eight times now, yet I still can't process what you're saying here.
That is, I would implement a system similar to this suggested system, and then I would refine things for purposes of difficulty relative to how the game plays with the new system. I would not strive to keep the hunger system balanced with how it currently stands. In a nutshell and to run with an analogy you already used: The player has too many steak knives. We may need to take some away in order to fix balancing issues; but that is alright, because we are focusing on building a foundation with new standards.
It's nice that you find it fun, but you're not the majority of the community. Minecraft has never been about mechanics like these.
Of course it has. That is why Minecraft has a hunger system.
It's not the same type of survival game as something like ARK or Don't Starve. Minecraft is first and foremost a sandbox game.
This system would simply cripple adventuring further than 1.13 did by adding Phantom random encounters when you don't sleep. Ever since Phantoms were added, players have had to either take a bed with them and risk losing their gear and spawnpoint or simply face the wrath of multiple flying biters spawning and chomping down on them. Phantoms changed the core mechanics of the game by setting the standard for mobs spawning from triggered events. Did they make the game more enjoyable? No.
I understand your point regarding Phantoms. However, when discussing what is enjoyable, it is often beneficial to remember that "enjoyable" is subjective. Phantoms likely make the game enjoyable for many people, even if those people do not speak out.
Phantoms were voted into the game, were they not?
You admit this system adds no upsides then call it a direct upgrade?
No upsides in a sense and relative to the old system. It is a direct upgrade because it solves balancing issues and gives many obsolete items a strong purpose.
How can it perform better than the current system if there are no additional mechanics that allow it to perform in the first place?
There are additional mechanics; the fatigue mechanic.
Instead of replying to your post and explaining that saying OP's suggestion is balanced and current hunger is completely flawed is opinionated, I tried finding a different way to explain what I'm trying to convey. And that's why I spent the past three hours creating a post of how I'd make the fatigue system work in a way that doesn't only bring diet-based restrictions.
.
Let it be noted that I spent four hours writing this.
.
One of the things I don't think you picked up on is that I also think hunger could be improved. However, while I also dislike how steak can be farmed easily for the best food source in the game, I personally feel it would be far more effective to promote farming multiple types of food instead of just one.
.
Going back the "thirst bar suggestions sound similar to what OP wants" for a second. Almost every thirst bar suggestion I've seen was something along the lines of "if you don't drink water, you will gain slowness and nausea effects before dying." The criticisms revolve around how this will cripple exploration what with having to lug around bottles of water everywhere and how this would make long-term Nether travel almost impossible due to a lack of infinite sources. So I came up with my own idea for a thirst bar. 1.9 reduced outside-combat health regeneration by greatly increasing regeneration's drain on the saturation bar. My idea was an invisible thirst bar, like the saturation bar, that would revert a player to the 1.8 saturation fatigue when at 15 or higher thirst. By this method, both sides are pleased. It doesn't affect those who don't want it. And those who do feel they could get away with carrying a few glass bottles would be rewarded with a higher regeneration rate.
.
Actually, now that I think about it (I've currently been writing this for about two hours and have two sentences from the next paragraph), OP's system would be ineffective at best. A player could carry around steak, porkchops, cooked salmon and pumpkin pie. Maybe add in golden carrots. All of them are the most effective foods in their category. Pigs and cows are easy to farm, plus they are affected by Looting. Players can buy at least four pumpkin pies at a time for one emerald with farmer villagers. Cooked salmon would technically be the hardest to obtain but not by much. Especially when guardians and the new "fish mob cap" as of last night are counted.
.
That's four slots for food. Four wasted slots of an ender chest. Then the problem shows itself. A player could eat steak until fatigued, then switch to pork. When pork fatigues them, switch to pumpkin pies that they will be able to eat the longest. Once pies are fatigued, steak could be back to normal. If not, move onwards to cooked salmon.
.
That's the problem with this idea. If the player eats the pork or pumpkin pie to the point of fatigue and steak is regenerated, the system can easily be exploited and therefore not only adds in a dozen unnecessary mechanics but is also fully redundant due to being exploitable. On the other hand, if the player goes through four of the best stackable foods, all of which are some of the best food sources in each category and the first still isn't regenerated, then the fatigue value is way too high and will make exploration nearly impossible, as all players would need at least a Silk Touch pickaxe, eight obsidian and Nether access to make sure their inventory isn't filled to the brim with food.
.
And one final note I just thought of before I return to how I'd handle the idea. Mojang designed 1.16 to make survival in only the Nether without ever returning to the overworld (as evidenced by the Respawn Anchor) possible. The only food sources in the Nether are Rotten Flesh and Raw/Cooked Porkchops. I doubt Mojang would spend that long on an update only to essentially make the point of it irrelevant soon afterward.
.
.
