Some of these are a little too advanced. I want to play vanilla PvP, but I don't want to have to learn a million tactics first. I'm fine with slight changes (like dual wielding a sword and bow), but I don't want anything too advanced. I understand where you'r coming from. At first I thought that these tactics should be unlock able after defeating the End Dragon, but I think they should be something the player should learn themselves as they play the game, much like they would with crafting recipes and unintended game tactics.
I'll address a few of your suggestions.
Quivers and armor weight - I classify these as unnecessary. I think this is not definitely understandable. Can you let me know your specific thoughts on the subject so I can understand more?
Quivers are simply pointless.
If someone has diamond armor, they earned it. I don't want to have to run around in the End with leather armor because if I used diamond armor I'd walk like a turtle and be unable to quickly recover from knockback. And it'll be hard to do basic parkour if you're being dragged along by your superior resistance. Do you think it would be better to have the default player movement speed changed to be a bit faster? Or maybe lower the speed hinderance a bit more? Or both?
Crouching/Crawling - I feel like these are taken from FPS games. These would change stuff like bow duels dramatically. Could I just spam crawling/standing/crouching over and over to change my hotbox? Thanks for bringing this up. You'd have to learn to move fast enough to switch between stances and still be able to do anything else. A common strike point will always be the block you stand on though.
Diving - I'm personally fine with this. Then again, I don't fight Guardians or really fight underwater at all, so I'm not the most experienced in this area. The idea is mostly for tactical retreating through water methods, but water fights would be another a good use fir the tactic.
Swinging - Not too sure what you're describing. Don't ladders already work like this? Although, unlike leaders, vines can be where their are no blocks, you can't climb on those vines that aren't on full blocks. the idea is to be able to interact with them to jump from one to the other despite none of them being placed on full blocks and also still being able to go through them at will.
Sliding - Hold on, Crawling hasn't gotten through yet. Sliding allows you to quickly slide a couple of blocks before getting into a temporary crawling stance.
Climbing - I think you meant to say "ladders" not "letters". Thanks for the heads up.
Golden Tools - "waste" not "waist". (0_0) I swear I'm getting my new glasses soon.
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Some of these are a little too advanced. I want to play vanilla PvP, but I don't want to have to learn a million tactics first. I'm fine with slight changes (like dual wielding a sword and bow), but I don't want anything too advanced. I understand where you'r coming from. At first I thought that these tactics should be unlock able after defeating the End Dragon, but I think they should be something the player should learn themselves as they play the game, much like they would with crafting [/b]recipes and unintended game tactics.[/b]
I actually still don't know most of my crafting recipes, apart from the basic ones. :/
I'll address a few of your suggestions.
Quivers and armor weight - I classify these as unnecessary. I think this is not definitely understandable. Can you let me know your specific thoughts on the subject so I can understand more?[/b]
For quivers, I think arrows used like we do right now are simple and easy, and I like that. Craft an arrow, shoot it.Of course, just now I realized that I might be misunderstanding you, so if you're just adding an alternative way to store arrows... oops, sorry!
Quivers are simply pointless.
If someone has diamond armor, they earned it. I don't want to have to run around in the End with leather armor because if I used diamond armor I'd walk like a turtle and be unable to quickly recover from knockback. And it'll be hard to do basic parkour if you're being dragged along by your superior resistance. Do you think it would be better to have the default player movement speed changed to be a bit faster? Or maybe lower the speed hinderance a bit more? Or [/b]both?[/b]
Changing default movement speed would also change up parkour. I'm not an avid traceur, but I think it would still be a little messy.I still don't think better armor should necessitate slower speed. If we're going to say that a diamond armored player has an unfair advantage over a leather armored player, why don't we also modify diamond swords to have more disadvantages?
Crouching/Crawling - I feel like these are taken from FPS games. These would change stuff like bow duels dramatically. Could I just spam crawling/standing/crouching over and over to change my hotbox? Thanks for bringing this up. You'd have to learn to move fast enough to switch between stances and still be able to do anything else. A [/b]common strike point will always be the block you stand on though.[/b]
Shouldn't be too difficult. Arrow firing speed is only so limited. Even just staying to crawling could make your hitbox so much harder to hit from far away. This would become the new meta for bridging.
Diving - I'm personally fine with this. Then again, I don't fight Guardians or really fight underwater at all, so I'm not the most experienced in this area. The idea is mostly for tactical retreating through water methods, but water fights would be another a good use fir the tactic.[/b]
It makes you either stay still or sink down, I don't see why this helps you retreat.
Swinging - Not too sure what you're describing. Don't ladders already work like this? Although, unlike[/b]leaders, vines can be where their are no blocks, you can't climb on those vines that aren't on full blocks. the idea is to be able to interact with them to jump from one to the other despite none of them being placed on full blocks and also still being able to go through them at will.[/b]
Right, there are vines like that. Maybe just remove hanging vines altogether, because a hanging vine shouldn't support anyone's weight.[/b]
Sliding - Hold on, Crawling hasn't gotten through yet. Sliding allows you to quickly slide a couple of blocks before getting into a temporary crawling stance.[/b]
Like soccer?[/b]
Climbing - I think you meant to say "ladders" not "letters". Thanks for the heads up. [/b]
Golden Tools - "waste" not "waist". (0_0) I swear I'm getting my new glasses soon.[/b]
([o]-[o])
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I actually still don't know most of my crafting recipes, apart from the basic ones. :/ I know how you feel. I still can't craft a shield without messing up every time. I thought I just forget everything.
It's nice to know I'm not the only one having trouble with remembering things though... Not that I want others to forget things as often as me or anything.
For quivers, I think arrows used like we do right now are simple and easy, and I like that. Craft an arrow, shoot it.Of course, just now I realized that I might be misunderstanding you, so if you're just adding an alternative way to store arrows... oops, sorry! Don't be. I think I just need to make it more clear for the thread. Every misunderstanding that's brought up is always something I'll be great-full for to improve the thread accordingly.
Changing default movement speed would also change up parkour. I'm not an avid traceur, but I think it would still be a little messy.I still don't think better armor should necessitate slower speed. If we're going to say that a diamond armored player has an unfair advantage over a leather armored player, why don't we also modify diamond swords to have more disadvantages? That's a good point. I want the best armors to still be rewarding but still make you think more about what you need and for leather armor to actually be of use for the purpose of the game. To make people think more tactical.
What about this: the better the armor, the more resistant it is to negative effects (Leather not included), and have the armor moment hinderance back down by 1-2%.
Shouldn't be too difficult. Arrow firing speed is only so limited. Even just staying to crawling could make your hitbox so much harder to hit from far away. This would become the new meta for bridging. ... Challenge for beginners? I'm not sure if I mentioned this in the thread, but , the hit-box would go along with the body's angle as appose to shrinking or being the same for every stance (one parented to the head, the other parented to the common placement of the legs). This is for more tactical proposes that people would have to learn the strengths and weaknesses of as they play the game. The main purpose is to help players take better cover from the opposition though; however, although they might have better cover, it would also be at the cost of their speed (Perfect way to either take cover or get surprise attacked from).
It makes you either stay still or sink down, I don't see why this helps you retreat. When you'r trying to get away from mobs, the faster you sink, the faster you can run away from the other mobs that'll swim instead of sink. It'd also make is easier to dodge projectiles and perform sneak attacks on the opposition.
Right, there are vines like that. Maybe just remove hanging vines altogether, because a hanging vine shouldn't support anyone's weight. In real life they usually can. I personally got to do so in Puerto Rico every time I went over their. Their's actually about a 20-15% chance a good looking vine would not hold on tight enough to hold at least 150 pounds from what I could tell. Also depending on the strength of the specific vine and the tree type (branch resistance). But normally you can (just not as far a Tarzan).
Like soccer? Yeah. Or like baseball, fencing (self liberties considered), tag, or paintball, but more like paintball.
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I actually still don't know most of my crafting recipes, apart from the basic ones. :/ I know how you feel. I still can't craft a shield without messing up every time. I thought I just forget everything.
It's nice to know I'm not the only one having trouble with remembering things though... Not that I want others to forget things as often as me or anything.
Yeah, though my reason is that I don't play vanilla survival. Only servers.
For quivers, I think arrows used like we do right now are simple and easy, and I like that. Craft an arrow, shoot it.Of course, just now I realized that I might be misunderstanding you, so if you're just adding an alternative way to store arrows... oops, sorry! Don't be. I think I just need to make it more clear for the thread. Every misunderstanding that's brought up is always something I'll be great-full for to improve the thread accordingly.
Alrighty. So it is an alternative way to store arrows? If so, why is it needed?
