You can currently build contraptions (known as "AFK Fish Farms") to allow yourself to be fishing automatically when you aren't even at the computer. This is, of course, overpowered when you consider that many enchantments and rare items can be obtained through fishing.
To fix this, I propose that there is now a 1 in 100 chance of fishing up a pufferfish (the mob). Since the pufferfish gives the player (brief) poison and does a little bit of damage, players would no longer be able to safely use AFK fish farms.
Additionally, if the player is on hard difficulty, there will be a 50% chance (so a 1 in 200 chance overall) that the pufferfish is instead a creeper. Note that the creeper would not be flung more than 5 blocks away from where it was fished up, and that it wouldn't ignite until it is no longer in the air.
This would fix the overpowered exploit known as AFK fish farms, add a little more danger/action to fishing, and add a nice little easter egg referencing an old Minecraft video.
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
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1 in 100! WHAT! I'm sorry but that is way to common. I think the chance of getting treasure is 1 in 250. Plus fishing is a main food source for a lot of people. Also AFK farms are no more overpowered than an iron farm, or mob grinder. NO SUPPORT.
(P.S. that was not supposed to be mean sorry if it seemed that way.)
This would be very annoying, and give players even little reason to fish. Fishing as of right now is pointless compared to the other two methods to get food- hunting and farming yield more food faster. The addition of fish mobs makes fishing even less useful, as you can just go in the ocean and attack with a sword. The last thing fishing needs is a nerf.
Maybe I could get fast this if it was a different fish mob, like a piranha. But a creeper doesn't make much sense, would grief riverbanks, and kill unarmed players before they realize what happened.
This makes no sense, and, as people have already said, it would be incredibly irritating and discourage people from fishing at all. I mean, who wants to be on alert all the time for that random chance of getting blown to kingdom come? That's not fun, and the #1 concern of any game should be whether it's fun. If it has no reason to exist and would only detract from gameplay, it shouldn't be added. Simple as that. No support.
There are easier and less intrusive ways to break AFK fishing, but MS/Mj has [so far] had the good sense not to try coercive measures aimed at that aspect of game play.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why does everything have to be so stoopid?" Harvey Pekar (from American Splendor)
WARNING: I have an extemely "grindy" playstyle; YMMV — if this doesn't seem fun to you, mine what you can from it & bin the rest.
1 in 100! WHAT! I'm sorry but that is way to common. I think the chance of getting treasure is 1 in 250. Plus fishing is a main food source for a lot of people. Also AFK farms are no more overpowered than an iron farm, or mob grinder. NO SUPPORT.
(P.S. that was not supposed to be mean sorry if it seemed that way.)
This would be very annoying, and give players even little reason to fish. Fishing as of right now is pointless compared to the other two methods to get food- hunting and farming yield more food faster. The addition of fish mobs makes fishing even less useful, as you can just go in the ocean and attack with a sword. The last thing fishing needs is a nerf.
Maybe I could get fast this if it was a different fish mob, like a piranha. But a creeper doesn't make much sense, would grief riverbanks, and kill unarmed players before they realize what happened.
No Support.
People don't really fish for food. The reason people fish is for saddles, nametags, enchanted bows, and enchanted books. Fishing isn't really meant to be someone's main method of getting food; it's a method of getting treasure. There would actually be a much larger chance of a creeper destroying riverbanks or killing players from sneaking up behind the player than being fished up. When a creeper is fished up, it's fairly obvious that it's there, and thus easy to just hit back into the water. On the other hand, when a creeper sneaks up on you, you don't always hear it, and thus get killed and have things destroyed.
This makes no sense, and, as people have already said, it would be incredibly irritating and discourage people from fishing at all. I mean, who wants to be on alert all the time for that random chance of getting blown to kingdom come? That's not fun, and the #1 concern of any game should be whether it's fun. If it has no reason to exist and would only detract from gameplay, it shouldn't be added. Simple as that. No support.
This does have a reason to exist- to break AFK fish farms and to add a little danger/action to fishing. This wouldn't discourage people from fishing that much. Actually, fishing is already dangerous in this sense because creepers can sneak up on you, and you're standing still. Like I've mentioned before, the creeper would be coming right at you, so you would be able to easily punch it back into the water.
There are easier and less intrusive ways to break AFK fishing, but MS/Mj has [so far] had the good sense not to try coercive measures aimed at that aspect of game play.
I'm not quite sure of your position on AFK fish farms, but they definitely need to be broken. What are some easier and less intrusive ways on breaking the farms? Mojang has already tried multiple times to do this, and has since given up because players keep on finding ways around the patches.
I don't think you all understand how easy it is to hit a mob back into the water, where explosions don't destroy blocks. It's also evident that you all haven't considered how powerful creepers are at the moment. Current creepers would be more of a danger than this feature, even if creepers were fished up 1/10th of the time.
EDIT #1:
I'll add two things to the post, as I've just thought of them:
1. On peaceful difficulty, there will instead be a chance of fishing up a squid.
2. Creepers will only be flung up to 5 blocks out of the water toward the player. This is to prevent creepers from being flung from lakes onto balconies.
EDIT #2:
What about if this only happened during night time?
