While I agree with your ideas, I find it's kind of pretentious to just shrug them off with "trust me, it'll upset the balance."
The fact of the matter is, all you can really narrow Minecraft down to is its namesake: Mining materials and crafting with those materials. Technology has nothing to do with it. Time has nothing to do with it. Minecraft is a game in which the player is tasked with mining materials in order to build objects and structures as he so desires. I mean, there's no such thing as a pickaxe made of diamonds. Ever.
Guns - Just get a mod, there's not enough community support. No real reason, except few people want them.
Weaker Creepers - Options -> Peaceful
Obsidian Tools - While I'm not sure about Obsidian tools, I do think there needs to be another unique use for Obsidian, aside from portals. (Because I've been to the Nether, once, and it bored me to death)
Diamond drop - Oh, just get Invedit if you want diamonds. I can't even think of a way for Mobs to justify being filled with diamonds.
Nukes - SuperTNT mod (Or Invedit some more TNT into your inventory)
Cars - I know no vehicle capable of jumping up one-meter spaces.
Levels, stats - Well, maybe in the coming Adventure Mode. Sounds fun for that, but not Survival.
Focus your suggestion energies on things the game actually needs, like a new water system, and streamlining its memory consumption. I still think Java was a poor language to write it in.
Oh, and doubling Map Height would only require using the negative side of the data variables that hold Chunks, which would not increase memory consumption, as it requires the entire range of the variable to be loaded, in the first place. (Source(s): Knows Java) The problem is backwards compatibility, as all chunks would have to be updated. That said, the actual code to implement a map height change would require little, and would be almost entirely revision to the map generator. (Which is getting to need it, anyway)
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-SchizophrenicMC
Why do we have a Suggestions section if everyone shoots everyone else down? I suggest renaming it the Flame War section. Pun intended.
If you may I would like to add to your list or things the following.
Map Height Size
Changing the vertical size of the map is nearly impossible, and will take days of rewriting and trouble shooting to implement. It will insanely increase lag because the game loads and edits the map in vertical bottom to ceiling of the map chunks, double this and it guess what happens. There is a ton of hard coding limitations to keep the map its current height, and there is also a lot of soft coded limitations too (they cause bugs). Notch will not change it and has said so before. If a modder wanted to change this, he or she would have to rewrite a TON of code, and any maps made with the new dimensions will not work properly with existing maps, and a lot of other things.
Just accept it as impossible.
Quote from SchizophrenicMC »
Oh, and doubling Map Height would only require using the negative side of the data variables that hold Chunks, which would not increase memory consumption, as it requires the entire range of the variable to be loaded, in the first place. (Source(s): Knows Java) The problem is backwards compatibility, as all chunks would have to be updated. That said, the actual code to implement a map height change would require little, and would be almost entirely revision to the map generator. (Which is getting to need it, anyway)
Possible work around for backwards compatibility/lag: height is a map specific variable, old maps stay the same size, new ones let you chose between awsome larger or less memory intensive original flavor.
they see Notch's "no guns" statement, and decide that that's final.
Notch. Game creator. Has all say on everything about the game. Think about it.
Eh. That shouldn't stop any actual serious discussion about the suggestion. Who says Notch cant change his mind, right? It annoys me when people just parrot the statement when going onto threads about guns.
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~ I've thought about the phrase 'Money is the root of all evil' and I have to disagree. Evil isn't dependant on an object. I say that want is the root of all evil.
Oh, and doubling Map Height would only require using the negative side of the data variables that hold Chunks, which would not increase memory consumption, as it requires the entire range of the variable to be loaded, in the first place. (Source(s): Knows Java) The problem is backwards compatibility, as all chunks would have to be updated. That said, the actual code to implement a map height change would require little, and would be almost entirely revision to the map generator. (Which is getting to need it, anyway)
Possible work around for backwards compatibility/lag: height is a map specific variable, old maps stay the same size, new ones let you chose between awsome larger or less memory intensive original flavor.
You have to think about the way the maps are rendered in game. Every chunk is a 16X16X128block piece. Every block you raise the ceiling creates another 256 blocks that have to be rendered every time that chunk is loaded into memory. So another 4 blocks high (which isn't much) would generate an extra 1024 blocks per chunk, it wouldn't take long before even the super mega OMG uber gaming rigs would start bogging down, let alone the "typical" desktop that your average player uses. Not to mention what that would do to SMP server overhead
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The first guns were invented near the end of the medieval period, long before minecarts, tnt, the steam engine (powered minecart), and jukeboxes were first created. They fit well into the time period of minecraft.