Changing default movement speed would also change up parkour. I'm not an avid traceur, but I think it would still be a little messy.I still don't think better armor should necessitate slower speed. If we're going to say that a diamond armored player has an unfair advantage over a leather armored player, why don't we also modify diamond swords to have more disadvantages? That's a good point. I want the best armors to still be rewarding but still make you think more about what you need and for leather armor to actually be of use for the purpose of the game. To make people think more tactical.
What about this: the better the armor, the more resistant it is to negative effects (Leather not included), and have the armor moment hinderance back down by 1-2%.
Mostly I'm worried about diamond armor messing up basic parkour/jumping.However, 1-2% would seem otherwise reasonable enough, even without the extra resistance to negative effects (as better armor already has extra basic damage resistance).But one last question. 1.9 damage scaling was intended to solve the problem of spamming to deal the most damage, IIRC. What problem does armor speed penalty solve?
Shouldn't be too difficult. Arrow firing speed is only so limited. Even just staying to crawling could make your hitbox so much harder to hit from far away. This would become the new meta for bridging. ... Challenge for beginners? I'm not sure if I mentioned this in the thread, but , the hit-box would go along with the body's angle as appose to shrinking or being the same for every stance (one parented to the head, the other parented to the common placement of the legs). This is for more tactical proposes that people would have to learn the strengths and weaknesses of as they play the game. The main purpose is to help players take better cover from the opposition though; however, although they might have better cover, it would also be at the cost of their speed (Perfect way to either take cover or get surprise attacked from).
I think I know what you mean. A crawling player would have a crawling hitbox. Still, that would make them much harder to see and much harder to hit, especially from far away while they're facing you. Is it really necessary? It seems like an easy way to dodge arrows (go into crawl mode when an arrow comes, go back to normal once it passes), which takes out the skill of strafing and/or quickly dodging behind a two-block pillar.
It makes you either stay still or sink down, I don't see why this helps you retreat. When you'r trying to get away from mobs, the faster you sink, the faster you can run away from the other mobs that'll swim instead of sink. It'd also make is easier to dodge projectiles and perform sneak attacks on the opposition.
You would be able to run away swimming skeletons easier, at the risk of drowning. Seems like a niche usage.The upcoming Update Aquatic apparently is adding swimming to MC, though, so I think that'll be good enough.
Right, there are vines like that. Maybe just remove hanging vines altogether, because a hanging vine shouldn't support anyone's weight. In real life they usually can. I personally got to do so in Puerto Rico every time I went over their. Their's actually about a 20-15% chance a good looking vine would not hold on tight enough to hold at least 150 pounds from what I could tell. Also depending on the strength of the specific vine and the tree type (branch resistance). But normally you can (just not as far a Tarzan).
TIL I know nothing about vines.You're likely right. However, it would still look weird to those of us ignorant folk who don't know about vine strength, which unfortunately might be a majority of the Minecraft playerbase.
Like soccer? Yeah. Or like baseball, fencing (self liberties considered), tag, or paintball, but more like paintball
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Alrighty. So it is an alternative way to store arrows? If so, why is it needed? It's just a faster and cheeper way to hold several stacks of arrows and switch between them slightly faster without having to go through the trouble of looking for diamonds, lava, and lapis, and then waist time randomly using XP for enchantments to find the Infinity enchantment. But I guess it does seem a bit redundant. To answer you'r question, I wouldn't say it's needed, just that i'd be nice to have to get ready faster. I think I should make it be able to shoot arrows longer, faster, or give the player a line sight showing the trajectory of where the arrow would fall, but I'm not sure what i'd be like after being enchanted with infinity. What do you think?
Mostly I'm worried about diamond armor messing up basic parkour/jumping.However, 1-2% would seem otherwise reasonable enough, even without the extra resistance to negative effects (as better armor already has extra basic damage resistance).But one last question. 1.9 damage scaling was intended to solve the problem of spamming to deal the most damage, IIRC. What problem does armor speed penalty solve? I'd just drop the likeliness of players chasing to kill newer players and make players think more tactical about what they wear like they would've have to do in real life back then (sense armor would usually not be used due to it's weight and hindered movement) and would make it easier to runaway from other players and mobs with extra protection. I've made each armor type also having their own specified resistance perk. It's not actually to fix a specified problem though. It's just to make the game a little more interesting and tactical to make it more fun and the combat aspect more worth exploring.
I think I know what you mean. A crawling player would have a crawling hitbox. Still, that would make them much harder to see and much harder to hit, especially from far away while they're facing you. Is it really necessary? It seems like an easy way to dodge arrows (go into crawl mode when an arrow comes, go back to normal once it passes), which takes out the skill of strafing and/or quickly dodging behind a two-block pillar. Although getting through smaller spaces and taking cover is the intentional use, it still takes time for you to get into the crawl position, and longer to get up. New and less experienced players would also be capable of using it to give them a better chance of hiding and defending themselves.
You would be able to run away swimming skeletons easier, at the risk of drowning. Seems like a niche usage.The upcoming Update Aquatic apparently is adding swimming to MC, though, so I think that'll be good enough.I've made it so you'r armor type would also be a determining factor for how fast you sink or swim, up.
TIL I know nothing about vines.You're likely right. However, it would still look weird to those of us ignorant folk who don't know about vine strength, which unfortunately might be a majority of the Minecraft player base. Sounds like it would be a great way to learn more about vines. I'll see what I can do to make it better.
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Alrighty. So it is an alternative way to store arrows? If so, why is it needed? It's just a faster and cheeper way to hold several stacks of arrows and switch between them slightly faster without having to go through the trouble of looking for diamonds, lava, and lapis, and then waist time randomly using XP for enchantments to find the Infinity enchantment. But I guess it does seem a bit redundant. To answer you'r question, I wouldn't say it's needed, just that i'd be nice to have to get ready faster. I think I should make it be able to shoot arrows longer, faster, or give the player a line sight showing the trajectory of where the arrow would fall, but I'm not sure what i'd be like after being enchanted with infinity. What do you think?
Not too sure what you mean. Isn't the cheapest and fastest way just to put arrows in your inventory, anywhere, and shoot it like that?
A slight buff to arrows shot from a quiver would be a better incentive, yes. However, I think a line of sight would be a little OP and decrease the skill needed to shoot arrows.
Mostly I'm worried about diamond armor messing up basic parkour/jumping.However, 1-2% would seem otherwise reasonable enough, even without the extra resistance to negative effects (as better armor already has extra basic damage resistance).But one last question. 1.9 damage scaling was intended to solve the problem of spamming to deal the most damage, IIRC. What problem does armor speed penalty solve? I'd just drop the likeliness of players chasing to kill newer players and make players think more tactical about what they wear like they would've have to do in real life back then (sense armor would usually not be used due to it's weight and hindered movement) and would make it easier to runaway from other players and mobs with extra protection. I've made each armor type also having their own specified resistance perk. It's not actually to fix a specified problem though. It's just to make the game a little more interesting and tactical to make it more fun and the combat aspect more worth exploring.
It would encourage the tactic of running the heck away, yeah. Running away from strong mobs is already pretty easy, but running away from strong players is hard if they decide to chase you. I feel like it'd be a little unnecessary, though, to make stronger players have to think harder about fighting after they've worked so hard to obtain strong armor.
You'd have a new tactic of hit-and-run where players wear a light armor (maybe enchanted) with a strong sword. Run in, deal a lot of damage, run away if you get bruised-up, recover, and repeat. It'd be pretty annoying, and less fun for the stronger players, especially if the stronger armored player is the one that's hurt badly and needs to run but can't.
Making PvP require more thought could possibly be a good idea, but I'm not sure that this is the right way to do it.
I think I know what you mean. A crawling player would have a crawling hitbox. Still, that would make them much harder to see and much harder to hit, especially from far away while they're facing you. Is it really necessary? It seems like an easy way to dodge arrows (go into crawl mode when an arrow comes, go back to normal once it passes), which takes out the skill of strafing and/or quickly dodging behind a two-block pillar. Although getting through smaller spaces and taking cover is the intentional use, it still takes time for you to get into the crawl position, and longer to get up. New and less experienced players would also be capable of using it to give them a better chance of hiding and defending themselves.
Oh, it's not instant? I thought crawling would work like sneaking - press a button and instantly change position, release it and instantly go back to normal.
There're already many ways to hide and defend anyway that are pretty effective. I don't think another strong way to hide is needed, and I think smaller spaces are purposefully made to be too small to go through.
You would be able to run away swimming skeletons easier, at the risk of drowning. Seems like a niche usage.The upcoming Update Aquatic apparently is adding swimming to MC, though, so I think that'll be good enough.I've made it so you'r armor type would also be a determining factor for how fast you sink or swim, up.