This same method could be applied to the OP's idea. There would still be three categories: meat, plants and seafood. There can still be fatigue so long as it does not significantly cripple a player's ability to eat. The fatigue should be based around a default value of four hunger points (two full bars) in terms of fatigue. I'd say probably every ten to twelve (I'll use 12 for this) of one food eaten within a certain period of time (maybe a week, or 140 minutes) would give them a hidden fatigue value for that specific food. Since it's based on a two-bar system, that means food like steak and pork would instead fatigue after six consumptions. Bread would work out to be something like 9 or 10 consumptions. Sweet berries and melons would fatigue after twenty-four consumptions. Raw potatoes and tropical fish could be consumed a whopping 48 times each.
Each day at midnight (or whenever the Minecraft day counter shifts up one), each food's bar would drop inversely proportional to saturation, but no fewer than one. The number also rounds to the closest whole number. The fewer the saturation points, the hungrier you'd be after eating them, and thus the more of them you can eat after rolling back. Effectively, fatigue only lasts for the remainder of the day as such. However, if you don't eat from other categories, you'd only be able to eat one more steak before returning to a fatigued state.
.
Since the highest fatigue not including the Saturation potion effect would be a golden carrot's 14.4, cooked chicken's 7.2 would be the default. You'd be able to consume one more cooked chicken at rollover so long as the counter has not already reached zero. Dividing 7.2 by the base saturation gives a general idea of how much each food should restore at rollover.
Apple: 7.2/2.4 = 3
Baked Potato: 1.2, rounds to 1
Beetroot: 6
Beetroot Soup: 1 -> 2 (soup)
Bread: 1.2 -> 1
Cake (slice): 18 (cake would count per-slice instead of as a whole and thus would be much higher. This roughly translates to 2.5 cakes)
Carrot: 2
Chorus Fruit: 3
Cooked Chicken: 1
Cooked Cod: 1.2 -> 1 (will only put 1 when it would round to 1 from here on out)
Cooked Mutton: 1
Cooked Porkchop: 1
Cooked Rabbit: 1
Cooked Salmon: 1
Cookie: 18
Dried Kelp: 12
Golden Apples: 1
Enchanted Golden Apples: so rare they couldn't be used as a food source, so they have no fatigue
Golden Carrot: 1
Honey Bottle: 6
Melon Slice: 6
Mushroom Stew: 1 -> 3 (stew)
Poisonous Potato: 60% chance to poison makes it a useless food source, would have no fatigue
Potato: 12
Pufferfish: always gives poison 4 and hunger 3, would not fatigue
Pumpkin Pie: 1.5 -> 2 (rounding) -> 3 (pie)
Rabbit Stew: 1 -> 4 (stew)
Raw Beef: 4
Raw Chicken: 6
Raw Cod: 18
Raw Mutton: 6
Raw Porkchop: 4
Raw Rabbit: 4
Raw Salmon: 18
Rotten Flesh: 9
Spider Eye: only two hunger points and gives poison, no fatigue
Steak: 1
Suspicious Stew: 1 -> 4 (stew)
Sweet Berries: 18
Tropical Fish: 36
I did take a few liberties. Namely, enchanted golden apples can only be found in desert temples, and very rarely. There is no reasonable way for a player to obtain so many and need to consume them frequently enough as to require a fatigue value. One could argue Creative mode, but at that point, there's really no need to rebalance for Survival purposes. And they're magical apples. As such, I decided enchanted variants don't need fatigue. This does not apply to regular golden apples.
.
I also went with OP's idea to focus on complex crafting, so I increased the number of soups, stews and pies that decrease at rollover. Rabbit stew and suspicious stew are the most complex to craft. As such, they received the highest bonuses. However, I still believe rabbit stew and beetroot soup require buffs so they are better dishes than the sum of their ingredients.
.
Finally, I looked at Poisonous Potatoes, Pufferfish and Spider Eyes and decided the low food benefits and high rate/chance of poisoning made them worthless foods regardless. As such, they lack any fatigue system since anyone who consumes one would already be damaged enough by their default effects.
.
.
And now, the "upside" part I've planned out. If you want to give something a benefit without reworking entire mechanics, use potion effects.
Meat consists of proteins of which make up muscles. So it would be reasonable for every few meats a player eats to give at least twenty seconds of muscle-based effects. I'm thinking specifically Strength 1 for something like 30-40 seconds and Regeneration 1 for five seconds. That way, players would be incentivized to bring meat with them when they plan on fighting a ton of enemies, such as in woodland mansions and End Cities.
Plants contain more energy than meats due to how energy transfers through food chain. The player, as such, would receive more of this energy. I think it's fair to say that every few plants would give potion effects that represent this. Maybe thirty seconds of Speed 1, Jump Boost 1 and Haste 1 for a minute would be available. That way, a player would be incentivized to bring fruits not necessarily for exploration purposes but rather when they have to clear a large area.
