Allowing spawners to be relocated would allow the creation of far more… …intense mob farms. With several spawners, spawn rates could be brought into the range currently only achievable with large (and well isolated) platform farms.
Even were one spawner to suppress the output of others, simply being able to position a single [active] spawner as one pleased would greatly simplify spawner based mob farm design.
Given the general opposition to various forms of high efficiency farming, I would expect considerable resistance to the idea from those who already consider drop farms to be item duplicators. [That you are well accompanied in your desire, however, is evidenced by the existance of a number of mods that restore the spawner obtainable with silk touch feature removed in Beta1.9pre5…]
Players having access to large quantities of mob drops is a non-issue for me [with attempts to prevent this are unlikely to do more than annoy some players and fragment the community], but I consider the challenge of developing a 'poorly placed'*1 spawner to be part of the fun of the game.
Additionally, in competitive SMP, this change would make spawners another piece of high value loot to be horded rather than a way to encourage players to explore and develop multiple areas
While adding this wouldn't be the end of MC, I'd prefer spawners remain unrelocatable in survival.
*1 Examples:
so low that bedrock interferes with dropping the mobs out of the exclusion zone
zombie spawner in ocena biome (post 1.13) as water to move mobs may create drowned, potentially useful if gold is desired, but sacraficing many equipment drops.
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"Why does everything have to be so stoopid?" Harvey Pekar (from American Splendor)
WARNING: I have an extemely "grindy" playstyle; YMMV — if this doesn't seem fun to you, mine what you can from it & bin the rest.
That you are well accompanied in your desire, however, is evidenced by the existance of a number of mods that restore the spawner obtainable with silk touch feature removed in Beta1.9pre5…
Mods much more commonly go the creative/nbt route by implementing tools to literally grab the cage itself and move it wherever. Some are extremely cheap, consisting of 5 sticks and a single diamond, and allow you to move almost every type of non-survival block in the game (I think only barriers and bedrock are exempt, but this is both non-universally applied and usually something that can be edited in a config file).
Additionally, in competitive SMP, this change would make spawners another piece of high value loot to be horded rather than a way to encourage players to explore and develop multiple areas
In vanilla smp. A large portion of servers in general already use plugins and mods to alter the way natural spawning works (sometimes to the point of completely turning it off). Obviously this is not something that the core game should take into consideration, but it does demonstrate that the overall playerbase has long since adopted a valuables-hoarding mentality. THAT, unfortunately, is what vanilla Minecraft will have to deal with.
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I don't like this idea at all since it removes much of the challenge associated with finding and building grinders. For instance finding a double-blaze spawner in the nether is a rare thing and adapting the spawners into an effective grinder is a dangerous and expensive process, this makes sense considering the necessity of blaze rods for potion brewing, stronghold locating, and considering the drop can be used to fuel furnaces. Creating a piston funnel in the nether, while blazes rain down on you, is not an easy task but the rewards from a double-blaze spawner make it worth it. If a player could simply silk-touch (a common lvl30 enchant for picks) a blaze spawner, then another, then another, then another- they could move them all to the overworld and create a multi-spawner blaze farm much larger then minecraft intends and with a minuscule fraction of the work needed to build a conventional farm. Skeleton spawners would also become incredibly overpowered as people pluck them out of the overworld and move them to the nether. Last time I checked a skeleton spawner placed in the nether starts spitting out wither skeletons which would make for a quick and easy way to grind out wither skulls, coal and ultimately nether stars which are all 3 items Mojang doesn't seem to have any intention of making farmable.
Mojang removed the ability for silk touch tools to pick up mob spawners in 2011 and I really doubt they'll ever add it back.
The only reason mob spawners exist is to spawn mobs when natural spawning wouldn't be enough, and even then they do a poor job of it in vanilla since they set their spawn rates so low (up to 40 seconds between attempts). They shouldn't really even spawn mobs that drop loot and XP, or only a limited amount - as Mojang once considered:
MaxExperience, RemainingExperience, ExperienceRegenTick, ExperienceRegenRate and ExperienceRegenAmount from MobSpawner have now been removed.