Stronger armor = slower movement in water?
TIL I know nothing about vines.You're likely right. However, it would still look weird to those of us ignorant folk who don't know about vine strength, which unfortunately might be a majority of the Minecraft player base. Sounds like it would be a great way to learn more about vines. I'll see what I can do to make it better.
Could be, as long as they don't go "must be a bug".
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Alrighty. So it is an alternative way to store arrows? If so, why is it needed? It's just a faster and cheeper way to hold several stacks of arrows and switch between them slightly faster without having to go through the trouble of looking for diamonds, lava, and lapis, and then waist time randomly using XP for enchantments to find the Infinity enchantment. But I guess it does seem a bit redundant. To answer you'r question, I wouldn't say it's needed, just that i'd be nice to have to get ready faster. I think I should make it be able to shoot arrows longer, faster, or give the player a line sight showing the trajectory of where the arrow would fall, but I'm not sure what i'd be like after being enchanted with infinity. What do you think?
Not too sure what you mean. Isn't the cheapest and fastest way just to put arrows in your inventory, anywhere, and shoot it like that?
A slight buff to arrows shot from a quiver would be a better incentive, yes. However, I think a line of sight would be a little OP and decrease the skill needed to shoot arrows. Good point. What if it would shoot just 15% faster, 20% straiter and would allow you to use the bow itself like a stick during close combat.
Mostly I'm worried about diamond armor messing up basic parkour/jumping.However, 1-2% would seem otherwise reasonable enough, even without the extra resistance to negative effects (as better armor already has extra basic damage resistance).But one last question. 1.9 damage scaling was intended to solve the problem of spamming to deal the most damage, IIRC. What problem does armor speed penalty solve? I'd just drop the likeliness of players chasing to kill newer players and make players think more tactical about what they wear like they would've have to do in real life back then (sense armor would usually not be used due to it's weight and hindered movement) and would make it easier to runaway from other players and mobs with extra protection. I've made each armor type also having their own specified resistance perk. It's not actually to fix a specified problem though. It's just to make the game a little more interesting and tactical to make it more fun and the combat aspect more worth exploring.
It would encourage the tactic of running the heck away, yeah. Running away from strong mobs is already pretty easy, but running away from strong players is hard if they decide to chase you. I feel like it'd be a little unnecessary, though, to make stronger players have to think harder about fighting after they've worked so hard to obtain strong armor. Personally, I do love a chance every once and a while when in close quarters, but I think it would be more fun to where what you need according to the situation like people do in real life. Each player would have their own tactics from speed, to strength, to resistance, and to stealth. When every player plays the same it tends to get old and pointless. Getting better stuff should still be rewarding, but also not take away from what would make the game more fun, specifically the tactical part of the game. I tread to make it so that players would still be willing to give up some speed for a batter boost that would fit their needs.
Leather is pretty pointless and almost useless. To make it not be a waist of other's materials I made it so that it would actually have it's own use. It would help you sink slower to get out of the water faster when you need to just enough so it's not pointless.
Iron and Chain are pretty much the same, so to make them differ, Chain would weigh less while both still change the way you swim according to how you'r prefer to balance them out.
Diamond wouldn't change anything too much so it wouldn't change people's preference for diamonds, but just enough so the weight aspect could be noticeable for more tactical reasons.
Gold would weigh the most like it would in real life, witch is actually why old divers would use it for their suits to help keep them grounded. To give Gold a little more of the love it deserves, although it would still not be the most protective, it would help players get through their underwater adventures better.
Thinking about how each armor type would react with water I had to take into account what they would be like in real life and keep them balanced from each other to help keep each one unique and well balanced according to the player's style preference. The different armors would always be able to be worn with other parts of different materials for batter preference customization according to the player's preference.
You'd have a new tactic of hit-and-run where players wear a light armor (maybe enchanted) with a strong sword. Run in, deal a lot of damage, run away if you get bruised-up, recover, and repeat. It'd be pretty annoying, and less fun for the stronger players, especially if the stronger armored player is the one that's hurt badly and needs to run but can't. I think if you start a fight, sense the seed hinderance isn't actually much, it would be more worth fighting then running away. I'd be more preferable to make a tactical retreat when you don't stand a chance against the opposition (like when all you have is leather armor and the opposition has a full suit of diamond armor, or you'r weapons just aren't a affective as you'd need them to be to survive). Players would still be able to change what they where (When their's no opposition suggested). That is where the tactical part comes into play. You'd have to make sure that you have what you need ready according to what you need to do. If you're too slow to chase, you'd need to switch from melees to ranged weapons. If you don't wan't to get hurt as much, Armor would still be better then no armor. If you need as much speed as possible and don't need protection, you can take off your armor or (most preferably) switch between armors to suit your need.
Making PvP require more thought could possibly be a good idea, but I'm not sure that this is the right way to do it. I don't think Minecraft combat will ever be perfect or better then other game's, however, as of now, this is the best I (in specific) can do to help combat be more fun and original, and without copying and pasting what other games do. (A combat that would be more self defined as Minecraft's combat system.
I think I know what you mean. A crawling player would have a crawling hitbox. Still, that would make them much harder to see and much harder to hit, especially from far away while they're facing you. Is it really necessary? It seems like an easy way to dodge arrows (go into crawl mode when an arrow comes, go back to normal once it passes), which takes out the skill of strafing and/or quickly dodging behind a two-block pillar. Although getting through smaller spaces and taking cover is the intentional use, it still takes time for you to get into the crawl position, and longer to get up. New and less experienced players would also be capable of using it to give them a better chance of hiding and defending themselves.
Oh, it's not instant? I thought crawling would work like sneaking - press a button and instantly change position, release it and instantly go back to normal. Sorry, I forgot to mentioned I edited the thread so I'd take time for you to get up like it would in real life. Sorry if you got the wrong idea. I'm still editing the thread according to the feedback I get. Right now it's 1 sec. If that's what you mean by instant, do you think it should take longer? Maybe 1&1/2 - 2 seconds?
There're already many ways to hide and defend anyway that are pretty effective. I don't think another strong way to hide is needed, and I think smaller spaces are purposefully made to be too small to go through. It was actually planed to be possible, but the according to Developers, the player's hit-box's size would have to be cut in half sense they can't make it rotate, so it ended up being a scrapped idea. I think I found a way around that in my thread though.
You would be able to run away swimming skeletons easier, at the risk of drowning. Seems like a niche usage.The upcoming Update Aquatic apparently is adding swimming to MC, though, so I think that'll be good enough. I've made it so you'r armor type would also be a determining factor for how fast you sink or swim, up.
Stronger armor = slower movement in water? Each armor type would actually enhance you'r speed a certain direction according to the armor type. Gold in spastic would help you walk under water better.
TIL I know nothing about vines.You're likely right. However, it would still look weird to those of us ignorant folk who don't know about vine strength, which unfortunately might be a majority of the Minecraft player base. Sounds like it would be a great way to learn more about vines. I'll see what I can do to make it better.
Could be, as long as they don't go "must be a bug". I don't think I'd be that hard. if the vines grow from certain trees they would break off unless they're touching more solid blocks like logs and according to armor weight, the lower parts would too, and withered/thiner looking ones would break every mine. [Typo]
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I also forgot to mention that the main reason for armor weight is to compensate for being able to where full armor and the elytra at the same time so i'd still be balanced. I also keep forgetting that this was the main reason. Sorry. I know I probably should have led with that.
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Good point. What if it would shoot just 15% faster, 20% straiter and would allow you to use the bow itself like a stick during close combat.
What would 20% straighter entail? And what do you mean by using it like a stick in melee (doesn't a stick do the same damage as fists)?
Personally, I do love a chance every once and a while when in close quarters, but I think it would be more fun to where what you need according to the situation like people do in real life. Each player would have their own tactics from speed, to strength, to resistance, and to stealth. When every player plays the same it tends to get old and pointless. Getting better stuff should still be rewarding, but also not take away from what would make the game more fun, specifically the tactical part of the game. I tread to make it so that players would still be willing to give up some speed for a batter boost that would fit their needs.
Leather is pretty pointless and almost useless. To make it not be a waist of other's materials I made it so that it would actually have it's own use. It would help you sink slower to get out of the water faster when you need to just enough so it's not pointless.
Iron and Chain are pretty much the same, so to make them differ, Chain would weigh less while both still change the way you swim according to how you'r prefer to balance them out.
Diamond wouldn't change anything too much so it wouldn't change people's preference for diamonds, but just enough so the weight aspect could be noticeable for more tactical reasons.
Gold would weigh the most like it would in real life, witch is actually why old divers would use it for their suits to help keep them grounded. To give Gold a little more of the love it deserves, although it would still not be the most protective, it would help players get through their underwater adventures better.