Also, guns are disgustingly easy to balance out. If the weapon required, say, 1 cobblestone and 1 gunpowder per shot, had a 2-3 second delay between shots, and did, say, 5 damage, it'd be at most on par with the bow with firepower, and far more expensive to use at that. More, it'd actually open up a unique combat style for ranged users.
The real reason people don't want guns in minecraft, is that they generally either blindly assume that the weapon would be overpowered/futuristic, or that they see Notch's "no guns" statement, and decide that that's final.
Don't act like the authority on the matter without an understanding of game balance, or of what people actually suggest when talking about guns.
First off, if you're going to point out facts, do them in a respectful manner. I don't believe I've treated you (or anyone on these forums for that matter) in any disrespectful way. Immaturity like "derp" just takes away from the general value of your post. Now, reread what I have in my section on guns. I never claimed Minecraft to be in any set period, I just claimed that we tend to know when lines have been crossed. I say "trust me" because I don't want to make the paragraphs much too long. However, you claim that placing guns in Minecraft would be easy to balance out.
I'm not acting like the "authority" on the matter, I am voicing the opinions of many members. Need proof? Look around the forums and you'll see what I mean. Personally, I feel that guns are unnecessary since nerfing down modern guns would render the gun at the same place as the bow and arrow, in which case, you might as well use a bow and arrow. No one is asking you to change your opinion, simply to realize why these things are generally not wanted in Minecraft. However, if you insist that the gun can be balanced and should be included, then by all means, suggest it. No one is stopping you.
Quote from SchizophrenicMC »
While I agree with your ideas, I find it's kind of pretentious to just shrug them off with "trust me, it'll upset the balance."
The fact of the matter is, all you can really narrow Minecraft down to is its namesake: Mining materials and crafting with those materials. Technology has nothing to do with it. Time has nothing to do with it. Minecraft is a game in which the player is tasked with mining materials in order to build objects and structures as he so desires. I mean, there's no such thing as a pickaxe made of diamonds. Ever.
I'll stop posting "trust me" and I'll try to include other reasons. You're right that technology has nothing to do with it, but you have to admit that when you think of compact, complex machinery in Minecraft, it does seem like it would disrupt the feel. But, that's just between you and me. Others may disagree. Also, I own a pickaxe made of diamonds! (Just kidding. :tongue.gif:)
@SergeDavid, I don't want to include that one. That may actually end up happening. It depends on Notch more than on members. :x
Mr. Torb is right. The thing is a lot of the gun threads on this forums take the COD guns, rename it, then put it up here.
Or they basically make bow and arrow but with steel.
Mr. Torb the gun you mentioned ... I am okay with! It is like in Assassin's Creed II with the little gun? They introduced a fire arm (not necessarily a gun) and it was well balanced and fit the game nicely. The gun you mentioned merits people to look at your idea/thread if you were to make one. This thread is just to siphon out those who are willy nilly and and not so much of a suggestions thread but a wish list. As a near senior member I think it is to your knowledge that well-developed, balanced, well-placed, neutral [as in players who like to build, craft, design, adventure, will find uses to it] posts that are on "forbidden" topics on this list are still valid.
Once again, this is a post meant to weed out all unnecessary posts.
Those of you who are our seniors in forums need to help younger member's realize what is the right way to achieve things and this is what this thread does.
I'm not acting like the "authority" on the matter, I am voicing the opinions of many members. Need proof? Look around the forums and you'll see what I mean.
Yeah, you were. Making a whole thread about "What not to suggest", spicing it up with a hint of pretention, and acting like you know better than anyone who's planning on suggesting what you dislike is acting like the authority on the matter.
Now, reread what I have in my section on guns. I never claimed Minecraft to be in any set period, I just claimed that we tend to know when lines have been crossed. I say "trust me" because I don't want to make the paragraphs much too long. However, you claim that placing guns in Minecraft would be easy to balance out.
Claiming "futuristic" is establishing a period. I gave examples of how, say, matchlock rifles and such fit in said period. There were guns in the medieval ages. I then proceded to, off the top of my head, make an example of a weapon balanced against the rest of the game.