In fact, I implemented something very similar; if a spawner spawns too many mobs too quickly they will stop dropping loot and XP after about 50 mobs have spawned, more than enough so a person who comes across them while caving (i.e. myself) is unlikely to reach the limit by the time they kill all the mobs and destroy/deactivate the spawner. This also balances out the fact that nearly all Overworld mobs can spawn from them and at far faster rates (I also severely nerf many other types of farms; e.g. want a gold/iron farm? You have to kill the iron golems/zombie pigmen yourself - there is no real reason either considering the sheer amount of iron I mine while caving, about 200 per hour and hundreds of thousands in one world (ironically, most players need that much iron for hoppers used in farms, otherwise, you don't really need that much at all, especially after you get diamond gear).
As for obtaining spawners, I do think that they could drop an "empty spawner" block* which is solely used for decorative purposes (or to show how many you've found), as I implemented myself (including fixing the statistics so you can see how many you've mined (over 3,200 in one world - they are more common than popularly believed, even in versions since 1.7, where they are rarer - you just need to go caving to find most of them). I even made it so that you can use a flint and steel on an empty spawner to light it up, emitting a light level of 15 with spawner particles:
Also, while Silk Touch is needed to mine the actual spawner it is not needed for empty spawners, and unlike ores they always drop XP since they do not drop themselves:
*It would also be possible to simply drop the spawner block itself and have them be empty by default when placed since you'd need a spawn egg, which are unobtainable without cheats, to make them actually work, although it is better to use a separate block without a tile entity for performance reasons.
While I like this for the sake of consistency, this idea is way too overpowered. My suggested change is to have mobs drop NOTHING when killed. No experience or loot will drop. Instead, the mobs will vanish into black particles. This way, they are used as defenders of the loot inside the dungeon chests.
Hile I like this for the sake of consistency, this idea is way too overpowered. My suggested change is to have mobs drop NOTHING when killed. No experience or loot will drop. Instead, the mobs will vanish into black particles. This way, they are used as defenders of the loot inside the dungeon chests.
I agree. In fact, all mobs spawned out of spawners should drop nothing (no loot, no XP, no equipment) when killed whatsoever.
I agree. In fact, all mobs spawned out of spawners should drop nothing (no loot, no XP, no equipment) when killed whatsoever.
I think that is a bit too harsh; a solution like I proposed would be much better, allowing "legit" players like myself to get some rewards from killing mobs as they come across them while caving, destroying the spawner after they find them, while preventing people from farming them since the mobs they spawn will stop dropping loot after a while (I also provide a reset function but it takes quite a long time to fully reset; depending on the spawn rate the threshold can get as high as 50000 - that's 2500 seconds or 41.7 minutes to fully count back down to 0 at the rate of one per tick, with each mob spawned increasing it by 1000, meaning that they can sustain a spawn rate of just one mob every 50 seconds without tripping it (the threshold is lower for longer spawn delays and lower spawn counts to keep the number of mobs required at 50 since the countdown between spawns is greater; the counter is also capped at 1000 ticks above the threshold). Actual spawn rates can reach up to one mob every 1.67 seconds in the case of zombies/skeletons/spiders/silverfish (5-15 seconds per spawn cycle and up to 6 mobs per cycle and 12 nearby; this compares to 10-40 seconds and 4/6 mobs in vanilla).
If you really want to nerf mob drops you should nerf iron golems and other mobs which drop minable resources - why even bother mining when you have farms that produce all the resources that you need? Mojang even tried nerfing them in a 1.8 snapshot by making the player have to kill them themselves to get drops but they reverted it due to outrage from the community even though you could still farm them and eliminate the need for a major part of the game (Mine-craft) at a very early stage.