As Wolftopia has said, fishing isn't used to collect food but rather treasure. The AFK fishing farm is much easier to make than an iron farm. Sure iron farms are overpowered, but the time put into it evens it out. An afk fishing farm can be made in a few seconds. It gives end game enchantments (I'm talking infinity) in a matter of a few days. This wouldn't even be very dangerous. I mean, I guess it would if you were afk, but that's the whole point of why he is suggesting it. I'm guessing many of you aren't aware of how afk fishing farms work; The only person who brings up a good argument is Scotsmister.
What if you could instead fish up the pufferfish mob (which does some damage and inflicts poison on the player) when not on hard difficulty? This way you could opt-out of possibly fishing up a creeper.
What are some easier and less intrusive ways on breaking the farms?
You could introduce a system of fatigue that builds up with repetitious activity and introduces diminishing returns (either a reduction in the quality of drops over time or simply just a total reduction in drops). I imagine it would be as simple as polling the player object for the activity being attempted, since the game loop is going to be processing that request anyways. The farms (not just the fish farms, either) would basically become self-nerfing through mere use.
People don't really fish for food. The reason people fish is for saddles, nametags, enchanted bows, and enchanted books. Fishing isn't really meant to be someone's main method of getting food; it's a method of getting treasure. There would actually be a much larger chance of a creeper destroying riverbanks or killing players from sneaking up behind the player than being fished up. When a creeper is fished up, it's fairly obvious that it's there, and thus easy to just hit back into the water. On the other hand, when a creeper sneaks up on you, you don't always hear it, and thus get killed and have things destroyed.
This begins with pure opinion; one may assume this to be true in the case of the poster, but (given the number and diversity of players) is unlikely to be universal. (There are also intermediate cases where food is a goal, but not the goal of fishing.)
I suspect Mojang actually "really meant fishing" as a method of getting food with the treasure and junk tables being additions that have had unintended (and apparently unwanted by MS/Mj) consequences. [Note that MS/Mj's original intent is not material to the discussion.]
RE: death by creeper while fishing.
Given that even very simple precautions will enable one to fish without worrying about hostiles (possibly excepting MobB), I don't see there being any actual risk.
[Simple precautions can be:
a (tiny) lit island (1x1 if need be) out of zombie detection range from the nearest land
a three sided shack, two above water level, with interior lighting
etc.]
This does have a reason to exit- to break AFK fish farms [emphasis added] and to add a little danger/action to fishing. This wouldn't discourage people from fishing that much. Actually, fishing is already dangerous in this sense because creepers can sneak up on you, and you're standing still. Like I've mentioned before, the creeper would be coming [i]right at you[/i], so you would be able to easily punch it back into the water.
The emphasized statement is the reason for not only NO SUPPORT, but active oppposition.
The position "Other people play in a way I don't like, so the game should be coded to stop them" is anathema in my eyes; the support of a wide range of playstyles has been key to the success of MC – contracting this is a double-plus-ungood idea.
[The rest of the above reply is reiterative. ]
I don't think you all understand how easy it is to hit a mob back into the water, [i]where explosions don't destroy blocks. [/i]It's also evident that you all haven't considered how powerful creepers are at the moment. Current creepers would be more of a danger than this feature, even if creepers were fished up 1/10th of the time.
Creepers exploding in water still damage at least player armor and my reading of https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Fishing_Rod#Hooking_mobs_and_other_entities suggests punching a creeper with a fishing rod would be counterproductive.
However, given other considerations, the relative annoyance/danger would seem unimportant.
EDIT #1:
I'll add two things to the post, as I've just thought of them:
1. On peaceful difficulty, there will instead be a chance of fishing up a squid.
2. Creepers will only be flung up to 5 blocks out of the water toward the player. This is to prevent creepers from being flung from lakes onto balconies.
1. A reasonable accomidation of Peaceful mode.
2. From the second sentence it would appear you intend to count the distance from the edge of the water rather than the bobber. In either case this change would simply serve to further restrict the effct of adding the creeper to breaking AFK fishing.
EDIT #2:
What about if this only happened during night time?
Depends on what you mean by "night":
If defined as night outside [tick 13183-2280], without reference to local light level, this removes the danger from "day" fishing and slightly nerfs the AFK breakage . [Given breaking AFK is my reason for opposing the suggestion, no effect on my position.]
If defined by local light level, this effectively negates the chance of catching creepers for anyone taking minimal precautions.*1 I therefore see little point to the addition...but see footnote....
quote=Wolftopia
I'm not quite sure of your position on AFK fish farms, but they definitely need to be broken. What are some easier and less intrusive ways on breaking the farms? Mojang has already tried multiple times to do this, and has since given up because players keep on finding ways around the patches.
My position on my personal uasge is conditional:
If a server prohibts a behavior, I will comply with the rules.
If a server permits (or when in single player), I will use them, or not, at my choice.
My position on general usage is unconditional:
AFK-Xing is just another playstyle and no attempt to break, "nerf", or otherwise interfere should be made… saving only through group agreements to eschew such behavior. [I look, however, most unkindly on those who agree and cheat.]
[i]My[/i] impression is that MS/Mj "saw the light" [at least on this issue] and is no longer attempting to alienate part of their player base.
RE: Killing AFK fishing.