Personally, I feel that guns are unnecessary since nerfing down modern guns would render the gun at the same place as the bow and arrow, in which case, you might as well use a bow and arrow. No one is asking you to change your opinion, simply to realize why these things are generally not wanted in Minecraft.
And here is why I went "Derp". You realize that guns did exist in medieval times, right? And that those are what basically all recent "guns" threads have been suggesting? It annoyed me that you didn't look into the issue further before making a thread about it.
...
Im sorry I was a bit of a **** about the whole thing, though. The "stop suggesting (X)" threads have been getting on my nerves, as were the glaring logical fallacies present in most anti-gun people's arguements. I can respect things like "It'd ruin the survival feel of the game" or "This suggestion is unbalanced, because:".
What I just can't respect is when people assume that all people who suggest guns are suggesting ak-47's and rocket launchers.
Quote from MindCraft2.0 »
Mr. Torb is right. The thing is a lot of the gun threads on this forums take the COD guns, rename it, then put it up here.
Or they basically make bow and arrow but with steel.
Mr. Torb the gun you mentioned ... I am okay with! It is like in Assassin's Creed II with the little gun? They introduced a fire arm (not necessarily a gun) and it was well balanced and fit the game nicely. The gun you mentioned merits people to look at your idea/thread if you were to make one. This thread is just to siphon out those who are willy nilly and and not so much of a suggestions thread but a wish list. As a near senior member I think it is to your knowledge that well-developed, balanced, well-placed, neutral [as in players who like to build, craft, design, adventure, will find uses to it] posts that are on "forbidden" topics on this list are still valid.
Once again, this is a post meant to weed out all unnecessary posts.
Those of you who are our seniors in forums need to help younger member's realize what is the right way to achieve things and this is what this thread does.
Once again kudos to you GmMkr.
Hmm. I see your point, Mind. I was seeing the thread more as a "Anyone who suggests these is an idiot, trust me, I know better than you" thread than anything else. And that irked me since guns were lumped in with the nukes, diamond dropping mobs, and cars. If this thread is directed at the newer members, then I just made quite the ass of myself, haven't I? :]
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~ I've thought about the phrase 'Money is the root of all evil' and I have to disagree. Evil isn't dependant on an object. I say that want is the root of all evil.
@Mr. Torb: This isn't a list of things that I don't like. You're misinterpreting my topic, and that may be my fault for not making the purpose clear enough. If you feel that the gun section needs to be changed, just revise it and tell me. The whole point of the topic is to stop useless suggestions. If you can suggest a gun that's balanced, then your suggestion is not being negated by this topic. This is more to stop the newer members from posting blatantly overpowered/ridiculous suggestions. That's it.
Like MindCraft2.0 said: If you can make a well thought out suggestion, then by all means, do it. This topic isn't against that. I'll try to make the purpose clearer.
You forgot flame arrows and new ideas for torch related ideas. We have flame arrows already and when I mean by torch related ideas, I mean stuff about giving torches more effects and dying them (I bet you will be able to do that with lanterns eventually). I do think fire, lava, and glow-stone should give a wider light distance than they are now. I don't think this thread will help much because the people who post down already used or dumb ideas are the people who sign up and immediately post down whatever was in their head. I support creativity and originality!
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I am just a guy looking for good suggestions that are original, creative, and match the theme of Mine-craft. I have some mob ideas that I need help forming which is a community project.
Legendary Weapons, like Excalibur, Laevateinn, Masamune, Frostmourne, Tetsusaiga and Durandal. We do not need super special legendary weapons in this game to eviscerate creepers in one hit and level entire mountains with one hit. This is not a hack and slash adventure game where you level entire waves of enemies and become an ultimate warrior of Minecraft. It's a survival game, where generally being cautious and level-headed is needed to avoid getting overrun by monsters and being able to handle them, not implementing godlike power to destroy all monsters. Even lower level special swords like Flametongue, Frostblades, Lightning swords, Netherswords, Sting, Morgul blades or any other specialized magical weaponry will get you weird looks. If you can't handle a Creeper or a Skeleton with a Bow or a Diamond Sword, practice some more.
Actually I think obsidian tools (with twice the durability of diamond) would be great. It'd be a much better justification for having the block in the first place, and I always thought that for the rarity of diamond and for representing the upper limit of tools, they sure break fast.