I was being serious on survival with a friend and never had a spawner before.. i kinda assumed you could since ive seen videos of it.. sad to know my excitment and learning to build a faem went to waste when the thing disappeared when i used silk touch. Seriously bummed out that the risk in getting it and getting lost was for nothing. Very sad indeed.
I think Spawners should be able to be picked up with Silk touch- thoughts and opinions?
Allowing spawners to be relocated would allow the creation of far more… …intense mob farms. With several spawners, spawn rates could be brought into the range currently only achievable with large (and well isolated) platform farms.
Even were one spawner to suppress the output of others, simply being able to position a single [active] spawner as one pleased would greatly simplify spawner based mob farm design.
Given the general opposition to various forms of high efficiency farming, I would expect considerable resistance to the idea from those who already consider drop farms to be item duplicators. [That you are well accompanied in your desire, however, is evidenced by the existance of a number of mods that restore the spawner obtainable with silk touch feature removed in Beta1.9pre5…]
Players having access to large quantities of mob drops is a non-issue for me [with attempts to prevent this are unlikely to do more than annoy some players and fragment the community], but I consider the challenge of developing a 'poorly placed'*1 spawner to be part of the fun of the game.
Additionally, in competitive SMP, this change would make spawners another piece of high value loot to be horded rather than a way to encourage players to explore and develop multiple areas
While adding this wouldn't be the end of MC, I'd prefer spawners remain unrelocatable in survival.
*1 Examples:
so low that bedrock interferes with dropping the mobs out of the exclusion zone
zombie spawner in ocena biome (post 1.13) as water to move mobs may create drowned, potentially useful if gold is desired, but sacraficing many equipment drops.
Mods much more commonly go the creative/nbt route by implementing tools to literally grab the cage itself and move it wherever. Some are extremely cheap, consisting of 5 sticks and a single diamond, and allow you to move almost every type of non-survival block in the game (I think only barriers and bedrock are exempt, but this is both non-universally applied and usually something that can be edited in a config file).
In vanilla smp. A large portion of servers in general already use plugins and mods to alter the way natural spawning works (sometimes to the point of completely turning it off). Obviously this is not something that the core game should take into consideration, but it does demonstrate that the overall playerbase has long since adopted a valuables-hoarding mentality. THAT, unfortunately, is what vanilla Minecraft will have to deal with.
I don't like this idea at all since it removes much of the challenge associated with finding and building grinders. For instance finding a double-blaze spawner in the nether is a rare thing and adapting the spawners into an effective grinder is a dangerous and expensive process, this makes sense considering the necessity of blaze rods for potion brewing, stronghold locating, and considering the drop can be used to fuel furnaces. Creating a piston funnel in the nether, while blazes rain down on you, is not an easy task but the rewards from a double-blaze spawner make it worth it. If a player could simply silk-touch (a common lvl30 enchant for picks) a blaze spawner, then another, then another, then another- they could move them all to the overworld and create a multi-spawner blaze farm much larger then minecraft intends and with a minuscule fraction of the work needed to build a conventional farm. Skeleton spawners would also become incredibly overpowered as people pluck them out of the overworld and move them to the nether. Last time I checked a skeleton spawner placed in the nether starts spitting out wither skeletons which would make for a quick and easy way to grind out wither skulls, coal and ultimately nether stars which are all 3 items Mojang doesn't seem to have any intention of making farmable.
Mojang removed the ability for silk touch tools to pick up mob spawners in 2011 and I really doubt they'll ever add it back.