Thinking about how each armor type would react with water I had to take into account what they would be like in real life and keep them balanced from each other to help keep each one unique and well balanced according to the player's style preference. The different armors would always be able to be worn with other parts of different materials for batter preference customization according to the player's preference.
The problem is, everyone uses the same armors. It wouldn't seem right to force all leather armored players to have a niche effect, and for all iron armored players to have another effect, etc. In other words, making armor too unique won't work because players are also unique, so making it more general helps it be more useful for more players.
This would force many old tactics to be unusable, and instead of making it more tactical, everyone would think in the direction of the armor's specific effect.
I'd venture to say that some armor, like leather, is less useful for a good reason. It's a cheap form of basic protection that comes from an item dropped by a very common mob. It's not supposed to possibly be more useful than iron or diamond armors.
I don't think Minecraft combat will ever be perfect or better then other game's, however, as of now, this is the best I (in specific) can do to help combat be more fun and original, and without copying and pasting what other games do. (A combat that would be more self defined as Minecraft's combat system.
However, armor weight is already being used in other games different from Minecraft. MC already has unique combat styles (e.g. Ender Pearls), I don't think we necessarily need more unique ideas for the sake of originality.
Sorry, I forgot to mentioned I edited the thread so I'd take time for you to get up like it would in real life. Sorry if you got the wrong idea. I'm still editing the thread according to the feedback I get. Right now it's 1 sec. If that's what you mean by instant, do you think it should take longer? Maybe 1&1/2 - 2 seconds?
By instant, I meant the speed of sneaking, which is so fast I can't even detect how long it was.
1 second seems alright, but it doesn't seem, well, Minecraft-y enough. Crawling and getting up slowly seem more like features of other games (especially sniping/shooting games), but not Minecraft.
It was actually planed to be possible, but the according to Developers, the player's hit-box's size would have to be cut in half sense they can't make it rotate, so it ended up being a scrapped idea. I think I found a way around that in my thread though.
A way around? How?
Each armor type would actually enhance you'r speed a certain direction according to the armor type. Gold in spastic would help you walk under water better.
Armor would be more suited for particular players rather than a general audience.
I don't think I'd be that hard. if the vines grow from certain trees they would break off unless they're touching more solid blocks like logs and according to armor weight, the lower parts would too, and withered/thiner looking ones would break every mine. [Typo]
Wait, I thought all vines looked the same in thickness?
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What would 20% straighter entail? And what do you mean by using it like a stick in melee (doesn't a stick do the same damage as fists)? Shooting arrows straiter would allow them to go farther and be more accurate. I meant sticks as stated by my thread. But still be able to do the same damage it already does.
The problem is, everyone uses the same armors. It wouldn't seem right to force all leather armored players to have a niche effect, and for all iron armored players to have another effect, etc. In other words, making armor too unique won't work because players are also unique, so making it more general helps it be more useful for more players. I'm confused. If each player is unique, why would it be better to make the armors so similar? The purpose for making them defer more is so they would all have their own uses that each player would choose from according to what they want insteajust having leather that barely does anything, chain that's basically ugly iron, gold that's just not worth crafting into armor, etc... and not making any of them too OP for the game. Players will still have what they love best about the armor they use and have more options to choose from to suit their needs that differ from player to player.
This would force many old tactics to be unusable, and instead of making it more tactical, everyone would think in the direction of the armor's specific effect. It would depend on what they are doing. You'd actually be more tactical by choosing what you where to suit your needs. Divers would most likely use gold armor to venture the oceans and seas (Like they would in real life) but still wouldn't use it just as armor, for the players that just don't like swimming or having to get three water, they would most likely want to craft and use leather armor for a quick swim to their desired destination, for players that don't care about that kind of stuff and just want the best armor to attack and protect themselves with, Iron, Chain, and especially Diamond armors would still be the main armor, etc...
I actually don't know what tactics would be unusable. Can you let me know witch ones?
I'd venture to say that some armor, like leather, is less useful for a good reason. It's a cheap form of basic protection that comes from an item dropped by a very common mob. It's not supposed to possibly be more useful than iron or diamond armors. It still wouldn't be for what people would use it for. I'd make the best floats and poisons by 1-2 seconds and actually be worth being in the game, but as armor it would still be cheap and not worth using as such. Every other armor would still begetter and more rewarding choices choices like they still are. Leather Armor would still be technically just Leather Tunic/Robes and Gold would still be the second worst choice for armor.
However, armor weight is already being used in other games different from Minecraft. MC already has unique combat styles (e.g. Ender Pearls), I don't think we necessarily need more unique ideas for the sake of originality. MC combat is basically just punching and waiting to punch again. And the occasional blocking. It's unique because their is not much added to it. That's actually why Minecraft has one of the worst combat aspects. The developers wanted to make it better by making it slower to make it more tactical; however, the way they implemented their idea was done wrong. After a lot of hate from their fans they decided to add sweeping as a future. Sweeping was definitely a better idea, but it never solved the balancing issue the fans keeper complaining about. They ended unmaking it so players can still spam and with the same amount of damage while having the option to time your attacks, but it didn't do much to make their combat any better. (That's where my thread comes in) The only part of the thread that would add a hinderance would be armor weight by only -4.5% each. that would be 18-22.5% total out of the 100% and 300% maximum survival running speed.
By instant, I meant the speed of sneaking, which is so fast I can't even detect how long it was.
1 second seems alright, but it doesn't seem, well, Minecraft-y enough. Crawling and getting up slowly seem more like features of other games (especially sniping/shooting games), but not Minecraft. I actually still don't understand what people mean by Minecraft-y. I know their where people who didn't like the Redstone Update saying that update wasn't Minecraft-y, some people didn't like shields replacing swords' blocking for better protection said shields weren't Minecraft-y, people who preferred the original horse models complained that the old horse models where already Minecraft-y enough, etc... But I still don't understand what it means. It would be nice to find a solid definition I can go off of though.
A way around? How? It's in the thread. Half would be parented to the head and the other half would just be the bottom part. That way the hit-box would't have to rotate.
Each armor type would actually enhance you'r speed a certain direction according to the armor type. Gold in spastic would help you walk under water better. Yes. It's actually the only real use for a gold suit and would actually do something for the game instead of just being their. I think as the best investment for currency, it should get the credit it deserves. Sense it's not as armor it would still be the second worst armor type.
Armor would be more suited for particular players rather than a general audience. The would have more uses that everyone would have the option to use. Their still would't be more choices for everyone to choose from for all audiences. Each armor type would still be ranked by best in the same order. A whole audience is basically composed of different people, each with their own preference, and differing ways of looking at things. An audience is just used to define a common like or dislike; however, it can not define each person's varying differences. (That's where my thread also comes in)
Wait, I thought all vines looked the same in thickness? I they do. I meant that for the purpose of knowing witch vines not to use you'd have another text for them. It would technically be a new vine type.
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Ok. I'll keep that in mind. What if it was just that biomes like Deserts and Red Sahara that vines would stay the same but break if you try to swing (jump) from them and would have a withered texture, hanging vines solely attached to Birch and Spruce Trees leave would do the same & whenever you wear full gold armor, and after eating you just can't use hanging vines?
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Ugh. I'm sorry. I just typed out an entire reply, double-checked it, then accidentally deleted it. It was incredibly frustrating. I'm not even going to try and retype it.
Here, let's start again.
I prefer simplicity. You prefer innovation and customization.
Can we agree on some points?
Gold and Chain armor currently are useless because they're both much rarer and weaker than Iron armor, so that by the time you find Gold or Chain armor, you'll already have better Iron armor available to wear instead.
Minecraft's PvP could and should be improved. You actually changed my mind on this one. I thought about it and you're right. Minecraft weaponry doesn't have enough customization, especially when compared to other games. There's also the problem of how it's so predictable: if someone's at far range, ender pearl; if someone's at mid range, bow spam; if someone's at close range, sword spam. 1.9 has helped to reduce these issues, but they're definitely still there.
Okay, now for the rest.
Hanging vines should not be a new block. At most, it could be a new mechanic added to old vines, specifically the ones that're already hanging by chance.
Sticks could use their own unique ability as they look like they should do damage, but I don't think a combo attack is the best idea. It should be weaker than a wooden sword because it's still very cheap, but still better than fists in some respect.
..Which brings me to my next point. I still maintain that diamond armor should be superior to other armor in all respects. It's simple, and diamond armor is indeed the rarest. An exception could be gold armor, just like how gold tools are better than diamond tools in certain areas (though still weaker overall durability-wise).