If the goal is to outright kill the activity, requiring some action between casts (call it baiting the hook) would be effective. [Barring scripts.]
Simply rendering the activity cost-prohibitive might be done by:
allowing only a certain 'small' number of things to be fished from a particular water source within a {timespan} before requiring a 'long' time to recharge that water source would make AFK farms much more complex as the player would need to be moved during the session [Similar to some fully automatic netherwart farms.] or – depending one the specifics of the recharge mechanic – the water source could be either replaced or swapped out [The latter depending on an as yet unconfirmed feature of 1.13/14].
inserting a wait state after reeling in during which significant durability was expended if a reacst was made would require the addition of rod replenishers [Similar to the shears replenishers associated with a number of automatic wool farms.]
If the goal is not to prevent AFK-fishing per se, but merely to eliminate the BadWrongFun™ being had by those whose standard of enjoyment differs from yours, simply modifying the loot tables to either completely eliminate or greatly reduce the chance of reeling-in 'offensive' catches would suffice.
[Note this would leave food production intact, but you appear to consider that aspect either acceptable or to occur too infrequently to be a concern.]
*1 Were the applicable local light level taken to be at the bobber (rather than the player location), this could add an interesting mechanic to night fishing as 'properly' lighting a body of water is somewhat challenging early-game.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why does everything have to be so stoopid?" Harvey Pekar (from American Splendor)
WARNING: I have an extemely "grindy" playstyle; YMMV — if this doesn't seem fun to you, mine what you can from it & bin the rest.
People don't really fish for food. The reason people fish is for saddles, nametags, enchanted bows, and enchanted books. Fishing isn't really meant to be someone's main method of getting food; it's a method of getting treasure. There would actually be a much larger chance of a creeper destroying riverbanks or killing players from sneaking up behind the player than being fished up. When a creeper is fished up, it's fairly obvious that it's there, and thus easy to just hit back into the water. On the other hand, when a creeper sneaks up on you, you don't always hear it, and thus get killed and have things destroyed.
This begins with pure opinion; one may assume this to be true in the case of the poster, but (given the number and diversity of players) is unlikely to be universal. (There are also intermediate cases where food is a goal, but not the goal of fishing.)
I suspect Mojang actually "really meant fishing" as a method of getting food with the treasure and junk tables being additions that have had unintended (and apparently unwanted by MS/Mj) consequences. [Note that MS/Mj's original intent is not material to the discussion.] Unless you're in a specific unique circumstance, other methods of obtaining food are far superior to fishing. I was pointing out that fishing is probably mainly used for its treasure rather than its fish because fishg was pointing out that fishing for food is "pointless compared to the other two methods to get food"; yes, I made an assumption, but I was trying to convey that the main reward of fishing isn't fish, but rather the treasure, and that fish are an extra little small bonus. In my experience, people only fish in AFK fish farms and/or when they want some loot.
RE: death by creeper while fishing.
Given that even very simple precautions will enable one to fish without worrying about hostiles (possibly excepting MobB), I don't see there being any actual risk.
[Simple precautions can be:
a (tiny) lit island (1x1 if need be) out of zombie detection range from the nearest land
a three sided shack, two above water level, with interior lighting
etc.]
This does have a reason to exit- to break AFK fish farms [emphasis added] and to add a little danger/action to fishing. This wouldn't discourage people from fishing that much. Actually, fishing is already dangerous in this sense because creepers can sneak up on you, and you're standing still. Like I've mentioned before, the creeper would be coming [i]right at you[/i], so you would be able to easily punch it back into the water.
The emphasized statement is the reason for not only NO SUPPORT, but active oppposition.
The position "Other people play in a way I don't like, so the game should be coded to stop them" is anathema in my eyes; the support of a wide range of playstyles has been key to the success of MC – contracting this is a double-plus-ungood idea.
[The rest of the above reply is reiterative. ]
There is a difference between cheating and a separate playstyle. AFK fish farms break the game balance, and should thus be fixed. If cheating is "just another playstyle," then why even try to balance the game, and why fix duplication glitches?
I don't think you all understand how easy it is to hit a mob back into the water, [i]where explosions don't destroy blocks. [/i]It's also evident that you all haven't considered how powerful creepers are at the moment. Current creepers would be more of a danger than this feature, even if creepers were fished up 1/10th of the time.
Creepers exploding in water still damage at least player armor and my reading of https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Fishing_Rod#Hooking_mobs_and_other_entities suggests punching a creeper with a fishing rod would be counterproductive.
However, given other considerations, the relative annoyance/danger would seem unimportant. Yes, the creepers still do damage when exploding in water on the Java Edition. However, they don't destroy the blocks, which is what a lot of people are concerned about when a creeper explodes near their base or building.
EDIT #1:
I'll add two things to the post, as I've just thought of them:
1. On peaceful difficulty, there will instead be a chance of fishing up a squid.
2. Creepers will only be flung up to 5 blocks out of the water toward the player. This is to prevent creepers from being flung from lakes onto balconies.
1. A reasonable accomidation of Peaceful mode.
2. From the second sentence it would appear you intend to count the distance from the edge of the water rather than the bobber. In either case this change would simply serve to further restrict the effct of adding the creeper to breaking AFK fishing. I meant from the bobber.