I can't think of anything for seafood, so it should serve as more of an "all-arounder". Fish could give twenty seconds of Night Vision, a minute of Luck or Luck 2, thirty seconds of Water Breathing, and potentially even a minute of the unobtainable Health Boost. Night Vision and Water Breathing would help with exploration, Health Boost would aid in combat even more than Absorption, and Luck would help when fishing for treasure.
Alternatively, each potion effect for that category could have a random chance of triggering whenever a food from it is consumed.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Watch out for the crabocalypse. Some say the day will never come. But it will.
Feel free to drop by for a chat whenever.
If you'd like to talk with me about other games, here are a few I play.
Team Fortress 2
Borderlands series (Borderlands 2 is my favorite game, ever. TPS combat is a lot of fun and makes up for the lower-quality story, in my opinion)
Elder Scrolls series
Warframe (IGN is something like That_One_Flesh_Atronach)
Pokémon series (HGSS forever)
Rocket League
Fallout series
Left 4 Dead 2 (Boomer files always corrupt though)
SUPERHOT (SUPERHOT is the most innovative shooter I've played in years!)
Dead Rising series (Dead Rising 2 is one of my favorite games, and the 3rd was a lot of fun. 1st has poor survivor AI and the 4th is bad)
Just Cause series
Come to think of it, I mainly play fighting-based games.
Just going to point out the floating rocks and trees, the diamonds being molded into wearable pants, the buckets full of lava, the skeletons capable of pulling back a bow string, let alone stand, without any muscles, and the apples, carrots, and melons being combined with gold, which would definitely result in severe heavy metal poisoning... and the spelling mistake.
Minecraft has large variety of food. But there are some "super foods", such as steaks, which restore many food points and saturation points, and easy obtainable at same time. So, many players just skip any other type of food (some of which are objectively very poor - such as cookies, carrots, berries, etc) ad eat only steaks and golden carrots. That kills big part of the game, because many foods and complex recipies are fell excessive. Like there are so many food items with no purpose.
I suggest to fix this by adding new food statistic called "fatigue".
Basically: there more you eat particular food item - the less food points and saturation points it regenerates.
The counter works during the day. Lets say steak has 5 fatigue points (I don`t have particular math formula, I just show general concept). After you eat steak for 5 times - you get status effect "steak fatigued" (or whatever). After that steak will regenerate only 4 food points (not 8 as before), and 6.4 saturation (opposed to 12.8). To get rid of this effect you need to eat another food. Everytime you are eating another food - you decreasing "fatigue" counter for previously eated foods. This counter is decreasing with time also.
This will force player to consume different types of food during the day. Carefully select which type foods (and how many of them) to take in the long trip.
Basic foods (like carrots, beets, steaks) wil have lowest fatigue resistance (can`t eat many of them). Complex food like rabbit stew or pumpkin pie (any kinds of stews or pies) will have higher fatigue resistance (you can eat lot of them, before you become fatigued), so it will motivate player to make complex dishes.
UPD
But you can be fatigued by multiple types of food simultaneously.
If you fatigued, lets say, by steaks an start to eat golden carrots you can get "golden carrot fatigue" before you loose "steak fatigue", so you need to use third food type.
It just depends how rapidly you consume food.
UPD
I suggest to divide food on three categories. Meat, Fruits and vegetables, seafood.
Food X doesn`t affect duration of fatigue caused by food Y if they both are in same category. Porkchop will not reduce Steak fatigue.You can eat it ofcourse as alternative food during steak fatigue, but you can get Porkchop fatigue even before steak fatigue ends.
Food from another category (baked potato) will reduce duration of steak fatigue each time you eat it. So you can get rid of fatigue by eating food from another category. But fatigue counter for baked potato itself will rise each time you it it.
Duration of fatigue, and how many items you need to eat in certain period of time to get fatigue of that specific food item, should be dependent on saturation level of that item and its complexity.
More complex food is (stew, pie) - more of it you can eat before catch fatigue stat.
More simple it is (carrot, steak) - sooner you get fatigue stat
More saturation points food have - longer you will be affected by fatigue.
So, speaking of steak - it is simple (one ingredient) food with high points of saturation. That means you will be affected by fatigue pretty soon, and that fatigue will last longer compared to many other foods.
Cake, from other hand, is complex food with low saturation points. That means you can eat lot of it before get fatigue effect, and this effect will not last for long.
Berries are simple food with low sat points - you will get fatigued pretty soon, but not for long.
P.S. Sorry, I am not native English speaker. I hope you get my point.
UPD
Also, I suggest to implement positive effect for eating various food during the day (something like potion effect).
It works like this: during the day you eat specific food combinations, effect appears and lasts one game day.
To activate this effect you need to eat during the day such food combinations:
Three different cooked meat (Porkchop + Steak + Mutton, or Steak + Chicken + Rabbit , etc.)