The only reason mob spawners exist is to spawn mobs when natural spawning wouldn't be enough, and even then they do a poor job of it in vanilla since they set their spawn rates so low (up to 40 seconds between attempts). They shouldn't really even spawn mobs that drop loot and XP, or only a limited amount - as Mojang once considered:
In fact, I implemented something very similar; if a spawner spawns too many mobs too quickly they will stop dropping loot and XP after about 50 mobs have spawned, more than enough so a person who comes across them while caving (i.e. myself) is unlikely to reach the limit by the time they kill all the mobs and destroy/deactivate the spawner. This also balances out the fact that nearly all Overworld mobs can spawn from them and at far faster rates (I also severely nerf many other types of farms; e.g. want a gold/iron farm? You have to kill the iron golems/zombie pigmen yourself - there is no real reason either considering the sheer amount of iron I mine while caving, about 200 per hour and hundreds of thousands in one world (ironically, most players need that much iron for hoppers used in farms, otherwise, you don't really need that much at all, especially after you get diamond gear).
As for obtaining spawners, I do think that they could drop an "empty spawner" block* which is solely used for decorative purposes (or to show how many you've found), as I implemented myself (including fixing the statistics so you can see how many you've mined (over 3,200 in one world - they are more common than popularly believed, even in versions since 1.7, where they are rarer - you just need to go caving to find most of them). I even made it so that you can use a flint and steel on an empty spawner to light it up, emitting a light level of 15 with spawner particles:
Also, while Silk Touch is needed to mine the actual spawner it is not needed for empty spawners, and unlike ores they always drop XP since they do not drop themselves:
*It would also be possible to simply drop the spawner block itself and have them be empty by default when placed since you'd need a spawn egg, which are unobtainable without cheats, to make them actually work, although it is better to use a separate block without a tile entity for performance reasons.
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
While I like this for the sake of consistency, this idea is way too overpowered. My suggested change is to have mobs drop NOTHING when killed. No experience or loot will drop. Instead, the mobs will vanish into black particles. This way, they are used as defenders of the loot inside the dungeon chests.
I agree. In fact, all mobs spawned out of spawners should drop nothing (no loot, no XP, no equipment) when killed whatsoever.
My suggestions: Enhancements - Throwable Fire Charges - On Phantoms and Elytra. Also check out The Minecraftian Language. This signature is not here to waste your space.
I think that is a bit too harsh; a solution like I proposed would be much better, allowing "legit" players like myself to get some rewards from killing mobs as they come across them while caving, destroying the spawner after they find them, while preventing people from farming them since the mobs they spawn will stop dropping loot after a while (I also provide a reset function but it takes quite a long time to fully reset; depending on the spawn rate the threshold can get as high as 50000 - that's 2500 seconds or 41.7 minutes to fully count back down to 0 at the rate of one per tick, with each mob spawned increasing it by 1000, meaning that they can sustain a spawn rate of just one mob every 50 seconds without tripping it (the threshold is lower for longer spawn delays and lower spawn counts to keep the number of mobs required at 50 since the countdown between spawns is greater; the counter is also capped at 1000 ticks above the threshold). Actual spawn rates can reach up to one mob every 1.67 seconds in the case of zombies/skeletons/spiders/silverfish (5-15 seconds per spawn cycle and up to 6 mobs per cycle and 12 nearby; this compares to 10-40 seconds and 4/6 mobs in vanilla).
If you really want to nerf mob drops you should nerf iron golems and other mobs which drop minable resources - why even bother mining when you have farms that produce all the resources that you need? Mojang even tried nerfing them in a 1.8 snapshot by making the player have to kill them themselves to get drops but they reverted it due to outrage from the community even though you could still farm them and eliminate the need for a major part of the game (Mine-craft) at a very early stage.
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
I was being serious on survival with a friend and never had a spawner before.. i kinda assumed you could since ive seen videos of it.. sad to know my excitment and learning to build a faem went to waste when the thing disappeared when i used silk touch. Seriously bummed out that the risk in getting it and getting lost was for nothing. Very sad indeed.
It should be active while its in your inventory.
And make mob eggs to activate it incredibly rare.
I suggest similar to the way channeling gets you a mob head. Except you have a 5% chance of getting a mob egg as well.