EDIT #2:
What about if this only happened during night time?
Depends on what you mean by "night":
If defined as night outside [tick 13183-2280], without reference to local light level, this removes the danger from "day" fishing and slightly nerfs the AFK breakage . [Given breaking AFK is my reason for opposing the suggestion, no effect on my position.]
If defined by local light level, this effectively negates the chance of catching creepers for anyone taking minimal precautions.*1 I therefore see little point to the addition...but see footnote....
quote=Wolftopia
I'm not quite sure of your position on AFK fish farms, but they definitely need to be broken. What are some easier and less intrusive ways on breaking the farms? Mojang has already tried multiple times to do this, and has since given up because players keep on finding ways around the patches.
My position on my personal uasge is conditional:
If a server prohibts a behavior, I will comply with the rules.
If a server permits (or when in single player), I will use them, or not, at my choice.
My position on general usage is unconditional:
AFK-Xing is just another playstyle and no attempt to break, "nerf", or otherwise interfere should be made… saving only through group agreements to eschew such behavior. [I look, however, most unkindly on those who agree and cheat.]
[i]My[/i] impression is that MS/Mj "saw the light" [at least on this issue] and is no longer attempting to alienate part of their player base.
Even if we get passed the fact that AFK fishing is cheating and breaks game balance, there is still the issue of server owners who want to stop their players from building and using AFK fish farms. Yes, there are plugins and commands for this, but:1. You shouldn't have to download plugins or modify the game to stop players on your server from cheating.2. You can't download these plugins or use the commands on all versions of Minecraft. If protection against AFK fishing were to be implemented on another version of Minecraft (which it should), I see no reason why it shouldn't be implemented on the Java Edition.
RE: Killing AFK fishing.
If the goal is to outright kill the activity, requiring some action between casts (call it baiting the hook) would be effective. [Barring scripts.]
Simply rendering the activity cost-prohibitive might be done by:
allowing only a certain 'small' number of things to be fished from a particular water source within a {timespan} before requiring a 'long' time to recharge that water source would make AFK farms much more complex as the player would need to be moved during the session [Similar to some fully automatic netherwart farms.] or – depending one the specifics of the recharge mechanic – the water source could be either replaced or swapped out [The latter depending on an as yet unconfirmed feature of 1.13/14]. This would most likely have to be done per chunk to not be too resource-demanding.
inserting a wait state after reeling in during which significant durability was expended if a reacst was made would require the addition of rod replenishers [Similar to the shears replenishers associated with a number of automatic wool farms.]
If the goal is not to prevent AFK-fishing per se, but merely to eliminate the BadWrongFun™ being had by those whose standard of enjoyment differs from yours, simply modifying the loot tables to either completely eliminate or greatly reduce the chance of reeling-in 'offensive' catches would suffice.
[Note this would leave food production intact, but you appear to consider that aspect either acceptable or to occur too infrequently to be a concern.]
*1 Were the applicable local light level taken to be at the bobber (rather than the player location), this could add an interesting mechanic to night fishing as 'properly' lighting a body of water is somewhat challenging early-game.
2. Creepers will only be flung up to 5 blocks out of the water toward the player. This is to prevent creepers from being flung from lakes onto balconies.
Then this doesn't solve the issue of AFK fishing. People would just build dirt platforms and "fish" there.
Creepers don't fit with this imo. Why are they underwater? They are one of the most dangerous mobs out there. Adding in a whole new mob just for this is strange, so perhaps instead it's guardians who attack. Or maybe silverfish, though they aren't really fish.
Then this doesn't solve the issue of AFK fishing. People would just build dirt platforms and "fish" there.
AFK fish farms work because you're also right-clicking an iron door. If you to go 5 or more blocks away from the place you're fishing, you wouldn't be able to reach the iron-door, and you would thus keep on casting the rod and not be able to fish.
Creepers don't fit with this imo. Why are they underwater? They are one of the most dangerous mobs out there. Adding in a whole new mob just for this is strange, so perhaps instead it's guardians who attack. Or maybe silverfish, though they aren't really fish.
Also, I think I'm going to rename this thread to "Break AFK Fish Farms" since multiple methods of breaking them are being discussed.
EDIT: I've tweaked the original post, so please reread it before commenting to ensure you're not suggesting something that I've already added to the post.
Even if we get passed the fact that AFK fishing is not cheating and changes but does not break game balance,
to which stipulation I expect you have as little agreement as I to your original…
Reduced to its root our disagreement on this issue seems to be based on your definition of AFK-fishing as universally cheating vs my position that it is so only if there is a locally agreed upon rule prohibiting it. [Note that I consider joining a server to be an implicit agreement to abide by the rules.]
More broadly, we also differ in our reactions to the fact of "cheaters" in that I avoid playing with those who insist on playstyles I sufficiently dislike (ie. griefing, rule breaking) whereas you wish to change the code to prevent behavior with which you disagree.
Respondiong to these points from your latest reply:
1. You shouldn't have to download plugins or modify the game to stop players on your server from cheating.
2. You can't download these plugins or use the commands on all versions of Minecraft.
If protection against AFK fishing were to be implemented on another version of Minecraft (which it should), I see no reason why it shouldn't be implemented on the Java Edition.