OR
Four types of vegetarian food (Beets + Carrots + Bread + Potatoes, etc.)
OR
Two types of meat AND two types of vegetables, including bread (Porkchop + Steak + Carrots + Bread, or Mutton + Chicken + Potatoes + Beets, etc.)
OR
One type of meat AND one type of seafood AND one type of vegetable (cooked Salmon + Steak + Sweet berries, or Rabbit + Dried kelp + bread, etc.)
What effect exactly? It could provide you with two additional health hearts like golden apple do. Or your speed could be faster. More oxygen under a water. Write your suggestions!
This mechanic is not connected to fatigue system directly, it just another bonus for eating something else except steak.
If it only require 1 other kind of food to be eaten, then they'll probably still do what you're trying to prevent: eat steaks until fatigued, then eat golden carrots.
But, the complex food part might help with that, though bowls stews take up lots of inventory.
I feel like there would need to be more underlying complexity here to make it worth implementing. Based on how this is currently described, instead of just having one stack of Steak, I have one of Steak and another of the next best food like a Porkchop. Then I just alternate between the two, which is no big deal. This isn't going to really convince players to diversify their food much in the current state.
But at the same time I don't really want some complex subsystem added to what is supposed to be a simple system. I don't see a need for it to be more complex than Be Hungry > Eat Food > Be Not Hungry.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum
I know a mod that does this. Its called Spice of Life. I'm not saying "this can be implemented via mod instead" but if you want this feature right now than you can use this mod
Here is the link on curse forge: https://www.curseforge.com/minecraft/mc-mods/the-spice-of-life
It doesn't add a "fatigue" feature like you suggest, but it just causes food to fufill less and less hunger and saturation points as you eat more of a certain type. One downside is I believe this mod isn't being worked on anymore, so it only goes from 1.6.4 - 1.12.2. I'm not trying to depose your suggestion I just recommend this mod if you want this feature in the game.
But you can be fatigued by second type of food also
If you fatigued by steaks an start to eat golden carrots you can get "golden carrot fatigue" before you loose "steak fatigue", so you need to use third food type.
It just depends how rapidly you consume food.
All this would do is make the food mechanic annoying while adding nothing to it. Instead of just steaks or golden carrots, now people will be lugging around steaks, pork, and golden carrots.
Stay fluffy~
Well that means you probably need to give more details on the rate the fatigue decreases over time and how much eating one food reduces the fatigue of others. Based solely on the OP you just say that eating food of type X reduces fatigue for type Y. Without additional information of how much fatigue is actually going up or down it isn't easy to give useful feedback or opinions on the idea.
Want some advice on how to thrive in the Suggestions section? Check this handy list of guidelines and tips for posting your ideas and responding to the ideas of others!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2775557-guidelines-for-the-suggestions-forum
Sooooo... a system that if you don't eat a diversified diet it introduces your Player Character to Depression?
No thanks. I already have that IRL. I don't need my game character suffering from it too. :-)
No one is more professional that I. I am a Non-Commissioned Officer, a Leader of Soldiers.
I suggest to divide food on three categories. Meat, Fruits and vegetables, seafood.
Food X doesn`t affect duration of fatigue caused by food Y if they both are in same category. Porkchop will not reduce Steak fatigue.You can eat it ofcourse as alternative food during steak fatigue, but you can get Porkchop fatigue even before steak fatigue ends.
Food from another category (baked potato) will reduce duration of steak fatigue each time you eat it. So you can get rid of fatigue by eating food from another category. But fatigue counter for baked potato itself will rise each time you it it.
Duration of fatigue, and how many items you need to eat in certain period of time to get fatigue of that specific food item, should be dependent on saturation level of that item and its complexity.
More complex food is (stew, pie) - more of it you can eat before catch fatigue stat.
More simple it is (carrot, steak) - sooner you get fatigue stat
More saturation points food have - longer you will be affected by fatigue.
So, speaking of steak - it is simple (one ingredient) food with high points of saturation. That means you will be affected by fatigue pretty soon, and that fatigue will last longer compared to many other foods.
Cake, from other hand, is complex food with low saturation points. That means you can eat lot of it before get fatigue effect, and this effect will not last for long.
Berries are simple food with low sat points - you will get fatigued pretty soon, but not for long.
P.S. Sorry, I am not native English speaker. I hope you get my point.
This is a great idea, I support it.
Like alxgvr mentioned, this system would encourage players to plan ahead before going on long trips, and that is one of my favorite benefits from this suggestion. It needs to be refined.
I believe you are mistaken.
You say this suggestion would add nothing to the food mechanic (system), but if you read the OP carefully, you could see that this suggestion adds a fatigue system within the food mechanic system.