The main feature of gold tools is that they're fast but weak. Currently, they are slightly faster than diamond tools, but because they're so easily broken, the advantage is generally negligible. Your idea to change that sounds fair enough to me, though instead of making it swing faster, it could just simply mine faster.
I don't think stuff like leather armor should have unique abilities because it'd be too complicated. I'd rather not carry an entire set of leather armor everywhere with me just because I might encounter a lake to swim across. As we will be having swimming added to the game, I don't think the ability you mentioned is necessary for now.
We will still have to acknowledge game optimization. I'm not a professional game designer, but diving the player model into 2 parts may likely have some engine drawback that we're not aware of. I reserve my judgement for now, though I say you should still consider how the inability to crawl through a small gap may very well be intentional for good reasons, such as map design and game balance.
I may add another comment if I think of anything else (especially Chain/Gold armor and sticks), but that's all I have for now. Thanks for reading.
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Ugh. I'm sorry. I just typed out an entire reply, double-checked it, then accidentally deleted it. It was incredibly frustrating. I'm not even going to try and retype it. I know exactly how you feel. But at least it's a fun subject to talk about.
Here, let's start again.
I prefer simplicity. You prefer innovation and customization. Yeah, something like that.
Can we agree on some points? I'm sure we'll find something.
Gold and Chain armor currently are useless because they're both much rarer and weaker than Iron armor, so that by the time you find Gold or Chain armor, you'll already have better Iron armor available to wear instead. Yes. And especially Leather with no protection and less practical then Gold and Chain.
Minecraft's PvP could and should be improved. You actually changed my mind on this one. I thought about it and you're right. Minecraft weaponry doesn't have enough customization, especially when compared to other games. There's also the problem of how it's so predictable: if someone's at far range, ender pearl; if someone's at mid range, bow spam; if someone's at close range, sword spam. 1.9 has helped to reduce these issues, but they're definitely still there. To be honest, I'm actually scared to know I "changed" someones mind. (0_0) That actually doesn't happen very often. But I'm glad we do agree on this though.
Okay, now for the rest.
Hanging vines should not be a new block. At most, it could be a new mechanic added to old vines, specifically the ones that're already hanging by chance. Agreed. What about if it was just that biomes like Deserts and Red Sahara that vines would stay the same but break if you try to swing (jump) from them and would have a withered texture, hanging vines solely attached to Birch and Spruce Trees leave would do the same & whenever you wear full gold armor, and after eating you just can't use hanging vines?
Sticks could use their own unique ability as they look like they should do damage, but I don't think a combo attack is the best idea. It should be weaker than a wooden sword because it's still very cheap, but still better than fists in some respect. Yes. I actually wanted to make sticks better then nothing due to it actually being better then nothing in real life. I decided to use the stick in spastic due to it actually being used as a defense weapon in real life as a Bow Staff. In reality it's not the best weapon and doesn't cause the most damage, but it's usually only used for emergencies when you have nothing else better. Most people seem to underestimate it though as a weapon at all though, which for the purpose of the game I think it'd actually be a good thing.
..Which brings me to my next point. I still maintain that diamond armor should be superior to other armor in all respects. It's simple, and diamond armor is indeed the rarest. An exception could be gold armor, just like how gold tools are better than diamond tools in certain areas (though still weaker overall durability-wise). We definitely agree that gold as it is bad armor that it should still have something better to offer then diamond in certain arias without being better armor and that Diamonds should be the best armor type in the game. So diamond armor should most definitely still be the best armor and most obviously even better then no armor. Now, do we also agree that Iron and Chain should still be better armor then Gold, worse then Diamond, and Chain better then Iron at least 50-50 in their own arias?
The main feature of gold tools is that they're fast but weak. Currently, they are slightly faster than diamond tools, but because they're so easily broken, the advantage is generally negligible. Your idea to change that sounds fair enough to me, though instead of making it swing faster, it could just simply mine faster. I was actually talking about the gold weapons (he axe and swords of the gold variants). Pickaxes and shovels are already faster tools. Those 2 are actually specifically for players who are in a hurry (Usually making several to make up for horrible density) to break blocks faster. Bur the weapons are still, for the most part, pointless in-game items.
I don't think stuff like leather armor should have unique abilities because it'd be too complicated. I'd rather not carry an entire set of leather armor everywhere with me just because I might encounter a lake to swim across. As we will be having swimming added to the game, I don't think the ability you mentioned is necessary for now. It's actually just to swim out faster (Mostly just for Divers). It's not something people would want to carry around unless they actually deed it. It would be more considerable instead of pointless though, despite it still not being better then gold.
We will still have to acknowledge game optimization. I'm not a professional game designer, but diving the player model into 2 parts may likely have some engine drawback that we're not aware of. I reserve my judgement for now, though I say you should still consider how the inability to crawl through a small gap may very well be intentional for good reasons, such as map design and game balance. I actually don't expect the devision to not cause problems throughout the snapshots, but it's the only other possible to implement crawling from what I could think off without having to rotate the hit-box. The developers actually already planed to have it implemented VMC. I don't think any one map would be made for every update, especially after 1.9. and the upcoming 1.13., but I think, due to how commands are being changed, that they could be used to disable these kind of stuff. servers shouldn't be affecter at all until they're rebooted, but it would still be more worth it just to use mods for the purpose of their servers' worlds.
I may add another comment if I think of anything else (especially Chain/Gold armor and sticks), but that's all I have for now. Thanks for reading. I actually love to read your replies. Please don't withhold any judgment that could help me improve on the thread. I need all the information I can get.
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I know exactly how you feel. But at least it's a fun subject to talk about.
Yes. And especially Leather with no protection and less practical then Gold and Chain.
Well, ah, about that last part...
Leather armor is used as the most basic, cheapest kind. It is the first kind people wear. Even if all you have is fists, you can eventually punch enough cows to get yourself some armor. While it isn't the best, it's certainly better than nothing.
To be honest, I'm actually scared to know I "changed" someones mind. (0_0) That actually doesn't happen very often. But I'm glad we do agree on this though.
Yeah, I try my best to keep my mind open (sorry if these verbs/adjectives are giving you a headache ;]). Persuading someone without being open to persuasion yourself is a futile act (in my opinion, of course).
Agreed. What about if it was just that biomes like Deserts and Red Sahara that vines would stay the same but break if you try to swing (jump) from them and would have a withered texture, hanging vines solely attached to Birch and Spruce Trees leave would do the same & whenever you wear full gold armor, and after eating you just can't use hanging vines?
I agree with the biome-specific vine mechanics. Not sure why you chose Birch and Spruce trees specifically. Don't think that armor and food intake should affect this, even if it might be slightly more realistic, and especially not if armor weight isn't added.
Yes. I actually wanted to make sticks better then nothing due to it actually being better then nothing in real life. I decided to use the stick in spastic due to it actually being used as a defense weapon in real life as a Bow Staff. In reality it's not the best weapon and doesn't cause the most damage, but it's usually only used for emergencies when you have nothing else better. Most people seem to underestimate it though as a weapon at all though, which for the purpose of the game I think it'd actually be a good thing.
What do you mean by "use the stick in spastic"? I thought that bolded word was a typo the first time (any luck on those glasses?).
We definitely agree that gold as it is bad armor that it should still have something better to offer then diamond in certain arias without being better armor and that Diamonds should be the best armor type in the game. So diamond armor should most definitely still be the best armor and most obviously even better then no armor. Now, do we also agree that Iron and Chain should still be better armor then Gold, worse then Diamond, and Chain better then Iron at least 50-50 in their own arias?
Iron and Chain should be better than Gold and worse than Diamond, yes.
Do you mean that Chain and Iron would be somewhat equal overall but different in specifics? I'm thinking that Iron could still have more "defense points", but Chain could have some unique ability because of its rareness. What do you think?
I was actually talking about the gold weapons (he axe and swords of the gold variants). Pickaxes and shovels are already faster tools. Those 2 are actually specifically for players who are in a hurry (Usually making several to make up for horrible density) to break blocks faster. Bur the weapons are still, for the most part, pointless in-game items.
Ah. I still think that gold weapons are inferior overall, because it only has slightly faster mining speed for certain blocks, but much slower speed for other blocks, added onto, of course, the lack of durability.
Faster weapons could work. It'd work side-by-side with the bad durability - you'd deal a lot of damage very fast until your weapon broke (which would also be very fast). Though now I'm wondering if double the attack speed might be a little overpowered in PvP...
It's actually just to swim out faster (Mostly just for Divers). It's not something people would want to carry around unless they actually deed it. It would be more considerable instead of pointless though, despite it still not being better then gold.
Upcoming swimming feature does this: "When sprinting while swimming, the player will now go much faster than normal swimming, and rapidly dive down to the lowest point in the body of water."