Also, mining obsidian sucks, what are you smoking?. It's a unique...ly unfun aspect of minecraft. The other blocks are well balanced, but obsidian is just extreme.
Also, mining obsidian sucks, what are you smoking?. It's a unique...ly unfun aspect of minecraft. The other blocks are well balanced, but obsidian is just extreme.
cast it with lava and water. Also, you don't actually need it, so don't use it beyond making a portal.
Yeah, that works, but it's still an extra step that takes a lot of time and overcomplicates things. As it is, obsidian is hardly worth the trouble of existing at all.
Yeah, that works, but it's still an extra step that takes a lot of time and overcomplicates things. As it is, obsidian is hardly worth the trouble of existing at all.
Obsidian is extremely easy to come across. Making it stronger than diamond would mean that you only need to find diamond once, and from that point on, just mine obsidian. Also, I said how strong it is makes it unique; I never said it made it enjoyable. If you don't like mining it, don't mine it? o.O
Presumably the point of minecraft is to be enjoyable?. :/
Still you make a good point, though mine still stands that mining obsidian is pure frustration for very little benefit. At the very least it needs work.
it's useful for resisting explosions. If you need something explosion proof, make it out of obsidian. Or, you can douse it in water so that the explosion does not destroy anything.
dev team is still planning on adding a lot more content, so consider the obsidian may potentially interact with this new content later.
The reason that people don't like guns is, I think, mainly because every time someone suggests them it's always overpowered or too easy to craft or easy ammunition or WHATEVER. And when you think about it, they wouldn't like it either if it was as you said, 2-3 second fire delay, etc. You can't balance that out in this society. Make it strong, they hate it. Make it weak, they hate it. Stick with the bow and arrows, they love it.
See what I'm saying?
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The fact of the matter is, all you can really narrow Minecraft down to is its namesake: Mining materials and crafting with those materials. Technology has nothing to do with it. Time has nothing to do with it. Minecraft is a game in which the player is tasked with mining materials in order to build objects and structures as he so desires. I mean, there's no such thing as a pickaxe made of diamonds. Ever.
Guns - Just get a mod, there's not enough community support. No real reason, except few people want them.
Weaker Creepers - Options -> Peaceful
Obsidian Tools - While I'm not sure about Obsidian tools, I do think there needs to be another unique use for Obsidian, aside from portals. (Because I've been to the Nether, once, and it bored me to death)
Diamond drop - Oh, just get Invedit if you want diamonds. I can't even think of a way for Mobs to justify being filled with diamonds.
Nukes - SuperTNT mod (Or Invedit some more TNT into your inventory)
Cars - I know no vehicle capable of jumping up one-meter spaces.
Levels, stats - Well, maybe in the coming Adventure Mode. Sounds fun for that, but not Survival.
Focus your suggestion energies on things the game actually needs, like a new water system, and streamlining its memory consumption. I still think Java was a poor language to write it in.
Oh, and doubling Map Height would only require using the negative side of the data variables that hold Chunks, which would not increase memory consumption, as it requires the entire range of the variable to be loaded, in the first place. (Source(s): Knows Java) The problem is backwards compatibility, as all chunks would have to be updated. That said, the actual code to implement a map height change would require little, and would be almost entirely revision to the map generator. (Which is getting to need it, anyway)
-SchizophrenicMC
Why do we have a Suggestions section if everyone shoots everyone else down? I suggest renaming it the Flame War section. Pun intended.
Possible work around for backwards compatibility/lag: height is a map specific variable, old maps stay the same size, new ones let you chose between awsome larger or less memory intensive original flavor.
Eh. That shouldn't stop any actual serious discussion about the suggestion. Who says Notch cant change his mind, right? It annoys me when people just parrot the statement when going onto threads about guns.
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Curse PremiumYou have to think about the way the maps are rendered in game. Every chunk is a 16X16X128block piece. Every block you raise the ceiling creates another 256 blocks that have to be rendered every time that chunk is loaded into memory. So another 4 blocks high (which isn't much) would generate an extra 1024 blocks per chunk, it wouldn't take long before even the super mega OMG uber gaming rigs would start bogging down, let alone the "typical" desktop that your average player uses. Not to mention what that would do to SMP server overhead
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First off, if you're going to point out facts, do them in a respectful manner. I don't believe I've treated you (or anyone on these forums for that matter) in any disrespectful way. Immaturity like "derp" just takes away from the general value of your post. Now, reread what I have in my section on guns. I never claimed Minecraft to be in any set period, I just claimed that we tend to know when lines have been crossed. I say "trust me" because I don't want to make the paragraphs much too long. However, you claim that placing guns in Minecraft would be easy to balance out.