It is more that the Minecraft hunger system is currently suffering from depression, and OP put forth a system that cures it by bringing balance to the food items. :-)
As much as I personally enjoy having to farm for multiple types of food, this suggestion is a straight downgrade to the current hunger system. It'd just make hunger management more tedious. Give it some kind of benefit system. Maybe eating a food (possibly anything from the whole category) you haven't eaten much of recently gives it a massive saturation boost? Maybe it gives off some kind of new potion effect? Nobody will want to support it if it's only downsides. The hunger bar itself had benefits such as enabling health regeneration and sprinting.
And please, let the food fatigues be hidden mechanics, not potion effects. Potion effects can be cleared with a simple bucket of milk (this even applies to things like Bad Omen and Hero of the Village), and I don't want my screen cluttered with Fatigue timers every time I open my inventory.
Watch out for the crabocalypse. Some say the day will never come. But it will.
Feel free to drop by for a chat whenever.
If you'd like to talk with me about other games, here are a few I play.
Team Fortress 2
Borderlands series (Borderlands 2 is my favorite game, ever. TPS combat is a lot of fun and makes up for the lower-quality story, in my opinion)
Elder Scrolls series
Warframe (IGN is something like That_One_Flesh_Atronach)
Pokémon series (HGSS forever)
Rocket League
Fallout series
Left 4 Dead 2 (Boomer files always corrupt though)
SUPERHOT (SUPERHOT is the most innovative shooter I've played in years!)
Dead Rising series (Dead Rising 2 is one of my favorite games, and the 3rd was a lot of fun. 1st has poor survivor AI and the 4th is bad)
Just Cause series
Come to think of it, I mainly play fighting-based games.
I disagree with your comment about nobody wanting to support it if it is only "downsides". If you read my post further up the thread, I already expressed support.
I support your idea of keeping the fatigue a hidden mechanic as opposed to being a potion effect.
Consider the "This suggestion only brings downsides" argument. This suggestion may bring objective downsides to Minecraft regarding Minecraft's current system, but Minecraft's current system is why we are suggesting a change in the first place.
The current system could use rework because it is out of balance. Once balance is brought between the food items, the new system may be considered a "downside" from the old system in regards to immediate player benefit, but the main point of the suggestion is to rework the system with little to no concern for matching it's standards with the current system. Whether or not this suggestion makes Minecraft easier or harder in the long run is not as important as bringing balance to the food items.
If I were in Mojang, I would bring balance by setting new standards, and then refine difficultly based on the new system and how it relates to other in-game systems, as opposed to matching difficulty with the old hunger system. Forget the old system, it was broken to begin with, and too easy in my opinion.
I am not opposed to adding "upsides", but this "downside" suggestion alone does not "just make the hunger system more tedious"; it sets new standards that fix the current unbalanced hunger system. Of course, what is tedious is subjective; for me this suggestion would make the hunger system more fun.
In regards to the overall Minecraft survival experience, this system is a straight upgrade from the current hunger system. It needs to be refined.
Generalization. I'm confident that the overwhelming majority of the Minecraft community would dislike the idea, so I'm able to use words reflecting that. The slight exaggeration is to make my argument stronger. Sure, you agreed with the idea,but out of the seven commenters minus OP, you're the first to agree with it.
Isn't that the point of suggesting things? To change parts of the game you don't like? And what do you mean by "objective"? Downside (in this case) is a synonym for downgrade.
Consider this: iron swords do six damage and 200-something durability. Diamond swords do seven damage and have a whopping 1561 durability. Iron swords cannot be "objectively" better. Likewise, the idea removes the easiness that comes from sticking to one type of easily-obtainable food for the sake of making the game more difficult and requiring more planning. Since the idea is changing the core mechanics of the game in an unavoidable way and only exists to punish the player with absolutely zero incentives to stick to the system aside from maintaining the old default values, it is considered a direct downgrade. Like using a butter knife to cut a steak.
So you take a complete 180 and say I can only criticize it if I support the idea?
I beg to differ. Minecraft has a very casual playerbase. Your average non-Wiki-hounding player wouldn't understand how this works. Furthermore, it would tank the difficulty of Minecraft in one of the worst ways possible. Not everybody has the ability to immediately farm multiple types of food. I've created Hardcore worlds where I build as large a farm as I can and still struggle to create bread every few days. So when that bread vanishes...
I've read this at least eight times now, yet I still can't process what you're saying here.
It's nice that you find it fun, but you're not the majority of the community. Minecraft has never been about mechanics like these. It's not the same type of survival game as something like ARK or Don't Starve. Minecraft is first and foremost a sandbox game.
This system would simply cripple adventuring further than 1.13 did by adding Phantom random encounters when you don't sleep. Ever since Phantoms were added, players have had to either take a bed with them and risk losing their gear and spawnpoint or simply face the wrath of multiple flying biters spawning and chomping down on them. Phantoms changed the core mechanics of the game by setting the standard for mobs spawning from triggered events. Did they make the game more enjoyable? No.