Don't really need the new leather armor anymore.
I actually don't expect the devision to not cause problems throughout the snapshots, but it's the only other possible to implement crawling from what I could think off without having to rotate the hit-box. The developers actually already planed to have it implemented VMC. I don't think any one map would be made for every update, especially after 1.9. and the upcoming 1.13., but I think, due to how commands are being changed, that they could be used to disable these kind of stuff. servers shouldn't be affecter at all until they're rebooted, but it would still be more worth it just to use mods for the purpose of their servers' worlds.
Well, to be honest, I actually only have problems with crawling in custom maps and servers. In vanilla MC, crawling seems like a fine addition. If crawling can be disabled with commands, I'd be fine with adding it in-game. By the way, I was meaning to ask you: do you have a link to the devs' comments on scrapped crawling? I tried looking but couldn't find it with what I searched.
I actually love to read your replies. Please don't withhold any judgment that could help me improve on the thread. I need all the information I can get.
Aw, thanks.
I think the thread is fine, of course apart from the small typos here and there. I actually like that you take time to respond to what I say.
Although, can I ask you one question? What's that 45/55% controversy you brought up in the OP about?
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We should add a riding damage buff. Sword fighting has always in history been enhanced by the power of horse-riding. I believe this would be a good addition to combat that we can use in Minecraft.
We should add a riding damage buff. Sword fighting has always in history been enhanced by the power of horse-riding. I believe this would be a good addition to combat that we can use in Minecraft.
I like the idea. I actually agree, it really does seem to be a waisted opportunity.
I'll see what I can do.
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I actually really like the weight idea. It makes sense and if you think about it, 20% slower isn't that much.
Glad you like it.
Any thoughts for improvements?
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I actually still don't know most of my crafting recipes, apart from the basic ones. :/ I know how you feel. I still can't craft a shield without messing up every time. I thought I just forget everything.
It's nice to know I'm not the only one having trouble with remembering things though... Not that I want others to forget things as often as me or anything.
For quivers, I think arrows used like we do right now are simple and easy, and I like that. Craft an arrow, shoot it.Of course, just now I realized that I might be misunderstanding you, so if you're just adding an alternative way to store arrows... oops, sorry! Don't be. I think I just need to make it more clear for the thread. Every misunderstanding that's brought up is always something I'll be great-full for to improve the thread accordingly.
Changing default movement speed would also change up parkour. I'm not an avid traceur, but I think it would still be a little messy.I still don't think better armor should necessitate slower speed. If we're going to say that a diamond armored player has an unfair advantage over a leather armored player, why don't we also modify diamond swords to have more disadvantages? That's a good point. I want the best armors to still be rewarding but still make you think more about what you need and for leather armor to actually be of use for the purpose of the game. To make people think more tactical.
What about this: the better the armor, the more resistant it is to negative effects (Leather not included), and have the armor moment hinderance back down by 1-2%.
Shouldn't be too difficult. Arrow firing speed is only so limited. Even just staying to crawling could make your hitbox so much harder to hit from far away. This would become the new meta for bridging. ... Challenge for beginners? I'm not sure if I mentioned this in the thread, but , the hit-box would go along with the body's angle as appose to shrinking or being the same for every stance (one parented to the head, the other parented to the common placement of the legs). This is for more tactical proposes that people would have to learn the strengths and weaknesses of as they play the game. The main purpose is to help players take better cover from the opposition though; however, although they might have better cover, it would also be at the cost of their speed (Perfect way to either take cover or get surprise attacked from).
It makes you either stay still or sink down, I don't see why this helps you retreat. When you'r trying to get away from mobs, the faster you sink, the faster you can run away from the other mobs that'll swim instead of sink. It'd also make is easier to dodge projectiles and perform sneak attacks on the opposition.
Right, there are vines like that. Maybe just remove hanging vines altogether, because a hanging vine shouldn't support anyone's weight. In real life they usually can. I personally got to do so in Puerto Rico every time I went over their. Their's actually about a 20-15% chance a good looking vine would not hold on tight enough to hold at least 150 pounds from what I could tell. Also depending on the strength of the specific vine and the tree type (branch resistance). But normally you can (just not as far a Tarzan).
Like soccer? Yeah. Or like baseball, fencing (self liberties considered), tag, or paintball, but more like paintball.
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edit: oh NOO i broke the formatting
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Alrighty. So it is an alternative way to store arrows? If so, why is it needed? It's just a faster and cheeper way to hold several stacks of arrows and switch between them slightly faster without having to go through the trouble of looking for diamonds, lava, and lapis, and then waist time randomly using XP for enchantments to find the Infinity enchantment. But I guess it does seem a bit redundant. To answer you'r question, I wouldn't say it's needed, just that i'd be nice to have to get ready faster. I think I should make it be able to shoot arrows longer, faster, or give the player a line sight showing the trajectory of where the arrow would fall, but I'm not sure what i'd be like after being enchanted with infinity. What do you think?
Mostly I'm worried about diamond armor messing up basic parkour/jumping.However, 1-2% would seem otherwise reasonable enough, even without the extra resistance to negative effects (as better armor already has extra basic damage resistance).But one last question. 1.9 damage scaling was intended to solve the problem of spamming to deal the most damage, IIRC. What problem does armor speed penalty solve? I'd just drop the likeliness of players chasing to kill newer players and make players think more tactical about what they wear like they would've have to do in real life back then (sense armor would usually not be used due to it's weight and hindered movement) and would make it easier to runaway from other players and mobs with extra protection. I've made each armor type also having their own specified resistance perk. It's not actually to fix a specified problem though. It's just to make the game a little more interesting and tactical to make it more fun and the combat aspect more worth exploring.
I think I know what you mean. A crawling player would have a crawling hitbox. Still, that would make them much harder to see and much harder to hit, especially from far away while they're facing you. Is it really necessary? It seems like an easy way to dodge arrows (go into crawl mode when an arrow comes, go back to normal once it passes), which takes out the skill of strafing and/or quickly dodging behind a two-block pillar. Although getting through smaller spaces and taking cover is the intentional use, it still takes time for you to get into the crawl position, and longer to get up. New and less experienced players would also be capable of using it to give them a better chance of hiding and defending themselves.
You would be able to run away swimming skeletons easier, at the risk of drowning. Seems like a niche usage.The upcoming Update Aquatic apparently is adding swimming to MC, though, so I think that'll be good enough. I've made it so you'r armor type would also be a determining factor for how fast you sink or swim, up.
TIL I know nothing about vines.You're likely right. However, it would still look weird to those of us ignorant folk who don't know about vine strength, which unfortunately might be a majority of the Minecraft player base. Sounds like it would be a great way to learn more about vines. I'll see what I can do to make it better.
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Alrighty. So it is an alternative way to store arrows? If so, why is it needed? It's just a faster and cheeper way to hold several stacks of arrows and switch between them slightly faster without having to go through the trouble of looking for diamonds, lava, and lapis, and then waist time randomly using XP for enchantments to find the Infinity enchantment. But I guess it does seem a bit redundant. To answer you'r question, I wouldn't say it's needed, just that i'd be nice to have to get ready faster. I think I should make it be able to shoot arrows longer, faster, or give the player a line sight showing the trajectory of where the arrow would fall, but I'm not sure what i'd be like after being enchanted with infinity. What do you think?
Not too sure what you mean. Isn't the cheapest and fastest way just to put arrows in your inventory, anywhere, and shoot it like that?
A slight buff to arrows shot from a quiver would be a better incentive, yes. However, I think a line of sight would be a little OP and decrease the skill needed to shoot arrows. Good point. What if it would shoot just 15% faster, 20% straiter and would allow you to use the bow itself like a stick during close combat.
Mostly I'm worried about diamond armor messing up basic parkour/jumping.However, 1-2% would seem otherwise reasonable enough, even without the extra resistance to negative effects (as better armor already has extra basic damage resistance).But one last question. 1.9 damage scaling was intended to solve the problem of spamming to deal the most damage, IIRC. What problem does armor speed penalty solve? I'd just drop the likeliness of players chasing to kill newer players and make players think more tactical about what they wear like they would've have to do in real life back then (sense armor would usually not be used due to it's weight and hindered movement) and would make it easier to runaway from other players and mobs with extra protection. I've made each armor type also having their own specified resistance perk. It's not actually to fix a specified problem though. It's just to make the game a little more interesting and tactical to make it more fun and the combat aspect more worth exploring.