Your "solution" would not "solve" the underlying problem that some players like/accept AFK-fishing while other do not; all that would be accomplished is to shift WHO had to "to download plugins or modify the game" to acheive the desired play experience.
Similarly each of the points listed can be reversed:
1. You shouldn't have to download plugins or modify the game to add back a longstanding aspect of the game you like but that was removed because of the opinion of others.
2. You can't download these plugins or use the commands on all versions of Minecraft. [Doesn't even require rephrasing.]
If AFK fishing is permitted on the Java Edition (which it should be), I see no reason why it should be prohibited on another version of Minecraft.
Those who run servers are free to offer a completely unmodded vanilla experience or to use whatever mods they prefer or think will attract the greatest number of users.
This fact will not change regardless of what changes are made to "vanilla"; all that will change is what requires mods to provide.
TL;DR
The only effect of the proposed change would be to please some players and displease others, as compared with not making the change... which will please some players and displease others.
Absent objective evidence that the group that would be pleased by any proposed change greatly outnumbers those who would be displeased, I can see no reason such a change should ever be implemented to the basic game.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why does everything have to be so stoopid?" Harvey Pekar (from American Splendor)
WARNING: I have an extemely "grindy" playstyle; YMMV — if this doesn't seem fun to you, mine what you can from it & bin the rest.
AFK fish farms work because you're also right-clicking an iron door. If you to go 5 or more blocks away from the place you're fishing, you wouldn't be able to reach the iron-door, and you would thus keep on casting the rod and not be able to fish.
Also, I think I'm going to rename this thread to "Break AFK Fish Farms" since multiple methods of breaking them are being discussed.
EDIT: I've tweaked the original post, so please reread it before commenting to ensure you're not suggesting something that I've already added to the post.
You could have the iron door next to you but have said iron door above and use gravity to get the rod down 5 blocks. But now that it is a pufferfish that feature isn't needed. Pufferfish are much better, I was talking about piranhas.
Even if we get passed the fact that AFK fishing is not cheating and changes but does not break game balance,
to which stipulation I expect you have as little agreement as I to your original…
Reduced to its root our disagreement on this issue seems to be based on your definition of AFK-fishing as universally cheating vs my position that it is so only if there is a locally agreed upon rule prohibiting it. [Note that I consider joining a server to be an implicit agreement to abide by the rules.]
Don't like AFK fishing farms? Simple, don't build one. If you run a server, you can then impose any rules you like on that server.
Don't tell other people how to play the game.
An AFK fish farm isn't just a playstyle. it's a broken feature. The aquatic update is coming and breaking AFK fishing farms is the best way to get rid of those enchants. AFK fish farms allows someone lazy to become overpowered very quickly. If Mojang had left the hopper duplication glitch, Minecraft would be much different. Simply not allowing it on servers isn't very efficient. I think a better choice would be to implement Wolftopia's feature and those who still want AFK fishing farms can get some mods or plugins to make it so they can exist. This way servers who like fair gameplay can stay vanilla. The servers who prefer a more lazy, broken, feature can have that.
As much as I like to abuse this feature, it gives you a large quantity of food which means that crops and other animals are less useful. Especially pigs, who's only practical use is being eaten. The only thing that competes with this are auto-chicken farms, which probably also deserve a nerf if we ever decide to revamp food.
An AFK farm is easy to build early-game. Only a few fishes, and you can get a Mending rod, which means you can fish for long amounts of time and you can get some pretty OP enchants for your tools like Infinity or Mending. In addition, leather becomes incredibly easy to get using an AFK fish farm. Before, if you wanted to build an enchantment library, you'd have to start farming cows or find a stronghold. Now you can build enchantment rooms almost long-before you find the diamonds to build the enchantment table.
Does this solve the problem correctly? In my opinion, no.
First off, pulling up a creeper or pufferfish means that you endanger yourself while trying to fish normally. I don't think fishing needs danger or action, because fishing is a pretty calm sport as it is... If anything, this idea is more of a hacky fix rather than actually solving the problem.
I think a better solution would be to remove rare enchantments from fishing, because even with an AFK fish farm you'll only get Mending or Infinity books after hours of AFK fishing, even with max enchants. The chances of getting a Mending book or Infinity book while normally fishing are astronomical, anyway. In addition, players can no longer right-click on anything else while fishing, such as noteblocks which are used in AFK fish farms currently. Right-clicking will pull in the fishing rod no matter what.
Alternatively, you could prevent fishing rods from receiving a Mending enchantment, but that means you'll lose any rare enchantments on a fishing rod. (I suppose you could make these enchantments spawn really commonly in dungeons and mineshaft chests to fix this problem...)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My avatar is a texture from a small block game I made in Python. It's not very good and it probably won't work if you install it.
I'm very alone in my Minecraft worlds as I don't have a very good internet connection to run a server. If you're like me, you might be interested in my Posse mod suggestion.
You can currently build contraptions (known as "AFK Fish Farms") to allow yourself to be fishing automatically when you aren't even at the computer. This is, of course, overpowered when you consider that many enchantments and rare items can be obtained through fishing.