You admit this system adds no upsides then call it a direct upgrade? How can it perform better than the current system if there are no additional mechanics that allow it to perform in the first place?
I'd recommend reading through some thirst bar threads before replying to my post. They sound similar to OP's suggestion, and they share many common criticisms. You may pick up on something.
Watch out for the crabocalypse. Some say the day will never come. But it will.
Feel free to drop by for a chat whenever.
If you'd like to talk with me about other games, here are a few I play.
Team Fortress 2
Borderlands series (Borderlands 2 is my favorite game, ever. TPS combat is a lot of fun and makes up for the lower-quality story, in my opinion)
Elder Scrolls series
Warframe (IGN is something like That_One_Flesh_Atronach)
Pokémon series (HGSS forever)
Rocket League
Fallout series
Left 4 Dead 2 (Boomer files always corrupt though)
SUPERHOT (SUPERHOT is the most innovative shooter I've played in years!)
Dead Rising series (Dead Rising 2 is one of my favorite games, and the 3rd was a lot of fun. 1st has poor survivor AI and the 4th is bad)
Just Cause series
Come to think of it, I mainly play fighting-based games.
If we measure the game in "easy" and "difficult" terms, than, probably, players should not play in survival mode at all.
Creative mode doesn't have hunger system at all. You can fly also.
Survival mode brings only "downgrades" compared to Creative
Main point: current food system is broken and does not make sence.
Everything in Minecraft makes sence and existing for a reason except food.
You only need one type of animal (cow), and one type of food (steak) to survive.
All other type of food exist for no reason and easily can be removed from the game (except of golden apples maybe).
So we ned to JUSTIFY this vast majority of food items by implementing such complex nutrition system,
Player must be FORCED to diversify his nutrition. This can be achieved to adding "downgrade" and "penalties" to food system.
Death is also downgrade.
Despawning items after death, loosing XP, too expensive enchantments...
Those are all "downgrades"
Game needs to be challenging. Otherwise it wouldn't be fun.
Generalization is a fallacy. How do you know that you are slightly exaggerating? You might be significantly exaggerating. You would need to be circular in order to assume that you are correct from the get-go. The majority of posts here are perhaps negative feedback (that is not to say they are not constructive!); but appealing to these comments as support for your generalization is supporting a general proposition with anecdotal evidence, which is another fallacy. It could be that most people who read this post agree with OP but haven't spoken about it.
Even if the majority of players are generally on your side, appealing to them would be to appeal to population; another fallacy. Minecraft should not be built solely on what the population wants. The game would have no backbone. It would turn into a mess of unbalanced systems because different people want different things, and we cannot please everybody. There needs to be a single large coherent balanced vision that Minecraft develops towards.
Not necessarily, but I believe my point went over your head.
"Objective", meaning: Absolute (relating to values); not relating to opinions nor feelings. "Downside", meaning: Increased difficulty; less immediate player benefit.
"Objective downside" (as it was used in this case) example:
John: "They changed the sword damage value from 6 to 5, what an objective downside!"
Dustin: "Yes, but overall, they brought balance to other weapons; now the stone sword is no longer obsolete! This is an objective upside, but in another sense. Focus on the bigger picture, John!"
No, I did not say this. I believe my point went over your head. I remained logically consistent and said what I said above.
Instead of focusing what is best for the balance of the game, you are concerned with how you think casual players are going to stumble. This is where we differ. There is a casual fanbase, and there is also a technical fanbase who wants to see this survival game thrive with a solid balanced structure. If the casual people are casual, then will they even mind this technical suggestion?
Not everybody has the ability to immediately farm multiple types of food? They can learn. If they don't learn, then they can still live on one type of food. Those who learn systems are rewarded. Case closed. That is my opinion, and I am happy that you have yours.
...Hopefully this system will be in place.
That is, I would implement a system similar to this suggested system, and then I would refine things for purposes of difficulty relative to how the game plays with the new system. I would not strive to keep the hunger system balanced with how it currently stands. In a nutshell and to run with an analogy you already used: The player has too many steak knives. We may need to take some away in order to fix balancing issues; but that is alright, because we are focusing on building a foundation with new standards.
Of course it has. That is why Minecraft has a hunger system.
I understand your point regarding Phantoms. However, when discussing what is enjoyable, it is often beneficial to remember that "enjoyable" is subjective. Phantoms likely make the game enjoyable for many people, even if those people do not speak out.
Phantoms were voted into the game, were they not?
No upsides in a sense and relative to the old system. It is a direct upgrade because it solves balancing issues and gives many obsolete items a strong purpose.
There are additional mechanics; the fatigue mechanic.