It would encourage the tactic of running the heck away, yeah. Running away from strong mobs is already pretty easy, but running away from strong players is hard if they decide to chase you. I feel like it'd be a little unnecessary, though, to make stronger players have to think harder about fighting after they've worked so hard to obtain strong armor. Personally, I do love a chance every once and a while when in close quarters, but I think it would be more fun to where what you need according to the situation like people do in real life. Each player would have their own tactics from speed, to strength, to resistance, and to stealth. When every player plays the same it tends to get old and pointless. Getting better stuff should still be rewarding, but also not take away from what would make the game more fun, specifically the tactical part of the game. I tread to make it so that players would still be willing to give up some speed for a batter boost that would fit their needs.
Leather is pretty pointless and almost useless. To make it not be a waist of other's materials I made it so that it would actually have it's own use. It would help you sink slower to get out of the water faster when you need to just enough so it's not pointless.
Iron and Chain are pretty much the same, so to make them differ, Chain would weigh less while both still change the way you swim according to how you'r prefer to balance them out.
Diamond wouldn't change anything too much so it wouldn't change people's preference for diamonds, but just enough so the weight aspect could be noticeable for more tactical reasons.
Gold would weigh the most like it would in real life, witch is actually why old divers would use it for their suits to help keep them grounded. To give Gold a little more of the love it deserves, although it would still not be the most protective, it would help players get through their underwater adventures better.
Thinking about how each armor type would react with water I had to take into account what they would be like in real life and keep them balanced from each other to help keep each one unique and well balanced according to the player's style preference. The different armors would always be able to be worn with other parts of different materials for batter preference customization according to the player's preference.
You'd have a new tactic of hit-and-run where players wear a light armor (maybe enchanted) with a strong sword. Run in, deal a lot of damage, run away if you get bruised-up, recover, and repeat. It'd be pretty annoying, and less fun for the stronger players, especially if the stronger armored player is the one that's hurt badly and needs to run but can't. I think if you start a fight, sense the seed hinderance isn't actually much, it would be more worth fighting then running away. I'd be more preferable to make a tactical retreat when you don't stand a chance against the opposition (like when all you have is leather armor and the opposition has a full suit of diamond armor, or you'r weapons just aren't a affective as you'd need them to be to survive). Players would still be able to change what they where (When their's no opposition suggested). That is where the tactical part comes into play. You'd have to make sure that you have what you need ready according to what you need to do. If you're too slow to chase, you'd need to switch from melees to ranged weapons. If you don't wan't to get hurt as much, Armor would still be better then no armor. If you need as much speed as possible and don't need protection, you can take off your armor or (most preferably) switch between armors to suit your need.
Making PvP require more thought could possibly be a good idea, but I'm not sure that this is the right way to do it. I don't think Minecraft combat will ever be perfect or better then other game's, however, as of now, this is the best I (in specific) can do to help combat be more fun and original, and without copying and pasting what other games do. (A combat that would be more self defined as Minecraft's combat system.
I think I know what you mean. A crawling player would have a crawling hitbox. Still, that would make them much harder to see and much harder to hit, especially from far away while they're facing you. Is it really necessary? It seems like an easy way to dodge arrows (go into crawl mode when an arrow comes, go back to normal once it passes), which takes out the skill of strafing and/or quickly dodging behind a two-block pillar. Although getting through smaller spaces and taking cover is the intentional use, it still takes time for you to get into the crawl position, and longer to get up. New and less experienced players would also be capable of using it to give them a better chance of hiding and defending themselves.
Oh, it's not instant? I thought crawling would work like sneaking - press a button and instantly change position, release it and instantly go back to normal. Sorry, I forgot to mentioned I edited the thread so I'd take time for you to get up like it would in real life. Sorry if you got the wrong idea. I'm still editing the thread according to the feedback I get. Right now it's 1 sec. If that's what you mean by instant, do you think it should take longer? Maybe 1&1/2 - 2 seconds?
There're already many ways to hide and defend anyway that are pretty effective. I don't think another strong way to hide is needed, and I think smaller spaces are purposefully made to be too small to go through. It was actually planed to be possible, but the according to Developers, the player's hit-box's size would have to be cut in half sense they can't make it rotate, so it ended up being a scrapped idea. I think I found a way around that in my thread though.
You would be able to run away swimming skeletons easier, at the risk of drowning. Seems like a niche usage.The upcoming Update Aquatic apparently is adding swimming to MC, though, so I think that'll be good enough. I've made it so you'r armor type would also be a determining factor for how fast you sink or swim, up.
Stronger armor = slower movement in water? Each armor type would actually enhance you'r speed a certain direction according to the armor type. Gold in spastic would help you walk under water better.
TIL I know nothing about vines.You're likely right. However, it would still look weird to those of us ignorant folk who don't know about vine strength, which unfortunately might be a majority of the Minecraft player base. Sounds like it would be a great way to learn more about vines. I'll see what I can do to make it better.
Could be, as long as they don't go "must be a bug". I don't think I'd be that hard. if the vines grow from certain trees they would break off unless they're touching more solid blocks like logs and according to armor weight, the lower parts would too, and withered/thiner looking ones would break every mine. [Typo]
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I also forgot to mention that the main reason for armor weight is to compensate for being able to where full armor and the elytra at the same time so i'd still be balanced. I also keep forgetting that this was the main reason. Sorry. I know I probably should have led with that.
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What would 20% straighter entail? And what do you mean by using it like a stick in melee (doesn't a stick do the same damage as fists)? Shooting arrows straiter would allow them to go farther and be more accurate. I meant sticks as stated by my thread. But still be able to do the same damage it already does.
The problem is, everyone uses the same armors. It wouldn't seem right to force all leather armored players to have a niche effect, and for all iron armored players to have another effect, etc. In other words, making armor too unique won't work because players are also unique, so making it more general helps it be more useful for more players. I'm confused. If each player is unique, why would it be better to make the armors so similar? The purpose for making them defer more is so they would all have their own uses that each player would choose from according to what they want insteajust having leather that barely does anything, chain that's basically ugly iron, gold that's just not worth crafting into armor, etc... and not making any of them too OP for the game. Players will still have what they love best about the armor they use and have more options to choose from to suit their needs that differ from player to player.
This would force many old tactics to be unusable, and instead of making it more tactical, everyone would think in the direction of the armor's specific effect. It would depend on what they are doing. You'd actually be more tactical by choosing what you where to suit your needs. Divers would most likely use gold armor to venture the oceans and seas (Like they would in real life) but still wouldn't use it just as armor, for the players that just don't like swimming or having to get three water, they would most likely want to craft and use leather armor for a quick swim to their desired destination, for players that don't care about that kind of stuff and just want the best armor to attack and protect themselves with, Iron, Chain, and especially Diamond armors would still be the main armor, etc...
I actually don't know what tactics would be unusable. Can you let me know witch ones?
I'd venture to say that some armor, like leather, is less useful for a good reason. It's a cheap form of basic protection that comes from an item dropped by a very common mob. It's not supposed to possibly be more useful than iron or diamond armors. It still wouldn't be for what people would use it for. I'd make the best floats and poisons by 1-2 seconds and actually be worth being in the game, but as armor it would still be cheap and not worth using as such. Every other armor would still begetter and more rewarding choices choices like they still are. Leather Armor would still be technically just Leather Tunic/Robes and Gold would still be the second worst choice for armor.
However, armor weight is already being used in other games different from Minecraft. MC already has unique combat styles (e.g. Ender Pearls), I don't think we necessarily need more unique ideas for the sake of originality. MC combat is basically just punching and waiting to punch again. And the occasional blocking. It's unique because their is not much added to it. That's actually why Minecraft has one of the worst combat aspects. The developers wanted to make it better by making it slower to make it more tactical; however, the way they implemented their idea was done wrong. After a lot of hate from their fans they decided to add sweeping as a future. Sweeping was definitely a better idea, but it never solved the balancing issue the fans keeper complaining about. They ended unmaking it so players can still spam and with the same amount of damage while having the option to time your attacks, but it didn't do much to make their combat any better. (That's where my thread comes in) The only part of the thread that would add a hinderance would be armor weight by only -4.5% each. that would be 18-22.5% total out of the 100% and 300% maximum survival running speed.
By instant, I meant the speed of sneaking, which is so fast I can't even detect how long it was.
1 second seems alright, but it doesn't seem, well, Minecraft-y enough. Crawling and getting up slowly seem more like features of other games (especially sniping/shooting games), but not Minecraft. I actually still don't understand what people mean by Minecraft-y. I know their where people who didn't like the Redstone Update saying that update wasn't Minecraft-y, some people didn't like shields replacing swords' blocking for better protection said shields weren't Minecraft-y, people who preferred the original horse models complained that the old horse models where already Minecraft-y enough, etc... But I still don't understand what it means. It would be nice to find a solid definition I can go off of though.