To fix this, I propose that there is now a 1 in 100 chance of fishing up a pufferfish (the mob). Since the pufferfish gives the player (brief) poison and does a little bit of damage, players would no longer be able to safely use AFK fish farms.
Additionally, if the player is on hard difficulty, there will be a 50% chance (so a 1 in 200 chance overall) that the pufferfish is instead a creeper. Note that the creeper would not be flung more than 5 blocks away from where it was fished up, and that it wouldn't ignite until it is no longer in the air.
This would fix the overpowered exploit known as AFK fish farms, add a little more danger/action to fishing, and add a nice little easter egg referencing an old Minecraft video.
Check out my suggestions! Here is one of them:
1 in 100! WHAT! I'm sorry but that is way to common. I think the chance of getting treasure is 1 in 250. Plus fishing is a main food source for a lot of people. Also AFK farms are no more overpowered than an iron farm, or mob grinder. NO SUPPORT.
(P.S. that was not supposed to be mean sorry if it seemed that way.)
This would be very annoying, and give players even little reason to fish. Fishing as of right now is pointless compared to the other two methods to get food- hunting and farming yield more food faster. The addition of fish mobs makes fishing even less useful, as you can just go in the ocean and attack with a sword. The last thing fishing needs is a nerf.
Maybe I could get fast this if it was a different fish mob, like a piranha. But a creeper doesn't make much sense, would grief riverbanks, and kill unarmed players before they realize what happened.
No Support.
This makes no sense, and, as people have already said, it would be incredibly irritating and discourage people from fishing at all. I mean, who wants to be on alert all the time for that random chance of getting blown to kingdom come? That's not fun, and the #1 concern of any game should be whether it's fun. If it has no reason to exist and would only detract from gameplay, it shouldn't be added. Simple as that. No support.
No Support
There are easier and less intrusive ways to break AFK fishing, but MS/Mj has [so far] had the good sense not to try coercive measures aimed at that aspect of game play.
I would be open to increasing the rarity of this.
People don't really fish for food. The reason people fish is for saddles, nametags, enchanted bows, and enchanted books. Fishing isn't really meant to be someone's main method of getting food; it's a method of getting treasure. There would actually be a much larger chance of a creeper destroying riverbanks or killing players from sneaking up behind the player than being fished up. When a creeper is fished up, it's fairly obvious that it's there, and thus easy to just hit back into the water. On the other hand, when a creeper sneaks up on you, you don't always hear it, and thus get killed and have things destroyed.
This does have a reason to exist- to break AFK fish farms and to add a little danger/action to fishing. This wouldn't discourage people from fishing that much. Actually, fishing is already dangerous in this sense because creepers can sneak up on you, and you're standing still. Like I've mentioned before, the creeper would be coming right at you, so you would be able to easily punch it back into the water.
I'm not quite sure of your position on AFK fish farms, but they definitely need to be broken. What are some easier and less intrusive ways on breaking the farms? Mojang has already tried multiple times to do this, and has since given up because players keep on finding ways around the patches.
I don't think you all understand how easy it is to hit a mob back into the water, where explosions don't destroy blocks. It's also evident that you all haven't considered how powerful creepers are at the moment. Current creepers would be more of a danger than this feature, even if creepers were fished up 1/10th of the time.
EDIT #1:
I'll add two things to the post, as I've just thought of them:
1. On peaceful difficulty, there will instead be a chance of fishing up a squid.
2. Creepers will only be flung up to 5 blocks out of the water toward the player. This is to prevent creepers from being flung from lakes onto balconies.
EDIT #2:
What about if this only happened during night time?
Check out my suggestions! Here is one of them:
As Wolftopia has said, fishing isn't used to collect food but rather treasure. The AFK fishing farm is much easier to make than an iron farm. Sure iron farms are overpowered, but the time put into it evens it out. An afk fishing farm can be made in a few seconds. It gives end game enchantments (I'm talking infinity) in a matter of a few days. This wouldn't even be very dangerous. I mean, I guess it would if you were afk, but that's the whole point of why he is suggesting it. I'm guessing many of you aren't aware of how afk fishing farms work; The only person who brings up a good argument is Scotsmister.
Full Support
What if you could instead fish up the pufferfish mob (which does some damage and inflicts poison on the player) when not on hard difficulty? This way you could opt-out of possibly fishing up a creeper.
Check out my suggestions! Here is one of them:
You could introduce a system of fatigue that builds up with repetitious activity and introduces diminishing returns (either a reduction in the quality of drops over time or simply just a total reduction in drops). I imagine it would be as simple as polling the player object for the activity being attempted, since the game loop is going to be processing that request anyways. The farms (not just the fish farms, either) would basically become self-nerfing through mere use.
quote=Wolftopia [Interpolated replies]
People don't really fish for food. The reason people fish is for saddles, nametags, enchanted bows, and enchanted books. Fishing isn't really meant to be someone's main method of getting food; it's a method of getting treasure. There would actually be a much larger chance of a creeper destroying riverbanks or killing players from sneaking up behind the player than being fished up. When a creeper is fished up, it's fairly obvious that it's there, and thus easy to just hit back into the water. On the other hand, when a creeper sneaks up on you, you don't always hear it, and thus get killed and have things destroyed.