Instead of replying to your post and explaining that saying OP's suggestion is balanced and current hunger is completely flawed is opinionated, I tried finding a different way to explain what I'm trying to convey. And that's why I spent the past three hours creating a post of how I'd make the fatigue system work in a way that doesn't only bring diet-based restrictions.
.
Let it be noted that I spent four hours writing this.
.
One of the things I don't think you picked up on is that I also think hunger could be improved. However, while I also dislike how steak can be farmed easily for the best food source in the game, I personally feel it would be far more effective to promote farming multiple types of food instead of just one.
.
Going back the "thirst bar suggestions sound similar to what OP wants" for a second. Almost every thirst bar suggestion I've seen was something along the lines of "if you don't drink water, you will gain slowness and nausea effects before dying." The criticisms revolve around how this will cripple exploration what with having to lug around bottles of water everywhere and how this would make long-term Nether travel almost impossible due to a lack of infinite sources. So I came up with my own idea for a thirst bar. 1.9 reduced outside-combat health regeneration by greatly increasing regeneration's drain on the saturation bar. My idea was an invisible thirst bar, like the saturation bar, that would revert a player to the 1.8 saturation fatigue when at 15 or higher thirst. By this method, both sides are pleased. It doesn't affect those who don't want it. And those who do feel they could get away with carrying a few glass bottles would be rewarded with a higher regeneration rate.
.
Actually, now that I think about it (I've currently been writing this for about two hours and have two sentences from the next paragraph), OP's system would be ineffective at best. A player could carry around steak, porkchops, cooked salmon and pumpkin pie. Maybe add in golden carrots. All of them are the most effective foods in their category. Pigs and cows are easy to farm, plus they are affected by Looting. Players can buy at least four pumpkin pies at a time for one emerald with farmer villagers. Cooked salmon would technically be the hardest to obtain but not by much. Especially when guardians and the new "fish mob cap" as of last night are counted.
.
That's four slots for food. Four wasted slots of an ender chest. Then the problem shows itself. A player could eat steak until fatigued, then switch to pork. When pork fatigues them, switch to pumpkin pies that they will be able to eat the longest. Once pies are fatigued, steak could be back to normal. If not, move onwards to cooked salmon.
.
That's the problem with this idea. If the player eats the pork or pumpkin pie to the point of fatigue and steak is regenerated, the system can easily be exploited and therefore not only adds in a dozen unnecessary mechanics but is also fully redundant due to being exploitable. On the other hand, if the player goes through four of the best stackable foods, all of which are some of the best food sources in each category and the first still isn't regenerated, then the fatigue value is way too high and will make exploration nearly impossible, as all players would need at least a Silk Touch pickaxe, eight obsidian and Nether access to make sure their inventory isn't filled to the brim with food.
.
And one final note I just thought of before I return to how I'd handle the idea. Mojang designed 1.16 to make survival in only the Nether without ever returning to the overworld (as evidenced by the Respawn Anchor) possible. The only food sources in the Nether are Rotten Flesh and Raw/Cooked Porkchops. I doubt Mojang would spend that long on an update only to essentially make the point of it irrelevant soon afterward.
.
.
This same method could be applied to the OP's idea. There would still be three categories: meat, plants and seafood. There can still be fatigue so long as it does not significantly cripple a player's ability to eat. The fatigue should be based around a default value of four hunger points (two full bars) in terms of fatigue. I'd say probably every ten to twelve (I'll use 12 for this) of one food eaten within a certain period of time (maybe a week, or 140 minutes) would give them a hidden fatigue value for that specific food. Since it's based on a two-bar system, that means food like steak and pork would instead fatigue after six consumptions. Bread would work out to be something like 9 or 10 consumptions. Sweet berries and melons would fatigue after twenty-four consumptions. Raw potatoes and tropical fish could be consumed a whopping 48 times each.
Each day at midnight (or whenever the Minecraft day counter shifts up one), each food's bar would drop inversely proportional to saturation, but no fewer than one. The number also rounds to the closest whole number. The fewer the saturation points, the hungrier you'd be after eating them, and thus the more of them you can eat after rolling back. Effectively, fatigue only lasts for the remainder of the day as such. However, if you don't eat from other categories, you'd only be able to eat one more steak before returning to a fatigued state.
.
Since the highest fatigue not including the Saturation potion effect would be a golden carrot's 14.4, cooked chicken's 7.2 would be the default. You'd be able to consume one more cooked chicken at rollover so long as the counter has not already reached zero. Dividing 7.2 by the base saturation gives a general idea of how much each food should restore at rollover.