A way around? How? It's in the thread. Half would be parented to the head and the other half would just be the bottom part. That way the hit-box would't have to rotate.
Each armor type would actually enhance you'r speed a certain direction according to the armor type. Gold in spastic would help you walk under water better. Yes. It's actually the only real use for a gold suit and would actually do something for the game instead of just being their. I think as the best investment for currency, it should get the credit it deserves. Sense it's not as armor it would still be the second worst armor type.
Armor would be more suited for particular players rather than a general audience. The would have more uses that everyone would have the option to use. Their still would't be more choices for everyone to choose from for all audiences. Each armor type would still be ranked by best in the same order. A whole audience is basically composed of different people, each with their own preference, and differing ways of looking at things. An audience is just used to define a common like or dislike; however, it can not define each person's varying differences. (That's where my thread also comes in)
Wait, I thought all vines looked the same in thickness? I they do. I meant that for the purpose of knowing witch vines not to use you'd have another text for them. It would technically be a new vine type.
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Ok, sorry to get in the middle of your conversation, but nothing like a new type of vine. Just no. That is literally pointless.
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Ok. I'll keep that in mind. What if it was just that biomes like Deserts and Red Sahara that vines would stay the same but break if you try to swing (jump) from them and would have a withered texture, hanging vines solely attached to Birch and Spruce Trees leave would do the same & whenever you wear full gold armor, and after eating you just can't use hanging vines?
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Ugh. I'm sorry. I just typed out an entire reply, double-checked it, then accidentally deleted it. It was incredibly frustrating. I'm not even going to try and retype it.
Here, let's start again.
I prefer simplicity. You prefer innovation and customization.
Can we agree on some points?
Gold and Chain armor currently are useless because they're both much rarer and weaker than Iron armor, so that by the time you find Gold or Chain armor, you'll already have better Iron armor available to wear instead.
Minecraft's PvP could and should be improved. You actually changed my mind on this one. I thought about it and you're right. Minecraft weaponry doesn't have enough customization, especially when compared to other games. There's also the problem of how it's so predictable: if someone's at far range, ender pearl; if someone's at mid range, bow spam; if someone's at close range, sword spam. 1.9 has helped to reduce these issues, but they're definitely still there.
Okay, now for the rest.
Hanging vines should not be a new block. At most, it could be a new mechanic added to old vines, specifically the ones that're already hanging by chance.
Sticks could use their own unique ability as they look like they should do damage, but I don't think a combo attack is the best idea. It should be weaker than a wooden sword because it's still very cheap, but still better than fists in some respect.
..Which brings me to my next point. I still maintain that diamond armor should be superior to other armor in all respects. It's simple, and diamond armor is indeed the rarest. An exception could be gold armor, just like how gold tools are better than diamond tools in certain areas (though still weaker overall durability-wise).
The main feature of gold tools is that they're fast but weak. Currently, they are slightly faster than diamond tools, but because they're so easily broken, the advantage is generally negligible. Your idea to change that sounds fair enough to me, though instead of making it swing faster, it could just simply mine faster.
I don't think stuff like leather armor should have unique abilities because it'd be too complicated. I'd rather not carry an entire set of leather armor everywhere with me just because I might encounter a lake to swim across. As we will be having swimming added to the game, I don't think the ability you mentioned is necessary for now.
We will still have to acknowledge game optimization. I'm not a professional game designer, but diving the player model into 2 parts may likely have some engine drawback that we're not aware of. I reserve my judgement for now, though I say you should still consider how the inability to crawl through a small gap may very well be intentional for good reasons, such as map design and game balance.
I may add another comment if I think of anything else (especially Chain/Gold armor and sticks), but that's all I have for now. Thanks for reading.
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Ugh. I'm sorry. I just typed out an entire reply, double-checked it, then accidentally deleted it. It was incredibly frustrating. I'm not even going to try and retype it. I know exactly how you feel. But at least it's a fun subject to talk about.
Here, let's start again.
I prefer simplicity. You prefer innovation and customization. Yeah, something like that.
Can we agree on some points? I'm sure we'll find something.
Gold and Chain armor currently are useless because they're both much rarer and weaker than Iron armor, so that by the time you find Gold or Chain armor, you'll already have better Iron armor available to wear instead. Yes. And especially Leather with no protection and less practical then Gold and Chain.
Minecraft's PvP could and should be improved. You actually changed my mind on this one. I thought about it and you're right. Minecraft weaponry doesn't have enough customization, especially when compared to other games. There's also the problem of how it's so predictable: if someone's at far range, ender pearl; if someone's at mid range, bow spam; if someone's at close range, sword spam. 1.9 has helped to reduce these issues, but they're definitely still there. To be honest, I'm actually scared to know I "changed" someones mind. (0_0) That actually doesn't happen very often. But I'm glad we do agree on this though.
Okay, now for the rest.
Hanging vines should not be a new block. At most, it could be a new mechanic added to old vines, specifically the ones that're already hanging by chance. Agreed. What about if it was just that biomes like Deserts and Red Sahara that vines would stay the same but break if you try to swing (jump) from them and would have a withered texture, hanging vines solely attached to Birch and Spruce Trees leave would do the same & whenever you wear full gold armor, and after eating you just can't use hanging vines?
Sticks could use their own unique ability as they look like they should do damage, but I don't think a combo attack is the best idea. It should be weaker than a wooden sword because it's still very cheap, but still better than fists in some respect. Yes. I actually wanted to make sticks better then nothing due to it actually being better then nothing in real life. I decided to use the stick in spastic due to it actually being used as a defense weapon in real life as a Bow Staff. In reality it's not the best weapon and doesn't cause the most damage, but it's usually only used for emergencies when you have nothing else better. Most people seem to underestimate it though as a weapon at all though, which for the purpose of the game I think it'd actually be a good thing.
..Which brings me to my next point. I still maintain that diamond armor should be superior to other armor in all respects. It's simple, and diamond armor is indeed the rarest. An exception could be gold armor, just like how gold tools are better than diamond tools in certain areas (though still weaker overall durability-wise). We definitely agree that gold as it is bad armor that it should still have something better to offer then diamond in certain arias without being better armor and that Diamonds should be the best armor type in the game. So diamond armor should most definitely still be the best armor and most obviously even better then no armor. Now, do we also agree that Iron and Chain should still be better armor then Gold, worse then Diamond, and Chain better then Iron at least 50-50 in their own arias?
The main feature of gold tools is that they're fast but weak. Currently, they are slightly faster than diamond tools, but because they're so easily broken, the advantage is generally negligible. Your idea to change that sounds fair enough to me, though instead of making it swing faster, it could just simply mine faster. I was actually talking about the gold weapons (he axe and swords of the gold variants). Pickaxes and shovels are already faster tools. Those 2 are actually specifically for players who are in a hurry (Usually making several to make up for horrible density) to break blocks faster. Bur the weapons are still, for the most part, pointless in-game items.
I don't think stuff like leather armor should have unique abilities because it'd be too complicated. I'd rather not carry an entire set of leather armor everywhere with me just because I might encounter a lake to swim across. As we will be having swimming added to the game, I don't think the ability you mentioned is necessary for now. It's actually just to swim out faster (Mostly just for Divers). It's not something people would want to carry around unless they actually deed it. It would be more considerable instead of pointless though, despite it still not being better then gold.
We will still have to acknowledge game optimization. I'm not a professional game designer, but diving the player model into 2 parts may likely have some engine drawback that we're not aware of. I reserve my judgement for now, though I say you should still consider how the inability to crawl through a small gap may very well be intentional for good reasons, such as map design and game balance. I actually don't expect the devision to not cause problems throughout the snapshots, but it's the only other possible to implement crawling from what I could think off without having to rotate the hit-box. The developers actually already planed to have it implemented VMC. I don't think any one map would be made for every update, especially after 1.9. and the upcoming 1.13., but I think, due to how commands are being changed, that they could be used to disable these kind of stuff. servers shouldn't be affecter at all until they're rebooted, but it would still be more worth it just to use mods for the purpose of their servers' worlds.
I may add another comment if I think of anything else (especially Chain/Gold armor and sticks), but that's all I have for now. Thanks for reading. I actually love to read your replies. Please don't withhold any judgment that could help me improve on the thread. I need all the information I can get.
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We should add a riding damage buff. Sword fighting has always in history been enhanced by the power of horse-riding. I believe this would be a good addition to combat that we can use in Minecraft.
I actually really like the weight idea. It makes sense and if you think about it, 20% slower isn't that much.
I like the idea. I actually agree, it really does seem to be a waisted opportunity.
I'll see what I can do.
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Glad you like it.
Any thoughts for improvements?
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