This begins with pure opinion; one may assume this to be true in the case of the poster, but (given the number and diversity of players) is unlikely to be universal. (There are also intermediate cases where food is a goal, but not the goal of fishing.)
I suspect Mojang actually "really meant fishing" as a method of getting food with the treasure and junk tables being additions that have had unintended (and apparently unwanted by MS/Mj) consequences. [Note that MS/Mj's original intent is not material to the discussion.]
RE: death by creeper while fishing.
Given that even very simple precautions will enable one to fish without worrying about hostiles (possibly excepting MobB), I don't see there being any actual risk.
[Simple precautions can be:
a (tiny) lit island (1x1 if need be) out of zombie detection range from the nearest land
a three sided shack, two above water level, with interior lighting
etc.]
This does have a reason to exit- to break AFK fish farms [emphasis added] and to add a little danger/action to fishing. This wouldn't discourage people from fishing that much. Actually, fishing is already dangerous in this sense because creepers can sneak up on you, and you're standing still. Like I've mentioned before, the creeper would be coming [i]right at you[/i], so you would be able to easily punch it back into the water.
The emphasized statement is the reason for not only NO SUPPORT, but active oppposition.
The position "Other people play in a way I don't like, so the game should be coded to stop them" is anathema in my eyes; the support of a wide range of playstyles has been key to the success of MC – contracting this is a double-plus-ungood idea.
[The rest of the above reply is reiterative. ]
I don't think you all understand how easy it is to hit a mob back into the water, [i]where explosions don't destroy blocks. [/i]It's also evident that you all haven't considered how powerful creepers are at the moment. Current creepers would be more of a danger than this feature, even if creepers were fished up 1/10th of the time.
Creepers exploding in water still damage at least player armor and my reading of https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Fishing_Rod#Hooking_mobs_and_other_entities suggests punching a creeper with a fishing rod would be counterproductive.
However, given other considerations, the relative annoyance/danger would seem unimportant.
EDIT #1:
I'll add two things to the post, as I've just thought of them:
1. On peaceful difficulty, there will instead be a chance of fishing up a squid.
2. Creepers will only be flung up to 5 blocks out of the water toward the player. This is to prevent creepers from being flung from lakes onto balconies.
1. A reasonable accomidation of Peaceful mode.
2. From the second sentence it would appear you intend to count the distance from the edge of the water rather than the bobber. In either case this change would simply serve to further restrict the effct of adding the creeper to breaking AFK fishing.
EDIT #2:
What about if this only happened during night time?
Depends on what you mean by "night":
If defined as night outside [tick 13183-2280], without reference to local light level, this removes the danger from "day" fishing and slightly nerfs the AFK breakage . [Given breaking AFK is my reason for opposing the suggestion, no effect on my position.]
If defined by local light level, this effectively negates the chance of catching creepers for anyone taking minimal precautions.*1 I therefore see little point to the addition...but see footnote....
quote=Wolftopia
I'm not quite sure of your position on AFK fish farms, but they definitely need to be broken. What are some easier and less intrusive ways on breaking the farms? Mojang has already tried multiple times to do this, and has since given up because players keep on finding ways around the patches.
My position on my personal uasge is conditional:
If a server prohibts a behavior, I will comply with the rules.
If a server permits (or when in single player), I will use them, or not, at my choice.
My position on general usage is unconditional:
AFK-Xing is just another playstyle and no attempt to break, "nerf", or otherwise interfere should be made… saving only through group agreements to eschew such behavior. [I look, however, most unkindly on those who agree and cheat.]
[i]My[/i] impression is that MS/Mj "saw the light" [at least on this issue] and is no longer attempting to alienate part of their player base.
RE: Killing AFK fishing.
If the goal is to outright kill the activity, requiring some action between casts (call it baiting the hook) would be effective. [Barring scripts.]
Simply rendering the activity cost-prohibitive might be done by:
If the goal is not to prevent AFK-fishing per se, but merely to eliminate the BadWrongFun™ being had by those whose standard of enjoyment differs from yours, simply modifying the loot tables to either completely eliminate or greatly reduce the chance of reeling-in 'offensive' catches would suffice.
[Note this would leave food production intact, but you appear to consider that aspect either acceptable or to occur too infrequently to be a concern.]
*1 Were the applicable local light level taken to be at the bobber (rather than the player location), this could add an interesting mechanic to night fishing as 'properly' lighting a body of water is somewhat challenging early-game.
I feel like fishing up a dangerous fish like a piranha would be enough to break afk fishing.
My first mod =D
Responses in bold.
Check out my suggestions! Here is one of them:
Then this doesn't solve the issue of AFK fishing. People would just build dirt platforms and "fish" there.
Creepers don't fit with this imo. Why are they underwater? They are one of the most dangerous mobs out there. Adding in a whole new mob just for this is strange, so perhaps instead it's guardians who attack. Or maybe silverfish, though they aren't really fish.
AFK fish farms work because you're also right-clicking an iron door. If you to go 5 or more blocks away from the place you're fishing, you wouldn't be able to reach the iron-door, and you would thus keep on casting the rod and not be able to fish.
A whole new mob? Are you talking about the pufferfish mob? That's an actual mob being implemented into the game.