I'm not acting like the "authority" on the matter, I am voicing the opinions of many members. Need proof? Look around the forums and you'll see what I mean. Personally, I feel that guns are unnecessary since nerfing down modern guns would render the gun at the same place as the bow and arrow, in which case, you might as well use a bow and arrow. No one is asking you to change your opinion, simply to realize why these things are generally not wanted in Minecraft. However, if you insist that the gun can be balanced and should be included, then by all means, suggest it. No one is stopping you.
I'll stop posting "trust me" and I'll try to include other reasons. You're right that technology has nothing to do with it, but you have to admit that when you think of compact, complex machinery in Minecraft, it does seem like it would disrupt the feel. But, that's just between you and me. Others may disagree. Also, I own a pickaxe made of diamonds! (Just kidding. :tongue.gif:)
@SergeDavid, I don't want to include that one. That may actually end up happening. It depends on Notch more than on members. :x
Or they basically make bow and arrow but with steel.
Mr. Torb the gun you mentioned ... I am okay with! It is like in Assassin's Creed II with the little gun? They introduced a fire arm (not necessarily a gun) and it was well balanced and fit the game nicely. The gun you mentioned merits people to look at your idea/thread if you were to make one. This thread is just to siphon out those who are willy nilly and and not so much of a suggestions thread but a wish list. As a near senior member I think it is to your knowledge that well-developed, balanced, well-placed, neutral [as in players who like to build, craft, design, adventure, will find uses to it] posts that are on "forbidden" topics on this list are still valid.
Once again, this is a post meant to weed out all unnecessary posts.
Those of you who are our seniors in forums need to help younger member's realize what is the right way to achieve things and this is what this thread does.
Once again kudos to you GmMkr.
Yeah, you were. Making a whole thread about "What not to suggest", spicing it up with a hint of pretention, and acting like you know better than anyone who's planning on suggesting what you dislike is acting like the authority on the matter.
Claiming "futuristic" is establishing a period. I gave examples of how, say, matchlock rifles and such fit in said period. There were guns in the medieval ages. I then proceded to, off the top of my head, make an example of a weapon balanced against the rest of the game.
And here is why I went "Derp". You realize that guns did exist in medieval times, right? And that those are what basically all recent "guns" threads have been suggesting? It annoyed me that you didn't look into the issue further before making a thread about it.
...
Im sorry I was a bit of a **** about the whole thing, though. The "stop suggesting (X)" threads have been getting on my nerves, as were the glaring logical fallacies present in most anti-gun people's arguements. I can respect things like "It'd ruin the survival feel of the game" or "This suggestion is unbalanced, because:".
What I just can't respect is when people assume that all people who suggest guns are suggesting ak-47's and rocket launchers.
Hmm. I see your point, Mind. I was seeing the thread more as a "Anyone who suggests these is an idiot, trust me, I know better than you" thread than anything else. And that irked me since guns were lumped in with the nukes, diamond dropping mobs, and cars. If this thread is directed at the newer members, then I just made quite the ass of myself, haven't I? :]
Like MindCraft2.0 said: If you can make a well thought out suggestion, then by all means, do it. This topic isn't against that. I'll try to make the purpose clearer.
How, if we shoot arrows through fire or lava all you get is an arrow with the fire graphic, nothing more.
Yea, I always wondered if that actually altered the arrow's damage.
Also, mining obsidian sucks, what are you smoking?. It's a unique...ly unfun aspect of minecraft. The other blocks are well balanced, but obsidian is just extreme.
cast it with lava and water. Also, you don't actually need it, so don't use it beyond making a portal.
Obsidian is extremely easy to come across. Making it stronger than diamond would mean that you only need to find diamond once, and from that point on, just mine obsidian. Also, I said how strong it is makes it unique; I never said it made it enjoyable. If you don't like mining it, don't mine it? o.O
Still you make a good point, though mine still stands that mining obsidian is pure frustration for very little benefit. At the very least it needs work.
dev team is still planning on adding a lot more content, so consider the obsidian may potentially interact with this new content later.
Make.
Sticky.
See what I'm saying?
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