Baked Potato: 1.2, rounds to 1
Beetroot: 6
Beetroot Soup: 1 -> 2 (soup)
Bread: 1.2 -> 1
Cake (slice): 18 (cake would count per-slice instead of as a whole and thus would be much higher. This roughly translates to 2.5 cakes)
Carrot: 2
Chorus Fruit: 3
Cooked Chicken: 1
Cooked Cod: 1.2 -> 1 (will only put 1 when it would round to 1 from here on out)
Cooked Mutton: 1
Cooked Porkchop: 1
Cooked Rabbit: 1
Cooked Salmon: 1
Cookie: 18
Dried Kelp: 12
Golden Apples: 1
Enchanted Golden Apples: so rare they couldn't be used as a food source, so they have no fatigue
Golden Carrot: 1
Honey Bottle: 6
Melon Slice: 6
Mushroom Stew: 1 -> 3 (stew)
Poisonous Potato: 60% chance to poison makes it a useless food source, would have no fatigue
Potato: 12
Pufferfish: always gives poison 4 and hunger 3, would not fatigue
Pumpkin Pie: 1.5 -> 2 (rounding) -> 3 (pie)
Rabbit Stew: 1 -> 4 (stew)
Raw Beef: 4
Raw Chicken: 6
Raw Cod: 18
Raw Mutton: 6
Raw Porkchop: 4
Raw Rabbit: 4
Raw Salmon: 18
Rotten Flesh: 9
Spider Eye: only two hunger points and gives poison, no fatigue
Steak: 1
Suspicious Stew: 1 -> 4 (stew)
Sweet Berries: 18
Tropical Fish: 36
I did take a few liberties. Namely, enchanted golden apples can only be found in desert temples, and very rarely. There is no reasonable way for a player to obtain so many and need to consume them frequently enough as to require a fatigue value. One could argue Creative mode, but at that point, there's really no need to rebalance for Survival purposes. And they're magical apples. As such, I decided enchanted variants don't need fatigue. This does not apply to regular golden apples.
.
I also went with OP's idea to focus on complex crafting, so I increased the number of soups, stews and pies that decrease at rollover. Rabbit stew and suspicious stew are the most complex to craft. As such, they received the highest bonuses. However, I still believe rabbit stew and beetroot soup require buffs so they are better dishes than the sum of their ingredients.
.
Finally, I looked at Poisonous Potatoes, Pufferfish and Spider Eyes and decided the low food benefits and high rate/chance of poisoning made them worthless foods regardless. As such, they lack any fatigue system since anyone who consumes one would already be damaged enough by their default effects.
.
.
And now, the "upside" part I've planned out. If you want to give something a benefit without reworking entire mechanics, use potion effects.
Meat consists of proteins of which make up muscles. So it would be reasonable for every few meats a player eats to give at least twenty seconds of muscle-based effects. I'm thinking specifically Strength 1 for something like 30-40 seconds and Regeneration 1 for five seconds. That way, players would be incentivized to bring meat with them when they plan on fighting a ton of enemies, such as in woodland mansions and End Cities.
Plants contain more energy than meats due to how energy transfers through food chain. The player, as such, would receive more of this energy. I think it's fair to say that every few plants would give potion effects that represent this. Maybe thirty seconds of Speed 1, Jump Boost 1 and Haste 1 for a minute would be available. That way, a player would be incentivized to bring fruits not necessarily for exploration purposes but rather when they have to clear a large area.
I can't think of anything for seafood, so it should serve as more of an "all-arounder". Fish could give twenty seconds of Night Vision, a minute of Luck or Luck 2, thirty seconds of Water Breathing, and potentially even a minute of the unobtainable Health Boost. Night Vision and Water Breathing would help with exploration, Health Boost would aid in combat even more than Absorption, and Luck would help when fishing for treasure.
Alternatively, each potion effect for that category could have a random chance of triggering whenever a food from it is consumed.
Watch out for the crabocalypse. Some say the day will never come. But it will.
Feel free to drop by for a chat whenever.
If you'd like to talk with me about other games, here are a few I play.
Team Fortress 2
Borderlands series (Borderlands 2 is my favorite game, ever. TPS combat is a lot of fun and makes up for the lower-quality story, in my opinion)
Elder Scrolls series
Warframe (IGN is something like That_One_Flesh_Atronach)
Pokémon series (HGSS forever)
Rocket League
Fallout series
Left 4 Dead 2 (Boomer files always corrupt though)
SUPERHOT (SUPERHOT is the most innovative shooter I've played in years!)
Dead Rising series (Dead Rising 2 is one of my favorite games, and the 3rd was a lot of fun. 1st has poor survivor AI and the 4th is bad)
Just Cause series
Come to think of it, I mainly play fighting-based games.
Ope, posted twice.
Everything in Minecraft makes sence
Just going to point out the floating rocks and trees, the diamonds being molded into wearable pants, the buckets full of lava, the skeletons capable of pulling back a bow string, let alone stand, without any muscles, and the apples, carrots, and melons being combined with gold, which would definitely result in severe heavy metal poisoning... and the spelling mistake.