Also, I think I'm going to rename this thread to "Break AFK Fish Farms" since multiple methods of breaking them are being discussed.
EDIT: I've tweaked the original post, so please reread it before commenting to ensure you're not suggesting something that I've already added to the post.
Check out my suggestions! Here is one of them:
Even if we get passed the fact that AFK fishing is not cheating and changes but does not break game balance,
to which stipulation I expect you have as little agreement as I to your original…
Reduced to its root our disagreement on this issue seems to be based on your definition of AFK-fishing as universally cheating vs my position that it is so only if there is a locally agreed upon rule prohibiting it. [Note that I consider joining a server to be an implicit agreement to abide by the rules.]
More broadly, we also differ in our reactions to the fact of "cheaters" in that I avoid playing with those who insist on playstyles I sufficiently dislike (ie. griefing, rule breaking) whereas you wish to change the code to prevent behavior with which you disagree.
Respondiong to these points from your latest reply:
1. You shouldn't have to download plugins or modify the game to stop players on your server from cheating.
2. You can't download these plugins or use the commands on all versions of Minecraft.
If protection against AFK fishing were to be implemented on another version of Minecraft (which it should), I see no reason why it shouldn't be implemented on the Java Edition.
Your "solution" would not "solve" the underlying problem that some players like/accept AFK-fishing while other do not; all that would be accomplished is to shift WHO had to "to download plugins or modify the game" to acheive the desired play experience.
Similarly each of the points listed can be reversed:
1. You shouldn't have to download plugins or modify the game to add back a longstanding aspect of the game you like but that was removed because of the opinion of others.
2. You can't download these plugins or use the commands on all versions of Minecraft. [Doesn't even require rephrasing.]
If AFK fishing is permitted on the Java Edition (which it should be), I see no reason why it should be prohibited on another version of Minecraft.
Those who run servers are free to offer a completely unmodded vanilla experience or to use whatever mods they prefer or think will attract the greatest number of users.
This fact will not change regardless of what changes are made to "vanilla"; all that will change is what requires mods to provide.
TL;DR
The only effect of the proposed change would be to please some players and displease others, as compared with not making the change... which will please some players and displease others.
Absent objective evidence that the group that would be pleased by any proposed change greatly outnumbers those who would be displeased, I can see no reason such a change should ever be implemented to the basic game.
You could have the iron door next to you but have said iron door above and use gravity to get the rod down 5 blocks. But now that it is a pufferfish that feature isn't needed. Pufferfish are much better, I was talking about piranhas.
Support
N O D O N T
dont look at this
Don't like AFK fishing farms? Simple, don't build one. If you run a server, you can then impose any rules you like on that server.
Don't tell other people how to play the game.
D_B
To tell them how to live is to prevent them living.
An AFK fish farm isn't just a playstyle. it's a broken feature. The aquatic update is coming and breaking AFK fishing farms is the best way to get rid of those enchants. AFK fish farms allows someone lazy to become overpowered very quickly. If Mojang had left the hopper duplication glitch, Minecraft would be much different. Simply not allowing it on servers isn't very efficient. I think a better choice would be to implement Wolftopia's feature and those who still want AFK fishing farms can get some mods or plugins to make it so they can exist. This way servers who like fair gameplay can stay vanilla. The servers who prefer a more lazy, broken, feature can have that.
Should AFK farms be fixed? Yes.
As much as I like to abuse this feature, it gives you a large quantity of food which means that crops and other animals are less useful. Especially pigs, who's only practical use is being eaten. The only thing that competes with this are auto-chicken farms, which probably also deserve a nerf if we ever decide to revamp food.
An AFK farm is easy to build early-game. Only a few fishes, and you can get a Mending rod, which means you can fish for long amounts of time and you can get some pretty OP enchants for your tools like Infinity or Mending. In addition, leather becomes incredibly easy to get using an AFK fish farm. Before, if you wanted to build an enchantment library, you'd have to start farming cows or find a stronghold. Now you can build enchantment rooms almost long-before you find the diamonds to build the enchantment table.
Does this solve the problem correctly? In my opinion, no.
First off, pulling up a creeper or pufferfish means that you endanger yourself while trying to fish normally. I don't think fishing needs danger or action, because fishing is a pretty calm sport as it is... If anything, this idea is more of a hacky fix rather than actually solving the problem.
I think a better solution would be to remove rare enchantments from fishing, because even with an AFK fish farm you'll only get Mending or Infinity books after hours of AFK fishing, even with max enchants. The chances of getting a Mending book or Infinity book while normally fishing are astronomical, anyway. In addition, players can no longer right-click on anything else while fishing, such as noteblocks which are used in AFK fish farms currently. Right-clicking will pull in the fishing rod no matter what.
Alternatively, you could prevent fishing rods from receiving a Mending enchantment, but that means you'll lose any rare enchantments on a fishing rod. (I suppose you could make these enchantments spawn really commonly in dungeons and mineshaft chests to fix this problem...)
My avatar is a texture from a small block game I made in Python. It's not very good and it probably won't work if you install it.
I'm very alone in my Minecraft worlds as I don't have a very good internet connection to run a server. If you're like me, you might be interested in my Posse mod suggestion.